donnamaybe Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Was it you who likes to take off with a male friend to go sing kareoke? Kareoke? ... (I guess we'll have to call it a draw .. ha) .. I wasn't aware there was anger or hatred involved in having good times out with friends. Hmmm..... Sounds like someone doesn't know how to play well with others perhaps?
donnamaybe Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 ---------------------- Posters will have to decide for themselves if the comments were out of line in describing a young man who obviously already feels beaten down... No need. You and Green have already decided that for them. And NOW you're even going to the great lengths of deciding how the kid feels! More presumptuousness...?
donnamaybe Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 fwiw, I think you seem to project a 'feeling' onto people that isn't there. I can moan all day about my daughter being lazy and not working harder and passing her college test, but it in no way makes me hate her. Or even 'who she is.' My comments would be more a feeling of frustration than hate. Or disappointment. But none of that will ever guide me to even approach the feeling of hatred. People usually are able to find a balance somewhere, that keeps them from going around in a balled up feeling of hatred or anger. Yes - most people ARE usually able. You and I, for example. I have no reason to "hate" a person I don't even know. I can find their behavior unacceptable and even dislike said behavior. Sure doesn't rise to the level of hatred. linwood, do you speak to the ex-dad? Can you talk to him about the issue? Maybe get him on board with what you're trying to do?THIS is a great idea!
turnera Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 THIS is a great idea! When our friends' son came to stay with us last week, I called them and told them that, since I had told him he could stay in an emergency, he was welcome to come over. However, I let THEM know that I was in no way going to make it more pleasant for him than his own home. He would take half of my daughter's chores (she was thrilled, natch), he would eat what I cooked, and he would get off the computer when I told him to. The last day, he tried to take off for McDonalds, to feed himself, and I stopped him and told him we eat together as a family, and he had to go to the grocery store and buy food for all of us - with his last $10, since his parents were coming over. By the time his parents came over for 'the talk', he was pretty steamed. I had told him to write a gripe list of what issues he had with his parents that was so bad he had to run away (at 19); Well, he pulled up the list, but couldn't read them out loud, now that he was facing them; so I offered to read for him, as mediator. lol, there were more gripes about ME than there were about THEM! He said that he never claimed that he wanted to stay with us (though he emptied out his whole room and brought it with him), but was just here for the weekend. The grass was definitely not greener.
donnamaybe Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 When our friends' son came to stay with us last week, I called them and told them that, since I had told him he could stay in an emergency, he was welcome to come over. However, I let THEM know that I was in no way going to make it more pleasant for him than his own home. He would take half of my daughter's chores (she was thrilled, natch), he would eat what I cooked, and he would get off the computer when I told him to. The last day, he tried to take off for McDonalds, to feed himself, and I stopped him and told him we eat together as a family, and he had to go to the grocery store and buy food for all of us - with his last $10, since his parents were coming over. By the time his parents came over for 'the talk', he was pretty steamed. I had told him to write a gripe list of what issues he had with his parents that was so bad he had to run away (at 19); Well, he pulled up the list, but couldn't read them out loud, now that he was facing them; so I offered to read for him, as mediator. lol, there were more gripes about ME than there were about THEM! He said that he never claimed that he wanted to stay with us (though he emptied out his whole room and brought it with him), but was just here for the weekend. The grass was definitely not greener. You are one VERY smart, albeit manipulative, person. Sometimes, as parents, those qualities have to come into play. We have to outsmart our kids, or even someone else's. As long as it's for the greater good, there's no problem.
Eve Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 When our friends' son came to stay with us last week, I called them and told them that, since I had told him he could stay in an emergency, he was welcome to come over. However, I let THEM know that I was in no way going to make it more pleasant for him than his own home. He would take half of my daughter's chores (she was thrilled, natch), he would eat what I cooked, and he would get off the computer when I told him to. The last day, he tried to take off for McDonalds, to feed himself, and I stopped him and told him we eat together as a family, and he had to go to the grocery store and buy food for all of us - with his last $10, since his parents were coming over. By the time his parents came over for 'the talk', he was pretty steamed. I had told him to write a gripe list of what issues he had with his parents that was so bad he had to run away (at 19); Well, he pulled up the list, but couldn't read them out loud, now that he was facing them; so I offered to read for him, as mediator. lol, there were more gripes about ME than there were about THEM! He said that he never claimed that he wanted to stay with us (though he emptied out his whole room and brought it with him), but was just here for the weekend. The grass was definitely not greener. Nothing much else can be added to this. Yes, we have to 'outwit' our kids. They assume that they are smarter than us but criminology and the correlation with poverty outstrips us all. Manipulative behaviour must be called for what it is in ALL situations. Remoulding is a rarity once the damage is done. So prevention is better than cure. We do not own our children and should not be permissive when it comes to character traits that can pollute our society. This goes beyond providing shelter and educational opportunities, its about character, dignity, self respect, honesty... virtues that have to be lived to be understood. I will support my children but the deal is and always was that they must make a life for themselves that is good. Predatory behaviours develop early and there is no way I will permit my children to behave as such. No way! Faced with hard options my girl adjusted her behaviour and is now on track.. and I am proud of her. Take care, Eve xx
sally4sara Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 About a month ago, it occurred to my 12 year old son that he would not be able to earn money through his neighborhood job while away visiting his father's family. Can't walk dogs three times a week here all the way from GA. The money he earns is mostly used to pay for the data plan on his phone. Concerned that he would not be able to pay for his bill for two months, he came to me and asked if it was okay if he could earn more to cover the bill for the time he would be gone. I asked what ideas he had in mind. He said that he could do some grocery fetching for me and other people in the neighborhood with one of our utility carts as the store is only a block and a half away. His other idea was for a younger kid he knew from when he was at elementary school that needed help with math and had interest in astronomy. Since it is the end of the school year, his school work levels have dropped off giving him more time for these opportunities so I gave him permission. He paid for the two months ($70) he will be gone last night. He blows me away! And he learned that by conducting himself in a good natured manner brings more opportunities his way. If he ran the neighborhood acting like a little brat, no one would have trusted him to take on these tasks. Linwood has not asked anything of his step-son that will cause the boy harm; how is he being hateful?
DaisyLeigh Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 --------------------- Posters have made derogatory, disparaging remarks about the young man, and his position in the household - in the world... What are you talking about? Because some referred to him as lazy, or saying that he needs to be responsible. How is stating a fact, derogatory? So...everyone. What DO you do when you have tried everything and STILL the young ADULT decides not to work or learn to care for himself? Let him live at home forever, supporting him financially? Support any wife or kids he may have, if he meets someone just like him? Where does it end? Just because some of us were taught to be self-sufficient does not mean our parents didn't love us. In fact, I think that they loved us MORE than parents who seem to want to keep their adult offspring as little dependent children forever.
DaisyLeigh Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Hold that thought ... In the next evening or two.. I will pull all of the hate comments (regarding the young man) out of the thread, and quote/post them.. Rather, you will take any post that doesn't agree with your stance, which is, allowing children to be supported financially forever, and live in your home forever, from what I gather. Right? Go ahead. I don't hate the adult stepson. I don't even know him. What I hate is how people seem to want to keep their children dependent on them forever.
fooled once Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 About a month ago, it occurred to my 12 year old son that he would not be able to earn money through his neighborhood job while away visiting his father's family. Can't walk dogs three times a week here all the way from GA. The money he earns is mostly used to pay for the data plan on his phone. Concerned that he would not be able to pay for his bill for two months, he came to me and asked if it was okay if he could earn more to cover the bill for the time he would be gone. I asked what ideas he had in mind. He said that he could do some grocery fetching for me and other people in the neighborhood with one of our utility carts as the store is only a block and a half away. His other idea was for a younger kid he knew from when he was at elementary school that needed help with math and had interest in astronomy. Since it is the end of the school year, his school work levels have dropped off giving him more time for these opportunities so I gave him permission. He paid for the two months ($70) he will be gone last night. He blows me away! And he learned that by conducting himself in a good natured manner brings more opportunities his way. If he ran the neighborhood acting like a little brat, no one would have trusted him to take on these tasks. Linwood has not asked anything of his step-son that will cause the boy harm; how is he being hateful? Sally *highfive* Great job teaching your son responsibility!! Even at 12, he is more responsible than linwood's adult stepson!! What are you talking about? Because some referred to him as lazy, or saying that he needs to be responsible. How is stating a fact, derogatory? So...everyone. What DO you do when you have tried everything and STILL the young ADULT decides not to work or learn to care for himself? Let him live at home forever, supporting him financially? Support any wife or kids he may have, if he meets someone just like him? Where does it end? Just because some of us were taught to be self-sufficient does not mean our parents didn't love us. In fact, I think that they loved us MORE than parents who seem to want to keep their adult offspring as little dependent children forever. Daisy - I got the same thing when I read her statement -- only those that cheerlead having an adult kid live at home, rent free, bill free are the only 'reasonable' people. Poor boy hasn't had a chance to find a job or do something constructive with his life... he is too busy conquering the world in video games:rolleyes: Your last paragraph was SPOT ON! My son has thanked me for being 'hard' on him, for teaching him, for supporting him while he navigated the teen years. He has written me some lovely notes (which is what I always ask for as a gift - nothing bought, but something from the heart). Parents should never be their kids friends. They are parents -- NOT friends. It blurs too many lines and too many parents are scared of upsetting poor Johnny or Suzy by being tough on them and expecting them to *gasp* go to school or do their homework or pick up their room. This kind of behavior/enabling has lead to such a huge generation of entitled kids who think they are owed something.
califnan Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Where is the hate you're talking about? I saw no hate in anyone's posts. Explain, please. -------------------- Aside from a few posters boasting of the way in which they raise their children with financial responsibility from the age of 12 ... and many saying: do this to him .. do that to him .... Yes, there were disparaging remarks regarding a young man that most of us do not even know - remarks as follows: 1) My assessment is that the boy is ****ed if he doesn't get his **** together quickly. 2) (like following through on tossing his azz out) 2) Who's gonna want to date or marry a deadbeat 3) The ADULT flopping around your house 13) She agrees tossing him out is the "best" thing to do 80) How long is he going to be a leach on society 94) If he meets someone and marries them, you just dumped a lump onto another woman 97) being allowed to use his home as a hotel 101) How long do you allow a lazy slacker to suck you dry before you finally say "enough" 127) serve his meal on a dirty plate 134) but giving the little weasel a swift kick in the keister and telling him the free ride is over 153) He is no better than a dog who does a trick or two to get fed. Linwood, the above comments should make you feel a little defensive for your wife's son.
whichwayisup Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 I beg to differ. Tell that to the kids who grew up in New York City in the 1800s and 1900s on their own, before welfare was created. Tell that to the kids who left the East Coast and moved west with nothing but their clothes and a pot to cook in. Tell that to the kids who uprooted during the Depression and went across the country, looking for work. Or the kids all around the world who've been dumped on the streets, or worse, sold, and learned to take care of themselves and often also their siblings. Times are different. Life back then is completely different than it is now, people are different, it's not as safe as it once was back then. Drugs are easy to get, let alone more addictive types of drugs. You're comparing apples and oranges here. I see some of what you're saying, but again, times were different back then and the whole mindset of those decades are not as they are now. At all. IMO, the greatest gift you can give your kid is belief that they can accomplish anything; the second best is expecting them to do so. Yes, totally agree with you. Unfortunately, this kid has no tools to know this. He need both mom and stepdad to guide him in a positive way, encourage him. With help, the kid can get there. He's lazy and doesn't care. He's gotten away with stuff in the past and he knows how to manipulate and get his way. He suffered no real consquence, no losses from his behaviour. He needs a swift kick in the butt, but done in the right way so it has a healthy impact on him. Not one that turns him down the wrong path.
whichwayisup Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 linwood, do you speak to the ex-dad? Can you talk to him about the issue? Maybe get him on board with what you're trying to do? This is a good idea, for both you and your wife to go talk to the ex.
D-Lish Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) I'll chime in about my upbringing and how it has shaped me... My younger bro had everything handed to him- he played hockey growing up and showed some promise. They bought all his equipment- never made him grab a part time job in his teens because it would interfere with his hockey... He was/is shy- and they never forced him to get a job as a result. They coddled him... I, on the other hand, played baseball and basketball- and if I wanted new shoes or a new glove- I had to earn it. When I was younger, it was allowance- but at 14, I took a job in a market selling flowers in the summer- and as soon as I was old enough to work legally- I worked part time while in highschool. My parents favoured my bro and they did a lot for him- they reasoned that because I was outgoing that I needed to earn my own way- So I have been working since I was 14 as a result, Now, years later- my brother doesn't have a regular FT job- he does piece work when it comes to him, and takes unemployment when times are tough. He doesn't seek work, he never has. If it weren't for my sis-in law updating his resume and sending them out- they'd be broke, because he was never taught how to get off his ass. I have taken more chances and had more failures than most- but I've also achieved two degrees and two diplomas, owned a business- failed in that business, gone back to working in the trenches- then got back on my feet again. One thing my parents always did was support me while in school- fully, and that sent an important message to me. I believe my bro is a product of being a coddled child. He has no ambition, no drive, and he is lazy. I blame my parents and how they differed in raising me (strict) and how they raised him. Edited June 12, 2010 by D-Lish
sally4sara Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) -------------------- Aside from a few posters boasting of the way in which they raise their children with financial responsibility from the age of 12 ... and many saying: do this to him .. do that to him .... Yes, there were disparaging remarks regarding a young man that most of us do not even know - remarks as follows: 1) My assessment is that the boy is ****ed if he doesn't get his **** together quickly. 2) (like following through on tossing his azz out) 2) Who's gonna want to date or marry a deadbeat 3) The ADULT flopping around your house 13) She agrees tossing him out is the "best" thing to do 80) How long is he going to be a leach on society 94) If he meets someone and marries them, you just dumped a lump onto another woman 97) being allowed to use his home as a hotel 101) How long do you allow a lazy slacker to suck you dry before you finally say "enough" 127) serve his meal on a dirty plate 134) but giving the little weasel a swift kick in the keister and telling him the free ride is over 153) He is no better than a dog who does a trick or two to get fed. Linwood, the above comments should make you feel a little defensive for your wife's son. Lady, there really isn't much that doesn't get your judgmental nature up is there? The point is this kid could be so much more AND happier for it! And yet, the idea of this kid getting on track and becoming a better individual seems to really piss you off. The comments you've painstakingly combed out of this thread are not the manner in which the kid has been facing. Still you keep approaching Linwood as though he has done some wrong. He posts an approach he is taking, you attack him. You suggest he has hates the kid. Anyone who gives Linwood encouragement; they are also attacked. Anyone who agrees with him and has encouraging stories of successful parenting to back up their reasons for supporting him - also draw your snide commentary. And beyond all that, you've contributed very little in the way of feasible advise. WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE? They teach classes to be this nasty or does it just come natural to you? Edited June 12, 2010 by sally4sara
DaisyLeigh Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) Lady, there really isn't much that doesn't get your judgmental nature up is there? The point is this kid could be so much more AND happier for it! And yet, the idea of this kid getting on track and becoming a better individual seems to really piss you off. The comments you've painstakingly combed out of this thread are not the manner in which the kid has been facing. Still you keep approaching Linwood as though he has done some wrong. He posts an approach he is taking, you attack him. You suggest he has hates the kid. Anyone who gives Linwood encouragement; they are also attacked. Anyone who agrees with him and has encouraging stories of successful parenting to back up their reasons for supporting him - also draw your snide commentary. And beyond all that, you've contributed very little in the way of feasible advise. WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE? They teach classes to be this nasty or does it just come natural to you? In reference to califnan's snark about the parents who "boast" about teaching their 12 yr olds to be financially responsible, let me add that there is nothing wrong with teaching a 12 yr old how to be responsible with money. The earlier the better. My 12 yr old does not have a cell phone, much less one with a data package. He is not mature enough. We will revisit having a cell phone at a later time, when he is ready for the privilege. But the other poster's son (the one with the 12 yr old who is earning his own money) seems mature beyond his years. I will bet that he will not be lying about his parents' house like some deadbeat when he is an adult. My husband and his brother helped an Avon lady distribute her books and deliver her products in order to raise money to buy their mother a beautiful glass bell for Christmas, when they were between 10 and 12. They also cut grass for neighbors when they were a bit older, to raise spending money and Christmas money. Their parents taught them how to be responsible and instilled in them that there is a sense of pride in making your own way in the world. Even at a young age. Considering my inlaws raised 12 children, and ALL of them are productive citizens, and not a bum or criminal in the bunch, I would say that they did something right. Edited June 12, 2010 by DaisyLeigh
turnera Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Times are different. Life back then is completely different than it is now, people are different, it's not as safe as it once was back then. Drugs are easy to get, let alone more addictive types of drugs. You're comparing apples and oranges here. You're right, times are different, but people aren't. We still turn into lazy bums (and that is an observation, not a hate) if we get everything handed to us. We achieve legions, if we don't have it handed to us, and we have to get off our rears and go out and get it. Kids 100 years ago went out and fed their families...because they had to. And when they became adults, they understood the need for good honest work and not taking things for granted. It's just human nature, as so many here have given examples. He's lazy and doesn't care. He's gotten away with stuff in the past and he knows how to manipulate and get his way. He suffered no real consquence, no losses from his behaviour. He needs a swift kick in the butt, but done in the right way so it has a healthy impact on him. Not one that turns him down the wrong path.That kid who came to our house? His parents saw the difference between our house and theirs. They told him that when he got back he could no longer sit at his computer for 10 hours a day. He had to interact with the family. He had to take on chores. Will he like it? No. But 10 years from now, when he's supporting his own family, he'll thank them for showing him how to get it done.
DaisyLeigh Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Times may be different, but that is still no excuse to coddle a grown man.
califnan Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Lady, there really isn't much that doesn't get your judgmental nature up is there? The point is this kid could be so much more AND happier for it! And yet, the idea of this kid getting on track and becoming a better individual seems to really piss you off. The comments you've painstakingly combed out of this thread are not the manner in which the kid has been facing. Still you keep approaching Linwood as though he has done some wrong. He posts an approach he is taking, you attack him. You suggest he has hates the kid. Anyone who gives Linwood encouragement; they are also attacked. Anyone who agrees with him and has encouraging stories of successful parenting to back up their reasons for supporting him - also draw your snide commentary. And beyond all that, you've contributed very little in the way of feasible advise. WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE? They teach classes to be this nasty or does it just come natural to you? ----------------------- Although Linwood's post painted a picture of a long suffering man with his stepson all of these years .. I saw that when one marries someone with children - they pretty much have to know that the children go with the territory for better or for worse.. So the OP made it until the young man was 20 .. so what .. So the young man sold his vehicle to make the rent .. so what .. Does any of this address the young man's obvious underlying issues/problems? No. You already knew how much I hate baby killing - as you fought with me on it .. Of course I was in this young man's corner .. It appeared the OP and many of the posters were against him.. The derogatory remarks I listed didn't even touch all of the comments of: Make him do this - make him do that .. keep this from him - take him shopping with the others, but buy for them and not him .. My signature line says: His eyes are on the sparrow..
DaisyLeigh Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 ----------------------- Although Linwood's post painted a picture of a long suffering man with his stepson all of these years .. I saw that when one marries someone with children - they pretty much have to know that the children go with the territory for better or for worse.. So the OP made it until the young man was 20 .. so what .. So the young man sold his vehicle to make the rent .. so what .. Does any of this address the young man's obvious underlying issues/problems? No. You already knew how much I hate baby killing - as you fought with me on it .. Of course I was in this young man's corner .. It appeared the OP and many of the posters were against him.. The derogatory remarks I listed didn't even touch all of the comments of: Make him do this - make him do that .. keep this from him - take him shopping with the others, but buy for them and not him .. My signature line says: His eyes are on the sparrow.. And the Lord helps those who help themselves. We can do this all day, but it won't change the facts.
sally4sara Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 ----------------------- Although Linwood's post painted a picture of a long suffering man with his stepson all of these years .. I saw that when one marries someone with children - they pretty much have to know that the children go with the territory for better or for worse.. So the OP made it until the young man was 20 .. so what .. So the young man sold his vehicle to make the rent .. so what .. Does any of this address the young man's obvious underlying issues/problems? No. You already knew how much I hate baby killing - as you fought with me on it .. Of course I was in this young man's corner .. It appeared the OP and many of the posters were against him.. The derogatory remarks I listed didn't even touch all of the comments of: Make him do this - make him do that .. keep this from him - take him shopping with the others, but buy for them and not him .. My signature line says: His eyes are on the sparrow.. And you've been fighting me with snide remarks in EVERY thread since. This thread is not about abortion and you've yet to make a dent in this pro-choice mother's views so get the eff over it. Why don't you just put me on ignore if it bothers you so much that I have things in my life to be proud of?
califnan Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 And you've been fighting me with snide remarks in EVERY thread since. This thread is not about abortion and you've yet to make a dent in this pro-choice mother's views so get the eff over it. Why don't you just put me on ignore if it bothers you so much that I have things in my life to be proud of? ---------------------- We All have "things" (people) in our lives to be proud of. And no, it should be obvious to all that I don't follow you around to "Every" (or any) threads .. I only brought up the abortion thread to demonstrate that you are only For "sally4sara:love:" ... .........but Against humanity .. i.e. unborn babies.. and even Linwood's stepson - or anyone else who you would not find of use.
sally4sara Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 ---------------------- We All have "things" (people) in our lives to be proud of. And no, it should be obvious to all that I don't follow you around to "Every" (or any) threads .. I only brought up the abortion thread to demonstrate that you are only For "sally4sara:love:" ... .........but Against humanity .. i.e. unborn babies.. and even Linwood's stepson - or anyone else who you would not find of use. This is a flat out lie. YOU are a liar. How would I CHOOSE to be a mother if I was against babies? Why would I support this kid learning to become responsible if I was against Linwood's step son? Use your damn brain for once! And yes, you do make sure to quote me and make snide comments whenever you can. Since you can't contain yourself or realize the abortion thread was long ago closed, I'll just put you on ignore.
candymoon Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 ---------------------- I only brought up the abortion thread to demonstrate that you are only For "sally4sara:love:" ... .........but Against humanity .. i.e. unborn babies.. and even Linwood's stepson - or anyone else who you would not find of use. OK, we're bringing this thread way off course and swinging around to personal & religious beliefs. Let's not to sit in judgment of Lin's way of getting his kid on track (even tho he is a step., he's helped raise him these last 10 years and is his parent nonetheless). All this personal pride and sitting in judgement of someone else is probably not productive both secularly and in Divinity. Perhaps this is for another thread? He came here for support, I think, more than advice because he had already determined the next course of action. If it is so upsetting to some, why read this thread or any thread that gets your drawers in a wad and then spend the time to post and beat down someone who is doing his damndest? Hope Lin has updates? Your thread has sparked quite the discussion!
califnan Posted June 13, 2010 Posted June 13, 2010 OK, we're bringing this thread way off course and swinging around to personal & religious beliefs. ----------------------- "candymoon" (March 2010) Are you a moderator? Since you have chosen to pick and choose of the posts 'you' (who are you?) consider ot be "off course" .. There are some of us who have commented that the young man (not "kid" - he's not a goat) deserves a little more consideration and evaluation than thoughts of eviction and disparaging posts.. and that's what I have posted as well .. Comprehend ..
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