Would you stay in a sexless marriage?

[giotto]

And today the count starts again at 1.....

 

lol...I won't be putting any smiley faces on the calendar, though...

[WalkInThePark]

because the wife climaxed when giving me oral

 

Euh... are you sure she did not fake that? I mean, giving oral to your man is definitely exciting but there is no way I could climax from that unless my man is doing something to me at the same time. And you don't mention any of that here...

[WalkInThePark]

And today the count starts again at 1.....

 

... until the next desparate topic. Can't help it but I've got the feeling that now some mercy sex is been given.

 

Can't understand either that this woman who hates sex and fear Giotto, is capable of telling one day beforehand she will have sex. I mean, that shows that she can do it if only she wants to do it, no?

[giotto]

Euh... are you sure she did not fake that? I mean, giving oral to your man is definitely exciting but there is no way I could climax from that unless my man is doing something to me at the same time. And you don't mention any of that here...

 

she was rubbing her "lower parts" on my knee...

[giotto]

... until the next desparate topic. Can't help it but I've got the feeling that now some mercy sex is been given.

 

Can't understand either that this woman who hates sex and fear Giotto, is capable of telling one day beforehand she will have sex. I mean, that shows that she can do it if only she wants to do it, no?

 

you are quite right... mercy sex? Possibly... probably... I know she is doing it to keep me here. She knows I will walk and I'm pretty sure she'd rather have sex with me from time to time than disrupt the family and hurt the children. It's the lesser of two evils, I suppose. Am I happy? mmmm... not particularly, especially because I seem to be unable to establish the truth. On the other hand, I don't know if I will be able to ever leave the children until they are older, so, if I'm staying, at least I'm getting some sex...

 

Sad? Maybe... I don't know what to think anymore...

[JamesM]

James, happy to read of your improvements and my sympathies regarding your wife's pain management regime. That's got to be tough.

 

Thanks. While I cannot say for certain that pain is at the root of the problem, by process of elimination, it does seem to play more of a role than I thought.

 

You say that you can only believe it is your wife's choice to have sex with you? Why don't you ask her?

 

We have had many conversations over the years. Some were open and honest with no anger or resentment. Others were not. She has given many possible reasons behind a low libido. Perhaps she is not being honest with me when she says she doesn't really know.

 

I have researched every possible angle and have considered some possible and others unlikely.

 

And since pain is a big part of her life, then I must face the fact that it certainly can reduce sexual desire.

 

 

Again you say that you "believe". Does that mean that you and your wife are not talking about this? You say that there is more sex now. Don't you ask your wife why there is more sex? Don't you ask her if she feels better physically?

 

No. No. Yes, every day.

 

I can say without a doubt that compared to many people here, sex does not rule my life. The absence of sex may become a problem, but when there is sex occasionally, then I am fine. I don't "need" frequent sessions, and I never have. I simply enjoy the knowledge that she wants to express her love to me sexually and feels enjoyment with sex, too.

 

If I did not love her, then I don't think I would be seeking answers.

 

Euh... are you sure she did not fake that? I mean, giving oral to your man is definitely exciting but there is no way I could climax from that unless my man is doing something to me at the same time. And you don't mention any of that here...

 

I wondered that, too. All women are different, but even if she orgasmed while giving oral sex, then I have to wonder why she would not desire more orgasms. When my wife has one (which takes a long time to reach), then she is always open for more. And she is always even more sexually aroused than prior to the orgasm.

 

Most women are far different than men. Men have an orgasm and all interest in sex is gone. Women have an orgasm and can gain even more interest in sex.

 

But again, every woman is different, I suppose.

 

.

Can't understand either that this woman who hates sex and fear Giotto, is capable of telling one day beforehand she will have sex. I mean, that shows that she can do it if only she wants to do it, no?

 

All women are different. Some women can schedule sex, while others (like my wife) cannot stand the idea that sex is expected.

 

My wife likes spontaneity. And if she "schedules" sex, then she never tells me.

 

Giotto, let's hope this is an improvement and not an anomaly.

[giotto]

All women are different. Some women can schedule sex, while others (like my wife) cannot stand the idea that sex is expected.

 

My wife likes spontaneity. And if she "schedules" sex, then she never tells me.

 

Giotto, let's hope this is an improvement and not an anomaly.

 

 

She didn't use to, either. I think she's come to the conclusion that she has to plan it in order to be able to have it... otherwise it never happens...

 

I hope it's not an anomaly as well...

[mem11363]

G,

I just hope your wife stops this exercise of "seeing if you will leave over sex" before she has sex with you. If you consider the sequence of conversations, you steadily escalated, and near the peak of tension she was still telling you that you should simply accept a sexless marriage (for the rest of your marriage) even though she KNOWS you hate that idea with a passion. As you seem to reach the point of walking she appears to realize that and make some effort.

 

Her behavior makes her view of sex fairly obvious - whether or not she reaches the rapture kind of doesn't matter. She needs to look at sex as something that is simply required for you to feel loved enough to stay - FULL STOP. And she needs to stop playing a game of marital chicken with you on this subject.

 

I think the biggest single disservice you did yourself is the long period during which you tolerated this behavior on her part.

 

 

 

you are quite right... mercy sex? Possibly... probably... I know she is doing it to keep me here. She knows I will walk and I'm pretty sure she'd rather have sex with me from time to time than disrupt the family and hurt the children. It's the lesser of two evils, I suppose. Am I happy? mmmm... not particularly, especially because I seem to be unable to establish the truth. On the other hand, I don't know if I will be able to ever leave the children until they are older, so, if I'm staying, at least I'm getting some sex...

 

Sad? Maybe... I don't know what to think anymore...

[xxoo]

Glad to hear you had a fun evening!

 

Euh... are you sure she did not fake that? I mean, giving oral to your man is definitely exciting but there is no way I could climax from that unless my man is doing something to me at the same time. And you don't mention any of that here...

 

I do (as Giotto described, with some rubbing....but I climax easiest this way because it is such a turn on for me).

 

Actually, this might be a clue into your wife's mind, Giotto (or maybe not ). It drives me wild because I get sexually submissive when turned on. Those fantasies aren't something I choose....and can be disturbing when I think about it too much, lol. It's possible that she is ashamed of or disturbed by her own fantasies, and so motivated to avoid them.

[giotto]

G,

I just hope your wife stops this exercise of "seeing if you will leave over sex" before she has sex with you. If you consider the sequence of conversations, you steadily escalated, and near the peak of tension she was still telling you that you should simply accept a sexless marriage (for the rest of your marriage) even though she KNOWS you hate that idea with a passion. As you seem to reach the point of walking she appears to realize that and make some effort.

 

Her behavior makes her view of sex fairly obvious - whether or not she reaches the rapture kind of doesn't matter. She needs to look at sex as something that is simply required for you to feel loved enough to stay - FULL STOP. And she needs to stop playing a game of marital chicken with you on this subject.

 

I think the biggest single disservice you did yourself is the long period during which you tolerated this behavior on her part.

 

well, yes, but we did have a good spell last year, until she "forgot" about it (Christmas and the lot) and I got resentful, putting her off. This stemmed from me telling her I was leaving... yes, it is sad that it has to come to that every time. But now I know what puts her off, so I will be more careful and avoid certain behaviours...

 

And you are also right that I didn't act soon enough to correct the situation. Unfortunately, I had to get to breaking point before I could take action. I let it fester, until it was almost unsalvageable...

[giotto]

Actually, this might be a clue into your wife's mind, Giotto (or maybe not ). It drives me wild because I get sexually submissive when turned on. Those fantasies aren't something I choose....and can be disturbing when I think about it too much, lol. It's possible that she is ashamed of or disturbed by her own fantasies, and so motivated to avoid them.

 

possible... she does get quite submissive when she is turned on, but she is not that adventurous in bed and she's never told me any of her fantasies...

[BettyBoop]

she was rubbing her "lower parts" on my knee...

 

Wow you're wife must be really short or very flexible! I am 5'1 and there is no way I'd reach my sensitive parts and be able to give head at the same time on my guy's knee without breaking my back. However, I do agree giving head is a big turn-on. ^^ Happy it was nice for you, G. Hope this will make you happy...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Wow you're wife must be really short or very flexible! I am 5'1 and there is no way I'd reach my sensitive parts and be able to give head at the same time on my guy's knee without breaking my back. However, I do agree giving head is a big turn-on. ^^ Happy it was nice for you, G. Hope this will make you happy...

 

how happy that can make us??? At least for a 24-48 hours....

[xxoo]

Pragmatic, I don't think it is that women don't understand how happy it makes men. We know.

 

Maybe some women are cold and/or manipulative and just don't care.

 

Maybe some women can participate with equal enthusiasm at all times.

 

For the rest of us, it is a complex issue involving accepting a body part/fluids into our bodies. It's an extremely vulnerable position. A lot of women have to be in the right frame of mind to put themselves in that position. In ideal circumstances, we can manage to get there easily. But, when there are other issues involved (hormones, medications, illness, stress, relationship issues, etc), it can be a genuine challenge.

[BettyBoop]

how happy that can make us??? At least for a 24-48 hours....

 

I just wonder if she really does orgasm that easily and enjoys sex then why not want it more often? With my ex-fiancé, at the end of our relationship, I had real good selfish sex where I couldn't care less if he came or not - and most of the time he didn't get to because my satisfaction did not include him being inside me - just me rubbing the right bits.

 

Like, the point I am trying to make is that even if a woman doesn't really love the guy anymore - if the sex is great we'd still be able to have it...or at least I do. That is why this is so damn confusing to me...even when I no longer liked my partner, even disliked him, the sex was so darn good I still had it regularly daily...

[mem11363]

G,

Who is responsible for initiating on a regular basis? Her or you? If she is responsible - which is how it should be - what is your agreement for how you should remind her when she forgets? Because there is a low impact way to remind someone - for us, right after dinner I say "tonight?" as a question. Just that one word.

 

But somehow you need to create a dynamic where when you "remind" her, she knows that within a few days she needs to connect with you.

 

My wife has created a large bank of good will over the years by being generous about our differences. So sometimes we DO argue about sex - she is saying we should - I am saying I can wait. The night before I left for my 3 day weekend - we did NOT connect because I told her to go to sleep and she gratefully did so. Last night we had the following exchange:

Me: what kind of night are we having?

Her: a fun night

Me: I have a keen ear for distinguishing between the sound of desire and the sound of obligation - (this was said with a laugh)

Her: It has been a whole week

Me: I love you enough to be patient

Her: I love you enough to want to make you happy

Me: I

Her: Interrupting - "I am the youngest, end of conversation - go take a shower"

 

I mention this exchange because I "did" remind her, figuring that sometime in the next few days we would connect - but she could tell from my tone that I wasn't angry/annoyed and in fact really was willing to give her some more space.

 

And if she had taken me up on that - and not connected with me, I would have been fine, but within a few days I would have just said in a pained but not angry tone "baby - I am dying - mercy" which always produces the same result - sympathy and sympathetic sex that night. Not very flattering to my self image but certainly a confirmation she still cares how I feel.

 

 

 

well, yes, but we did have a good spell last year, until she "forgot" about it (Christmas and the lot) and I got resentful, putting her off. This stemmed from me telling her I was leaving... yes, it is sad that it has to come to that every time. But now I know what puts her off, so I will be more careful and avoid certain behaviours...

 

And you are also right that I didn't act soon enough to correct the situation. Unfortunately, I had to get to breaking point before I could take action. I let it fester, until it was almost unsalvageable...

[giotto]

I just wonder if she really does orgasm that easily and enjoys sex then why not want it more often?

 

 

Are you really asking me? You are the woman! I could have sex with my wife every day... I would... don't know how long I could sustain it, but at least six months, guaranteed... (sex starvation?) Then, every other day? Honest, if the sexual chemistry is there, it's explosive... our sex can be explosive, but it doesn't happen that often... when we have it...

[giotto]

Wow you're wife must be really short or very flexible! I am 5'1 and there is no way I'd reach my sensitive parts and be able to give head at the same time on my guy's knee without breaking my back. However, I do agree giving head is a big turn-on. ^^ Happy it was nice for you, G. Hope this will make you happy...

 

I didn't do very much last night... she did everything...

[giotto]

G,

Who is responsible for initiating on a regular basis? Her or you? If she is responsible - which is how it should be - what is your agreement for how you should remind her when she forgets? Because there is a low impact way to remind someone - for us, right after dinner I say "tonight?" as a question. Just that one word.

 

But somehow you need to create a dynamic where when you "remind" her, she knows that within a few days she needs to connect with you.

 

My wife has created a large bank of good will over the years by being generous about our differences. So sometimes we DO argue about sex - she is saying we should - I am saying I can wait. The night before I left for my 3 day weekend - we did NOT connect because I told her to go to sleep and she gratefully did so. Last night we had the following exchange:

Me: what kind of night are we having?

Her: a fun night

Me: I have a keen ear for distinguishing between the sound of desire and the sound of obligation - (this was said with a laugh)

Her: It has been a whole week

Me: I love you enough to be patient

Her: I love you enough to want to make you happy

Me: I

Her: Interrupting - "I am the youngest, end of conversation - go take a shower"

 

I mention this exchange because I "did" remind her, figuring that sometime in the next few days we would connect - but she could tell from my tone that I wasn't angry/annoyed and in fact really was willing to give her some more space.

 

And if she had taken me up on that - and not connected with me, I would have been fine, but within a few days I would have just said in a pained but not angry tone "baby - I am dying - mercy" which always produces the same result - sympathy and sympathetic sex that night. Not very flattering to my self image but certainly a confirmation she still cares how I feel.

 

First of all, I hope you are ok...

 

We haven't really discussed who's going to initiate, I'm afraid... her proposition was out of the blue... and she was coming to bed with a very tight top and I kind of lost it... I'm sure she'll tell me when she is in the mood... hopefully, it will be around the 10 day mark. I wouldn't mind that. The thing is, I can't remind... it's a huge turn off for her... let's hope she will take my needs into more consideration this time...

[BettyBoop]

Are you really asking me? You are the woman!

 

Yes, but I am the 20-something woman with no kids! ^^ So I don't know how much kids could kill my sex drive. Besides, I've never orgasmed and still want to have sex...and I think that if I could orgasm I'd want it even more often. So it's a mystery to us both!

[mem11363]

This is the dynamic that the therapist needs to help you/her change. Because basically the deal you are agreeing to does NOT work and is not even close to fair. It is basically this:

- You agree to a frequency that is borderline sexual starvation

- You are NOT ALLOWED to mention your needs when they are ignored because that "makes her feel pressured" guess what - feeling ignored makes you feel angry.

 

This approach is just wrong - it is abusive. It is WHY when you do eventually react you explode. She needs someone to tell her that she either needs to stick with a schedule - 10 days max - OR - she needs to agree that when you give her a polite / non angry reminder - she needs to respond.

 

I know that the term bully has been applied to me - I don't feel bad when you guys say that because I KNOW I am not a bully. But what is happening here is your WIFE is bullying YOU with this type structure.

 

 

 

First of all, I hope you are ok...

 

We haven't really discussed who's going to initiate, I'm afraid... her proposition was out of the blue... and she was coming to bed with a very tight top and I kind of lost it... I'm sure she'll tell me when she is in the mood... hopefully, it will be around the 10 day mark. I wouldn't mind that. The thing is, I can't remind... it's a huge turn off for her... let's hope she will take my needs into more consideration this time...

[cuppa]

Yes, but I am the 20-something woman with no kids! ^^ So I don't know how much kids could kill my sex drive. Besides, I've never orgasmed and still want to have sex...and I think that if I could orgasm I'd want it even more often. So it's a mystery to us both!

 

Well I think sometimes, you get your satisfaction from your partner getting that (mind blowing) Orgasm.

 

When I went to IC before, I was told that I am social and I draw happiness from other people happiness. Could it be the same for you, the fact that your partner draw satisfaction from you, it makes you happy.

 

All these sex talks make me depressed

[xxoo]

Yes, but I am the 20-something woman with no kids! ^^ So I don't know how much kids could kill my sex drive. Besides, I've never orgasmed and still want to have sex...and I think that if I could orgasm I'd want it even more often. So it's a mystery to us both!

 

Is there another thread somewhere re: woman-to-woman advice about orgasm?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I just wonder if she really does orgasm that easily and enjoys sex then why not want it more often? With my ex-fiancé, at the end of our relationship, I had real good selfish sex where I couldn't care less if he came or not - and most of the time he didn't get to because my satisfaction did not include him being inside me - just me rubbing the right bits.

 

Like, the point I am trying to make is that even if a woman doesn't really love the guy anymore - if the sex is great we'd still be able to have it...or at least I do. That is why this is so damn confusing to me...even when I no longer liked my partner, even disliked him, the sex was so darn good I still had it regularly daily...

 

You have no idea how often I have asked that question only to be stymied. There are times we don't get along or disagree (and usually always about the three things married couples do..... Money, Children, Home).... But should that take away from a loving relationship that includes sex????

 

Now I am very lucky (knocking hard on wood).... No health issues, extended family creates stress, but nothing huge, children are a handful, but good kids..... So I wonder when that balance becomes tipped, there will be little hope, if there are problems now......

 

So my question for you Bettyboop..... Love sex but can't (don't) orgasm.... How is that and have you not been able to do it by yourself?

 

I love how little I know at my advanced age......

[cuppa]

First of all, I hope you are ok...

 

We haven't really discussed who's going to initiate, I'm afraid... her proposition was out of the blue... and she was coming to bed with a very tight top and I kind of lost it... I'm sure she'll tell me when she is in the mood... hopefully, it will be around the 10 day mark. I wouldn't mind that. The thing is, I can't remind... it's a huge turn off for her... let's hope she will take my needs into more consideration this time...

 

Gosh, you are so "easy" giotto. I wish I could drive my hubby wild with just a tight top. Just out of curiousity, what does she wear if she's not in the mood? Pajama?