jj33 Posted November 20, 2008 Posted November 20, 2008 WS I think that is a good plan and its something that you are comfortable with. IMO when you get involved with someone who is leaving a marriage and its more than casual dating, then you are signing up for a certain amount of moods and possible waffling. Its a question of how the divorcing partner deals with it. And you are OK with that and you are setting boundaries so that he cant go beyond a certain point. The only question is.... it has been necessary to some degree for you to accomodate his moods etc throughout the relationship thus far due to his circumstances. Assuming you guys make it through his divorce, how is that dynamic in the relationship going to change? On the one hand you could say well divorce is one of hte most traumatic events a person ever goes through. It wont be like this in the future. Or it could be that the dynamic will continue to exist between you unless there is some way of changing it. Some people are OK with that. Relatoinships are rarely equal. People bring different emotional strengths and weaknesses to a relationship and often they compliment each other. You may have considered this and decided that you can be the stronger one in the face of his moods because he has other qualities that make up for it. But it is something to think about before you get more involved. Glad you are feeling better about things.
Die Hard Posted November 20, 2008 Posted November 20, 2008 I also told him that I don't want him to say yes out of guilt over hurting me, or fear that I'm going to break up with him over it. I said, "I'm taking those 2 things OFF the table." Maybe if you wait around long enough you'll hear these famous words: "After 16 years of marriage I just need to be by myself and single for awhile." IMO, that is what is coming. And I wouldn't worry about it one way or the other as he doesn't care if you break up with him. His actions show that clearly. In fact, I suspect you are avoiding breaking up because you fear he will say "yeah, a break might be a good idea right now". Besides, he knows if he decides he wants you back again he can get you eventually. Look, you're going to be hurt and in pain if this relationship ends, regardless. But I can tell you this: it is a LOT easier if it ends on your terms with you making the decisions. If you keep going the way you are, you're going to let him be the one who ends it, on his terms, and that will make the pain and hurt all the worse. From everything you've written, IMO, this guy is either going to go back to his wife, or leave her AND you. Again, I hope I am wrong and wish you nothing but the best. Just think some about what I said regarding the pain of you ending it vs. the pain of him ending it and breaking your heart. I know you're holding on to hope but it's fools gold. Hope everything works out one way or another to where you are happy.
Author wildsoul Posted November 20, 2008 Author Posted November 20, 2008 But I can tell you this: it is a LOT easier if it ends on your terms with you making the decisions. And so you're telling me that my terms and the decision I just made are wrong because...?
Author wildsoul Posted November 20, 2008 Author Posted November 20, 2008 I hope I typed that all ok. I've had a very hectic day & I'm exhausted. I just wanted to check in on you. As always, Ms. Red wishes you well. =^-^= Duly noted, and THANK YOU for taking the time to do that tedious multi-quote thing to explain. I read it once, and will read it again later too. Rest up and be well Ms. Red.
Die Hard Posted November 20, 2008 Posted November 20, 2008 And so you're telling me that my terms and the decision I just made are wrong because...? Let's be clear that I've read this and your other threads. Given that, let's just pretend you've actually made a decision here. What, to demand an answer by tomorrow night? And to not break up with him regardless? Now, let's remember that at one time you said it was not acceptable that he spend the night, or even GO to his wife's house. They were meeting between residences, remember? Now he's spending nights there. Maybe even sleeping with her. Your words. He can do whatever he wants regarding t-day and he KNOWS it. Christmas too. He ALREADY knows you aren't going anywhere. I'm going to stop here, mainly because you are going to do what you are going to do. I just saw GEL's thread and it really got me to thinking though. She's with her guy now and she NEVER would have tolerated this kind of stuff and you know what? I think that has a lot to do with why they are together. Anyway, I hope it works out with this guy. If it doesn't, you'll make it through the pain and come out stronger. You won't be able to see it at first, but it's the truth.
Author wildsoul Posted November 20, 2008 Author Posted November 20, 2008 Let's be clear that I've read this and your other threads. Given that, let's just pretend you've actually made a decision here. What, to demand an answer by tomorrow night? And to not break up with him regardless? Now, let's remember that at one time you said it was not acceptable that he spend the night, or even GO to his wife's house. They were meeting between residences, remember? Now he's spending nights there. Maybe even sleeping with her. Your words. He can do whatever he wants regarding t-day and he KNOWS it. Christmas too. He ALREADY knows you aren't going anywhere. I'm going to stop here, mainly because you are going to do what you are going to do. I just saw GEL's thread and it really got me to thinking though. She's with her guy now and she NEVER would have tolerated this kind of stuff and you know what? I think that has a lot to do with why they are together. Anyway, I hope it works out with this guy. If it doesn't, you'll make it through the pain and come out stronger. You won't be able to see it at first, but it's the truth. Okay, you've made some good points here. You did before too, but that one comment felt like a double-bind. One of my pet peeves here, due to the nature of having a lot of differing opinions, is the damned if you do, damned if you don't type of responses. It can be frustrating. I rolled my eyes, but didn't mean to dismiss you entirely. Not at all. I'm trying to practice a way of being more loving, less defensive, and less black/white in my relationships. I don't want to always threaten, "If you don't do what I want, I'm leaving." So before I have a temper tantrum and walk away (which is a role I've played many times) I'm trying to see if there is a way to get what I want/need AND also help my partner get what he wants/needs. Lucrezia Borgia once wrote, "This is a hill to DIE on," and I've thought about it since. But how do I know which battles to pick? I know it looks easy to you, and I can see that everyone here is saying "good god, when is she gonna GET it?" But I guess I still don't know which boundaries are mutable and which are not. I decided that T-day is not. And you're right that I still haven't decided about the R overall.
norajane Posted November 20, 2008 Posted November 20, 2008 I'm trying to practice a way of being more loving, less defensive, and less black/white in my relationships. I don't want to always threaten, "If you don't do what I want, I'm leaving." So before I have a temper tantrum and walk away (which is a role I've played many times) I'm trying to see if there is a way to get what I want/need AND also help my partner get what he wants/needs. The only way you can do this is if you lower your expectations of him right now, and for the foreseeable future. Because he can't give you what you want and need right now. So unless you lower your expectations to only what he can give, you'll be disappointed. But lowering your expectations to his level, means accepting that he's spending nights at their house, and is handling this separation with her his way, including not being able to commit to holidays with you. It means accepting that he hasn't told her that he's seeing someone else, much less that he is in love with someone else. It means waiting indefinitely for him to file for a divorce. If you can't lower your expectations that much, then you can calmly tell him that your expectations of a bf are higher than he can meet right now, so you are stepping away from his separation until he's filed for divorce. It's your choice.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted November 20, 2008 Posted November 20, 2008 I'm trying to practice a way of being more loving, less defensive, and less black/white in my relationships OK, that's nice, if you are dealing with a nice situation... which you are not. You know what WS??? IF you were dating a single guy who chose to bestow the same blessings on you, you would be nothing less than blissful. THAT is not the case here. In this case, you are becoming a door mat. WHY????? Because you fantasize that the end result will make the pain worth it??? Do you really believe that??? One of my pet peeves here, due to the nature of having a lot of differing opinions, is the damned if you do, damned if you don't type of responses How exactly are you damned if you don't??? I play the lottery each week can't win without playing. But it is $1. I'm not risking anything. YOU are. Can I be very blunt for one moment.... OK... I'll take that as a yes! May: I discovered he was also trying to date other women online, while he was professing his eternal love for me. He dismissed it as internet flirting. I broke it off again. I considered mentioning this the other night. Can you honestly tell me that in no way this enters your mind when considering NC or LC????? answer this honestly for your own well being. I've said before that there is NO fire, though in your case the Xmas thing is VERY significant. Take as much time as you will WS, but the more investment you have, the more you have to loose. I'm sorry that someone has chosen this for you equally as much as I am sorry that you have accepted it for yourself. Last comment, I completely admire your honesty on this thread and the fact that you continue to post despite the fact that MOST point toward things you don't want to hear. You've got more gumption that I could ever belly up to! ( I have no friggin' clue why I cannot turn off the itallics:rolleyes:, but that won't go away!) Good Luck, stay strong! One thing I've learned here is that you will never be ready.... until you're ready.
Author wildsoul Posted November 20, 2008 Author Posted November 20, 2008 You've got more gumption that I could ever belly up to! Oh honey, you have oodles of gumption! That was a heckuv a post. But you see, I don't slink away with my tail between my legs or get overly defensive with any of the posters here because: a) I asked for help. b) I appreciate all the time & wisdom everyone has provided. c) I'm open to learning, even if it's just a nugget, or when an opposing opinion makes me get more clear on my own. I am also noticing that the escalation of voices is what happens when people perceive someone is in denial. Man, I can tell you that there have been some other threads here where I've felt like shaking the OP too. So even though it's a bit intense to read escalating replies, I also learn from that too. But to be honest, as is my way, I sometimes notice that I do BETTER when I don't read this forum as much. It makes me more suspicious and uptight in my R. Things tend to improve with us when I'm following my inner-guidance. But the flipside of that is that this forum really helps me sort myself out. Besides, it's a good reality check. I do like to learn from the mistakes of others who've gone before me. So THANKS.
2sunny Posted November 20, 2008 Posted November 20, 2008 big hugs WS! i'm sure this is so darn difficult for you! i wish it weren't like this for you.
RecordProducer Posted November 20, 2008 Posted November 20, 2008 I think you women are starting to give Wildsoul a hard time. This is her life, after all.
Author wildsoul Posted November 21, 2008 Author Posted November 21, 2008 A lot of you might think I did it wrong, but for me, this is what finally felt right: I sent him a short email that cuminated in asking for decision by tomorrow night. I told him I didn't like all the pressure built up on this, and said that I only want him to say yes if he really wants to be by my side and it feels right. I also told him that I don't want him to say yes out of guilt over hurting me, or fear that I'm going to break up with him over it. I said, "I'm taking those 2 things OFF the table." He needs to let me know by tomorrow night, so I can get on with looking forward to the parties next week, whether he's going w/ me or not. Yay...he just called and said he will be spending both days with me!
GreenEyedLady Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Yay...he just called and said he will be spending both days with me! Good, the head is coming out of his, you know... I hope you guys have a great time!
Author wildsoul Posted November 21, 2008 Author Posted November 21, 2008 Good, the head is coming out of his, you know... I hope you guys have a great time! Thanks! And now I also know that he didn't say yes out of guilt or fear of losing me. Granted, I slipped in the message that breaking up must have been ON the table, because otherwise I couldn't have taken it off.
Cheesecake Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 That's great news! Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!
RecordProducer Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Yay...he just called and said he will be spending both days with me! I am really happy for you. And now I also know that he didn't say yes out of guilt or fear of losing me. Granted, I slipped in the message that breaking up must have been ON the table, because otherwise I couldn't have taken it off. You mean he had the ultimatum in mind?
IfWishesWereHorses Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 I slipped in the message that breaking up must have been ON the table, because otherwise I couldn't have taken it off. Good for you for putting your foot down. Enjoy T-day and the day after!!! Make it a party he won't want to miss Christmas Day! I'm already exhausted with the preparations and haven't even shopped or prepared yet!!!
Cliche Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Lucrezia Borgia once wrote, "This is a hill to DIE on," and I've thought about it since. But how do I know which battles to pick? I know it looks easy to you, and I can see that everyone here is saying "good god, when is she gonna GET it?" But I guess I still don't know which boundaries are mutable and which are not. I decided that T-day is not. And you're right that I still haven't decided about the R overall. Only you know which battles to pick. And just because an issue may seem insignificant to us outsiders, if it doesn't feel insignificant to you, then make it a must have for you. It sounds like you've done that for Christmas. Holidays are VERY important to me. Frankly, all of them. When my partner and I were only together about 6 months (2 years ago), and I didn't know he was living still with his exW, I did not make a fuss about us not spending Thanksgiving together. I figured we were too "new" for me to push it. I suspect he spent it with his W. It took me nearly a year to get over that. Anyway, that was the only holiday I let pass. I realized that holidays were important to me, and if my partner loved me and cherished me, he would spend those times with me to make me happy. And he did. He never spent another holiday away from me, even when he was married/living with her. So my point is, if something means the world to you--rational or not--you need to tell him that, and he needs to make you happy on that point. That's the battle worth fighting.
Cliche Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 And I made that last post before reading the resolution. Good for you, Wildsoul. Have a beautiful Thanksgiving!!
2sunny Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 have a great Thanksgiving! glad you worked out the situation. it's hard for me to NOT be mad that he put you through the turmoil he did. did he ever tell you details about what was discussed with his wife and what took so long that he stayed with her two days? are you planning to ask him to be more honest and up front about what happens under these conditions - should this ever come up again? better communication i suppose, is what needs to be addressed... can you do that? better communication would have saved you a LOT of anxiety. that's not too much to ask.
Ms. Red Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Happy for you. I'm glad it worked out. I hope he treats you well from here on out. Have fun & have some Pumpkin Pie for me. I'm really watching what I eat & so far it's working good for me coz I've lost 28lbs in the last month or so. So, no pie for me this Thanksgiving.
whichwayisup Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 WS, enjoy the holiday and just go with the flow. Meaning, if he seems abit out of sorts or not himself (not saying he WILL be, but there is still a possibility of that) don't react to it as it's not about you.
jwi71 Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Well Wild, I guess the ultimatum worked. Well, duh, obviously it worked! I am happy you have him for the holidays. Maybe I was wrong, maybe you two have a chance after all....and, following along with WWIU, take it in stride.
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