Empathy for BS?

[GreenEyedLady]

I guess what I was trying to say is that it's not all about the BS.

 

And sometimes it's not about the BS at all.

 

GEL

[LostGirl811]

Is it just me, or do we all spend way too much time on this board? Especially when certain people (:::cough cough::: should be spending time studying, writing patient charts, or a plethora of other activities she needs to be doing?

 

Argh, its another addiction Damn you, LS !

[Owl]

Come on now.. don't be ridiculous..

 

LOL...Lizzie, my suggestion was absolutely no more ridiculous than yours.

[blueberry]

Perhaps if I could get one message across to OP's it would be to really consider all the evidence before accepting things about someone that you do not know. And, to consider how you'd feel in that person's shoes.

.

 

 

Congratulations for writing the most patronising post ever.

[noforgiveness]

I guess what I was trying to say is that it's not all about the BS.

 

And sometimes it's not about the BS at all.

 

GEL

 

GEL your married man lied to you correct? You did not even know he was married when you fell for him correct? And this is the man you are going to marry????? WOW!!! Good luck with that. You know him as not only being a liar to his wife but also one to you.

[twice_shy]

GEL your married man lied to you correct? You did not even know he was married when you fell for him correct? And this is the man you are going to marry????? WOW!!! Good luck with that. You know him as not only being a liar to his wife but also one to you.

 

And he is also a cheater. What a catch!

[NewSunrise]

Absolutely. And by NOT finding out what is REALLY going on in these people's marriages, she can continue to tell herself that these MM are telling her the truth when they say they get none at home.

Isn't that called "denial" which most OPs deny it as being one?

OOOOKay....

[LostGirl811]

 

 

 

and just what advice are you looking for with the "its not my responsibility, why should I care about the BW" attitude?

 

Obviously none that is constructive from you. I got some good advice elsewhere, both from people against what I was doing and for.

 

All you do is insult people. So from now on, yes, Im going to ignore every post you put. Kind of like overlooking the garbage on the sidewalk on a hot New York day- you can smell its bitter stink, but if you ignore it you can appreciate the good around it.

 

Ta ta.

[Owl]

Bear in mind tho...Lizzie isn't an "OW"...with the POSSIBLE exception of in one of her MM's instances where he's not part of her "supplemental income".

 

Otherwise, her MM are men who provide her with "gifts" for what she does.

 

She's not in love with any of them, she's not emotionally attached to any but perhaps the one...in other words, the relationships are for the most part "professional".

 

So her POV on how her 'services' help the marriage would be based off of that 'business' she's made it into as well. I think its all part of her mental gymnastics to allow her to be comfortable with this profession.

[NewSunrise]

I don't need to reread. It was implied.

A lot people tend to misread things on this board.

My point was that the BS is in denial. We agree there.

OP AND BS are usually in denial, in different ways. Albeit all the negative ad campaigns and publicity the MP is doing against the BS which OPs believe to be the "truth", OP is in denial that the M exists and for some MPs have no intention of leaving the M for them. But OPs hang on until the MPs decide to stay M. BS is in denial caused by the shock factor of the A, the pain of betrayal which lasts, for some, even far beyond the sepration and D.

 

And sometimes the R doesn't end. Sometimes the M does.

 

 

 

As long as those individuals allow themselves to be in dragged in a three way R, they will stay. Those who stay, do so because they believe it's worth saving. OP stay, wait on the sideline out of love for their MP and watch for the M to fall apart and then waltz right in with the MP. BS stay for the same kind of love for their WS to save the M. MPs? Some MPs stay with the BS for the same reason the BS have for staying in the M. But for some MPs who stay M but continue the A, do so because:

1. BS is unaware of the A
   
2. BS is aware of the A, but equally in an A themselves and WS is unaware
   
3. Both BS and WS have an open M
   

So based on these possibilities, it would be wise, IMO for any OPs to find out which category they might fall under at some point down the road should the the MP choose them.

 

In your case, your MM's W was in #1

 

Where do you think you might fall under once you marry your MM?

 

 

Your reasoning into why OP's are in the R is very simplistic. You have never been one so you don't understand. I would also assume you've never been a WS, so you are relying on what you've been told by your H(X?) and read.

Simplistic, eh? Hmmm... I was actually thinking the same about your first reply.

 

You don't have to be an OP or become a WS to understand the implications of the emotional entanglements of any A. But there is the "simplistic" and fundamental value of what M stands. Perhaps, you have no idea what those fundamental values are. Or perhaps in your case, you just assume not deal with it because it would disrupt the fundamental values of your R.

 

With my job, I've had many opportunities and still do to become both the OW or WS. Unlike you, I chose against it for the opposing reasons to yours of being the OP.

 

And finally, the clincher. Children. Are we really going to expect the OP's to be responsible for the MP's children? It is the WS's responsibility.

Now, you're thinking way too simplistic GEL. It's the WS responsibility? Knock, knock. Anybody home?

 

The responsibility of children rests with both PARENTS. But should the MP choose the OP, what role do you think OP will play in the children's lives?

 

Perhaps that is when you see a fundamental incompatibility when the way your spouse prioritizes your children differently than you. Doesn't even have to be an A. Maybe that's what it really boils down. Incompatibility. Some stick it out. Some hope to find someone with the same priorities and compatibility.

Huh? Incompatibility? To what? The A in relation to children?

 

Here's another wake up call. Children are children. Incompatibility shouldn't be part of the parenting program. It's called responsibility, respect, commitment and love in every form and angle of the words. The same required in any relationship especially in a M. Some R lasts longer because both partners have learned to "grow" along each other. ALL R have peaks and valleys. It boils down to the level of COMMITMENT each partner has for each other and the M/R in order to withstand the valleys.

 

Though we all know that as much as marital history is rewritten, the A history is often rewritten too.

EVERYONE writes their own history. But you can't rewrite what happened in history.

[noforgiveness]

Obviously none that is constructive from you. I got some good advice elsewhere, both from people against what I was doing and for.

 

All you do is insult people. So from now on, yes, Im going to ignore every post you put. Kind of like overlooking the garbage on the sidewalk on a hot New York day- you can smell its bitter stink, but if you ignore it you can appreciate the good around it.

 

Ta ta.

 

wow just wow. Again the real person comes the surface. The only one I see hurling insults is you. People are rying to show you the truth to the pain you will be causing and you don't want to see it. You hide from it because you know it's true so you lash out with insults and screams of bitterness as your real personality comes through not this nice person you are trying to prove you are.

[pelicanpreacher]

Sunrise,

 

Sigh indeed! I get the message, truly.

 

I know you're trying to make an analogy, but it doesnt quite fit. See, I'll show you how it can be seen in a plethora of ways.

 

when I met my MM, I had plenty of attraction, sexual frustrations, and intense emotional connection layin' around, and for some reason, that was alot easier to give in to than somehow finding 60K to go buy a car. It wold seem that money, a tangible item, is much easier to hold in place than emotional currency.

 

Of course, I COULD just go for a test drive on the BMW, see what it's like, have a 20 minute fling with the road just to feel what that engine feels like, to feel the rush I'd get from driving that baby down the road, and thinking, well, I know there can't be anything long term cause I can't afford it, but I'll see what it feels like, just for a little while. Then, lo and behold, I didn't MEAN to, but I'm having so much fun on the test drive, that I crash the car by accident. Woops! They might have insurance, but there's also a good chance they'll just sue me for the money for the car instead, and maybe I'll even injure myself in the crash.

 

There are risks you take in everything you do. When I met MM, I thought I could have a brief fling, just to see what it would feel like. I NEVER thought it would go this far or this long, I NEVER thought in my life I'd be involved with a married guy, and one day I realize....i was enjoying him so much I didn't realize just how deep in i'd gotten. I crashed into that insane wreck called love, and now Im paying for it big time, even though it's hitting my emotional bank-account like you wouldn't believe. Me and him didn't just meet one day and decide to start this thing. We worked together, we liked each other for a long time, and one night after a few beers we kissed. That kiss, as many kisses have done over time for many people, opened a flood gate that neither of us expected.

 

It was on and off torment for nearly two years, then his son was born at around the same time his wife nearly found out about us, and he told me that she had told him they had alot they needed to discuss about their marriage, and I let it go. I let them alone, I didnt call him, didnt beg him to stay, nothing. A year later, we missed each other and found our way back to each other, platonically at first, and then full force physical again.

 

I dont know what to do anymore, i really dont. NC for over a year didn't work, and the only reason it lasted that long was because I was dating someone else that I really liked so I wasn't as tempted to call MM. Whenever I'm single, i find it near impossible not to call him.

 

We can all be on this board and throw out opinions and morals all we want, but at the end of the day, many situations are similiar, but no two are exactly alike, and we don't know what's going on, we can only speculate. I guess that's what these boards are for....but just please remember that saying people should just suck it up and ignore someone who they're madly in love with, cannot even be fathomably compared to ignoring the urge to go buy a 60 thousand dollar vehicle that they can't afford. That's all.

 

I really need to learn how to write more succint posts, they seem to go on and on! sorry! :-) Im sleep deprived....argh

 

This post sums up what's really wrong with your perception about the impact of your affair on innocent parties not privy to your indiscrestions. Say, instead of some forgetable salesman or faceless corporation's car you wrecked, you totalled a vintage sportscar that your father lovingly and painstakingly restored. Could you be as cavalier about the consequences of taking his car and roaring off haphazardly down the road under these circumstances? The fact that you aren't perceiving or empathizing with the depth of pain and despair emoted by the BS and her family allows you the luxury of doing as you please without remorse or self recrimination which speaks loudly about the darker side of your character.

 

You also posted earlier that when you met MM you were already involved with someone who, on paper, seemed like the ideal candidate for a long and lasting relationship. You also stated that, though you loved him, you were not "in love" with him and that with your MM you have the freedom of being yourself without the constraints of the "hum drum" that comes with living day to day in a committed relationship even though you recognize faults within his character as well.

 

The way I see it your biggest problem is not the affair (problematic as it is) but the type of person that you are and the life cirmcustances you find yourself in. Your workload, schoolload, professional aspirations, overly empathetic tendency to get involved with your patients, and need for companionship gives me the impression of a type-A personality compulsively driven to extremes to please and perform with a "Mother Theresa" complex who's using an illicit affair to balance the scales as a means for an outlet due to all the frustration that comes from always giving too much. I believe this is why you rejected your former paramour in favor of an affair with your MM which isn't really working for you else why would you be posting on LS? By your own admission your therapy sessions typically condense into a rant to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah away the time yet still leaves you empty with no resolution in sight because you fail to focus on the real issues driving your dysfunction.

 

Your biggest fear is saying NO and knowing when to LET GO! This goes for MM and everyone else around you clawing and scratching for your time and attention. Until you achieve balance in your life so that you have ample time for you your situation is destined to stagnate or, worse yet, lead you down to darker paths in life as you search for an outlet for your stress. All it takes is one hit of the pipe and someone like you is HOOKED for, to quote Nietzsche, "those who chase monsters must take care not to become one for when one stares into the abyss the abyss stares right back" (paraphrasing)!

[Al_Bundy]

wow just wow. Again the real person comes the surface. The only one I see hurling insults is you. People are rying to show you the truth to the pain you will be causing and you don't want to see it. You hide from it because you know it's true so you lash out with insults and screams of bitterness as your real personality comes through not this nice person you are trying to prove you are.

 

NF, be careful, very careful;)

[marlena]

You won't feel badly about the BS or her children until you step out of the temporary insanity that is now clouding your thinking. Then, it will hit you like a ton of bricks and you will see with glaring clarity that this man was not worth the pain you caused other human beings .... including yourself.

 

I didn't read the entire thread so I guess the "you" above means anyone having an affair. Just to clarify that I wasn't referring to anyone specifically.

[Al_Bundy]

You won't feel badly about the BS or her children until you step out of the temporary insanity that is now clouding your thinking. Then, it will hit you like a ton of bricks and you will see with glaring clarity that this man was not worth the pain you caused other human beings .... including yourself.

 

I'd say that is great insight, and no doubt would affect lots of OM/OW.

 

But there are some here, as evidenced by this thread, that wouldn't care who they hurt because they think they have no responsibility to do the decent thing. Other people don't matter. Only thing that matters with most of them is their "needs".

 

I have a "need" to drink wine, but I'm not going to steal it from someone else to get it.

[Lookingforward]

An OW or OM cannot conduct an affair on their own.....it's the WS that is causing pain to the BS and kids (if any)...I fail to see why there is all the animosity towards the OW/OM refusing to shoulder that burden of responsibility.

[whichwayisup]

An OW or OM cannot conduct an affair on their own.....it's the WS that is causing pain to the BS and kids (if any)...I fail to see why there is all the animosity towards the OW/OM refusing to shoulder that burden of responsibility.

 

Uhh, the OM/OW is the affair partner, so they are helping WS cheat and betray. An OW/OM have to be accountable for their choices and actions when in an affair, they certainly can't put all the blame on the MM/MW either. Everyone has their part, except for the BS - The BS is only responsible for the some of the problems IN the marriage, not the affair itself.

[GreenEyedLady]

And he is also a cheater. What a catch!

 

He is quite a catch...

 

Thanks for being concerned.

 

The best thing about my honey is he realizes what he has done and couldn't live a lie or hurt people anymore.

 

So nice try. Could care less what you think. Just wanted to clarify for others.

[GreenEyedLady]

In your case, your MM's W was in #1

 

Where do you think you might fall under once you marry your MM?

 

The responsibility of children rests with both PARENTS. But should the MP choose the OP, what role do you think OP will play in the children's lives?

 

Huh? Incompatibility? To what?

 

Wrong again! His XW was in DENIAL. You missed that one.

 

And where will I fall? *rolls eyes*

 

Not anywhere on your list.

 

I already know what my role is. Step-mom. But maybe that's what pissed you off the most.

 

Cmon on now, I'd think that someone as astute as you would realize incompatibility with your spouse. Maybe one the reasons some people stray and get divorced is that they are incompatible with their spouse. Ya think?

 

I must have struck a nerve with you. You pulled out the "big guns" with your response.

[NewSunrise]

Wrong again! His XW was in DENIAL. You missed that one.

 

And where will I fall? *rolls eyes*

 

Not anywhere on your list.

 

I already know what my role is. Step-mom. But maybe that's what pissed you off the most.

 

Cmon on now, I'd think that someone as astute as you would realize incompatibility with your spouse. Maybe one the reasons some people stray and get divorced is that they are incompatible with their spouse. Ya think?

 

I must have struck a nerve with you. You pulled out the "big guns" with your response.

Nope. I think we all struck a nerve with you.:laugh:

[NoIDidn't]

This post sums up what's really wrong with your perception about the impact of your affair on innocent parties not privy to your indiscrestions. Say, instead of some forgetable salesman or faceless corporation's car you wrecked, you totalled a vintage sportscar that your father lovingly and painstakingly restored. Could you be as cavalier about the consequences of taking his car and roaring off haphazardly down the road under these circumstances? The fact that you aren't perceiving or empathizing with the depth of pain and despair emoted by the BS and her family allows you the luxury of doing as you please without remorse or self recrimination which speaks loudly about the darker side of your character.

 

You also posted earlier that when you met MM you were already involved with someone who, on paper, seemed like the ideal candidate for a long and lasting relationship. You also stated that, though you loved him, you were not "in love" with him and that with your MM you have the freedom of being yourself without the constraints of the "hum drum" that comes with living day to day in a committed relationship even though you recognize faults within his character as well.

 

The way I see it your biggest problem is not the affair (problematic as it is) but the type of person that you are and the life cirmcustances you find yourself in. Your workload, schoolload, professional aspirations, overly empathetic tendency to get involved with your patients, and need for companionship gives me the impression of a type-A personality compulsively driven to extremes to please and perform with a "Mother Theresa" complex who's using an illicit affair to balance the scales as a means for an outlet due to all the frustration that comes from always giving too much. I believe this is why you rejected your former paramour in favor of an affair with your MM which isn't really working for you else why would you be posting on LS? By your own admission your therapy sessions typically condense into a rant to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah away the time yet still leaves you empty with no resolution in sight because you fail to focus on the real issues driving your dysfunction.

 

Your biggest fear is saying NO and knowing when to LET GO! This goes for MM and everyone else around you clawing and scratching for your time and attention. Until you achieve balance in your life so that you have ample time for you your situation is destined to stagnate or, worse yet, lead you down to darker paths in life as you search for an outlet for your stress. All it takes is one hit of the pipe and someone like you is HOOKED for, to quote Nietzsche, "those who chase monsters must take care not to become one for when one stares into the abyss the abyss stares right back" (paraphrasing)!

 

It took a while for me to read it, but I agree with it. I just don't think that LG is in a place to be honest with herself. When backed into a corner by something that resembles the truth, she rants without ever considering thoughtfully what was actually said.

[Eve]

I already know what my role is. Step-mom. But maybe that's what pissed you off the most.

 

I dont really want to get involved in any 'personal storylines' because I am thoroughly enjoying the pyschological insight being put forward by persons who are assessing possible personality/behavioural traits. BUT with a high element of caution I would like to clarify if you are stating that you consider yourself to be a Step-Parent to the children of the person who you are having an affair with? - as is suggested in the above quote. If I have mis-read your post, I apologise in advance. If I have read your post correctly, I am interested only in the concept I see being disclosed. Firstly, I must admit that I dont think that such a disclosure is very appropriate in this thread. Personally I dont read any of the other posts on this section because I have no interest in the subject matter I see being disclosured there. In essence, this thread has been interesting because it goes beyond, 'dont do it'.. and subsequent cries of 'I am doing it and I dont care'. I find this entanglement altogether boring and will not engage in any responses from you in such a manner. I am asking really to clarify whether you actually see the children involved on a regular basis and how this has come about. I am also interested in how the children behave whilst around you, their ages and whether they actually know about the affair... I am making quite a few assumptions here. Mainly that the MM is still married but is now living with you whilst getting divorced and planning to marry you. Is this correct?

 

Thank you.

[DealingWDrama]

I never talk against the W.. except when I see them in person (lol.. one of them has a horse face)... I don't know them personally.. and I don't really care about them..

 

Do I hurt them.. not at all.. I think I help them.. they don't like sex.. I do.. their H gets what they want and they're happy..

 

As the wife, I have to say you are crazy if you think they are not having sex with their wives too.

[Terminator]

As the wife, I have to say you are crazy if you think they are not having sex with their wives too.

 

As Lizzie doesn't want them for herself exclusively, that probably doesn't concern her and as Owl would say Lizz isn't your typical OW.

[Terminator]

She certainly makes a point to continually say she just "knows" her MM aren't lying to her when they say they aren't getting any at home. I think Owl and I have effectively pointed out why that's not necessarily true.

 

But she is not "invested" in whether it's true or not, that's the main difference as I see it.