Empathy for BS?

[amarie]

I admit, I have not read all the threads here. But, the ones that I have read seem to be devoid of the OM/OW showing any empathy for their contribution in hurting the unsuspecting betrayed spouse.

I also see many OP's characterizing the BS or the WS's marriage as involving either an abusive or extremely deficient BS. Yet, the source of information for this characterization is , most times, second hand, coming from the WS, a pesron that has shown a great capacity for dishonesty.

I'm struck bu the naivety(sp?) of OP's that simply accept the information from the Ws as true. I am also struck by the focus merely on the OP's discomfort and turmoil without remorse for having hurt the BS and kids if there are any.

Why is that?

 

I can't speak for all OPs but my situation is quite different. I'm the OW. It's a situation that is very difficult to explain to someone unless they've been in it before. Where most BS go wrong is assuming the cheater is only out for sex. The OP has no obligation to the BS as they did not enter into any agreements or vows with them. We do feel some remorse e.g. when the BS sent me the email explaining how she was affected by the A, I actually broke down and cried and even tried to break it off with MM. But if he was not concerned about her feelings then who am i to think about hers? Bottom line is people only do what you allow them to do. BS allow their H/W to cheat so they do... Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's true...

[Adunaphel]

I admit, I have not read all the threads here. But, the ones that I have read seem to be devoid of the OM/OW showing any empathy for their contribution in hurting the unsuspecting betrayed spouse.

 

It is very possible that some posters *do* feel bad, but do not feel like mentioning it in the particular thread they started for a number of reasons.

 

I would probably mention that I do feel bad for MM's W if I started a "I am unconfortable being in an A" kind of thread, but I would not mention it if I were to post a "MM is not replying to my emails" one. In the first case it would be more on topic, in the other one it would not consitute a rilevant piece of information and it might increase the possibility of getting replies that have little to do with the specific problem I posted about.

 

I also see many OP's characterizing the BS or the WS's marriage as involving either an abusive or extremely deficient BS. Yet, the source of information for this characterization is , most times, second hand, coming from the WS, a pesron that has shown a great capacity for dishonesty.

I'm struck bu the naivety(sp?) of OP's that simply accept the information from the Ws as true.

 

One can just hope that the information are accepted with a grain of salt... and supported with evidence when provided by MM.

 

I am also struck by the focus merely on the OP's discomfort and turmoil without remorse for having hurt the BS and kids if there are any.

Why is that?

 

Because people tend to focus on themselves when they are hurting.

When you are in an A and happy, feeling bad (and guilty) about MM's W is much more natural.

[noforgiveness]

:laugh: I love when peoples real personalities come out. You went from having some empathy and I'm sorry I just can't help who I fell in love with to blaming her for believing his lies and not knowing the truth to taking zero ressponsibility by saying I'm single I can see whoever I want it is mm. Sheesh yes denial. You KNOW it is wrong but sigh you just can't control yourself but hey that is not your fault now is it? It is everyone elses.

 

You have no intention of taking him away from her? Oh how noble how virtuous. Dear everytime he is with you, sleeping with you, talking to you you are pulling him away from his wife and children but it feels so good right?

 

Oh please it is not bitterness that angers me about your situation. It is your outright living your daily life in a lie and being in denial about it blaming everyone else. It's wrong you know it's wrong but you just don't care. Immediate gratification!! YAY!!! and we wonder why this country is in the shape it is in. No one takes responsibility for their own actions.

 

If you think a stranger from the internet is judging you you just wait till this comes out and everyone knows how long you have carried this on and how she feels and confronts you. But hey you'll win. She will throw the cheater out and you will get your prize. You just won't like it much in the end. He has no integrity whatsoever.

 

It's her fault hmmm you mean the woman who asked for answers, who tried for the truth and was lied too. Yep the marriage is her fault too as she goes along cluelessly wondering what her husband is thinking as his mind wanders to his list little F&^& with you. Gosh she needs to be a mindreader.

[LostGirl811]

:laugh: I love when peoples real personalities come out. You went from having some empathy and I'm sorry I just can't help who I fell in love with to blaming her for believing his lies and not knowing the truth to taking zero ressponsibility by saying I'm single I can see whoever I want it is mm. Sheesh yes denial. You KNOW it is wrong but sigh you just can't control yourself but hey that is not your fault now is it? It is everyone elses.

 

You have no intention of taking him away from her? Oh how noble how virtuous. Dear everytime he is with you, sleeping with you, talking to you you are pulling him away from his wife and children but it feels so good right?

 

Oh please it is not bitterness that angers me about your situation. It is your outright living your daily life in a lie and being in denial about it blaming everyone else. It's wrong you know it's wrong but you just don't care. Immediate gratification!! YAY!!! and we wonder why this country is in the shape it is in. No one takes responsibility for their own actions.

 

If you think a stranger from the internet is judging you you just wait till this comes out and everyone knows how long you have carried this on and how she feels and confronts you. But hey you'll win. She will throw the cheater out and you will get your prize. You just won't like it much in the end. He has no integrity whatsoever.

 

It's her fault hmmm you mean the woman who asked for answers, who tried for the truth and was lied too. Yep the marriage is her fault too as she goes along cluelessly wondering what her husband is thinking as his mind wanders to his list little F&^& with you. Gosh she needs to be a mindreader.

 

I didnt say the marriage is her fault, i said the marital problems are of concern to both of them and are ingrained in both of them. If you'd bothered to read the post, you'd see I never once put all the blame on her, I said the blame sits with EVERYONE involved, probably mostly MM to be honest, but there is some blame to everyone. You can't blame only one person for a marriage's strain. They had problems before I came along. You know even less about their marriage than I do, so Im not really worried about your judgement, or anyone else's for that matter.

 

I doubt she'll throw him out. This A will end in one of three ways, Im pretty sure:

 

-she finds out again, he freaks out that she's gonan divorce him and tke the kids, and tells me he can't see me anymore

-i find someone nice and single, and i tell him it's over

-i finally hit rockbottom in frustration over this situation and go back to NC just like I did once before. Maybe I'll even be able to stick to it this time.

 

to be honest, this argument with you has gotten off topic from the original poster's question, and you're obviously very bitter and could care less what anyone has to say that is an OW/OM. if you feel the need to badmouth us, you can go to the infidelity boards. This is a place for people to get support in a difficult situation, because believe it or not- and here's the shocker- most OW//OM's HATE the fact that they are in an A, and they don't know how to get out of it, and that's why they are here on a board for support to hope they find a way to resolve things without also emotionally crumbling into nothingness along the way. So please, let's just end this discussion here....your bitterness just exudes like i don't even know what in your posts.

 

Cheers.

[noforgiveness]

I didnt say the marriage is her fault, i said the marital problems are of concern to both of them and are ingrained in both of them. If you'd bothered to read the post, you'd see I never once put all the blame on her, I said the blame sits with EVERYONE involved, probably mostly MM to be honest, but there is some blame to everyone. You can't blame only one person for a marriage's strain. They had problems before I came along. You know even less about their marriage than I do, so Im not really worried about your judgement, or anyone else's for that matter.

 

I doubt she'll throw him out. This A will end in one of three ways, Im pretty sure:

 

-she finds out again, he freaks out that she's gonan divorce him and tke the kids, and tells me he can't see me anymore

-i find someone nice and single, and i tell him it's over

-i finally hit rockbottom in frustration over this situation and go back to NC just like I did once before. Maybe I'll even be able to stick to it this time.

 

to be honest, this argument with you has gotten off topic from the original poster's question, and you're obviously very bitter and could care less what anyone has to say that is an OW/OM. if you feel the need to badmouth us, you can go to the infidelity boards. This is a place for people to get support in a difficult situation, because believe it or not- and here's the shocker- most OW//OM's HATE the fact that they are in an A, and they don't know how to get out of it, and that's why they are here on a board for support to hope they find a way to resolve things without also emotionally crumbling into nothingness along the way. So please, let's just end this discussion here....your bitterness just exudes like i don't even know what in your posts.

 

Cheers.

 

It's very simple for you to get out of. Stop being in denial and acting like you are stuck in this situation. Tell her the truth. Behonest with yourself and your life. This is no way to live for four years.

 

I did care what the ow had to say. I was honetly hoping to read that they had a little empathy and compassion for their fellow human beings but no I just read excuses and how it is not their fault. Very sad. Very very sad and truly a state of denial.

[noforgiveness]

I didnt say the marriage is her fault, i said the marital problems are of concern to both of them and are ingrained in both of them. If you'd bothered to read the post, you'd see I never once put all the blame on her, I said the blame sits with EVERYONE involved, probably mostly MM to be honest, but there is some blame to everyone. You can't blame only one person for a marriage's strain. They had problems before I came along. You know even less about their marriage than I do, so Im not really worried about your judgement, or anyone else's for that matter.

 

I doubt she'll throw him out. This A will end in one of three ways, Im pretty sure:

 

-she finds out again, he freaks out that she's gonan divorce him and tke the kids, and tells me he can't see me anymore

-i find someone nice and single, and i tell him it's over

-i finally hit rockbottom in frustration over this situation and go back to NC just like I did once before. Maybe I'll even be able to stick to it this time.

 

to be honest, this argument with you has gotten off topic from the original poster's question, and you're obviously very bitter and could care less what anyone has to say that is an OW/OM. if you feel the need to badmouth us, you can go to the infidelity boards. This is a place for people to get support in a difficult situation, because believe it or not- and here's the shocker- most OW//OM's HATE the fact that they are in an A, and they don't know how to get out of it, and that's why they are here on a board for support to hope they find a way to resolve things without also emotionally crumbling into nothingness along the way. So please, let's just end this discussion here....your bitterness just exudes like i don't even know what in your posts.

 

Cheers.

 

Oh and it is not bitterness you are reading. It is the truth of your situation and I'm sure that hurts so you read it as bitterness. You don't want to face the truth so in your mind you have to excuse it as oh she's just bitter she's been hurt before. DENIAL.

[Owl]

I just know because they have no reason to lie to me.. I don't want them.. and they know that.. it's clear from the start.. plus we discuss their sex life.. etc... one of them is very satisfied with his W actually.. so they are 'honest' with me.. no reason not to be.

 

Has it ever crossed your mind that they're not lying for you...they're lying for themselves?

 

They have to rationalize cheating on their wives with you somehow...ESPECIALLY to themselves. They tell that lie to make themselves feel better about going over and knocking one out with you...whether you believe it or not, whether you care or not about it...is irrelevent as long as they're getting what they want from you, and they can find a way to make it "ok" in their own minds.

 

They're not trying to justify it to you when they say that they're not getting any at home...they're trying to justify it to THEMSELVES more than anything else.

[NewSunrise]

Let me repeat

People engaged in A often claim they never expected, that it just happened. The process of the A in its early stages have been compared to having a drug addiction.

 

When in A, the narcisstic personality emerges where they show no empathy for anyone but themselves. The constant need of getting their fix (sex, text, phone calls, emails, etc) takes priority over family and children. Some are even willing to compromise or risk their jobs and reputation.

Symptoms of the narcisstic personality IS denial. People engaged in an A, blame everyone else. MM/MW blames their spouse and loveless marriage. It's the "self-entitlement" syndrome.

 

So because the MP is miserably married and the OP is equally miserable in their own world, it's a "perfect" combination of self-indulgence of the unconscienceable minds of two people seeking only one thing---personal and sexual gratification.

 

What also emerges is the OPs suddenly gained "exceptional" knowledge of the BS and the miserable M including their MP sex life, positions, ways, etct with their BS. OPs come acrosss sounding like "experts" of their MP's M and spouse including the MPs. Many OPs go as far as to believe or "trust" that if MP choose them over the BS, the MP would never cheat on them because they know them to be "honest" and trutful.

 

As long as OPs are miserable at being alone, they will continue to allow themselves in game of deceit.

As the drug or A wears off and reality sets in (A is discovered/confessed by/to BS) the fix required for OPs and MPs' A to be maintained become slowly controlled and minimized due to outside influence. In some instances, a sudden sprinkle of dust of soul searching injects their conscience. Like detoxing a drug addict, NC is the medicine of choice.

 

Then the "withdrawal" kicks in and all hell breaks lose. The state of minds of both OPs and MPs are torn apart and so are the lives of those they've affected. For some, remorse sets in. Others live in denial. Some survive. Some become better individuals, partners and spouses. While others become emotionally unrepairable. For them, relapses can kick in at anytime. Like drug addicts who won't get help or willing to kick the habit, the cycle of A starts all over again.

Lostgirl is deeply addicted to the drugs of the A.

[LostGirl811]

Let me repeat

 

Symptoms of the narcisstic personality IS denial. People engaged in an A, blame everyone else. MM/MW blames their spouse and loveless marriage. It's the "self-entitlement" syndrome.

 

So because the MP is miserably married and the OP is equally miserable in their own world, it's a "perfect" combination of self-indulgence of the unconscienceable minds of two people seeking only one thing---personal and sexual gratification.

 

What also emerges is the OPs suddenly gained "exceptional" knowledge of the BS and the miserable M including their MP sex life, positions, ways, etct with their BS. OPs come acrosss sounding like "experts" of their MP's M and spouse including the MPs. Many OPs go as far as to believe or "trust" that if MP choose them over the BS, the MP would never cheat on them because they know them to be "honest" and trutful.

 

As long as OPs are miserable at being alone, they will continue to allow themselves in game of deceit.

 

Lostgirl is deeply addicted to the drugs of the A.

 

 

Yeah guys, no news there. Thanks for the addiction cyle lesson, but I happen to work in healthcare and specialize in drug-addicted patients so Im very aware of it

 

You know that song , Addicted, by Kelly Clarkson? Go download it, it's a lovely song, and not one of her more popular ones, but I found it quite expressed my relationship quite aptly in that he is an addiction of sorts.

 

I may be tormented, act like an idiot sometimes, and yadda yadda, but Im also very perceptive. A horrible combination, actually, beccause despite knowing what Im doing and knowing whats bad for me, I just go and do it anyway.

 

Maybe I would have been better off if I were a drug addict. Alas, never had much of an addictive personality, strangely , for anything in my life except this one man. Odd, isn't it.

 

You know, Im not trying to make excuses, but when you're so unhappy with alot in your life, it is very difficult to let go of something that gives you even momentary happiness. Even my bloody job depresses the hell out of me. Christ, I just finished with one of my patients who I've watched waste away from cancer before my eyes, only to tell me his 17 year old son was shot and killed last weekend. Try listening to that every day and working and going to school 15 hours a day and having terrible insomnia and barely having time for friends or family and then tell me how easy it is to let go of one person that brings you remote happiness. me and him squeeze each other in , an hour here, and hour there, on his way to work in the morning, on my way home in the afternoon. It ain't much, but it's something, and as with many things that are addictive, damn hard to let go of no matter how bad you know it may be...

[noforgiveness]

Does he really bring you happiness though? In the moment I'm sure but truely your situation can not make you happy. It has to depress the hell out of you to be in love with someone who goes home with someone else. You are in denial if you think this man brings you happy. you probably spend the majority of the time torn up over this.

 

I can not imagine the upheaval your life will be in when his wife finds out.

 

I'm sure it's difficult to make friends when you are hiding a very big part of your life.

[noforgiveness]

Let me repeat

 

Symptoms of the narcisstic personality IS denial. People engaged in an A, blame everyone else. MM/MW blames their spouse and loveless marriage. It's the "self-entitlement" syndrome.

 

So because the MP is miserably married and the OP is equally miserable in their own world, it's a "perfect" combination of self-indulgence of the unconscienceable minds of two people seeking only one thing---personal and sexual gratification.

 

What also emerges is the OPs suddenly gained "exceptional" knowledge of the BS and the miserable M including their MP sex life, positions, ways, etct with their BS. OPs come acrosss sounding like "experts" of their MP's M and spouse including the MPs. Many OPs go as far as to believe or "trust" that if MP choose them over the BS, the MP would never cheat on them because they know them to be "honest" and trutful.

 

As long as OPs are miserable at being alone, they will continue to allow themselves in game of deceit.

 

Lostgirl is deeply addicted to the drugs of the A.

Great insight newsunrise.

[Eve]

I'm struck bu the naivety(sp?) of OP's that simply accept the information from the Ws as true. I am also struck by the focus merely on the OP's discomfort and turmoil without remorse for having hurt the BS and kids if there are any.

Why is that?

 

Personally I see the main issue as being a lack of respect for marraige - relationships are just relationships. Most OPs I have come across have very simular personality traits also. I find a lot of the women have been a sole child, or wished they had been so. Self obsessed, few friendships, an attraction towards secrets and binding others within secrets. I have noted a compulsion to objectify issues also instead of emotionally exploring them - for example not accepting that they are creating a situation whereby the married person will be emotionally detached from his or her children and partner because of their presence. I dont know, maybe its the old issue of not being able to delay gratification? This seems to underlie most human dysfunction or detachment.

 

Personally, I cant understand why (from the OPs point of view) there should be such a big deal about waiting for a marraige to end if the 'love' is real. Surely, it would be better to have the person to yourself? Or are OPS simply a lot easier to bed without clarifying such knowledge? I have been misled by someone who told me that his relationship was over when really it wasnt. I was so angry! I certainly would not of continued to see him after knowing with certainty that he was still with his partner! That would have been wrong.. obviously..

 

Conversely,if a marraige is over then set the other person free and get on with what you are doing. Noone has the right to hold another person in a false marraige whilst they shag someone else... because, well, they want to. Bad karma if you ask me. I dont have any respect for OPs, I would never have one as a friend. I just see them as weak, selfish, untrustworthy and most definately poor parenting material.

[Agent_99]

It's very simple for you to get out of. Stop being in denial and acting like you are stuck in this situation. Tell her the truth. Behonest with yourself and your life. This is no way to live for four years.

 

I did care what the ow had to say. I was honetly hoping to read that they had a little empathy and compassion for their fellow human beings but no I just read excuses and how it is not their fault. Very sad. Very very sad and truly a state of denial.

 

Here's the thing. I think that the way this thread started seemed like an attack from the beginning, although not neccassarily from OP. So that many OW who may or may not have empathy for the BS just plain don't want to post.

 

Believe me that there are times that my heart aches at my part of BS's betrayal. Having been a BS I understand the deep sense of betrayal, hurt, and loss. But that one thing is just a factor in the A, not the whole issue for me. Part of my trouble empathizing now is that i have lost respect for her after everything that has gone on. And sadly so has half the town after what she pulled on me. BS and I are very very different people. I have a harder time empathizing when I don't understand how someone thinks and emotes.

 

When I was the BS, it wasn't even so cut and dried, I understood that my H had feelings for his OW and that SHE had feelings for him. It took a lot of work on my part to unravel everything to that I could understand and forgive. Some people don't have that in them, or what's left of the relationship isn't worth it for them.

 

As to the A and why I stay in it despite the fact that it hurts all three of us. The honest answer is that I love her, and spending time with her makes me happier than I've known in a very long time. I'm not going to go into all those things on this thread though because once again it's not as simple as the statment I wrote.

 

~99

[Eve]

Symptoms of the narcisstic personality IS denial. People engaged in an A, blame everyone else. MM/MW blames their spouse and loveless marriage. It's the "self-entitlement" syndrome.

 

So because the MP is miserably married and the OP is equally miserable in their own world, it's a "perfect" combination of self-indulgence of the unconscienceable minds of two people seeking only one thing---personal and sexual gratification.

 

What also emerges is the OPs suddenly gained "exceptional" knowledge of the BS and the miserable M including their MP sex life, positions, ways, etct with their BS. OPs come acrosss sounding like "experts" of their MP's M and spouse including the MPs. Many OPs go as far as to believe or "trust" that if MP choose them over the BS, the MP would never cheat on them because they know them to be "honest" and trutful.

 

As long as OPs are miserable at being alone, they will continue to allow themselves in game of deceit.

 

Well said.

[Reggie]

I agree that from what I've seen posted as reasons for not feeling empathy or guilt smacks of NPD or BPD. It may be just a temporary manifestation of narcissistic traits, not full blown NPD. But, infidelity is rampant among the personality disordered.

Thing is, when trying to debate or argue with a truly disordered person, as in trying to convince someone that engaging in an affair is wrong, you'll get extremely frustrated. Your arguments simply do not register as a disordered persons reality is just so different.

In dealing with my XWW on this issue of infidelity, I could make no progress. Any points I would make were simply dismissed.

Liz, for example, sees nothing wrong with what she is doing. So, when you point out the damage she may be doing to others you make no impression. That is something she is not concerned with. You cannot change someone's fundamental world view by talking to them. Their logic is not your logic.

To a rational person, an OP's logic seems absurd. But, their logic is not irrational. It is simply based on fundamentally different values. They can acknowledge that the BS has been hurt and did nothing to deserve this, sometimes, but their response to having this pointed out is along the lines of "Yes, so what, what is your point?"

Other's seem aware of the pain they cause and do feel bad about it. But, they seem to feel as if they are powerless and engaging in this behavior is not a choice. Seems sad to me to admit to being so helpless, so out of control such that it compromises one's values. The addiction analogy seems to fit.

This is going to sound arrogant,and it may be, but I've met quite a few people that have cheated on their spouses. Some are successful financially or in other ways, such as athletics. But, they all seem to be missing something, like they have not figured out what life is about very well. I like some of these people but they need to be reincarnated or something a few more times.

[noforgiveness]

missing something, like they have not figured out what life is about very well. I like some of these people but they need to be reincarnated or something a few more times.

 

:laugh: Love it.

[LostGirl811]

:laugh: Love it.

 

even i'll admit that was kinda funny. i'd like to be reincarnated as a hydra, maybe. They're cute under a microscope, chem em out. Live my life peacefully sitting at the bottom of the ocean, filter feeding and asexually reproducing by budding off offspring. Ahhhhh bliss.

[NewSunrise]

I agree that from what I've seen posted as reasons for not feeling empathy or guilt smacks of NPD or BPD. It may be just a temporary manifestation of narcissistic traits, not full blown NPD. But, infidelity is rampant among the personality disordered.

Thing is, when trying to debate or argue with a truly disordered person, as in trying to convince someone that engaging in an affair is wrong, you'll get extremely frustrated. Your arguments simply do not register as a disordered persons reality is just so different.

In dealing with my XWW on this issue of infidelity, I could make no progress. Any points I would make were simply dismissed.

Liz, for example, sees nothing wrong with what she is doing. So, when you point out the damage she may be doing to others you make no impression. That is something she is not concerned with. You cannot change someone's fundamental world view by talking to them. Their logic is not your logic.

To a rational person, an OP's logic seems absurd. But, their logic is not irrational. It is simply based on fundamentally different values. They can acknowledge that the BS has been hurt and did nothing to deserve this, sometimes, but their response to having this pointed out is along the lines of "Yes, so what, what is your point?"

Other's seem aware of the pain they cause and do feel bad about it. But, they seem to feel as if they are powerless and engaging in this behavior is not a choice. Seems sad to me to admit to being so helpless, so out of control such that it compromises one's values. The addiction analogy seems to fit.

This is going to sound arrogant,and it may be, but I've met quite a few people that have cheated on their spouses. Some are successful financially or in other ways, such as athletics. But, they all seem to be missing something, like they have not figured out what life is about very well. I like some of these people but they need to be reincarnated or something a few more times.

Precisely!

some of these people but they need to be reincarnated or something a few more times

As in detox or rehabilitation centers. Unfortunately, they have to hit rock bottom first where the risk is evaluated. Love for BS/family vs. love for OP. For the OP, it's a choice between love for self or love for MP.

[Reggie]

One of the things that prevents them from bottoming out right away seems to be how successful or attractive they are. In my XWW's case, she is remarkably good looking. Some of the guys I know that cheat are rich, good looking , good athletes etc. So, they land on their feet and don't ever grow in this area, at least not yet.

My ex is pushing 40 and has 3 small kids in tow. She looks good, but not like a 25 year old, and she has lots of baggage, now. Her family all still like me and I play golf with her dad and brothers and uncles. Her mom and dad have me over for breakfast each Saturday. Her affair partner is banned from ever setting foot in her relatives homes. Two of my young daughters like the guy. The middle daughter , the one attached to me at the hip the most, hates him. Don't think she banked on this fallout.

I have no desire to reunite as she is a true NPD and I'm pretty happy about being out. I miss the kids, though.

[Terminator]

I admit, I have not read all the threads here. But, the ones that I have read seem to be devoid of the OM/OW showing any empathy for their contribution in hurting the unsuspecting betrayed spouse.

I also see many OP's characterizing the BS or the WS's marriage as involving either an abusive or extremely deficient BS. Yet, the source of information for this characterization is , most times, second hand, coming from the WS, a pesron that has shown a great capacity for dishonesty.

I'm struck bu the naivety(sp?) of OP's that simply accept the information from the Ws as true. I am also struck by the focus merely on the OP's discomfort and turmoil without remorse for having hurt the BS and kids if there are any.

Why is that?

 

fwiw, I think the word you were looking for was contrition, not empathy.

[Reggie]

Yeah, contrition works, as well. But, it's not so much remorse, but an inability to even understand that it causes pain. It's like some OP's have never even considered this aspect.

[NewSunrise]

Yeah guys, no news there. Thanks for the addiction cyle lesson, but I happen to work in healthcare and specialize in drug-addicted patients so Im very aware of it

Really? Hmmmm...

You know that song , Addicted, by Kelly Clarkson

Nope. Do you know the song "Crazy?"

I may be tormented, act like an idiot sometimes, and yadda yadda, but Im also very perceptive. A horrible combination, actually, beccause despite knowing what Im doing and knowing whats bad for me, I just go and do it anyway.

Perfectly human to act like an idiot sometimes. You know smoking is bad for anybody. But people do it anyway. And do you know why people do it anyway? Because they are "addicted" to the nicotine drug.

Maybe I would have been better off if I were a drug addict. Alas, never had much of an addictive personality, strangely , for anything in my life except this one man. Odd, isn't it

Well, as a health professional, you would know then that some process is required to kick an addictive personality? And as a health professional, people with any sort of addicative personality would require one to look into the cause? And once the cause is somewhat identified, some sort of "therapy" or prescription would be implemented followed by some form of "maintenance?"

 

Lostgirl, you may have just indentified the possible cause of your state of mind and WHY you are where you are in your life:

but when you're so unhappy with alot in your life, it is very difficult to let go of something that gives you even momentary happiness.

If your best friend expressed the above, what would you say or do?

[Owl]

Yeah, contrition works, as well. But, it's not so much remorse, but an inability to even understand that it causes pain. It's like some OP's have never even considered this aspect.

 

There are some who are convinced that affairs are beneficial for marriages.

 

The thing is, you can't make someone feel something that they're not capable of feeling.

 

All you can do at the end of the day is to demonstrate as much empathy for others as YOU can. Whether or not they can reciprocate isn't something you can do anything about.

[twice_shy]

With all due respect....she's found out enough clues, twice, to make any woman with a semblance of intelligence know that her husband was up to no good with some other woman. the last time she chose to respond by demanding to know what was going on

 

Ah, so she is stupid now? Too bad for her if she is that stupid right? I guess with this mindset we know how easy it is for you to be with a MM.

 

 

 

She chooses to be in denial, that isn't my fault.

 

Whatever works for you.

 

 

I dont understand this insistence that some people have that the BS should automatically be notified of an affair.

 

Notified or not, the BS deserves to know. Or is the BS undeserving?

Oh wait, we already know how you feel there.

 

 

I know that when you are on the outside of a situation, or looking back retrospectively on yourself as a BS, you might be feeling bitter for being betrayed, but can you honestly say that someone is better off knowing everything?

 

Yes, and I'd have been better off if I knew everything sooner rather than years later. years of my life I'll never get back.

 

 

If someone intends to cheat on someone for the entire duration of their marriage, then perhaps the BS should know so they can make their own decision to leave. But I do honestly believe that in cases where it is a temporary thing, or even a one time fling, admitting this to the BS does nothing but assuage the guilt of the MM or MW, because now everything is "off their chest" and they technically aren't holding onto a secret anymore.

 

Cheaters that get away with cheating once will cheat again if the perfect opportunity arises where they think they will not get caught.

 

 

 

But all it does is make the BS feel betrayed, and in many cases never able to trust the MM/MW person again.

 

Not if the BS kicks the WS to the curb in favor of a better life.

 

 

Trust takes years and lifetimes to build, but only two seconds to destroy, sometimes forever. What's worse: to know your spouse cheated on you once/for a brief period and to spend the rest of your life in anxiety and depression, always wondering if they are doing it again everytime they get home late from the office,or get stuck in traffic , or go out with a friend, everytime they are away or late coming home that day you'll be wondering "are they with a OW/OM again?" that's an awful way to live.

 

Thats why I divorced her. And again, if people that knew had the guts to help me out and tell me in the early stages of the M, they'd have saved my life and I could have done better with all the lost years. Again, years I'll never get back.

 

 

 

I think , in certain cases when its a temporary A, at least, that the BS is better off not knowing. Disagree all you want, but ignorance is bliss to the person that is in ignorance. It doesn't seem like bliss to you when you are morally contemplating the situation, but if you were the BS and you never knew it, you couldn't really have it ruin your life.

 

Being on the BS side, I'd say that is wrong. Because a cheater likes the excitement of being with someone new, then the "old" spouse doesn't spark much affection for them. As opposed to a spouse that truly loves the other.

 

 

On the other hand, if you found out about, it COULD ruin your life. You can't be depressed or upset about something that you don't know ever existed.

 

As an xBS, I beg to differ as stated above.

 

 

So, if a person cheats for the duration of the marriage, i guarantee you that the BS will find out on his or her own regardless of whether their spouse tells them anything

 

You are right there. But again, it is a matter of finding out sooner rather than later and a BS could have not wasted, say, 10 years of their life on a truly worthless individual.

[twice_shy]

Blah blah blah Just another way of assuaging your guilt. She's stupid. She should know. She is in denial. NO she faced this head on and asked her husband. She wanted the truth and you both lied right to her and then continued on your way. This woman is wasting the best years of her life wondering what is wrong. Why her husband is distant and she can not figure it out. YOU lied directly to her about what you were doing with her husband yet she is stupid???? Maybe she trusts her husband because he is so loving and treats her so well and sex is frequent that she wouldn't imagine he would go outside the marriage. Maybe she thinks you are an upstanding citizen with some shred of decency that wouldn't lie to her when asked directly if something was going on. Maybe she thought you had some sense of moral right and wrong and some spark of compassion for a fellow woman.

 

She's in denial????? No you are in denial. He is married. When faced with a confrontation with his wife and the opportunity to be honest and say he loves you he chose HIS WIFE. He chose to lie about you and his feelings for you. You are in denial. Your boyfriend goes home to another woman every night and YOU are aware of this, his wife IS NOT because of your lies. What really makes me sick is he started a FAMILY while in an affair with you. Now this woman is stuck with this cheating slime in her life for the rest of their life because they have children together. Such a shame she didn't learn what the real man her husband is was doing behind her back before they chose to have a family. Talk about affecting the destiny of someones life with no say so from them.

 

Grow a concious and tell her so she can find someone who will really love her and her family not someone giving half his heart.

 

Very well said.