Empathy for BS?

[twice_shy]

*sigh*

 

It's a very lonely life to go through it so angrily and never forgiving anyone, isn't it?

 

Obviously someone betrayed you at some point, but that's no reason to start yelling. I'm not sleeping with your husband, so don't take it so personally. MM's the one with the obligations here, not me.

 

 

Read my first reply to the original poster. I predicted this is exactly what you'd say as someone that sleeps with someone elses spouse.

 

Very predictable.

[twice_shy]

It's very simple for you to get out of. .

 

Not for her. She is waiting for someone "nice" to come along. She needs that crutch.

 

And if someone "nice" came along, how happy you think he'd be with her knowing she sleeps with married men? I don't know too many good men that would sit well with.

[Lizzie60]

Has it ever crossed your mind that they're not lying for you...they're lying for themselves?

 

They have to rationalize cheating on their wives with you somehow...ESPECIALLY to themselves. They tell that lie to make themselves feel better about going over and knocking one out with you...whether you believe it or not, whether you care or not about it...is irrelevent as long as they're getting what they want from you, and they can find a way to make it "ok" in their own minds.

 

They're not trying to justify it to you when they say that they're not getting any at home...they're trying to justify it to THEMSELVES more than anything else.

 

 

Has it ever crossed your mind that they might not be lying to me?

 

Let me repeat.. they don't all have sex problems or any problems at home.. for example.. one just left a few minutes ago.. we talked about his wife and kids.. they have no more problems.. they had for a little while.. but apparently all is back to normal.. I guess he just wants more sex..

[Owl]

Has it ever crossed your mind that they might not be lying to me?

 

Let me repeat.. they don't all have sex problems or any problems at home.. for example.. one just left a few minutes ago.. we talked about his wife and kids.. they have no more problems.. they had for a little while.. but apparently all is back to normal.. I guess he just wants more sex..

 

That I believe. And I can believe that he was telling you the truth.

 

And I can believe that SOME of them MIGHT be telling you the truth when they do say that there are problems at home, or their not "getting enough". But I also believe that this is one of the most common LIES that a man will tell to get a woman in bed...and to justify what he's doing for himself as well.

 

I also believe that if you asked his WIFE if your 'services' were helpful to the marriage, I'm not sure she'd feel that way about the whole deal. I'm thinking she'd probably rather his money were spent elsewhere.

[Owl]

Hey...I got a GREAT idea, Lizzie!!!

 

We could prove or disprove the whole "good for the marriage" thing once and for all!!!

 

All you've got to do is mail out a customer satisfaction survey to each of these guys!!!

 

Have a section on there for input from their wives as well!

 

Then you'd have all the proof right there in black and white for us!

 

I think its a great idea...thoughts? :bunny::bunny:

[LostGirl811]

Not for her. She is waiting for someone "nice" to come along. She needs that crutch.

 

And if someone "nice" came along, how happy you think he'd be with her knowing she sleeps with married men? I don't know too many good men that would sit well with.

 

Ok, you know, since I've come to this site, there have been a few people that have said some really introspective things, and have been able to give me constructive advice to make me think without insulting me.

 

Then there are the bitter BS's, or the egotistical and lost OW/OM's, oth of which don't contribute anything but start arguments.

 

These last two categories really ruin this board. I understand that people here have been hurt, but that is no reason to insult and hurt people you don't even know when they come here looking for friendly insight and support. People like JJ on another thread gave me very firm advice against what I was doing, but did it in a way that made me want to consider what they said rather than making me defensive.

 

Plenty of men like me just fine, the problem is that I never like any of them. And FYI, just like I don't divulge every other secret of my life on the first date, I don't usually go around parading my affair on dates with new men because it isn't any of their bloody business. It isn't who I am as a person.

 

Who am I? Im a kind person, a future physician, a caring person, a great friend, I've saved someone's life before, I've gone out of my way to help others, and yes I have my faults.

 

I'm done here. I came to get advice and now it's just become argumentative bull and its giving me a headache. Have a nice day everyone.

[stampdaddy]

question: what the hell is the significance of that little jumping bunny???

[Lizzie60]

Hey...I got a GREAT idea, Lizzie!!!

 

We could prove or disprove the whole "good for the marriage" thing once and for all!!!

 

All you've got to do is mail out a customer satisfaction survey to each of these guys!!!

 

Have a section on there for input from their wives as well!

 

Then you'd have all the proof right there in black and white for us!

 

I think its a great idea...thoughts? :bunny::bunny:

 

I said it before and I will repeat.. not all truths are good to tell..

 

in this case, I think it's wrong.. I would never ever hurt the Ws... why would I.. that would be crual...

 

I do them good.. and they think it comes from THEM..

[NewSunrise]

Hey...I got a GREAT idea, Lizzie!!!

 

We could prove or disprove the whole "good for the marriage" thing once and for all!!!

 

All you've got to do is mail out a customer satisfaction survey to each of these guys!!!

 

Have a section on there for input from their wives as well!

 

Then you'd have all the proof right there in black and white for us!

 

I think its a great idea...thoughts? :bunny::bunny:

:laugh:! Love it! What a great idea!:bunny:

 

Hey, can you add frequent flier miles just for filling out the survey??!!!

 

And double the miles just for the wives??:laugh:

[Owl]

I said it before and I will repeat.. not all truths are good to tell..

 

in this case, I think it's wrong.. I would never ever hurt the Ws... why would I.. that would be crual...

 

I do them good.. and they think it comes from THEM..

 

 

Again Lizzie...you confuse the act of telling as the source of pain with the actual act of cheating as the TRUE source of pain.

 

They're already hurt...they just don't know it yet.

 

If you called them and told them you were boffing their husbands...would they be angry and hurt at your for calling? Or for boinking their husbands????

 

That's how you can tell where the SOURCE of the pain is.

[Owl]

Again...if its GOOD for their marriage...why wouldn't they THANK you for the 'services rendered'???

 

Deep down, I think you know better...you just rationalize your 'second profession' in your own mind this way.

 

Just like the guys who come to you rationalize their part by saying its the wife's fault for not giving them enough.

 

Its the SAME thing.

[NewSunrise]

It's a shame we lost LostGirl. It would have been interesting to hear how she would've answered my question to her statement:

but when you're so unhappy with alot in your life, it is very difficult to let go of something that gives you even momentary happiness.

The question was, "If your best friend expressed the above, what would you say or do?"

 

You know LS can be so addicting?!! Lordy! I gotta go NC sometimes just so I can get some work done!!!!!!

[LostGirl811]

It's a shame we lost LostGirl. It would have been interesting to hear how she would've answered my question to her statement:

 

The question was, "If your best friend expressed the above, what would you say or do?"

 

You know LS can be so addicting?!! Lordy! I gotta go NC sometimes just so I can get some work done!!!!!!

 

Oh bother, I keep getting emails from LS telling me this has been updated and like a great set of boobs or a car accident I cannot help but look. But since you're nice about it and not a total ass, I can respond to you.

 

That said, if my friend said it to me, I'd tell her the same thing I tell myself, "stop being an emotional masochist and tell him you can't see him anymore"

 

Alas, as the old adage goes, so much easier said than done.....Im not in denial here guys, I swear. I know its bad, i know its not gonna go anywhere, but hell, most of my patients know that smoking crack is bad, or shotting crap into their veins is bad, but they do it anyway for reasons that could take up ten million pages. Same goes for this I suppose.

 

Did that answer your query my dear?

[Lizzie60]

Again...if its GOOD for their marriage...why wouldn't they THANK you for the 'services rendered'???

 

Deep down, I think you know better...you just rationalize your 'second profession' in your own mind this way.

 

Just like the guys who come to you rationalize their part by saying its the wife's fault for not giving them enough.

 

Its the SAME thing.

 

Come on now.. don't be ridiculous..

[NewSunrise]

Oh bother, I keep getting emails from LS telling me this has been updated and like a great set of boobs or a car accident I cannot help but look. But since you're nice about it and not a total ass, I can respond to you.

 

That said, if my friend said it to me, I'd tell her the same thing I tell myself, "stop being an emotional masochist and tell him you can't see him anymore"

 

Alas, as the old adage goes, so much easier said than done.....Im not in denial here guys, I swear. I know its bad, i know its not gonna go anywhere, but hell, most of my patients know that smoking crack is bad, or shotting crap into their veins is bad, but they do it anyway for reasons that could take up ten million pages. Same goes for this I suppose.

 

Did that answer your query my dear?

A great set of boobs or a car accident is like getting poked in the eye with a needle.

 

So, now what?

 

Are you going to stick with the same agenda or revise it?

[LostGirl811]

A great set of boobs or a car accident is like getting poked in the eye with a needle.

 

So, now what?

 

Are you going to stick with the same agenda or revise it?

 

 

yeaaaaah, i wish i knew. see, right now , despite wishing he was here so i could rip his clothes off and attack him, i make grandiose plans in my head to tell him off, even to just ignore him, whatever, but then I get an email, a text, or worse, an in-person surprise visit and voila, my brain turns to mush and i forget every damn thing i wanted to say as he says "hey gorgeous" and just stands there and hugs me for like 10 minutes without saying another word. You have no idea how gooood that feels after a 15 hour day! *sigh* only time will tell I suppose. I won't see him or hear from him the rest of the weekend, we tend to not speak when he's home for obvious reasons, but i suppose i can make a lame attempt at not speaking to him or initiating contact, i just have a sneaky suspicion he'll try to get in touch with me by at least tuesday....bastardo!

 

Is it obvious that I feel mildly sleep-deprived/delirious right now? yeah. i spilled concentrated sulfuric acid on myself in the lab today by accident, boy was that fun. It has a weird delayed reaction, in case you've never had the pleasure. You sort of look at it on your hand for a sec, and then a few seconds into it, BURN!!!!!!!. And somehow, Im still not sure it was as painful as this bollocks I put myself through. Yup.

[Reggie]

Lost, it does sound masochistic. Tried any counseling? This **** must suck.

[NewSunrise]

yeaaaaah, i wish i knew. see, right now , despite wishing he was here so i could rip his clothes off and attack him, i make grandiose plans in my head to tell him off, even to just ignore him, whatever, but then I get an email, a text, or worse, an in-person surprise visit and voila, my brain turns to mush and i forget every damn thing i wanted to say as he says "hey gorgeous" and just stands there and hugs me for like 10 minutes without saying another word. You have no idea how gooood that feels after a 15 hour day! *sigh* only time will tell I suppose. I won't see him or hear from him the rest of the weekend, we tend to not speak when he's home for obvious reasons, but i suppose i can make a lame attempt at not speaking to him or initiating contact, i just have a sneaky suspicion he'll try to get in touch with me by at least tuesday....bastardo!.

So, no revision. SSDD until you decide to get off the joy ride.

[LostGirl811]

Lost, it does sound masochistic. Tried any counseling? This **** must suck.

 

Dude....you have no idea. This sh*t sucks like you wouldn't believe. And yeah, I go to a therapist once a week. I'm a frustrating patient to have, in that since Im actually a therapist myself, I kind of know what he's trying to do sometimes and yet often have difficulty applying it to myself. It's still nice to vent to someone who has to listen to me no matter how frustrating I am because he's getting paid for it tho In a way, he's told me that if I can handle the fact that it's not going anywhere and just enjoy it for what it is, that maybe the A could work for me for now, until I am ready for a full relationship, because to be honest, my schedule does suck balls. I work full time in a real job, and at the same time decided to go back to school, am applying to medical school next year, am applying for a visa to go live in England for a year in between, I sleep like 3 hours a night, it's just a busy time in my life, which is probably why I don't get more frustrated by the fact that MM can only see me an hour here, and hour there, because frankly, I dont have terribly much more time to give him either. It's almost a blessing that he leaves after an hour or two, cause otherwise instead of studying the four hours of crap I need to read, I'd be staying up all night shagging him senseless. I mean hell, I usually fit in at least three or four rounds into the hour and a half he's here ;-) the poor man can barely walk when I'm done with him most days. tee hee. my sex drive has never been lacking, at least that's always consistant! No matter how tired or pissed off I am, I'll always fit ina quickie. Hell, it's relaxing. If more people had sex regularly, the world might be a more relaxed place. But I digress.

 

I know no one here is going to believe me at all when I say this becaue I've sounded like some bloody nut sometimes, but I am SO not the girl that falls in love with someone within two weeks of meeting them and gets all head over heels obsessive. Im generally very level headed and rational and independent, and sometimes even to a fault. I mean, I dated this guy for four years and it took me nearly a year before I'd even call him my boyfriend. The guy worshipped the ground I walked on, would have been a fantastic husband and father, NEVER would have cheated on me. He wanted to move in with me, marry me, everything. I was like...uh, no, because while I loved him, I was not IN love with him and this is an important distinction for me. I was still dating him when I met MM, as MM was my boss at my first job out of college, and the difference in the spark I felt between the two was night and day.

 

I've dated many men, I've liked alot of them, I've cared for many of them, and I've cried over the break ups with ones I genuinly enjoyed being with.

 

But this.....this has always felt different for me, and is perhaps why it is so, so very hard for me to throw it away no matter how much pain it is causing me on a daily basis.

 

insert bouncing bunny to keep readers interested--> :bunny:

 

:::prepare for corny paragraph of cliches::::

 

Seriously though, how do you explain this feeling? Sometimes Im not sure any words I can come up with are sufficient. For the first time in my life I met someone who can still make me feel excited to see him after four years, even though at the same time I feel so comfortable with him that I can act like a total idiot, say whatever I want, act like a crazy nut and he still thinks Im cute in spite of it. He's pissed me off, said stupid things, he's shown me sides of him that aggravate me to no end, and I love him not in spite of it, but because of all of it, both good and bad aspects of him. When we worked together, we actually weren't sleeping together. It was stolen kisses and fooling around in the office. Sometimes he would just pull me into the copy room to hug me and bury his face in my neck and just breathe me in. Obviously, the sex is a fabulous portion of this whole thing , and for better or worse it becomes more amazing as the time goes , but that isn't all of it. I have days when I feel like crap, when Im bloated and have my period, when I've forgotten to shave my legs or am too tired to put make up on, when I would be otherwise wary to be with a guy, I can just lay there with him and stroke each other's faces, kiss and sigh as he plays with my hair and we idly chat about things going on with us in life. When I think about him, I imagine all the things that could go wrong, the fights we might have, the stresses we might go through, and somehow it all seems like it would be worth it if I thought I'd be able to wake up when Im 70 years old and see his old, wrinkled 78 year old face looking back at me. By the time Im 70 i'd like to think im still an active woman, but let's face it, we wouldnt be having crazy sex from the chandeliers four times in a row like we do now, but I'd still look at him and feel that passionate contentment that I feel now. I've seen it in couples, rarely. When one person looks at the other one, and there is a connection where you can put your face up against theirs and for a moment the rest of the world doesn't exist.

 

I don't just love him, I'm in love him, and I hope to god that i find someone else that can make me feel this way or Im gonna be in trroooooouble....

[LostGirl811]

So, no revision. SSDD until you decide to get off the joy ride.

 

 

what the hell is SSDD mean?

[GreenEyedLady]

I admit, I have not read all the threads here. But, the ones that I have read seem to be devoid of the OM/OW showing any empathy for their contribution in hurting the unsuspecting betrayed spouse.

I also see many OP's characterizing the BS or the WS's marriage as involving either an abusive or extremely deficient BS. Yet, the source of information for this characterization is , most times, second hand, coming from the WS, a pesron that has shown a great capacity for dishonesty.

I'm struck bu the naivety(sp?) of OP's that simply accept the information from the Ws as true. I am also struck by the focus merely on the OP's discomfort and turmoil without remorse for having hurt the BS and kids if there are any.

Why is that?

 

So this is how the thread started...

 

And it suddenly became that OP's are devoid of empathy and suffering NPD?

 

Who diagnosed this? Saying that one of the symptoms is denial.

 

Pot meet kettle.

 

It seems that BS's often blame the OP and are in denial of what their spouse has really done. Is that NPD, too? Or does it only apply to people we want it to apply to?

 

People can be empathetic but still hurt someone. It's called being human. But I guess this thread is mainly meant for saints.

 

The fact of the matter is that OP's do care that the BS is hurt. OP's for the most part are not going to give up their R based on that alone. It will cause conflicting feelings and guilt, but it won't end the R.

 

OP's aren't martyr's. They are in the R for a reason. They love their partner and they'll stay in it, until they can't do it anymore or until their partner makes a choice.

 

GEL

[NewSunrise]

what the hell is SSDD mean?

Nicely put, Same Stuff Different Day OR Same Sh*t Different Day as many would say. I use both.

[NewSunrise]

So this is how the thread started...

 

And it suddenly became that OP's are devoid of empathy and suffering NPD?

 

Who diagnosed this? Saying that one of the symptoms is denial.

 

Pot meet kettle.

 

It seems that BS's often blame the OP and are in denial of what their spouse has really done. Is that NPD, too? Or does it only apply to people we want it to apply to?

 

People can be empathetic but still hurt someone. It's called being human. But I guess this thread is mainly meant for saints.

 

The fact of the matter is that OP's do care that the BS is hurt. OP's for the most part are not going to give up their R based on that alone. It will cause conflicting feelings and guilt, but it won't end the R.

 

OP's aren't martyr's. They are in the R for a reason. They love their partner and they'll stay in it, until they can't do it anymore or until their partner makes a choice.

 

GEL

If you're looking to point a finger, here's how it all got started. And if you reread, there is no diagnosing that OPs are NPD. Stages of affairers's emotional state are merely compared to that of NPD. You made that asessment.

Back to the real topic of WHY?

 

IMO, it boils down to the state of mind and self-worth of OPs and MPs and lack of skills to resolve coflicts in R or M.

 

On the extreme, psychologists term individual void of empathy as having a Narcisstic Personality Disorder.

 

People engaged in A often claim they never expected, that it just happened. The process of the A in its early stages have been compared to having a drug addiction.

 

When in A, the narcisstic personality emerges where they show no empathy for anyone but themselves. The constant need of getting their fix (sex, text, phone calls, emails, etc) takes priority over family and children. Some are even willing to compromise or risk their jobs and reputation.

 

As the drug or A wears off and reality sets in (A is discovered/confessed by/to BS) the fix required for OPs and MPs' A to be maintained become slowly controlled and minimized due to outside influence. In some instances, a sudden sprinkle of dust of soul searching injects their conscience. Like detoxing a drug addict, NC is the medicine of choice.

 

Then the "withdrawal" kicks in and all hell breaks lose. The state of minds of both OPs and MPs are torn apart and so are the lives of those they've affected. For some, remorse sets in. Others live in denial. Some survive. Some become better individuals, partners and spouses. While others become emotionally unrepairable. For them, relapses can kick in at anytime. Like drug addicts who won't get help or willing to kick the habit, the cycle of A starts all over again.

 

It seems that BS's often blame the OP and are in denial of what their spouse has really done. Is that NPD, too? Or does it only apply to people we want it to apply to?

I disagree. Most often, BS are just as much in denial as the OP over the systematic betrayal inflicted by the WS. As a former BS, I blamed the WS for his decision. WS' systematic cheating and lying is what killed the M.

Is that NPD, too? Or does it only apply to people we want it to apply to?

In relation to what?

People can be empathetic but still hurt someone. It's called being human. But I guess this thread is mainly meant for saints.

People/human are generally emphathetic. But empathy varies among individuals. More so in an A where the emotional stakes are much higher and even higher when there are huge financial risk and children. And if people are indeed generally "emphathetic" as you point, how is it that those who commit such acts do not have the ability to conscienseously put themselves in the shoes of those they are about to adversely affect when some form of guilty feelings kick in?

 

So in this topic, it comes down to lack of empathy for another human being, doesn't it? A sort of a narcisstic way of looking at their world. I think this answers your question:

Or does it only apply to people we want it to apply to?

 

OP's aren't martyr's. They are in the R for a reason. They love their partner and they'll stay in it, until they can't do it anymore or until their partner makes a choice.

OPs and MPs are usually in the A for a reason---to meet specific needs. That's why they call it an "affair". The R ends because the expectations are no longer being met. Much in the same way that WS expectations from the M were not being met by the BS. OPs expectations for more of MP grows as the A intensifies on the emotional aspects. Scope of the entire A immediately changes. Most OP want exclusive rights to the MM delivered via D or a role that closely resemble that of a spouse. The MP usually doesn't. That is why most OPs walk away.

 

BS loves their WS much in the same way that OPs love them. And they too walk away when they can no longer withstand their WS' lying and cheating. I finally kicked xWH to the curb.

 

MP who is stuck on themselves (narcisstic personality type) will find another OP while the BS remains in the M. Likewise, OP may find another MP perhaps because it suits their particular needs that a non-MP couldn't OR simply that they lack the empathy by repeatedly not being able to put themselves in the shoes of another human being.

 

There two things that get lost and easily dismissed in this process:

1. The BS expectations of the WS. Attention is yet to be given to this. BS are usually unaware of the A. The only guilt, if you even consider it, BS have is trusting their WS to be faithful and equally responsible. Yet, most OPs who posts, they automatically assume BS of stupidity, naivety or in denial for knowing and not doing anything about it. OP usually blame BS for their inability to fulfill their MP/WS' needs(usually referred to as unhappy and sexless marriage) which they are happily meeting and in return receive the same pleasure. In this scenario, human empathy for the BS is void no matter how you slice it.

 

2. The children. Both OP and MP must know the implications an A will bring. But are their welfare regarded in the first place? Usually not. They are prioritized along with the BS.

[mourningMM]

Look up all of my postings, start with the first, and you can see that it is possible for the BS to become the OW...and that an OW can have sympathy for a BS.

 

From first to last, my perspective is always

"can I look in the mirror"

"what does this mean for the kids"

"how can this help a person grow".

 

No one stays the same forever unless they are "stunted" or dead...and as long as people grow, they can CHOOSE to grow in a way that is healthy.

 

From my postings, you will see that my idea of healthy is one that requires everyone to take responsibility for their own actions, to live with (sometimes brutal) self-honesty, and to make choices with more than just oneself in mind.

 

Sometimes this means a marriage ends...sometimes it heals...

 

Honestly, I can only speak for one BS, myself and I know that the OW in my situation has to live a life that includes me because my children will only ever have one biological mother and one biological father. That co-parenting relationship is more important to my children than their father's second marriage.

 

And as a person who was an OW, well, I made the choice to have the affair when I understood he was married, and end the affair when he and I both realized that we had healed some wounds with eachother, and that his growth (and mine) would only continue if we ended the relationship.

 

I'll never know whether it would have continued to say ended if he'd lived; his death was soon after the affair ended. But I do know that I was glad my MM was in a place where he could look himself in the mirror and be proud that he was moving closer to his second wife and a healthier marriage before he died.

 

Note: I posted something recently and seemed to imply that marriage was not a good thing. Or second marriage was not a good thing....I was probably a bit muddy in that. My belief is that self-delusion about any portion of the impact of divorce on children is a VERY BAD THING FOR THE CHILDREN and for the PARENT who won't face the full extent of their behavior on the next generation. Because of my priorities, I really don't think the OW or the BS or the MM should really spend much time focused on themselves....I think if there are kids involved the only appropriate thing to focus on is the children. The adults involved in an affair are all culpable at some level (either concious or unconcious) but the children whose lives are completely disrupted by the affair are the very very sad victims of adult's choices.

[GreenEyedLady]

If you're looking to point a finger, here's how it all got started. And if you reread, there is no diagnosing that OPs are NPD. Stages of affairers's emotional state are merely compared to that of NPD. You made that asessment.

 

I disagree. Most often, BS are just as much in denial as the OP over the systematic betrayal inflicted by the WS. As a former BS, I blamed the WS for his decision.

 

And if people are indeed generally "emphathetic" as you point, how is it that those who commit such acts do not have the ability to conscienseously put themselves in the shoes of those they are about to adversely affect when some form of guilty feelings kick in?

 

OPs and MPs are usually in the A for a reason---to meet specific needs. That's why they call it an "affair". The R ends because the expectations are no longer being met. Much in the same way that WS expectations from the M were not being met by the BS. OPs expectations for more of MP grows as the A intensifies on the emotional aspects. Scope of the entire A immediately changes. Most OP want exclusive rights to the MM delivered via D or a role that closely resemble that of a spouse. The MP usually doesn't. That is why most OPs walk away.

 

2. The children. Both OP and MP must know the implications an A will bring. But are their welfare regarded in the first place? Usually not. They are prioritized along with the BS.

 

I don't need to reread. It was implied.

 

My point was that the BS is in denial. We agree there.

 

I think the next point is the one BS's don't get because they think of themselves and saving their M at all costs, hoping to sweep the OW out of their life. OW do put themselves in the BS's shoes (some have even been BS's) but THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY ARE GOING TO END THEIR R FOR THAT REASON. Example: having empathy for homeless people but not giving to a shelter or giving the homeless person a place to live, etc. OW have empathy for the BS, wish they weren't in the situation they are in, but are not going to say good bye BECAUSE of the BS.

 

And sometimes the R doesn't end. Sometimes the M does.

 

Your reasoning into why OP's are in the R is very simplistic. You have never been one so you don't understand. You don't take into account those who didn't know the other was married. I would also assume you've never been a WS, so you are relying on what you've been told by your H(X?) and read. Though we all know that as much as marital history is rewritten, the A history is often rewritten too.

 

And finally, the clincher. Children. Are we really going to expect the OP's to be responsible for the MP's children? It is the WS's responsibility. We are responsible for us and ours. Perhaps that is when you see a fundamental incompatibility when the way your spouse prioritizes your children differently than you. Doesn't even have to be an A. Maybe that's what it really boils down. Incompatibility. Some stick it out. Some hope to find someone with the same priorities and compatibility.