How to start from scratch in 12 mo separation ?

[Gunny376]

CB,let it go. You cannot argue your point among those that do know your reality?! That's why combat vets don't discuss their reality with non-combat vets? There's no common point of comparrission? There's no common reference point?

 

Its like a woman trying to describe childbirth to someone who's never given birth, describe sex to someone who's never had sex.

[SingleDad]

My thread has gotten way off topic here...

 

I have 11 more months of legal separation before a divorce can be filed. I want to make the most of them for myself, for my daughter, and if possible try to improve my relationship with my STBXW (be it save the marriage, go back to square one in dating and see where it goes, try to have working friendship for the benefit of my daughter, or be near enemies and have arguments weekly for the next 15 years trying to raise our daughter).

 

My STBXW moved less than 4 miles away so we could continue to be effective parents, she is willing to try to have a friendship as long as I do not have alterior motives like trying to push her to save the marriage - she does not want that pressure. I would need to be willing to work on a friendship with no expectation of it going any further. I want to do this. Regardless of whether or not she has a BF. Maybe I will have to compete for her friendship with another man. I won her over before and we have our daughter together - no one else has this position.

 

I would like advice on how to do this - How to start from scratch, avoid arguing, and re-learn how to enjoy each others' company (please responses in the forward direction only). I know The first thing I have to do is be comfortable with myself and learn to enjoy my own independent life.

 

Thanks, SingleDad

[Owl]

Fair enough...what you're asking for is the "carrot" of that plan A I'd discussed.

 

First off...stop arguing with her over petty things. Look at the things in yourself that you know are detrimental to the relationship between you and her. There is a lot of OTHER good information on that marriagebuilders site that you can apply. Concepts like the love bank, lovebusters, emotional needs...

 

Take a look at the emotional needs questionairre on that site. Fill it out trying to identify what HER top emotional needs are, and look for ways that you can start meeting them, given your current situation. Those ways may be limited right now because of the living circumstances, but there are still small things you can do.

 

Stop the "love busters". Angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements, etc... Look at the things that you know she sees as negative about you...find ways to minimize or negate what you can. Look for opportunities to SHOW her those changes.

 

Like I'd suggested how you could have handled the car incident the other day.

 

Start journaling EVERYTHING you do in your interactions with her. It'll help you TRACK what's successful and what isn't...and...it has the added benifit of keeping record on how she interacts with YOU. This can often be helpful later in court.

 

Read the book "The Five Love Languages" by Chapman. Figure out what your wife's "love languages" are...and start expressing love and caring to her in ways that mean something to her.

 

 

That's the "carrot" of plan A. The stick has more to do with pressure to end the affair, if there is one. If you find that there is, and you still want to do something about that...we can discuss the "stick" then if you like.

 

There's my suggestions...hope they help.

[HeatherAngel]

SD - I am in a similar situation to you, but - sadly (and it IS sad) - without children.

 

I realised yesterday that I don't even really know WHY my husband left. He just said he was unhappy and had been for 'years' -someone said it is common for the 'leaver' to rewrite their marital history to justify leaving - I think that there is an element of that here, though we have been unhappy, off and on, for a long time - and maybe he was unhappy far more than he was happy.

 

I don't really, REALLY know how to go about showing him that we can rebuild from scratch... I HOPE I can. SO - for your benefit and for getting this thread back on track, my friend, here's MY 'Plan A' thus far (which may inevitably change as time goes on and the circumstances change):

 

1. I will give him this period of NC as he requested, simply because he DID request it, and NOT giving it to him is indicative of a lack of respect; giving it is respectful of his wishes and a gesture of unconditional love.

 

2. I will wait until HE contacts ME, regardless of how much time goes by - this was part of our arrangement. Even if he backs out of the next part of our arrangement (to have contact, flirt, build again as per MY request), I will still give him what HE asked for - just because one person is doing the wrong thing does not mean that *I* have to.

 

3. When we ARE in contact again (and I sincerely hope we WILL be...) it will be pleasant, friendly and even fun. NO PRESSURE. I believe ANY discussion of 'the relationship' in early days of contact will only serve to put him on the defensive and push him away from me, which defeats the purpose of my endeavors.

 

4. Equally, there will be NO questions about other women - of any kind. I know I will struggle with this, but it MUST be this way - he will be expecting a barrage of questions; he will not get them.

 

5. I will NOT beg him to come home/love me/talk to me. Again - he will expect this, as this is how I was right up until he left. This behaviour (crying, begging, clinging, pleading) is disrespectful to both him, and myself.

 

6. I will ask for very little from him - not NOTHING. My requests will be thought out and reasonable. For example, if he asks me twice to come to him, I will ask him to once come to me, instead.

 

7. If he says he is going to do X - I will not question it, as this belittles his choices and makes him look on me as a critical person who does not respect his decisions as an individual in his own right.

 

The idea is to SHOW that I am changing, not TELL him I have changed. That's all just words now, and meaningless AT THIS POINT. Of course, to put all this into place, I do need to have communication with him, which at this time, as you know, I do not. It makes me sad to think I may not get to put these plans in place WITH HIM, but it doesn't mean I can't still put them in place to respect and like myself, and avoid having a similarly painful relationship with someone else in the future.

 

I am having quite a strong day today, so this all sounds reasonable and rational today... it may not last! LOL Of course, all of this is just MY plan - it may not be suitable for anyone else.

[Owl]

Guess I forgot something...

 

You also need to be doing things for YOU as well.

 

You need to be clearly showing that YOU are doing things to improve yourself, and to make yourself happy as well.

 

Go to the gym, dress nicer, etc...engage in an old hobby, start a new one.

 

A happy, outgoing person is far more attractive than one who seems to be going out of their way to simply please the other person...make sense?

[HeatherAngel]

Owl, I agree 100%. My post was simply an outline of my plan for the relationship, assuming we even have one.

 

On top of this, I am going to get out more, continue training for a marathon, join a couple of special interest clubs that I never did, and take an online course that interests me. I hope he'll enjoy knowing me more as a person who does those things, but if he doesn't, at least it shouldn't take away MY enjoyment of those things - the danger is in 'signing up' to do these things THINKING it will help my relationship... ummm... no. Just for me.

[Gunny376]

SD - I am in a similar situation to you, but - sadly (and it IS sad) - without children.

 

I realised yesterday that I don't even really know WHY my husband left. He just said he was unhappy and had been for 'years' -someone said it is common for the 'leaver' to rewrite their marital history to justify leaving - I think that there is an element of that here, though we have been unhappy, off and on, for a long time - and maybe he was unhappy far more than he was happy.

 

I don't really, REALLY know how to go about showing him that we can rebuild from scratch... I HOPE I can. SO - for your benefit and for getting this thread back on track, my friend, here's MY 'Plan A' thus far (which may inevitably change as time goes on and the circumstances change):

 

1. I will give him this period of NC as he requested, simply because he DID request it, and NOT giving it to him is indicative of a lack of respect; giving it is respectful of his wishes and a gesture of unconditional love.

 

2. I will wait until HE contacts ME, regardless of how much time goes by - this was part of our arrangement. Even if he backs out of the next part of our arrangement (to have contact, flirt, build again as per MY request), I will still give him what HE asked for - just because one person is doing the wrong thing does not mean that *I* have to.

 

3. When we ARE in contact again (and I sincerely hope we WILL be...) it will be pleasant, friendly and even fun. NO PRESSURE. I believe ANY discussion of 'the relationship' in early days of contact will only serve to put him on the defensive and push him away from me, which defeats the purpose of my endeavors.

 

4. Equally, there will be NO questions about other women - of any kind. I know I will struggle with this, but it MUST be this way - he will be expecting a barrage of questions; he will not get them.

 

5. I will NOT beg him to come home/love me/talk to me. Again - he will expect this, as this is how I was right up until he left. This behaviour (crying, begging, clinging, pleading) is disrespectful to both him, and myself.

 

6. I will ask for very little from him - not NOTHING. My requests will be thought out and reasonable. For example, if he asks me twice to come to him, I will ask him to once come to me, instead.

 

7. If he says he is going to do X - I will not question it, as this belittles his choices and makes him look on me as a critical person who does not respect his decisions as an individual in his own right.

 

The idea is to SHOW that I am changing, not TELL him I have changed. That's all just words now, and meaningless AT THIS POINT. Of course, to put all this into place, I do need to have communication with him, which at this time, as you know, I do not. It makes me sad to think I may not get to put these plans in place WITH HIM, but it doesn't mean I can't still put them in place to respect and like myself, and avoid having a similarly painful relationship with someone else in the future.

 

I am having quite a strong day today, so this all sounds reasonable and rational today... it may not last! LOL Of course, all of this is just MY plan - it may not be suitable for anyone else.

 

 

OOooooooRAAAAaaaaaHhhhhhh! That'll a Girl! You are Tha' Woman!

[Gunny376]

Owl, I agree 100%. My post was simply an outline of my plan for the relationship, assuming we even have one.

 

On top of this, I am going to get out more, continue training for a marathon, join a couple of special interest clubs that I never did, and take an online course that interests me. I hope he'll enjoy knowing me more as a person who does those things, but if he doesn't, at least it shouldn't take away MY enjoyment of those things - the danger is in 'signing up' to do these things THINKING it will help my relationship... ummm... no. Just for me.

 

 

ALL day strong!

 

That's what I'm talking about!

 

I hope others are taking notes!

[SingleDad]

Great information Owl and HeatherAngel.

 

I have "His wants, Her wants" about the love bank etc. I will read up more on marriagebuilders tips and I have to get the "the Five Love Languages" book...

 

Those are the tips that I need....

 

I have never been a quitter... I have told myself I will do everything I can do to save my marriage... If I do not do these things, then I really haven't done everything , have I ?

 

I have to "be the right person" for my STBXW for there to be a chance for us. Unfortunately, my STBXW will not change at all... she expects there to be someone out there who will meet her needs, and has determined that I am not the person for her.

 

I am not willing to merely accept that outcome... I am thinking of my daughter too. I was that person for her not more than a year ago.

 

Most people will tell me to let it go and that I should not have to change myself to meet another person's expectations... But I also do not want to be a SingleDad for 15 years... and frankly, I let my career and my ambition take control over me and have learned since the train wreck that I had become someone I never wanted to be... What is most important is my family together, my daughter and my wife in my life fully.

 

It is an uphill battle...

[SingleDad]

And yes, I will admit that my STBXW may sound very selfish - someone having to meet her needs... I think her divorcing me itself is selfish...

 

She needs space and time to heal, I understand that.

 

But end it like that after what I believe was less than 6 months of "worse" doesn't make sense to me. We made a committment to ourselves and a committment to our daughter.

 

So anyway I want to do my best to sacrifice and change myself to satisfy her needs...

 

Maybe I wasn't there for enough during our marriage, I was on autopilot... and did not realize how bad things were in her mind

 

Will I be happy with that outcome and the changes I make in my interactions with her ?... I am not sure... But I am sure the outcome from doing nothing is not what I want either.

 

As least If I try to make her happy, just maybe she will make me happy... I will not know for sure without trying.

[dead-dyke]

 

Most people will tell me to let it go and that I should not have to change myself to meet another person's expectations... But I also do not want to be a SingleDad for 15 years... and frankly, I let my career and my ambition take control over me and have learned since the train wreck that I had become someone I never wanted to be... What is most important is my family together, my daughter and my wife in my life fully.

 

It is an uphill battle...

 

 

I think, for what it's worth, that it is impossible, and ludicrous to 'let it go'. Your lives are genuinely intertwined to some extent, even w/ an unfavorable outcome. You can't. This is where I envied you. You have a connection, where when the dust settles, she (wife) is forced to observe the changes in yourself. If I quit everytime my wife got on my nerves, she'd be the one here.

[TrustInYourself]

A connection of pain and love forever. A sad reminder of a love that was supposed to last forever.

 

I love my child with all my heart. That will never change. I think of her and all she is losing out on due to her parents, I feel a deep sadness and loss.

 

That is the negative perspective. Guess my mood.

[SingleDad]

Same sentiments here... I think of my daughter and it gives me the strength to fight to keep the marriage and take it back from STBXW who stole that from me...

 

Hence the steps I want to take... but it will be a 12 month process of pain and eggshells, not knowing whether it can be salvaged.

 

Seems like I am the only one who wants to try to swim up the Niagara Falls and pray I don't drown.

[TrustInYourself]

Same sentiments here... I think of my daughter and it gives me the strength to fight to keep the marriage and take it back from STBXW who stole that from me...

 

Hence the steps I want to take... but it will be a 12 month process of pain and eggshells, not knowing whether it can be salvaged.

 

Seems like I am the only one who wants to try to swim up the Niagara Falls and pray I don't drown.

 

You are hardly the only one here who would do anything to save their marriage.

 

The only difference is that I've accepted that it's not up to me. I didn't make the decision to leave my marriage. My attempts to work on it are just going to reinforce her behavior.

 

"Oh look, he's trying now. All I had to do was leave him and move on emotionally. I like these results!"

 

I'm tired of validating those feelings. I'm not going to try to convince her of anything anymore. She needs to convince me that we can work things out.

 

I have my self-respect and self-love. If she doesn't respect me for being me, then we do not deserve to be together. Sick and tired of wasting my energy to "control" her thoughts, when I should just be focused on myself.

[Ladyjane14]

You are hardly the only one here who would do anything to save their marriage.

 

The only difference is that I've accepted that it's not up to me. I didn't make the decision to leave my marriage. My attempts to work on it are just going to reinforce her behavior.

 

"Oh look, he's trying now. All I had to do was leave him and move on emotionally. I like these results!"

 

I'm tired of validating those feelings. I'm not going to try to convince her of anything anymore. She needs to convince me that we can work things out.

 

I have my self-respect and self-love. If she doesn't respect me for being me, then we do not deserve to be together. Sick and tired of wasting my energy to "control" her thoughts, when I should just be focused on myself.

 

I have to agree with TIY 100%.

 

Now, I'm not saying that some of these reconciliation plans can't work wonders. But if you look closely at thing like "Divorce Busters" and "Marriage Builders", the very techniques which make you more appealing to your wayward mate... are designed to help you become more self-reliant too.

 

IOW, by working through them, you not only put your best foot forward, but you rediscover yourself as well. Needy people aren't attractive. Confident people ARE.

 

If you work your program without fully actualizing this aspect of it... ONE, it's not going to work. And TWO, you're left with nothing if things don't pan out.

 

I'm not going to try to dissuade you from your course, but you need to understand WHY it's so important to get command of your fears and get back in touch with the real YOU.

[SingleDad]

In my doing nothing, she will file the divorce for sure.

 

I Justt I'm not at your place just yet. I still have hope - or desperate hope. I know begging will just hurt the situation. I have to learn to be strong.

 

I have to learn to break through her emotional damage and learn how to build a friendship... a friendship that maybe we didn't have during marriage.

 

Still living in LC even mostly NC for now. But after I pay her next $50k setttlement in 3 weeks, she should know I'm not working on our friendship to avoid paying her off.

 

I have worked my ass off all of my life and I'm not willing to just let my family be taken away from me due to her hurt feelings and feeling that I don't know how to love her. That is not true... sure she is a pain in the A$$, but aren't all spouses once in a while ??

 

Not going to give up hope !!! (It is very quiet and lonely - that will also be hard )

[TrustInYourself]

SD, you know my situation. She offered me a chance to work it out. We spent time together frequently. She mentioned there was a chance that we could be happy together. She gave me hope.

 

Whenever I try and make a decision for us both she refuses to participate, actively "playing devil's advocate".

 

When we last spoke, I took her words of "I'm done." at face value. I don't care about all the confusing words said afterwards. I'm not going to try and figure out what she really means. Her actions show that she doesn't love me anymore.

 

Now, I question myself daily for not contacting her. For not working on it with her. For not rebuilding our love. It's feasible for me to do so every single day. She accepts me into her home and shows me love and I do the same. However, after everything I do to rebuild our marriage, in the end, she still doesn't come back to me. She still considers our marriage over and hopeless.

 

Now what do I do? What do I say?

 

My heart tells me to run to her and beg forgiveness, to plead for another chance, to prove my worth by waiting for her.

 

Emotions can not be trusted. She's following her emotions by going through with this. She's breaking up our family over her emotions. I have always been the one who was emotional, and now I'm going to let her follow her heart.

 

Why? Because I know if I really love her, and if she really loves me, she knows where to find me. I'm not hiding. I'm here.

 

So...why do I still feel this hurt. This desire to call and discuss things?

[SingleDad]

TIY - this is an endurance marathon. I am not suggesting that you call and beg and plead.

 

I am suggesting the way is to do it is the way my Ex wants it.... learn to become friends. You will have the same connection with STBXW as I do - a 2 yo daughter.

 

Yes - set you emotions aside. take any friendly interaction your can from STBXW.

 

I do not plan to call my STBXW for a while... but I am thinking in a month or so, when I have my daughter, invite my STBXW to go to dinner with us. See if she will want to do the the Labor Day fair together.... Little friendly family get togethers.

 

I have heard stories of legal separations lasting years, with neither spouse wanting to pull the D trigger and they have lingering doubts about what they really want.

 

You are not that disconnected from your Ex - you just had sex with her last week. I haven't been that close with my W since, well last year before this D started.

[dead-dyke]

See, the self actualization is brought about by finally getting tired of the BS. I think it's a decision not found in any self discipline, but rather a forced way to view reality, due to circumstances. TIY seems to be there, you're well on your way, and all without giving up. Sooner or later, the wife will have to fall to the wayside to save your sanity for your daughter. Fact is, it's already started. Takes time. It's such a slow process, you really don't feel it happening, then you realize, hey, I don't let my wife get to me anymore, and I'm all happy w/ my daughter. This is likely the point the wife starts to come around. IDK, it's just another theory being bandied around in my head. I'll shut up.

[dead-dyke]

I have to type faster.

[TrustInYourself]

I can't act like her husband, treat her like my wife, love her like my wife, and give my everything to someone who goes out and dates/sees other men.

 

I won't be used that way. Why would anyone want to be treated like that?

 

I would prefer to salvage my own personal sanity and forgive her and move forward with my own life.

 

It's not about giving up. It's about fighting the divorce by acceptance and growing from it. Not resisting reality and fighting my wife's desires and bending her to my will and to the way I feel.

[SingleDad]

I am believing that my marriage will be over if nothing changes...

 

The hard part is living as a SingleDad, raising my daughter on my 3 nights and not seeing her the other 4 nights each week for life. I have not been able to comprehend that that is the way life has to be...

 

... don't want to give up for that very reason... without our daughter and knowing I will be in contact with STBXW at least weekly for 15 years... believe me I would not have an ounce of hope or desire left in me. Seeing my daughter and thinking about it when I don't, gives me the desire to persevere and try to stick it out... accept that my marriage went through a war... and now I need to try to rebuild the base infrastructure - if nothing else than to be able to coordinate and work with each other in the raising of our daughter - switching parenting days, future homework, athletics, etc.

 

Rather do it as a full time family than volleying daughter back and forth between houses several times weekly for 15 more years. How good could that lifestyle be - doing it for 3 months now and it's very hard.

[TrustInYourself]

I am believing that my marriage will be over if nothing changes...

 

The hard part is living as a SingleDad, raising my daughter on my 3 nights and not seeing her the other 4 nights each week for life. I have not been able to comprehend that that is the way life has to be...

 

... don't want to give up for that very reason... without our daughter and knowing I will be in contact with STBXW at least weekly for 15 years... believe me I would not have an ounce of hope or desire left in me. Seeing my daughter and thinking about it when I don't, gives me the desire to persevere and try to stick it out... accept that my marriage went through a war... and now I need to try to rebuild the base infrastructure - if nothing else than to be able to coordinate and work with each other in the raising of our daughter - switching parenting days, future homework, athletics, etc.

 

Rather do it as a full time family than volleying daughter back and forth between houses several times weekly for 15 more years. How good could that lifestyle be - doing it for 3 months now and it's very hard.

 

I understand your feelings. I am haunted by the same thoughts. I am filled with the knowledge of how and what to do, but the situation I face doesn't allow me to practice what I have learned so late.

 

Yet, I take hope in knowing that at one point in my life I was a single man living life to the fullest without my wife. I take hope knowing that in time, I am responsible for making myself happy.

 

I still have my doubts and pain and hurt. Yet, I am facing these just as you are facing these feelings. Every day I embrace my fears and accept the truth, I grow stronger.

 

I see it in myself and I see it in you. Don't lose hope.

[TrustInYourself]

This is something on human nature. It's interesting to read.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t144110/?highlight=Successful+reconciliation

[SingleDad]

long post - I printed out the link and will add it to my list of self-help things to read.

 

Thanks, TIY