How to start from scratch in 12 mo separation ?

[Owl]

Honestly, I don't think you can.

 

Once your feelings cross into "love"...going back to "just friendship" is pretty much impossible for most people.

 

My wife too had every plan and intent to remain friends with me. She figured we'd all be a big happy group of friends once I "got over" her leaving me for OM.

 

I blew that nonsenese out of the water.

 

Frankly, I don't think that you're going to be able to do the "just friends" thing all that well. And honestly, I'm still betting she's got someone lined up, and she feels if this can work out with the two of you remaining as 'friends'...it mitigates the "wrongness" of her choice to leave you for someone else.

 

I'm not telling you to give up on your marriage, or "kick her to the curb". Not at all...I'm suggesting that you sit down, DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT...and then develop a plan for getting what you want.

 

Stop letting her have all the power. Decide what path YOU want, and take control of your life back and steer in the direction YOU want to go.

[Ladyjane14]

I can only think of two reasons why she wouldn't allow you to have her new address. ONE is that she's afraid of you. And TWO is that she doesn't want you to know who's coming and going at her new place.

 

I have to say, if it was me... I'd put a PI on her butt, find out what's what, and if I caught her cheating, I'd file adultery on her. In many states, you can still hasten the divorce process if you have grounds.

 

Bottom line, if I caught somebody "gaslighting" me to such an extreme extent... I wouldn't want them anymore. That's me, not you though.

[Owl]

LJ, I agree. Its that gaslighting that makes me suspect an OM in the picture. But I'm curious...what gaslighting did your H attempt during his affair? I know my wife tried a good amount...it didn't work, mind you...but she did try.

[dead-dyke]

Wow, I just read through this thread and I don't know if I should even post on this board because it seems like there is a lot of women-hating stuff being written (ex. the line about women's souls being created in hell, or some crap like that). Well, regardless, I am going to give you my opinion because I feel that someone here needs to play devil's advocate. I think a lot of people who have gone through sep/divorce are still hurt and angry and are going to tell you "kick the B to the curb" in so many words. But the truth is none of us know you or your wife personally or live your life. You obviously have your reasons for holding on to hope for your marriage (your child, being the first) and I respect you for that. Separations do not all have to end in divorce and I happen to agree with you that if you cut her off completely and play hard ball that you will most likely squash any chance to reconcile with her. I do believe you should not let her walk over you or be unfair (and I think it is completely wrong she did not immediately give you her new address!!). Right now her emotions are on high and it's not right or fair how she's treating you, especially since it sounds like you are really trying to be kind and civil towards her. The clothing issue is ridiculous ~ she is being petty, probably because she's angry and emotional. That's not fair to you or your daughter and I hope she will see that and change her behavior. The main thing I want to say is there seems to be a lot of negativity on this board towards any separation being capable of resulting in getting back together & I hope that you will look at your own situation and follow your heart. I also don't think that just because she hasn't given you her address it means she is seeing someone else. Yes, it's possible, but unless you have some sort of proof then who knows, she could have other reasons (again, no valid reason because you have every right to know where your child is living). You seem like a really good person who wants more than anything to save his marriage ~ don't let the naysayers convince you that it is hopeless. I wish more people here would post about separations that ultimately brought about a lasting reconciliation. It would give me some hope, too! Good luck!

 

I don't hate women. I'm just looking at the math, and without any concrete numbers, I have to say, it seems that 90% of the people that have, or are, going through this and trying to fix/stop their separation, or divorce are men. I have never once said, kick her to the curb, not that you accused me of such. I came here looking for positivity, just like you. And what I found left me rather hopeless, and also let me know that most people instigating their s/d are, in fact women. From what I've read, there aren't any real good reasons for walking away from your commitments, without a second look, or getting involved w/ another person behind the spouses back. After you walk away, to me, it is a betrayal of the 9th degree and cheating could drive someone insane, or worse.

 

I recognize there are men just as capable, and it happens. I mean, you found loveshack, right? I assume that's because you not willing to give up, like most of us. I'm w/ SD on this, that while still legally married, if you start banging other people, it is effectively cheating. I am also sure, you have been to other forums, read articles, looking for a fresh outlook, and finding pretty much the same thing we've all found. I believe, as well, that people that do reconcile do not frequent these boards anymore, but I can tell you this much. If things turned around for me, (and this week, I'm waiting to be served, as it were - and wondering why it is now Thursday, and wondering where she is w/ the papers) I would certainly come back and ask for luck from anyone, and I would wait a while before coming back to say it got worked out, because this didn't happen overnight, and neither would/should reconciliation. The emotional map is huge , and we are all navigating it. This forum has turned into a place to vent w/out taking anything out on the wrong people. So - I don't hate women. But my wife's actions, from my experience, makes her look like the devil incarnate.

[Ladyjane14]

LJ, I agree. Its that gaslighting that makes me suspect an OM in the picture. But I'm curious...what gaslighting did your H attempt during his affair? I know my wife tried a good amount...it didn't work, mind you...but she did try.

 

The usual "blame-shifting, the emphasis on MY faults, etc.

 

Frankly though, he was pretty blatant there towards the end, so I busted him before I took on too damage from it. Even so, in the reconciliation phase, I had quite a bit of sorting to do in terms of what was REALLY my fault and what was his. There was a temptation to let him justify himself without calling him into account.

 

Fact is, we DO feel a certain amount of guilt when we're betrayed or abandoned, because we know we weren't perfect. It's so easy for the wayward to "gaslight" because we're all primed and ready with guilt.

[SingleDad]

I would like to see two different subject forums:

 

One for "Preventing Divorce" i.e. steps to try to take to save a marriage - A positive hopeful forum.

 

and the second for "Surviving Divorce" - all of the gut wrenching truth about the probablity of and inevitable divorce.

 

Or even separate the forums into "Separation" vs. "Divorce" - as I do believe the actions and steps and feelings are different in the two legal actions.

 

I even feel that "Separation with Children" would have even more distinctive advice.

[TrustInYourself]

The only way to prevent divorce is to accept divorce.

 

The only way to deal with divorce is to accept divorce.

 

The only way towards reconciliation is to accept divorce.

 

Your actions have to reflect that you are a stronger, better, more independent person thanks to your wife. There should be no bitterness. No anger, no resentment. There should be acceptance and growth. Those are the hardest lessons to take away from a separation.

 

Private message me and we can talk. Hell you can call me if you want.

[TrustInYourself]

The usual "blame-shifting, the emphasis on MY faults, etc.

 

Frankly though, he was pretty blatant there towards the end, so I busted him before I took on too damage from it. Even so, in the reconciliation phase, I had quite a bit of sorting to do in terms of what was REALLY my fault and what was his. There was a temptation to let him justify himself without calling him into account.

 

Fact is, we DO feel a certain amount of guilt when we're betrayed or abandoned, because we know we weren't perfect. It's so easy for the wayward to "gaslight" because we're all primed and ready with guilt.

 

I'm sorry to hear it LJ. Your actions showed that you had the power to do some inflection and to accept of the situation as it was. Your wisdom and insight are always appreciated.

[HeatherAngel]

The only way to prevent divorce is to accept divorce.

 

The only way to deal with divorce is to accept divorce.

 

The only way towards reconciliation is to accept divorce.

 

Your actions have to reflect that you are a stronger, better, more independent person thanks to your wife. There should be no bitterness. No anger, no resentment. There should be acceptance and growth. Those are the hardest lessons to take away from a separation.

 

Private message me and we can talk. Hell you can call me if you want.

 

I'm struggling with acceptance, my friend. Surely if I ACCEPT that we are getting a divorce, I have 'given up' all hope of reconciliation??

 

I feel sick.

[Gunny376]

I would like to see two different subject forums:

 

One for "Preventing Divorce" i.e. steps to try to take to save a marriage - A positive hopeful forum.

 

and the second for "Surviving Divorce" - all of the gut wrenching truth about the probablity of and inevitable divorce.

 

Or even separate the forums into "Separation" vs. "Divorce" - as I do believe the actions and steps and feelings are different in the two legal actions.

 

I even feel that "Separation with Children" would have even more distinctive advice.

 

 

I agree. Although I'm single and not currently even in a relationship, this is what initially brought me to LS. Most cheaters though seem to be flakey to begin with, that and posses low self esteem, self control, self discipline, or cheat when they hit some low in thier life.

[TrustInYourself]

I'm struggling with acceptance, my friend. Surely if I ACCEPT that we are getting a divorce, I have 'given up' all hope of reconciliation??

 

I feel sick.

 

You're wrong Heather. There is always hope!

 

Accepting the situation is allowing yourself to heal and become the person that you were before the relationship. That is only going to draw your loved one back to you.

 

Divorce is not the end of life or even the relationship. There is hope in your marriage. There is always hope. Perhaps that is why the pain is so very real.

 

To encourage the flame of love and desire you have to accept the situation for yourself. Completely accept and let go.

 

That is the glory, power, and complete awesomeness of being in love. Do you all remember those feelings? Uncontrollable, passionate, all encompassing love?

 

It is an illusion to think that by showing our love or need or desire for someone that we can control the situation and force someone to love us. This feeling is only created by allowing that person to realize it themselves. Back off. Give them time to realize it for themselves.

 

There are steps to take to encourage this process, but acceptance is key. Best wishes and my thoughts are with you.

[HeatherAngel]

Well, I have been feeling very, very stupid since yesterday, and I still feel stupid. I am clearly NOT seeing this... and I want to - lord knows I want to.

 

I am scared - shaky and sickened by fear - and I suspect that if I could truly accept that this is over, I'd start to be okay... but I know nothing. Because he is not contacting me.

 

Every time the phone rings, or an email comes in... what is WRONG with me? GAH.

[SingleDad]

TIY and I have generally agreed on our viewpoints. But I do think TIY is really moving more toward acceptance of divorce than I am ready to.

 

I think what he means by "accepting a divorce" does not necessarily mean that reconciliation is not possible. It means realizing that you cannot deny that the actions are leading to divorce and you can't bury your head in the sand and belief it won't happen.

 

It's stepping back from it and taking control over your life and learn to enjoy quiet time with yourself. Take the time to repair and heal yourself. That way, one way or the other, you can accept the outcome.

 

Being a clingy demanding spouse will not bring them back. They have to see that you are strong and do not "need" them in your life. It needs to be more of a silent "want". Maybe then you spouse will see you in a better light and they could come back to you... or not. It wouldn't matter as you would have learned to deal with it one way or another.

 

- Yeah, I am the one to talk.... Having a great deal of difficulty doing it myself. but anyway, that's the concept.

 

Yet I also believe that complete NC and throwing in the towel will also lead to the inevitable... I think there is a right time to sit back and do nothing but build yourself up and a right time to work (silently) hard for what you want - HeatherAngel in your case July is following the first step and then the second step when communication returns.

[TrustInYourself]

Well, I have been feeling very, very stupid since yesterday, and I still feel stupid. I am clearly NOT seeing this... and I want to - lord knows I want to.

 

I am scared - shaky and sickened by fear - and I suspect that if I could truly accept that this is over, I'd start to be okay... but I know nothing. Because he is not contacting me.

 

Every time the phone rings, or an email comes in... what is WRONG with me? GAH.

 

You are not stupid, you are human, Heather.

 

I was the exact same way last night. I remember you telling me to be strong. Well I have the same advice for you! ((hug))

 

Deal with the emotions. Let them sink in. You are just going to grow from them.

 

Resist contact. That's the last thing you need right now. If you contact him, in your current state, you're going to regret it. You want him back? Give him space, respect his wishes. Best of luck!!

[TrustInYourself]

TIY and I have generally agreed on our viewpoints. But I do think TIY is really moving more toward acceptance of divorce than I am ready to.

 

I think what he means by "accepting a divorce" does not necessarily mean that reconciliation is not possible. It means realizing that you cannot deny that the actions are leading to divorce and you can't bury your head in the sand and belief it won't happen.

 

It's stepping back from it and taking control over your life and learn to enjoy quiet time with yourself. Take the time to repair and heal yourself. That way, one way or the other, you can accept the outcome.

 

Being a clingy demanding spouse will not bring them back. They have to see that you are strong and do not "need" them in your life. It needs to be more of a silent "want". Maybe then you spouse will see you in a better light and they could come back to you... or not. It wouldn't matter as you would have learned to deal with it one way or another.

 

- Yeah, I am the one to talk.... Having a great deal of difficulty doing it myself. but anyway, that's the concept.

 

Yet I also believe that complete NC and throwing in the towel will also lead to the inevitable... I think there is a right time to sit back and do nothing but build yourself up and a right time to work (silently) hard for what you want - HeatherAngel in your case July is following the first step and then the second step when communication returns.

 

SD, what are you afraid of? Do your fears control your actions and thoughts?

 

I'm not saying to throw in the towel. I'm saying the opposite. I'm giving her the advice she needs to overcome this situation for herself.

 

I'm all about hope and empowerment. Self actualization. Growth. Love.

 

What I have to say is not easy to accept, but it's the path towards winning in a losing situation. Regardless of the outcome.

[SingleDad]

I agree completely

[Owl]

So, SD...have you given any thought to the "other man" concept?

[TrustInYourself]

So, SD...have you given any thought to the "other man" concept?

 

I have a question for you, Owl. Why would you bother asking someone who has not completely accepted losing his wife a question like this?

[SingleDad]

Yes I have thought about potential of OM.

 

And he would have a better volley against me based on my Wife's current emotions.

 

Yet I am the father of her only daughter, giving me the long term advantage.

 

Starting to sound like a tennis match ???

[Gunny376]

You're wrong Heather. There is always hope!

 

Accepting the situation is allowing yourself to heal and become the person that you were before the relationship. That is only going to draw your loved one back to you.

 

Divorce is not the end of life or even the relationship. There is hope in your marriage. There is always hope. Perhaps that is why the pain is so very real.

 

To encourage the flame of love and desire you have to accept the situation for yourself. Completely accept and let go.

 

That is the glory, power, and complete awesomeness of being in love. Do you all remember those feelings? Uncontrollable, passionate, all encompassing love?

 

It is an illusion to think that by showing our love or need or desire for someone that we can control the situation and force someone to love us. This feeling is only created by allowing that person to realize it themselves. Back off. Give them time to realize it for themselves.

 

There are steps to take to encourage this process, but acceptance is key. Best wishes and my thoughts are with you.

 

This line of thinking reminds me of Leo Buscaliga's writing. He wrote several books on the subject of "Love" and taught the first ever university level course on subject. He advocated loving un-conditionally without expectation of anything in return, to love one another just for the sake of loving, without hesitation, remorse, etc ~ nothing in return.

[Owl]

I have a question for you, Owl. Why would you bother asking someone who has not completely accepted losing his wife a question like this?

 

Simple enough...because in order to take action, you have to understand the situation.

 

If he wants to attempt to reconcile his marriage, he needs to know what he's up against. He needs to understand the REAL reasons why she's acting the way she is, so that he can address the REAL problem in the situation.

 

He's not accepted losing his wife...which tells me he wants to fight for his marriage. Ergo, he needs to take action to get to the REAL reasons she's acting the way she is, and to take action to rectify the situation.

 

If there IS an OM...then he needs to plan and take action accordingly to end the affair and rebuild his marriage.

 

I'm not asking these questions to entertain myself, or to hurt him...not at ALL...my intent is to get him thinking about what steps he needs to take to FIX the situation.

 

Make sense?

[Owl]

SD...point blank, what I'm suggesting is that you start actively trying to figure out the REAL REASONS behind her recent actions and attitude.

 

And then...start addressing the problems behind those reasons.

 

If you suspect that there is an OM...you need to confirm it. Then, you need to come up with a plan (like the plan A/plan B I'd suggested from the information over at marriagebuilders) to fight the affair and have a chance at reconciling your marriage.

 

If you suspect that its something else...verify your suspiscions, and work out a gameplan to deal with what you feel is the REAL basis for the problem.

 

The bottom line is this...right now, you're foundering about in all directions, not making headway in ANY direction.

 

You need a goal. Then you need a gameplan to get to your goal. And to work out that gameplan, you need to first understand the problem.

 

Sound like a battle plan? It SHOULD.

 

Are my questions and comments, and my intent a little clearer in light of what I've just posted?

[TrustInYourself]

Simple enough...because in order to take action, you have to understand the situation.

 

If he wants to attempt to reconcile his marriage, he needs to know what he's up against. He needs to understand the REAL reasons why she's acting the way she is, so that he can address the REAL problem in the situation.

 

He's not accepted losing his wife...which tells me he wants to fight for his marriage. Ergo, he needs to take action to get to the REAL reasons she's acting the way she is, and to take action to rectify the situation.

 

If there IS an OM...then he needs to plan and take action accordingly to end the affair and rebuild his marriage.

 

I'm not asking these questions to entertain myself, or to hurt him...not at ALL...my intent is to get him thinking about what steps he needs to take to FIX the situation.

 

Make sense?

 

Well said, and SD's response shows that he has more of a handle on the situation than I have percieved. Good stuff.

[SingleDad]

Yes - and not that she has moved out and she finally told me yesterday where she and my daughter live, I may jsut have a chance to find out for sure if there is an OM.

 

All rationale is that yes she must be with OM or at a minimum having the grass is greener mentality... Yet she has always had the highest morals and also expectations and has tested my love before through break-ups only for me to demostonstrate my love and her coming back.... This is by far the extreme and has no intention of ever coming back to me... only time and my independent coping and perseverence over the next 11 months will tell.

[dead-dyke]

Simple enough...because in order to take action, you have to understand the situation.

 

If he wants to attempt to reconcile his marriage, he needs to know what he's up against. He needs to understand the REAL reasons why she's acting the way she is, so that he can address the REAL problem in the situation.

 

He's not accepted losing his wife...which tells me he wants to fight for his marriage. Ergo, he needs to take action to get to the REAL reasons she's acting the way she is, and to take action to rectify the situation.

 

If there IS an OM...then he needs to plan and take action accordingly to end the affair and rebuild his marriage.

 

I'm not asking these questions to entertain myself, or to hurt him...not at ALL...my intent is to get him thinking about what steps he needs to take to FIX the situation.

 

Make sense?

 

 

As painful as this/could be, I believe you're absolutely right. (cat out of the bag moment) - 1.5 mos. after separation, I was in desperation mode, naturally. I had to talk to my wife. I went to our home and caught her w/ the neighbor. This past yr. has been the worst in my existence. But once I found out what I was up against, the whole dynamic had changed. That's when she got mean. There are some days I miss her, but with the passage of time, it's less and less. And now, I wait for her to serve me. I won't say anything derogatory when I do, but she will know she no longer has control over my emotions. Washing my hands. Dissapointed, yes. Mistakes I have made, acknowledged. Her on the other hand won't apologize for 1 thing.