Fiancees Past haunts me to no ends. Driving me crazy!

[amerikajin]

I think the saddest part about this thread is that the person who's supposed to be his girlfriend's biggest supporter is probably the person with the most contempt for her.

 

Genki, I hope you're still reading. I think this is all on you, bud. It's all in your head. At the risk of making myself look a bit warped, in a strange way, I think I can identify with what you are feeling. You strike me as very self-conscious and disturbed by the fact that other guys have received something you believe should have been 'saved' for you. It's as though you believe that you had something stolen from you. I guess I can understand that point of view -- I want to be clear, that's not how *I* would feel, but I can understand how some people get to that point.

 

Is it possible that maybe, despite your rantings to the contrary, you actually fear that your lack of sexual experience makes you somehow inadequate in her eyes? I mean, that's one theory. I remember dating girls who were more sexually experienced than me when I was younger, and I remember wondering if I would measure up to her past lovers. I never went to this extreme, but I remember the anxiety -- is this you, too? Maybe you worry that since she's had all this experience, you're worried about meeting her expectations. Maybe you're worried that once you give it up, she'll get bored and move on to someone else. I don't know what you're fearful of, but I definitely know you're fearful of losing her somehow. That's why you try to control her, right?

 

I've dated women who've had more sexual experience than I, and I've also dated women who've been virgins. I think loving someone other than yourself means learning to love them for who they are and accepting them in total. And for god's sake, if you know someone doesn't fit your model of what a woman should be, do yourself and her a favor and find someone else.

[genki]

Ok Genki,

 

Listen... Do you love this woman? Do you REALLY love her?

 

Yes I do cobra hence I why want to get back at that guy.

 

I truly believe her now from the bottom of my heart about that ****er and what he did to her and I dont doubt for a 2nd that he wont and hasnt done it to others.

 

 

DBTmarley:

I know bro and I guess at this rate shell end up hating me or resenting me.

 

Huh:

We both have been to college and know there are plenty of guys interested in tagging Asian females only and would then go all over announcing who they did and how they did it etc MANY Asian females fall for their charms and sweet words and in return all they get is being used. There were tons of guys who would go around saying stuff like "heard of that new asian chick? love to tag her" etc. Thats all they saw these women as Asian meat to be tagged bagged and had Something yet again I never did though I could have. And she played right into their hands. And no im not racist.

 

Amerikajin:

Yes I do believe something that should have been kept for me has been stolen away from me like you said only because I kept it for her. I dont feel like I cant measure up because I know Im way better than them. And yes I do worry what It would mean to her if i give it up to her. I feel so sad and depressed thinking it would mean and feel nothing different.

[JHS]

All I'll say is that this is such dangerous territory. When women ask me about my past, I am always intentionally vague and I don't want to know theirs. If it's something relevant to today (like herpes), then I would and should know. But if it's not, I avoid that subject like the plague.

 

I did not read your entire post nor all of those after (too long) but I am sure there are some who say, "It shouldn't matter." They are right, it shouldn't matter. But once it's in your head, you cannot purge your brain. Go rent, "The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind"

 

I have been exactly where you are and frankly there was no hope for me or the relationship. I had to leave - it wasn't so much as a choice as it was the only option. It nearly killed me.

 

Good luck.

[amerikajin]

Thats all they saw these women as Asian meat to be tagged bagged and had Something yet again I never did though I could have. And she played right into their hands. And no im not racist.

 

Okay, so let's assume that she did play right into their hands. She can't undo that. You may not like her past, but you can't choose what she did. You can only choose to continue dating her. You may not like being placed in this position, but there is nothing you can do about the past now. I say either accept it, make the best of it and move on, or find someone else who hasn't slept around so much. Yes, it's a tough choice to make but life is a never-ending series of tough choices. The worst thing you can do is to keep putting it off and denying reality. You obviously do not respect her -- that's clear from your posts. I really don't like advising people to break up, but sometimes it just seems like the obvious choice. I would say "Give her a chance" and all that good stuff, except that I don't think that's even a remote possibility at this point. Your mind's already made up about her. So what do you do?

 

Amerikajin:

Yes I do believe something that should have been kept for me has been stolen away from me like you said only because I kept it for her. I dont feel like I cant measure up because I know Im way better than them. And yes I do worry what It would mean to her if i give it up to her. I feel so sad and depressed thinking it would mean and feel nothing different.

 

Yeah, figured that was the case. I think you feel like your superior in one sense, but you feel anxious in another. Again, there is nothing you can do to change the past and the truth is, you are highly unlikely to find a woman beyond the age of 20 who hasn't had some sexual experience. I can't tell you to change your sense of sexual ethics, but if you want a virgin might I suggest you attend Sunday school regularly and find highly religious ladies who have committed to virginity until marriage. I think it's highly unrealistic to go to a country like Japan, where sexual attitudes are different and more permissive, and expect to find chaste girls in adulthood; Korea on the other hand...

 

The point being, you may feel like you've been 'wronged' by her, but who says so except for you? Your value system is hardly universal. If you don't like her value system, find someone whose value system matches yours. It's that simple. All you're doing now is making her feel awful about herself. You have no right to do that, in my opinion.

[genki]

Ok I took someones advise here and even went and saw a phsycologist/sex therapist/relationship counselor. And heres what she told me -it was very long session and I ended in tears again.

 

 

She told me that Im genuinely one of the most loyal, kind, romantic, responsible and caring people shes ever seen. She also said that based on the thousands of cases shes seen it would be a lot better for people to stay virgins till they get married. General people dont see but she sees thousands of cases of anxiety, self hate, regret, inadequecies, cant measure up performance wise etc to which the solution would have been simply to have stated as virgins.

 

She told me I definately love this girl. She also told me that unlike what most people think love is not UNCONDITIONAL. Love is conditional and it depends on many factors but never be fooled in thinking its unconditional.

But she said I definately love this girl because:

Im always thinking of this girl.

I cry and break down because of her sordid behaviour in the past.

I cry and break down because of the pain and trauma she would have undergone by that rape.

Im protective of her.

I want to find that guy and seek justice for her.

I do things all the time for her even when im angry I do things for her.

I always pay attention and remember what she said or wanted and all her likes and dislikes.

I have spent tons of money.

I have stayed here because of her.

I returned because of her.

and many more little things.

 

And she said its totally natural that when you love a person so overwhelmingly that you are protective of them and that their pain becomes your pain and hence its totally natural that I want to get back at that guy. And no way in hell would you want to have shared that person with anyone else either anyone who states otherwise knowing all the knitty gritty details is lying. And her own thoughts were he is scum of the earth and shouldnt be allowed to get away with it. But she said realistically many men would not bother.

 

She also said that many of the reasons I feel so strongly for this girl is because shes the first. I have kept all my feelings and emotions and desires in bay just for her. She said that people even the ones that have slept all around rarely ever forget their first.

 

She asked what I think marriage in its purest form is and I said marriage in its purest form is the legal, legitimised and committed union of 2 bodies whom have both held out in the face of temptations. She said so I dont think free sex etc is ok? I said most men/women claim they love or loved a such and such a woman and because of that they slept with her/him right? she said yep but if you loved somebody like that why didnt you commit to her/him and marry her first?

 

You dont need to sleep with a girl to know you love her. You can hang out, talk chat, share details find everything out about each other and if you both love each other that much and are so devoted then marry and sleep together. That way you also would think twice about just leaving because your in a legal and spiritual commitment/contract and hence less likely to just walk away as in the case of BF/GF etc would because your both firsts for each other and had struggled so much that you would both value eachother a lot and would have no issues based on a non-existant past and would therefore be willing to compromise to make things work rather than just walk(directly related to your past experiences).

 

She asked me if Im talking based on experience and what temptations I had in my life ie was it easy or hard for me? How far had I gone with her. I told her tell me of ANY guy you know of that his unit is at the gates of HEAVEN and yet pulls out and back. She just said WOW I have never heard of that.

 

Then She said because of how much I have held out in the face of all temptations and how much I have gone through for this girl and how much I have supported her financially and emotionally that I feel robbed in a way of something I believe should have been kept and certainly not given away so cheaply. Not because im insecure about my own performances etc but rather because of the value i place on things.

 

She also said that I agree sex is a natural act and we all have desires but the line is drawn where we become like animals screwing around and giving in or where we choose to save ourselves for the love of our lives and commit to her/him in marriage first. She admits this idealogy from her own experience and the thousands of cases she has seen would save a lot of marriages and relationships but that even she herself didnt wait.

 

Nobody will accept somebody else UNCONDITIONALLY. It just depends on how high or how low your standards line is. Many people because of the hope and loves they have lost in the past become compromising and because of all the sexing become desensitisied to things and may drop their lines very low. Those people dont also realise that in that moment they gratify themselves in the longer run they lose something else.

 

And theres no one formula for post rape behaviour. Many people she said would become reclusive and seclude themselves and not trust others especially the opposite sex but some also feel they are worthless and are open property. What I would have done and what she should have done may not have crossed her mind then and in a panic stricken state many people cant be logical nor selfdefensive especially women.

 

She like I believe that she was raped indeed. She like I also believed had she not been raped she would have most likely stayed a virgin till now due to her personality and her believes and dreams(this girl just like me had the same dream of giving it to someone very special the love of her life not for it to be taken away and stolen) and her subsequent behaviour was due to the immense feeling of loss of something she valued too. Ultimately she was and is responsible for all her actions including everything that led upto her rape and POST rape too.

 

She asked me If I have any other issues that I cant deal with or anything else I hate? I said no. So she said heres where you stand:

 

You have always valued and respected yourself and those around you by not sleeping with them. You have always been a moral and ethical person with almost no shades or gray but rather black and white. Because of those choices YOU made you are who you are. Because of your choice of not sleeping around YOU are also who you are full of hope, romance, loyality, deep trust etc. There would be tons of women who would give a arm and leg to be with a guy like you.

 

However its time to face this issue. You have no real major issues with this person except her past though any other guy except you would have issues with her due to her scarring and baggage something they would feel they dont deserve. You have issues with her past because of how much you have done and gone through for her and hence believe that you of all people deserve her firsts just like your giving her yours. You clearly love this girl from the bottom of your heart and with all your being something that may be related to the fact that you waited otherwise you may like most men have walked away a long time ago from such a girl(with all her baggage) leaving her worse off and not caring. You also have issues because you feel disgusted and turned off knowing all that information and having seen visuals and knowing this or that guy was there and doing that already and you have nothing left. You also feel insecure about whether if you give her something you value so highly above your life itself that it wouldnt mean anything or much to her. You also question your own value in terms of giving her all your firsts and to her it being a repitition not her firsts but things she has experienced before not something you both together experienced for a first. You are now because of all her past demons also questioning if she truly loves you or is holding onto you desperately because she has always been used, abused and dumped and shes never been the one to dump someone else .

And though she has changed greatly from whom she used to be but I see that all because of me putting in the effort and time and teaching her whats right and wrong and showing her, not because she changed of her own accord and had learned from her past herself (though I easily could have slept with her not bothered with all her baggage and emotions and walked away saying its not working out)

 

 

She said that she suggest I take time off and re-evaluate things. Yes I love this girl and she(counselor) thinks she loves me too but it may not be love on the same level. And her past will always haunt me and anything can set it off. I could have easily done her and walked away and chalked it up to a mistake or the past but I take responsibility for my actions and truly care about others more than I do about myself. I dont want to walk away or abandon her because of the hurt and tormoil shed feel and how much more it would kill her on the inside though its hurting me too.

 

Many people she said have this notion that if they walk away that person may find someone better or someone who appreciates them better or that they deserve better but the truth be told many many people dont and many others compromise and delude themselves. She said from all the cases she see's etc and everything i have told her and her own experience and in this society and culture and the modern selfish self gratifying world that I would be the best thing that has ever happened to this poor girl and would most likely ever happen. She said she knows thats harsh but statistically its also true. ANd she would never ever forget me and many many many men would never put up with the **** I had too nor bother proving themselves or gaining someones trust as much as I have and POST ME this girl would close up wayyy more which would make it next to impossible for herself too. Thats not to say she may never find someone she might but maybe its also time I become a little selfish and do things that are for my own good.

 

Now its upto me what to do and that taking time off might let me think things more clearly.

[sally4sara]

Ok I took someones advise here and even went and saw a phsycologist/sex therapist/relationship counselor. And heres what she told me -it was very long session and I ended in tears again.

 

#1) And no way in hell would you want to have shared that person with anyone else either anyone who states otherwise knowing all the knitty gritty details is lying.

....................

Its not that knowing all the details brings joy to the people that learn them in regards to their partner's past and no one on here told you that it would. Your "therapist" might have not explained it clearly, but no licensed psychologist is going to tell you obsessing over their permanent past to the point of thinking they are a disgusting slut for having ONE consented partner is normal. Not unless they are simply an unlicensed therapist running on opinion. Many people DO know their partner's past and are able to think of it as simply their past. Sure, some extremes might make someone uneasy, but this is not the case with your girlfriend. A licensed psychologist will also NOT tell you it is loving or healthy to make your partner feel like they are disgusting, dress in a manner that is not their choice to gain your approval, or not have even a social, occasional drink when they want one if they want to be in your good graces. One may make these changes on their own, but to do so only for someone else's approval is not healthy. To expect it of someone without them coming to the decision of their own volition, IS controlling. Also unhealthy.

.....................

 

#2) How far had I gone with her. I told her tell me of ANY guy you know of that his unit is at the gates of HEAVEN and yet pulls out and back. She just said WOW I have never heard of that.

....................

Are you saying you have physically been inside your current girlfriend and "pulled out and back" or some other past girlfriend. If you have, you are not a virgin. Is this why you feel disgusted? Is this how you know you "are good/are not afraid you won't measure up/long lasting"

You have made these claims in previous posts. It made me wonder how you could claim these things. If I have understood this new post, you will at least not seem to be completely over compensating; just hypocritical. Also, I'm betting a guy doing this is something an actual psychologist has heard of before.

 

So please, is this just a visit with one of those "therapist" folk who are nothing more than a person you pay to be a friendly ear and dispense opinion and advise? A friend studying psych in their 3rd year? A counselor at your church? Its pretty much the kind of visit you can get on such short notice. Most don't work weekends; at best half days on Saturday. I am speaking of psychologists. You know, actual doctors for your mental health.

[huh]

Did you tell the "therapaist" how you grilled her about the rape & questioned her about what she should have done? If so, what did the therapist say? If not, why didn't you share with the therapist?

[genki]

So please, is this just a visit with one of those "therapist" folk who are nothing more than a person you pay to be a friendly ear and dispense opinion and advise? A friend studying psych in their 3rd year? A counselor at your church? Its pretty much the kind of visit you can get on such short notice. Most don't work weekends; at best half days on Saturday. I am speaking of psychologists. You know, actual doctors for your mental health.

 

 

What are you on HATE mode?

 

No this was a licensed physcologist(sp?) with sub speciality in relationships and sexual matters. Did you not figure out that im in a different timezone and its already wednesday here???

 

 

I have never told her YOU NEED TO STOP DRINKING OR CHANGE FOR ME. I have always told her change for yourself if you think change is necessary and is good for you. Dont change for me as its meaningless.

Does that make me controlling? quite to the contrary.

 

Besides what good comes from drinking? Look all around at all the issues the world has and all the cases where people say it was the alcohol that made them do so and so. Its all around. No good comes from drinking and controlling how much you drink is exceptionally hard especially to stop when your having a really good time or challenged too and then things can lead to things you might regret. Of all the people dont you think i would love to drown myself in alcohol or have a few "social " drinks? yet i havent touched any. all alcohol does is loosens your inhibitions and makes you lose control. Number 1 tool in a mans arsenal for getting laid usually.

 

She didnt tell me that obessing about is healthy but she looked at it from my point of view. Ultimately she made things clearer on where I stand and what I am and what im looking for. Now its upto me whether I want to stay or not. and If I stay something she told me to seriously consider that I should try very very very hard not to dwell on thoughts or her past because it will ruin my own future. it will ruin my own chances of happiness something that I dont deserve either.

 

I didnt say penetrate did I. I said at the gates of heaven without entering it.

 

Huh: read my post. her response to those issues was that everybody deals with things differently and there is no set behaviourly pattern post rape. What I may have done might have been to beat the guy and do everything in my power even if it might cost me my life because thats how highly I value it but then again im not and wasnt in that situation. Ultimately the guy had no right and though she could have done things she didnt and feared for her life. She told me that she understands why i questioned her so much and its because of the trust bond that is very hard to establish once broken but that every sign points to it being true and that since I love her I should not question her on that and be a comfort to her like I have been there all along rather than quiz her etc.

[Bronzepen]

I have read through some threads so if I missed anything then I apologize.

 

I think what you need to ask yourself is "what do you want?"

 

Meaning, if you could change anything magically, what would you change and why? Why would making this change, make things better?

[genki]

I have read through some threads so if I missed anything then I apologize.

 

I think what you need to ask yourself is "what do you want?"

 

Meaning, if you could change anything magically, what would you change and why? Why would making this change, make things better?

 

 

If I could change something magically speaking?

 

Most definately I would change her having slept with other guys and on the top if i had to be specific having been raped by that 1 guy because hes the reason she got so screwed and has so much scars and baggage. The 2nd guy followed as a consequence (though he didnt help because he got his lay and dumped her instantly) and all the making outs were in part due to 1st guy and the excessive alcohol involved.

I dont even mind a couple of kisses and huggles but thats totally different to sleeping with someone etc.

 

another thing is she had a BF for a while before leaving and though he tried tons to sleep with her and she was into him she never did because she thought it wasnt right and she wasnt ready and didnt want to lose it to him. that 1st guy took a lot away from her.

 

In so doing this would have been perfect and I nor her would have had any issues nor insecurities nor scars or baggage or distrust etc. And everything we would have experienced would have been a first for both of us and we would have grown together as it were.

[Bronzepen]

If I could change something magically speaking?

 

Most definately I would change her having slept with other guys and on the top if i had to be specific having been raped by that 1 guy because hes the reason she got so screwed and has so much scars and baggage. The 2nd guy followed as a consequence (though he didnt help because he got his lay and dumped her instantly) and all the making outs were in part due to 1st guy and the excessive alcohol involved.

I dont even mind a couple of kisses and huggles but thats totally different to sleeping with someone etc.

 

another thing is she had a BF for a while before leaving and though he tried tons to sleep with her and she was into him she never did because she thought it wasnt right and she wasnt ready and didnt want to lose it to him. that 1st guy took a lot away from her.

 

In so doing this would have been perfect and I nor her would have had any issues nor insecurities nor scars or baggage or distrust etc. And everything we would have experienced would have been a first for both of us and we would have grown together as it were.

 

I thought you would have said something selfless like. "I would make it so that she will be happy for the rest of her life with or without me."

 

But your answer actually identified the issues that you are having.

 

Jealousy

So is this a competition for you? That fact that she has "technically" had sex with 2 guys prior to you and you have had 0. Are you jealous because you weren't her first? Why does it matter? True, you never forget your first and in her case it's really unfortunate. But you also never forget your 1st love. I believe for her it would be you.

 

OR

 

Is it because it bothers you a great deal on the reasons and choices she made with these guys. 1st guy you can't comprehend why she didn't do something or tried harder to prevent the rape. The 2nd guy you blame her "bad" choice on her drinking and issues from the 1st guy.

 

If you love her then where is your empathy? Instead of beating down on her for the choices she shoulda, coulda, would of made. Support her and let her know that you are there for her. The past is the past. Don't dwell on it or try to figure out why she did what she did. Just because you weren't the first it doesn't mean you can't grow together.

 

Think of it this way. Everything you are doing with her from the moment you met her, is a first for both of you.

 

You have a good thing going. Don't mess it up. Don't concentrate on where you've been but where you are going.

 

Good Luck

[Bronzepen]

If I could change something magically speaking?

 

Most definately I would change her having slept with other guys and on the top if i had to be specific having been raped by that 1 guy because hes the reason she got so screwed and has so much scars and baggage. The 2nd guy followed as a consequence (though he didnt help because he got his lay and dumped her instantly) and all the making outs were in part due to 1st guy and the excessive alcohol involved.

I dont even mind a couple of kisses and huggles but thats totally different to sleeping with someone etc.

 

another thing is she had a BF for a while before leaving and though he tried tons to sleep with her and she was into him she never did because she thought it wasnt right and she wasnt ready and didnt want to lose it to him. that 1st guy took a lot away from her.

 

In so doing this would have been perfect and I nor her would have had any issues nor insecurities nor scars or baggage or distrust etc. And everything we would have experienced would have been a first for both of us and we would have grown together as it were.

 

I thought you would have said something selfless like. "I would make it so that she will be happy for the rest of her life with or without me."

 

But your answer actually identified the issues that you are having.

 

Jealousy

So is this a competition for you? That fact that she has "technically" had sex with 2 guys prior to you and you have had 0. Are you jealous because you weren't her first? Why does it matter? True, you never forget your first and in her case it's really unfortunate. But you also never forget your 1st love. I believe for her it would be you.

 

OR

 

Is it because it bothers you a great deal on the reasons and choices she made with these guys. 1st guy you can't comprehend why she didn't do something or tried harder to prevent the rape. The 2nd guy you blame her "bad" choice on her drinking and issues from the 1st guy.

 

If you love her then where is your empathy? Instead of beating down on her for the choices she shoulda, coulda, would of made. Support her and let her know that you are there for her. The past is the past. Don't dwell on it or try to figure out why she did what she did. Just because you weren't the first it doesn't mean you can't grow together.

 

Think of it this way. Everything you are doing with her from the moment you met her, is a first for both of you.

 

You have a good thing going. Don't mess it up. Don't concentrate on where you've been but where you are going.

 

Good Luck

[Sunblast]

I have this ambition to be a therapist. People have ever so much to say. And no one to listen. And people have money to spend. Such a perfect combination.

[Tripper]

You know, this thread just goes round in circles. What continually comes through in your post is your anger. You seem angry at the world and at anyone who doesn't live by your standards.

 

Nobody will accept somebody else UNCONDITIONALLY. It just depends on how high or how low your standards line is. Many people because of the hope and loves they have lost in the past become compromising and because of all the sexing become desensitisied to things and may drop their lines very low. Those people dont also realise that in that moment they gratify themselves in the longer run they lose something else.

 

Psychobabble!! How the hell can you say my standards or anyones standards are lower than yours?? You can say they're different.

 

 

You have always been a moral and ethical person with almost no shades or gray but rather black and white.

 

I told you this in one of my earlier posts. Where do I send you the bill?? And while you see the world in black and white, real life has many nuances of gray.

 

The sad part of all this is that you come off as a uptight, moralistic and angry man. No where in any of your posts do you come across as having the tiniest iota of human compassion or understanding. And don't kid yourself. One session with a therapist isn't going to do much. You have a lot of work to do.

 

No where in any of your rantings do you even consider that people can change and improve themselves. You don't come into the world fully formed. As you live life, have experiences and make mistakes you learn and grow as a person. Underlying values don't change but you develop more understanding and compassion for those who stumble and trip, metaphorically speaking.

 

As for beating the crap out of the guy that "bagged and tagged" your gf (your words, not mine), exactly what's that going to do?? It won't give her back her virginity. It won't change your attitude or mindset to the fact that she's not a virgin. And it's a lousy way to work out your anger.

 

You need to do some serious work on yourself.

[sally4sara]

Genki,

 

It isn't YOU I'm hating on here. It is what YOU'VE put your GF through that I'm hating on. Keep it up and she's going to end up having PTSD and/or rebelling against you.

Your "therapist" is the kind that dispenses advise and not facts. You gave that away when you posted her take on what you've told us. All you did is find someone who wants to get paid, and (since you got in so quickly) needs clients badly. An actual doctor is usually busy, too busy to see someone so quickly. You simply are not the first case of a guy who didn't follow through with sex that close to having sex. Two of my guy friends have made this choice at the last minute.

I agree with your ideals as far as the virtues of waiting. I see the worth in not sleeping with everyone willing to lay down with you; thats just acting common and who gets anywhere good by being common? Nothing is wrong with someone waiting for marriage. I can even understand you feeling disappointed about not being her first; the act of losing your virginity will be a bit of a replay for her in your mind. But if you REALLY love someone, you accept EVERYTHING about them.

Love is being able to look someone in the eye and say "There is nothing I would change about you that would make me wish to be with you more." It is about acceptance. Unconditional love is pretty impossible for a human, but trying the best we can to rise above the judging and desire to change someone is just as virtuous as waiting for marriage.

About the drinking, alcohol isn't some wonderful thing, but if someone wants to do it and if of age, it is their right to do so. Not everyone goes out and drinks till they fall down and there is nothing wrong with having a drink or two with friends. Being able to say "I'm just having a drink or two and going home" and following through with that is a healthy thing and builds responsibility. If she was getting plastered, I can understand being concerned. You still cannot MAKE someone not do that and expect it to work forever. Same thing with expecting her to dress differently.

 

P.S. you said "pull out and back". That was confusing. But at least THEN your claims to know you'd (all the praising you gave your sexual ability) made more sense. Sorry I misunderstood.

[JHS]

So please, is this just a visit with one of those "therapist" folk who are nothing more than a person you pay to be a friendly ear and dispense opinion and advise? A friend studying psych in their 3rd year? A counselor at your church? Its pretty much the kind of visit you can get on such short notice. Most don't work weekends; at best half days on Saturday. I am speaking of psychologists. You know, actual doctors for your mental health.

 

Yeah, Sally4, I'm sensing incredulity here - not hate. I too cannot believe that in one session you sat down, explored all these things, and a therapist told you all these conclusions. It just does not add up - what you described is not what I perceive, from a somewhat informed perspective, to be the role of a psychologist.

[Arianna72]

As a trained psychologist who has been working in the field for nearly 12 years I am going to have to say that I don't believe you spoke to a therapist at all. Much of what you wrote about what the therapist said seems to simply be reiterations of what you have written and while a caring friend may simply agree with all your opinions and attitudes to make you feel better a trained therapist would encourage you to look deeper into the issues you are having right now and where they actually are coming from.

 

I find this entire thread rather disturbing and I would encourage you as others have to seek counseling from a trained therapist. If you genuinely love your girlfriend you are going to need some help to get past the issues you are having right now as your current attitude towards her could prove to be quite damaging both for your relationship with her and for her as an individual.

[huh]

Huh: read my post. her response to those issues was that everybody deals with things differently and there is no set behaviourly pattern post rape. What I may have done might have been to beat the guy and do everything in my power even if it might cost me my life because thats how highly I value it but then again im not and wasnt in that situation. Ultimately the guy had no right and though she could have done things she didnt and feared for her life. She told me that she understands why i questioned her so much and its because of the trust bond that is very hard to establish once broken but that every sign points to it being true and that since I love her I should not question her on that and be a comfort to her like I have been there all along rather than quiz her etc.

 

No your quizzing her goes against standard advice to family and friends of rape survivors. So you have not been "a comfort" to her "all along." You have only added to her trauma and if your therapist didn't tell you that, I suggest you find a more comptent one because that's fairly standard advice. Here are some Google results which will bring you to sites which have advice for loved ones of rape survivors:

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rape+survivors+family+friends

 

There are numerous sites with information like this:

 

 

You will add to survivor's pain and trauma if you:

• make statements that question their experience
  
• invalidate their pain and suffering
  
• get impatient if they don't immediately "recover"
  
• hold them responsible for both their actions and the actions of the rapist/molester and/or
  
• blame/shame them for having been targeted for sexual abuse or assault in the first place

To support survivors of sexual assault:

• Believe what they tell you, and let them know that you believe them.
  
• Never blame the survivor for the assault.
  
• Listen when they talk and make them feel comfortable when expressing feelings.
  
• Validate their feelings. Reassure them that what they did to survive was right for them.
  
• Let them know the importance of getting medical attention. Support them in this.
  
• Do not be judgmental. Counteract self-blaming statements.
  
• Don't interrogate them—you are not investigators.
  
• Validate their experience and their feelings.
  
• Let them talk about it when they want to, and not when they don't.
  
• Support the decisions they make around reporting or not reporting.
  
• Recognize their right to talk about the sexual assault whenever needed.
  
• Get support for yourself when you need it from a sexual assault or rape crisis hotline.
  
• Don't do it all yourself. Help the survivor build a strong support network.

http://www.sass-lane.org/family.html

 

You have done precisely many of the things one isn't supposed to do. If you truly love her, I suggest you educate yourself about rape and apologize to her for adding to her trauma.

[genki]

Tripper: Yes I am angry and I cant deny that. But I am exceptionally angry at the rapist and dont believe he should be able to get away with it. This girl is an exceptionally sweet girl and I would never have wished that fate on her and that guy had no right to ruin her the way he did. Hence why I think its only right to find him and give him whats coming to him. Justice pure and simple. I have the deepest hate for rapists and not only from this experience but previously too and they can all go die (but then some of you would probably advocate forgiving their PAST).

Would beating him to a pulp give her back her virginity or innocence or take back everything else she did to herself as a result? NO. But that still doesnt mean that man should be allowed to roam free and possibly hurting and raping or forcing others and for all I now he might be hooked on foreign docile asian women who would rather shut up then shout out. A phenomenom very prevalent in Japan very few women ever report a rape or fight back many many shut up and say nothing further allowing these men to roam round doing further damage to others.

 

 

I had made an appointment in the only time slots the person had 4 days ago or so. I didnt just walk in and it was the only slots she had.

 

It was her suggestion not mine to take some time off and re-evaluate things and she also suggested I come back for more sessions.

 

 

Huh: Its only lately because of all the lies and deciet and break of trust that I questioned her on it. Until lately I had never questioned her and was always there for her holding her hand, wiping her tears, making her smile, doing stupid dances to cheer her up, surprising her with stuff, I always was a comfort to her

 

A woman could rub her down there in your face and be the hottest girl around but if she says no you have no right to force yourself on her and that constitutes a rape. Did the girl tempt you and lead you ? yes but did the guy no matter what have the right to do so? ABSOLUTELY NO. but many guys would fall given a situation like that.

 

I was always there for her. And I only questioned it once and saw the response uniform and never questioned her again about it.

 

 

 

Now I think I need to take a step back and look at things and re-evaluate. I value innocence, purity and virginity highly and have fought all my life for it. Would I be willing to give up on that hope and dream for her? And If I am then comes my insecurities what difference would it make to her at all?

 

She swears heaven and hell that it would mean all the difference in the world and that she was never really into anyone like that and we waited all this time and that Im the love of her life. But could a woman seriously biologically sexually speaking feel any different? Can she get more wet ? Can she experience more ecstacy and pleasure just by it being me? Would the actual act of intercourse not simply be a replay?

 

The way i see it as though she would feel completely different yes her body would react the same way it has to the other guys. She would get equally wet, equally horny everything the same and giving her something i have fought so hard to keep and cherished would essentially not mean anything to her since her body will feel the same and react the same just like with the others.

 

 

If not then what the hell have I fought so hard for ? Why did I resist all those temptations and women? Why did I avoid all those situations? Why did I walk out from places just because there was porn or people making out there? Everything I stand for down to my core would be meaningless and everything I would have fought so hard for would have been pointless.

 

As some of my friends state I have a tendency to put the pussy on a pedestal and treat it with the utmost respect and care whereas in reality all it is is a piece of meat no better no worse.

[sally4sara]

This girl is an exceptionally sweet girl and I would never have wished that fate on her and that guy had no right to ruin her the way he did.

 

THIS!

It is repeatedly this attitude that I am horrified by. He raped her. He hurt her. BUT HE DID NOT RUIN HER and thinking this way about it; acting out with this opinion; letting her know this is what you think is so damaging to her! How will she ever be able to work past what happened to her as long as she is with someone who continuously makes her feel like this?

[littlekitty]

I can't help but wonder if Genki actually has some serious sexual issues, which are adding to the intensity of his anger?

 

Why did I avoid all those situations? Why did I walk out from places just because there was porn or people making out there?

 

Virginity is not having sex yourself. Going all out to avoid all situations involving even making out is something completely different in my mind? Have you ever masterbated at all?

[Tripper]

Sal and Kit, I've read all his posts, rambling as they may be, and think this dude has a multitude of problems.

 

He definitely has a lot of built up anger. His highly moralistic stance let's him see only in black or white. He's not forgiving or compassionate in anyway. I get the feeling his attitude towards women is skewed; he speaks of "docile Asian women" as if they should be these subservient, virginal women that know their place. Again this is only intuitive on my part.

 

He questions how his gf will feel anything different if/when they have sex than she felt with her other partners. But what's his perspective? If he's never experienced sex how does he have a reference for the whole emotional connection that brings about the mind blowing, life altering sex that occurs between two people who love each.

 

I also think there's some missing pieces of the puzzle to this guy and his whole story. He's not telling all. Again, my intuition is telling me that something has happened to cause such major conflict and anger inside him...

[amerikajin]

There's a lot I really want to say here but I'm trying to be objective and non-judgmental.

 

A phenomenom very prevalent in Japan very few women ever report a rape or fight back many many shut up and say nothing further allowing these men to roam round doing further damage to others.

 

Well that's a phenomenon very prevalent all over the world. Rape is rarely successfully prosecuted and often unreported - even in the West.

 

Here's the problem I have with your outrage: it's all well and good that you want to give this guy justice. The problem is, I sense that this justice pertains more to you than it does your girlfriend, who is the *real* victim assuming she has been raped. You're out to get the other guy for f***ing your girl first; it has nothing to do with the fact that your girl is special to you and she was assaulted, does it?

 

 

She swears heaven and hell that it would mean all the difference in the world and that she was never really into anyone like that and we waited all this time and that Im the love of her life. But could a woman seriously biologically sexually speaking feel any different? Can she get more wet ? Can she experience more ecstacy and pleasure just by it being me? Would the actual act of intercourse not simply be a replay?

 

It all depends on the guy, genki.

 

Physically, the vaginal muscles relax a little bit with age, which has nothing to do with how many sexual partners someone has had. As far as being "more wet", that probably depends on the intensity of the orgasm, and that depends on how she feels about the guy. Personally, I can't imagine how a woman could really get an intense guy who has treated her the way you have. My guess is that she remains with you because she has low self-esteem. Maybe she even feels dominated by you.

 

The way i see it as though she would feel completely different yes her body would react the same way it has to the other guys. She would get equally wet, equally horny everything the same and giving her something i have fought so hard to keep and cherished would essentially not mean anything to her since her body will feel the same and react the same just like with the others.

 

You are obsessed with this, and it is an unhealthy obsession. You need to focus on how you relate to each other emotionally.

 

 

If not then what the hell have I fought so hard for ? Why did I resist all those temptations and women? Why did I avoid all those situations? Why did I walk out from places just because there was porn or people making out there? Everything I stand for down to my core would be meaningless and everything I would have fought so hard for would have been pointless.

 

As some of my friends state I have a tendency to put the pussy on a pedestal and treat it with the utmost respect and care whereas in reality all it is is a piece of meat no better no worse.

 

Don't put yourself on a pedestal, genki. There are other girls out there, a lot of whom have not had sex. The chances of finding a virgin are slim as you get older but even so, they exist. The problem here is that you don't want to let her go; you don't want to take the chance of being single again and not finding someone any better than what you've got. You want to be the victim. Your "therapist" is flatly wrong -- there is nothing honorable about what you're doing. This is motivated by your own sense of insecurity and your own insecurities drive your attempts to control and dominate your girlfriend.

 

As for what you fought for, I have absolutely no idea on this one. I think any future consultations with a therapist ought to be more about you and *your* history not you and your girlfriend's history. It seems to me like you have to resolve some issues about your own sexuality and balance that with dating reality.

[sally4sara]

Yeah Tripper, I def agree there is some underlaying issue; maybe even HE can't put his finger on it. There also seems to be this assumption that he is of this mindset through religious standards. But for the life of me, I can't see how religious standards explain all of his ideals or motives. Maybe I'm just not familiar with his religion despite being raised very involved in a Baptist Christian church and studying many other religions. Christianity does usually have the corner market on piety. Yes we were told to wait for marriage and yes we were taught anything but married sex was fornication, but the entire basis of the Christian faith is love, forgiveness, and not judging others as though we are God. True, I don't see many Christians doing this and I do see a lot of Christians using their religion to think they are better than others, but not to THIS extent. I mean really, I've seen ex junkies and ex prostitutes turn to the church and be received. There seems to be none of THESE virtues within the OP; ONLY this over blown need for sexual purity in himself and others for them to be seen as worthy in his eyes.

I'm not all that weirded out by him being able to explain what sex physically would be like. I believe he has had someone train him to think this way and explained to him what would be his physical reward through sex if he waited for that ambiguous "perfect" person. It is way off of reality, as most females would tell you about their first experience. It isn't some horny moment of gushing girl juice. You are nervous, you don't know what you're doing, and it hurts. Maybe he would say it was because I didn't wait for marriage.......I have no idea what he has been told or how ridiculous it is because I too agree - he isn't telling us everything.

 

So Genki, where DID you get all these ideas? Who told you all this spin on sexual purity and what sex will be like? You can't possibly be a virgin and know firsthand.

[amerikajin]

There's a lot I really want to say here but I'm trying to be objective and non-judgmental.

 

A phenomenom very prevalent in Japan very few women ever report a rape or fight back many many shut up and say nothing further allowing these men to roam round doing further damage to others.

 

Well that's a phenomenon very prevalent all over the world. Rape is rarely successfully prosecuted and often unreported - even in the West.

 

Here's the problem I have with your outrage: it's all well and good that you want to give this guy justice. The problem is, I sense that this justice pertains more to you than it does your girlfriend, who is the *real* victim assuming she has been raped. You're out to get the other guy for f***ing your girl first; it has nothing to do with the fact that your girl is special to you and she was assaulted, does it?

 

 

She swears heaven and hell that it would mean all the difference in the world and that she was never really into anyone like that and we waited all this time and that Im the love of her life. But could a woman seriously biologically sexually speaking feel any different? Can she get more wet ? Can she experience more ecstacy and pleasure just by it being me? Would the actual act of intercourse not simply be a replay?

 

It all depends on the guy, genki.

 

Physically, the vaginal muscles relax a little bit with age, which has nothing to do with how many sexual partners someone has had. As far as being "more wet", that probably depends on the intensity of the orgasm, and that depends on how she feels about the guy. Personally, I can't imagine how a woman could really get an intense guy who has treated her the way you have. My guess is that she remains with you because she has low self-esteem. Maybe she even feels dominated by you.

 

The way i see it as though she would feel completely different yes her body would react the same way it has to the other guys. She would get equally wet, equally horny everything the same and giving her something i have fought so hard to keep and cherished would essentially not mean anything to her since her body will feel the same and react the same just like with the others.

 

You are obsessed with this, and it is an unhealthy obsession. You need to focus on how you relate to each other emotionally.

 

 

If not then what the hell have I fought so hard for ? Why did I resist all those temptations and women? Why did I avoid all those situations? Why did I walk out from places just because there was porn or people making out there? Everything I stand for down to my core would be meaningless and everything I would have fought so hard for would have been pointless.

 

As some of my friends state I have a tendency to put the pussy on a pedestal and treat it with the utmost respect and care whereas in reality all it is is a piece of meat no better no worse.

 

Don't put yourself on a pedestal, genki. There are other girls out there, a lot of whom have not had sex. The chances of finding a virgin are slim as you get older but even so, they exist. The problem here is that you don't want to let her go; you don't want to take the chance of being single again and not finding someone any better than what you've got. You want to be the victim. Your "therapist" is flatly wrong -- there is nothing honorable about what you're doing. This is motivated by your own sense of insecurity and your own insecurities drive your attempts to control and dominate your girlfriend.

 

As for what you fought for, I have absolutely no idea on this one. I think any future consultations with a therapist ought to be more about you and *your* history not you and your girlfriend's history. It seems to me like you have to resolve some issues about your own sexuality and balance that with dating reality.