Fiancees Past haunts me to no ends. Driving me crazy!

[Cobra_X30]

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Virginity or lack of seems to be the big issue and that, my friends, is where each individuals moral compass points differently.

 

If his moral belief is that one should remain a virgin until marriage and hers doesn't then there is a major divide to overcome. That said he has no right to impose his moral standards on her. Now certain moral standards are guaranteed by law but this ain't one of them.

 

With respect to both of you, you may have to agree to disagree due to differing value systems. Ones not better than the other there both just different.

 

Tripper,

 

OP is not married and I believe he stated that he is currently having sexual relations with his GF. Perhaps he was using future tense and I missed it.

 

This in particular carried less of the moral overtones to my ear, and more leaning towards a fit of insecurity and outrage over the breach of trust.

 

Just my thoughts

[Tripper]

Tripper,

 

OP is not married and I believe he stated that he is currently having sexual relations with his GF. Perhaps he was using future tense and I missed it.

 

This in particular carried less of the moral overtones to my ear, and more leaning towards a fit of insecurity and outrage over the breach of trust.

 

Just my thoughts

 

Yeah, Cobra, I went back and read the original post and he's not having sex with her, but has invested time in the relationship so he feels he's had his trust breached. That is odd because her past happened before she met him albeit she did not come tell him about it. I'm willing to bet he raised the question, wasn't prepared for the answer, then badgered her until she told him all the nitty gritty details. But if you read the post again, he goes onto say that he is plagued by the physical aspect of what she's done and if and when he does it, it won't be special or have meaning... I just don't think he has enough info... he's a virgin and has never experienced sex either casually or within a committed relationship... so how the heck do you understand how special the latter is.. ??

I'm not advocating any moral stance on pre-marital sex as it's up to each individual to make that call, but I think he's operating in a bit of a vacuum.

I don't think he'll ever come to terms with this and should just move on and let her find someone who will accept her, love her and cherish her warts and all...

[Cobra_X30]

I'm not advocating any moral stance on pre-marital sex as it's up to each individual to make that call, but I think he's operating in a bit of a vacuum.

I don't think he'll ever come to terms with this and should just move on and let her find someone who will accept her, love her and cherish her warts and all...

 

Oh wow! He's taking the anachronistic approach!

 

That's very rare!

 

The idea is often similar to this. He waits for the perfect person, and expects his partner to have waited also.

 

It's anachronistic in that sleeping with a man before they met is tantamount to cheating, because she didnt bother to wait for someone special... ie... him! So, the visuals are so strong because he feels as though she cheated on him.

 

Your very correct, I think it is more than obvious he got some signals that she wasnt 100% truthful, and started hammering for answers.

[sderenzi]

I'd just say sleep with her, the girls messed up so get some fun out of her while you can. Also you should assume she's had much, much more sex than she's saying after-all girls will be girls ehh? I advise you find someone more calming and stable, the female is to much to handle atm.

[Tripper]

Yep, and I'll tell you this Cobra, I've had 2 LTRs with Chinese women and they have this trusting innocence about them. The very qualities that make them endearing also make them vulnerable to being taken advantage of.

 

If you are in a relationship with them they are extremely loyal and will not even so much as look at another man. They take their love and fidelity very seriously.

 

More's the pity because he doesn't really know what a jewel he has in her and unless he can resolve this he will lose her.... Hope he reads all the posts in this thread and then gives it some serious thought.

[Cobra_X30]

Yep, and I'll tell you this Cobra, I've had 2 LTRs with Chinese women and they have this trusting innocence about them. The very qualities that make them endearing also make them vulnerable to being taken advantage of.

 

If you are in a relationship with them they are extremely loyal and will not even so much as look at another man. They take their love and fidelity very seriously.

 

More's the pity because he doesn't really know what a jewel he has in her and unless he can resolve this he will lose her.... Hope he reads all the posts in this thread and then gives it some serious thought.

 

Why did you let them go Tripper? I dated a Japanese girl that was similar, I was 18 and she was 22, and in the end she just couldnt handle the age gap.

 

Otherwise, most of my experiences have been the opposite. I've dated a lot of the attention whore types.

 

Anyway, OP has a girl with some issues. I would call her a diamond in the rough at the moment, with a good possible upside!

[Tripper]

I had divorced after a long term marriage and didn't want to remarry at the time. Both wanted marriage and family. So in both cases we agreed to end it. This was in my 40's.

Now I'm in my 50's and am with an amazing woman; we plan to marry next year. Every so often I wonder how it would have been with either of the Asian ladies. Not in a sad way, but in a "what if" way...

 

And the girl in question in this thread is pretty normal in my humble opinion. She's experienced western culture and maybe cut loose abit. And learned a lesson to boot. I think you're spot on when you say she has potential. She's just not fully formed or mature as a person, is finding her way with the usual mistakes we make and learning. Jeez... don't you wish we had a dress rehearsal for life?? <smile>

[sally4sara]

The whole idea that women are more valuable if they are less experienced makes me sick. Its like guys have this special disease on their penis that is directly linked to disrespect and our vaginas are these glorified fire hydrants they hike their leg and pee on, making them forever tainted.

Its the stupidest, most childish ideal a guy can have in my opinion and I would drop a guy flat if I got even the slightest inkling that he felt this way.

 

In my eyes, it would make HIM beneath ME.

 

It would make all the sense as getting jealous of his hand would.

[genki]

Im sorry but I dont play a double standards game. Im not one of those guys that is experienced yet is unhappy when their partner is experienced or maybe even more so than them.

And its not about lack of chances or whatever, I have had tons of chances so if it was simply about losing my virginity or sleeping around or if I viewed sex as such a meaningless act as friction on penile tissue within the vagina then sure. But unfortunately im one of those poor souls that believe in true love and waiting for the right person and hence I would not lose it to anybody. Even with her I havent lost it and if it was just simply shag her and move on I could have done that more than 7.5months ago.

 

And some of you that are sitting on your high horses get back down to reality. None of you would want or could deal with all the information I have.

 

Its not that Im secure about myself but its the disgust I feel knowing somebody else has been there.

 

And yes trust I guess is an issue because Unlike me where I came totally clean and told her she has sort of dripped and drabbed and at times I had to extract it because things didnt make sense. She took a very long time till finally she told me what happened to her the 1st time and now looking back she saying the 1st one ruined her life and she just wanted to feel loved and wanted and when drinking her inhibitions would go down etc. All of it meaningless.

 

I just dont know what to believe. Is she being honest about the 1st? Because it took her a long time to say that and even then only upon seeing me cry twice. Did she say it to make me feel better? She had no photos etc of the 1st guy.

 

 

ANd I guarantee that were it not for me believing in being a decent guy and believing in true love and being responsible I would have walked away a long time ago. ALL of you gauranteed would have walked away right after your 1-4th shag and said shes got wayy too much baggage to handle and time to move on which would further compound her issues.

 

She says just like me she believed in waiting and thought she could take care of herself and when the 1st guy took it away from her she felt dirty and hopeless and didnt have anything anymore to protect. But its all very confusing for me. If it was always the alcohol and you feeling you had nothing to protect why didnt you **** those guys that made out with you or any other guy?

Why not anybody

else after you came back? Why did you know to always have protection on? Howd you get horny and be able to function if you were so drunk??

 

If you guys think its perfectly ok and youd be perfectly happy knowing your wife has licked someone elses cock intimately and sucked them and shagged etc and you have visuals from photos you saw yourself and have a smart brain(that can put 2 and 2 together) then your fooling yourselves.

 

Most guys would not ask nor want to know. Most guys would have a history of their own or 1 up on her.

 

She now says that her past is the biggest mistake of her life and something she regrets from the bottom of her heart. She should have waited and would have 100% waited had she known I was in her future.

 

Now she doesnt know what to do. She cant do anything about it and neither can I. She tells me that I deserve much better than her and If i want to walk away because of her past she will let me go.

If I do that it would devastate her and I know that for a fact.

[Cobra_X30]

Genki,

 

I understand exactly where your coming from on this!

 

My question to you is this. What do you plan to do about this?

 

If you walk... it will hurt her more than any of the others ever could. Is that something you can live with?

 

If you stay... your going to have to come to terms with her past, but thats going to take LOTS of work... not just from you, but from her too. Is she worth that effort to you? Do you believe that you could get past this at some point?

[genki]

Genki,

 

I understand exactly where your coming from on this!

 

My question to you is this. What do you plan to do about this?

 

If you walk... it will hurt her more than any of the others ever could. Is that something you can live with?

 

If you stay... your going to have to come to terms with her past, but thats going to take LOTS of work... not just from you, but from her too. Is she worth that effort to you? Do you believe that you could get past this at some point?

 

Finally a voice of reason and not of hypocrisy.

 

Thats why im stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

See I know I love her and were it not for her sordid past would have no issues with her.

 

I also know because I love her that leaving her would really hurt her more than anything because she does love me from the depths of her being and has shown me in more ways than 1 what shes willing to do.

I am confused.

 

Is she worth me staying? Yes because of how I feel. But at times I also im in doubt. I question my own worth to her and what shes worth to me. Ultimately I dont know if I can ever forget her past but maybe I can forgive and move on but this is totally dependant on how she acts and how she treats me and how she behaves and what i see from her etc.

I sincerely dont know If I can ever get past it. Im willing to try for her but thats all I can say. But then ive read of cases of where people have been married for 15 years or so and it still haunts them.

 

I know somethings for a fact:

Had she told me at the onset I would have walked away. And she says she thought I might be a virgin but didnt think that maybe a guy like me would have liked to know?!

 

Had she told me before I fell for her I would have walked away.

 

Had she not been who she is I would walk away.

 

 

I know and she knows that considering the hardships ive faced in my life and all the temptations ive had and how much ive held out that I do deserve better. But now things and my feelings are so convulated that I dont know. Part of me says walk away you deserve better, you gave her some of your firsts like kiss etc but you atleast wont give her your virginity and regret it. Same part says but if you do you might be making the biggest mistake of your life. Another part says you cant do that to her shed fall apart and would be a wreck.

 

Another part says she deserves a chance and that you should try and understand how ****ed up that 1st guy made her and she deserves a 2nd chance and that she has only lied about a past shes ashamed of now and has cried over many times but has not lied about the present etc.

 

Just dont know.

[sally4sara]

If you want to walk away without hurting her further, then you need to explain this the way my bf (a MAN who has read your posts) perceives your view point:

 

"I am not secure enough in my extremely limited sexual experience to accept you as an individual who existed before I met you and made choices that any individual has a right to. I am waaayyyy too immature to accept anyone fully and I will only make you feel bad for things you cannot go back and change. I do not respect anyone's right to live for themselves and make their own mistakes to learn from without forever focusing on the mistakes rather than focusing on what lessons you may have learned from them. For this reason I am letting you go find someone who will be able to appreciate and love you as the person they met and not the person you use to be."

 

He also said he wishes you tons of awkward, fumbling virginal sex in the future once you have found your virgin girl. You will likely find that neither of your virginities will make your Victorian ideals work in the real world well enough for the relationship to last. He says the real fun starts after you've lost your virginity, the relationship ends, and you try to find some other fleeting standard to live by and use to look down on others who don't live by it as well.

 

But I guess my guy is just irrational.

[Cobra_X30]

If you want to walk away without hurting her further, then you need to explain this the way my bf (a MAN who has read your posts) perceives your view point:

 

He also said he wishes you tons of awkward, fumbling virginal sex in the future once you have found your virgin girl. You will likely find that neither of your virginities will make your Victorian ideals work in the real world well enough for the relationship to last. He says the real fun starts after you've lost your virginity, the relationship ends, and you try to find some other fleeting standard to live by and use to look down on others who don't live by it as well.

 

But I guess my guy is just irrational.

 

Hmmm... I believe that you have fully failed to grasp the situation!

 

I would be shocked and dismayed to find that a woman I planned to marry had lied to me about her religious beliefs. Thats basically what this is.

 

You judge and yet you dont understand!

 

I'd say your guy isnt irrational... I'd say he is just unable to understand how someone with different values thinks. Perhaps that is because he lacks his any of own.

[sally4sara]

Hmmm... I believe that you have fully failed to grasp the situation!

 

I would be shocked and dismayed to find that a woman I planned to marry had lied to me about her religious beliefs. Thats basically what this is.

 

You judge and yet you dont understand!

 

I'd say your guy isnt irrational... I'd say he is just unable to understand how someone with different values thinks. Perhaps that is because he lacks his any of own.

 

You are talking about the most honorable and intelligent man I've ever met. He would never look down on anyone as it is one of our lowest and laziest flaws as humans.

[genki]

You and your guy have both ****ed around. What you just stated is the viewpoint of someone whose ****ed around. Once you have ****ed around so much all you can do is compromise on your ideals and call them victorian or far fetched etc.

 

Im sorry but I dont subscribe to your ideals of ****ing around all you want without consequence on your future. YOUR PAST MADE YOU WHO YOU ARE.

 

And dont lecture me on failures or marriage failures. If your formula for success worked so well why is it that we (US, UK, AU, etc etc etc) have the highest divorce rates in the world????

 

Its not hard to imagine is it? When you have experienced so much sex and relationships a part of you dies. The part that was romantic and an idealist and believed in true love. And is replaced by something that is willing to compromise but even then to a point.

 

You wouldnt hesitate leaving your BF once he pushed too far and you wouldnt stand for it. Why? Because of your past. If his cock was too small youd prolly leave him. If he didnt satisfy you appropriately youd move on. If he didnt treat you nicely and pamper you with love and gifts like Edwardo youd move on. Youd have many reasons to move on since there are other fish in the sea and no matter what you say you will always look back and reflect on things and think I deserve better or this and that guy didnt do this or thatetc.

Whereas people who wait try their best to make things work and have less reasons to break apart.

 

You guys all need to look deep down in your hearts without your delusions and hypocrisies and compromising attitudes. Would you really not deep down love to be the first guy in your wife? If you truly loved somebody ofcourse it would hurt to think that your wife has been around. Likewise would you reallly not like to be the first for your husband?

 

Sex you can practise learn and experience together which makes it all the more special and its not rocket science so dont give me the compromised deluded reason that youd rather have someone experienced because you are basing that on your compromised ideal and your past. And besides like I said sex is not rocket science and with some practice together you would get it down packed easy.

 

Every guy I have asked upon some soul searching and probing admits that they would love to have someone whose never been done or anything and they can simply learn what needs to be done and experience it together. EVEN the players have stated the same. Likewise the females also have stated the same.

 

NO SANE human would want that special person, that someone that they love with all their hearts, that someone that theyd be willing to risk their life for, that someone that they spend all their fortune on, that someone that they love every part of her/his body to have been around or shared with others and most certainly not with somebody who got it so easy and did so little. Thats what true love is.

Its not your compromised BS of oh well everybody does it and has done it so ill just settle with what I can get.

 

Besides since when has it been cool to do what everybody else does? Just because everybody sleeps around doesnt make it right nor ideal nor cool. Any loser can **** but it takes a person with strength and character to say no!

 

If I was a loser with no prospects then Id understand and take it as my best option. But im not. Im attractive, big(everywhere), and exceptionally long lasting. And I have pushed women gently of me who wanted a shag and have refused many. I could easily be a player but I chose not to and never compromised. This would be the biggest compromise ever.

 

And just so you know in many parts of the world very few people would want her because unlike our modern cultures others dont compromise on their ideals so quickly and infact in some parts of the world what shes done is a crime. Virginity and the security that would come with that is a big deal to many people around the world.

 

Its just the lack of ideals and beliefs and compromising on them and our faiths that have gotten us to where we are today. Besides its always easier to be bad and promiscuous than pious and good!

[Cobra_X30]

You are talking about the most honorable and intelligent man I've ever met. He would never look down on anyone as it is one of our lowest and laziest flaws as humans.

 

Well, you both missed the point in a terrible and judgemental way!

 

You do not have all answers of the universe, and until you recognize that fact you cannot, or rather to the point will not understand the dilema Genki faces!

 

I'm very sorry to say this, but poeple like you and I sacrafice something when we go searching for "experiences". I'm not so stupid as to think this makes us better.

 

I know for a fact that I have lost some of my idealism, some of my romantisizm, some of my trust in the opposite sex, because of my relationship hopping.

 

Ive spent my life training myself for a divorce... Do you realize that?

 

No, probably not. Genki represents something I didnt know I lost until it was gone. I've thought about it in the past.... and I've realized this.

 

Perhaps you should put some thought into this too.

[genki]

And if your ideals were so right Why is cheating more and more becoming the norm and acceptable in our cultures???

Our maybe we should all embrace Japans system where all guys go to BJ bars and Hookers because they are paid for with no emotional attachment and delude ourselves into that its not cheating and its alright????

 

With all these experiences and outlets why even marry? Whats the point?

 

We will all have lost so much hope, romanticisim, trust, have emotional baggages of our own and so much experience that divorcing is only natural and well take it since its the easiest way out.

 

But then again I bet you arent happy with being cheated on nor japans ideals either right?

 

You just dont realize how much you have lost and how much you have compromised.

 

 

And had I not waited just for her and went around screwing and relationship jumping do you really think id have a delimma here? You have no idea how much I have given up for her:

I have given her a lot of my firsts and i feel like crap that to her it would have been a repitition and not something that special. My first hug, first kiss, nudity etc all of what i have shown her which were firsts for me would they really mean anything to an experienced person like her?

 

Had I not waited and held back do you think any "normal" guy would have cancelled their confirmed flights for leaving the country because they got involved with you? And even later when he did leave to visit family/friends come back? And keep losing money by being at a crappy job he hates so he can be with you?

I know had I hopped around I wouldnt have been here and given up so much for her. Just like you guys know there are not many people out there that would stay at a job they hate and low paid just for you. Not leave the country and cancel their flights just for you. Lose money just for you. Spend a ton of cash on you and surprise you with flowers, chocs etc all the time. Even come back just for you.

This is what she gets in return because I waited and i hadnt compromised.

 

In return all I got was the typical distrust. I mean for ****s sake she wanted me to **** her yet she wasnt willing to trust me with her credit card or even show her teeth to me!!

 

Had I been a "normal" guy she would have gotten a shag and been dumped promptly. Just like she said the 2nd guy who claimed loved her etc and told her so dumped her as soon as she came back within 2 weeks or so because she missed him and he couldnt handle it. Though it pains me im still here for her and not being selfish thinking of myself like most people would. Its called self sacrifice.

[sally4sara]

Genki, I do not disrespect your choice to not sleep around. I do not think sleeping around is the better way to go. I do not feel that gifts and large penis are good staying points for maintaining a relationship. I believe a large part of why I value my relationship so much is because we have both chased away all the jaded views we aquired through failed relationships for each other. We are happier because we know how bad it can be and what we have NOW has made us happier than we've ever been. He is not horse hung, he does not often buy me material gifts. As for your examples of being push too far.......no piece of paper or lack of other past partners makes it okay to stay in an abusive relationship and I believe THAT is having standards too.

What I am pointing out is that they are standards you've set for yourself and that is good. Everyone should have standards we set for ourselves. But when you talk about this you always focus on what women should want (living for that moment where one mystery man they've yet to meet puts his penis in her for the first time). It stops being about standards you've set for yourself and starts being about applying these standards to others and looking down on them if they don't measure up. And if you find someone who does measure up, it all depends on if you can control not just your actions forever, but their's too.

I'm trying to point out that if all of your ideals define this girl as unworthy to you NOW, you have every right to continue your search. But what will you do if that person....dies early in your marriage, in unhappy with your relationship and leaves, turns permanently psycho and must be institutionalized (these things happen)? What standard will you be worthy of then? What standard will you seek. Because no one knows the future, no one can really say "this is the only person I will ever be with". Would someone who was in those kind of circumstances be deemed unworthy?

Cobra, jaysus! I find OP to be less offensive. His words appeal to you (as you've admitted) by and large due to your own mistakes and past. YOU have no right to hold any female up to these standards as you don't fit them. You are no virgin and bitter because of your own choices. I feel you hating on women from here. His words are not in favor of you simply because you have a penis. A female you would not measure up either.

[sally4sara]

A female member of my family married still a virgin. She converted to his religion (christian based) and birthed two children. She tolerated affairs, she followed her husband to many states due to employment changes and promotions. He was cold, patronizing, and selfish.

After 30 years of marriage he wanted to trade her in for a new model.

 

But who would love her!? A used woman! She had no virginity to offer!

 

She is six years later, happily (for the first time) married to a wonderful guy who obviously isn't so impressed with a hymen.

[genki]

see what you are now doing sally4sara is very demeaning. Your making it all about the hymen and are forgetting everything else.

 

Your also forgetting the sanctity of marriage. And in terms of that member of your family i would have not had issues getting married to them because they waited for marriage and so would have illustrated that she was a decent woman.

 

 

Im sorry but I dont agree that a hooker deserves a saint for a husband or vice versa. You sow what you reap.

 

 

Your happy for now sure and maybe he is too. But how long will it last till he gets tired of you or you of him and start looking elsewhere and quit asap?

 

 

What your saying is that you have to go through **** and become **** so you can understand and appreciate cleanliness. What Im saying is you know what **** is like and you can simply avoid it.

 

Your advocating giving in to your carnal desires and going around screwing etc and then complaining that nobody loves you and guys are pigs yet never take a second and think hold on which guy would truly love me if i oepned my legs for them within 1-2months of dating them?

 

 

And do you know anywhere as much detail as i do about his past? or him about yours? go and spill it all then come back and see. and where would you draw the line?

 

 

Would you still look at him the same way had he slept with 59women? what if he was a pornstar? what if he was a serial rapist or a murder?

[Lyssa]

I've had relationships with Asian women. I've found them to be caring, loving and compassionate and extremely loyal. They are tremendously family oriented and take relationships/marriage very seriously. It's part of their culture and society.

 

Very true. My aunt married an Australian (a very nice chap! recently passed away) and his friends have been asking for us to introduce Asian women to them. It is in our Asian (no, am not Japanese, Chinese or Indian) culture and for most of my friends and I have gone abroad and back, we still hold onto our culture.

[genki]

Very true. My aunt married an Australian (a very nice chap! recently passed away) and his friends have been asking for us to introduce Asian women to them. It is in our Asian (no, am not Japanese, Chinese or Indian) culture and for most of my friends and I have gone abroad and back, we still hold onto our culture.

 

 

Dont bunch all asians into 1 group. There are all sorts and not all asian cultures are family orientated.

 

 

And if these people loved asians so much and thought they were so decent why not find one and marry them? Why the need to go through a few of them?

 

In the end all they are doing is ****ing these women literally and figuratively and some poor chap has to deal with them later on.

 

 

Virginity is not a big deal here in Japan. Infact youve got better chances of find a virgin in US, UK etc than here because christianity just doesnt happen here. You might find a virgin here amongst the christians or some extremely well brought up(rarety in itself) individuals.

 

I keep hearing from all these guys how great asian women are bla bla bla but why did you leave that great gal then eh? Simply because of your past and how easy you find it to move on and so any excuse will do for you not to commit! butterfly's , mistakes, etc etc etc

 

However 2hrs flight away in Korea and virginity is a big deal. A high percentage of S Korean women are virgins upon marriage and so are the guys too. But ofcourse theres a growing hypocrite male population that wants to fool around yet want untouched women. Philippines, Thailand, all the islamic countries, African countries, some of those island nations, some tribal places etc virginity is a big deal! Women who arent virgins upon marriage are shunned and a disgrace to the family and are liable to automatic divorce.

 

Im not advocating hypocrisy. What im saying is a guy whose waited deserves someone whose waited. Not a guy whose played around thinking he deserves a woman whose waited because thats plain hypocrisy.

[Lyssa]

Dont bunch all asians into 1 group. There are all sorts and not all asian cultures are family orientated.

 

I didn't say there isn't any other culture out there that are family oriented. Part of me is European and relatives on that side are family oriented. I was brought up in an Asian culture so I was stating what I was brought up with.

 

Im not advocating hypocrisy. What im saying is a guy whose waited deserves someone whose waited. Not a guy whose played around thinking he deserves a woman whose waited because thats plain hypocrisy.

 

I'm just wondering with you going back and forth with all this - what are you doing with your GF? I mean what's the latest?

[Trialbyfire]

If you need someone who's as sexually pure as you, go find someone else. I personally think your g/f is full of it, since the stories keep changing. No one can ever forget a real rape unless the whole incident gets completely repressed. I also feel that in your dishonesty with her, you reap what you sow. Neither party is innocent.

[genki]

I didn't say there isn't any other culture out there that are family oriented. Part of me is European and relatives on that side are family oriented. I was brought up in an Asian culture so I was stating what I was brought up with.

 

 

 

I'm just wondering with you going back and forth with all this - what are you doing with your GF? I mean what's the latest?

 

 

No what I meant is dont just classify a whole people as Asian and expect them to behave in a certain way. I have travelled and lived throughout Asia and I can tell you there are all sorts and all kinds of cultures.

 

 

What do you mean the latest? I havent found a solution yet to the dilemma hence why I came here. If your asking in the sexual context still no sex ONLY because I have stopped her and not wanted too.