Fiancees Past haunts me to no ends. Driving me crazy!

[genki]

I did not lie to her. I merely let her believe what she wanted. She thought I had slept around and had tons of girls and I didnt correct her. I never stated anything. Then later on I told her that no I was a virgin and she was like "wtf r u serious? a guy like you?" then she started questioning me like had a BJ? eaten out ? to which all answers were truthful.

 

She on the otherhand actually DID LIE. Not simply let me believe what I wanted but actually LIED.

 

You wont believe the amount of emotional baggage and scarring I have had to deal with from her because of her past. She was very messed up and this was from the beginning before I knew anything of her past.

[Geishawhelk]

Excuse me...?

All along I had played this game where I let her think I had slept around before.

Don't play word games with me. They might have worked on her, but you're still a liar.

she believed it and you did nothing initially to put her right.

That's deceitful.

Ergo, you're a liar.

 

So?

If it's that bad, why are you still there?

Back to the pay-off....

[genki]

Excuse me...?

 

Don't play word games with me. They might have worked on her, but you're still a liar.

she believed it and you did nothing initially to put her right.

That's deceitful.

Ergo, you're a liar.

 

So?

If it's that bad, why are you still there?

Back to the pay-off....

 

If i was decietful by letting her believe her own assumptions without saying anything to encourage or debunk them then im guilty.

 

Almost all the time when I have revealed to early who I am women seem to want to jump my bone. I guess to tag me first as it were or something. So I stopped doing that.

 

Pay off I guess is i do love her and life would have been a fairytale minus her past.

[genki]

tripper: from these relationships with asian women what did you gain?

 

did you commit or marry any one of them?

 

Or did you shag them and then dump them and moved along with some other poor sod having to deal with the emotional scars left by you

?

[Cobra_X30]

I agree with you. But genki is the one who said he had no past and it didn't count for any of this. But he lied to her and told her he'd had sexual experience, when in fact he was a virgin.

What was his agenda then? Why be deceitful? If he's got no issues with his own past, he'd be completely comfortable discussing it - wouldn't he?

 

Granted, and I agree it shouldn't be the case. but it's genki who's made such a massive issue of her past, not the girl herself. I think the reason she seems to have so much baggage is because there's a possibility he's accused her and judged her into a corner....

 

Read it all back, and see what you think...

 

The way I read it, is that this girl assumed he was more experienced!

 

Most women value men with experience and tend to look poorly on guys who dont.

 

Men are the opposite. We value inexperience. Therefore he is in a less than ideal situation which is complicated by deception and now deep feelings.

[Tripper]

tripper: from these relationships with asian women what did you gain?

 

did you commit or marry any one of them?

 

Or did you shag them and then dump them and moved along with some other poor sod having to deal with the emotional scars left by you

?

 

 

Both relationships were long term; 3 years and 4 years. Both women had been in several previous relationships as I had. Both eventually wanted to marry but I wasn't ready for that having divorced from a long term marriage so we parted company. My loss in many ways... as they were both lovely, intelligent hard working women.

 

As far as "some other poor sod" having to deal with emotional scars, I wouldn't know as I haven't kept in touch with them. The real point tho' is that life is dynamic and we all live through it making mistakes. If we could see the future we might not make those mistakes.

 

You need to do some serious work on yourself and some major thinking. Your gf is a product of her life to date. If she is what you would want in a life partner AND you can accept her with her flaws then, fine. But if this is going to be a big issue DO NOT waste any more of her time or cause her any more pain. Let her find someone who can love her for who she is, today, not what she's done in the past.

 

I'm no angel, but my recommendation to you is that you need to get laid. I'm serious. Sex for the sake of sex is simply penile friction in a vagina. Sex in a loving committed relationship can be the most over the top, beautiful experience so much so that casual sex will pale. And you have no reference point.

[Tripper]

The way I read it, is that this girl assumed he was more experienced!

 

Most women value men with experience and tend to look poorly on guys who dont.

 

Men are the opposite. We value inexperience. Therefore he is in a less than ideal situation which is complicated by deception and now deep feelings.

 

Cobra, couple of points...

 

Men also tend to inflate numbers of sexual partners and women tend to lower the numbers. Over all the numbers should be pretty much the same unless there are some women out there racking up big numbers.

 

Also this dude played head games with her and it came back to bite him in the a$$. Now he's blaming her for his own self-created misery.

[Cobra_X30]

Cobra, couple of points...

 

Men also tend to inflate numbers of sexual partners and women tend to lower the numbers. Over all the numbers should be pretty much the same unless there are some women out there racking up big numbers.

 

Also this dude played head games with her and it came back to bite him in the a$$. Now he's blaming her for his own self-created misery.

 

Well, we may not agree with his tactics, but that doesnt completely invalidate his point.

 

So, ask yourself this. Why do men tend to inflate numbers? Why do women tend to lower them?

 

I think within that answer lies the reason Genki is feeling so insecure about this!

[Tripper]

Well, we may not agree with his tactics, but that doesnt completely invalidate his point.

 

So, ask yourself this. Why do men tend to inflate numbers? Why do women tend to lower them?

 

I think within that answer lies the reason Genki is feeling so insecure about this!

 

Agreed, good point. But it is his insecurity that he needs to work on. And also learning to be more compassionate and understanding of human fallibility.

 

His attitude is a "throw the baby out with the bath water" one. He admits that it could be "fairytale". Heck we all know that it doesn't exist. You ain't never gonna find the perfect person.

 

In the final analysis he should consider himself the lucky guy. She loves him and is willing commit to spending her life with him. You can't get much better than that.

[Geishawhelk]

The way I read it, is that this girl assumed he was more experienced!

 

Most women value men with experience and tend to look poorly on guys who dont.

 

Men are the opposite. We value inexperience. Therefore he is in a less than ideal situation which is complicated by deception and now deep feelings.

 

Yes, it's commonly known as 'double standards.'

And whatever the reason, whatever the justification, lying is no excuse.

The truth will out which leads to recrimination, and lack of trust. best to keep to the truth and eventually find the person who both cherishes and respects that.

What's so difficult about that?

[dbtmarley]

G,

 

Dude her past is her past! Why does it matter what positions she has tried? Why does it matter if she has performed oral? When she did this did you know her even? Weren't you with someone else when she was in these other relationships?

 

Man you can deny having insecurities to us, but at least admit it to yourself. It should not matter what she has done before you, only thing that matters is what she does with you. If you love this girl you need to take a second and look at how you are sabotaging your relationship with her.

[dbtmarley]

So, ask yourself this. Why do men tend to inflate numbers? Why do women tend to lower them?

 

 

The formulas to get the exact numbers are below:

 

Men # slept with divided by 3= actual number

 

Women # slept with multiplied by 3= actual number

[Cobra_X30]

Agreed, good point. But it is his insecurity that he needs to work on. And also learning to be more compassionate and understanding of human fallibility.

 

His attitude is a "throw the baby out with the bath water" one. He admits that it could be "fairytale". Heck we all know that it doesn't exist. You ain't never gonna find the perfect person.

 

In the final analysis he should consider himself the lucky guy. She loves him and is willing commit to spending her life with him. You can't get much better than that.

 

Therin lies the rub.

 

He doesnt really know how she feels or what she thinks. If she had the same experience level as him... then his insecurity would be minimized. So I really question whether this is 100% his problem to deal with.

 

Treating symptoms is worthless without tackling the disease! It takes time to build trust, and by leaking out the truth drip, drip, drop fashion she is actually taking trust away.

 

It sounds like he set the record straight about his experience in one fell swoop and explained why he felt and did what he did. This is the way it should be done! Do we expect people to disclose thier past relationships right away?

 

I dont, but when they do, I expect to have a basic frame all at once. I'm not going to walk around like Eugene Levy in "Best in Show", if you know what I mean!

[Cobra_X30]

Yes, it's commonly known as 'double standards.'

And whatever the reason, whatever the justification, lying is no excuse.

The truth will out which leads to recrimination, and lack of trust. best to keep to the truth and eventually find the person who both cherishes and respects that.

What's so difficult about that?

 

Double standard? Maybe but plays out on both ends. You know that as well as I.

 

When was the last time you went looking for a guy who had no experience with women?

[Tripper]

Therin lies the rub.

 

He doesnt really know how she feels or what she thinks. If she had the same experience level as him... then his insecurity would be minimized. So I really question whether this is 100% his problem to deal with.

 

Treating symptoms is worthless without tackling the disease! It takes time to build trust, and by leaking out the truth drip, drip, drop fashion she is actually taking trust away.

 

It sounds like he set the record straight about his experience in one fell swoop and explained why he felt and did what he did. This is the way it should be done! Do we expect people to disclose thier past relationships right away?

 

Again agreed. But then there are 2 "diseases" here. One is the lack of trust because he found out about her past in drips and drabs. The other is dealing with her past.

 

But if we move away from discussing the hows and whys and move to the "what ya gonna do's" then it matters little how he got here. Once the genie is out of the bottle it's not going back in...

 

I tend to be a pragmatist. He or she can't undo what's been done. So he needs to cope with this. Courses of action are, from my point of view:

• Accept it and move forward
  
• Don't accept it and move on.
  
• Get therapy to work out the personal issues
  
• Get couples counseling to repair the damage to the relationship.

The fact he calls her his fiancee indicates they have agreed to marry. To me his maturity level and actions don't indicate that he is ready for this kind of a commitment and has some maturing to do.

[Geishawhelk]

Double standard? Maybe but plays out on both ends. You know that as well as I.

Yes, that why it's called 'double'....

 

When was the last time you went looking for a guy who had no experience with women?

 

I never have actively 'looked' for a guy with no experience with women. I have met a couple, and they were really nice, honest and great fun. but I wasn't available at the time. If not, it wouldn't have stopped me going out with them.

[Cobra_X30]

Again agreed. But then there are 2 "diseases" here. One is the lack of trust because he found out about her past in drips and drabs. The other is dealing with her past.

 

But if we move away from discussing the hows and whys and move to the "what ya gonna do's" then it matters little how he got here. Once the genie is out of the bottle it's not going back in...

 

I tend to be a pragmatist. He or she can't undo what's been done. So he needs to cope with this. Courses of action are, from my point of view:

• Accept it and move forward
  
• Don't accept it and move on.
  
• Get therapy to work out the personal issues
  
• Get couples counseling to repair the damage to the relationship.

The fact he calls her his fiancee indicates they have agreed to marry. To me his maturity level and actions don't indicate that he is ready for this kind of a commitment and has some maturing to do.

 

The only problem with that approach as I see it, is that its 100% based on him.

 

Since its a shared and mutual issue, simply saying "get over it" doesnt work. How is he supposed to simply get over it while that trust deficit remains?

 

What really needs to happen, is she needs to get very honest and start building trust with him in a very big way. Then he needs to begin tackling his personal insecurities.

 

So as I see it, the only long term viable option is #4 as you have them listed. They could do this without counseling, but its always good to have a qualified outside opinion.

[Tripper]

 

So as I see it, the only long term viable option is #4 as you have them listed. They could do this without counseling, but its always good to have a qualified outside opinion.

 

Yep and they're not mutually exclusive. He can also go to work on himself with therapy at the same time. I wouldn't try to do this alone tho', I'd find a good therapist.

 

Gawd, sometimes I miss the my youth in the '70s. Back then the answer would have been get blasted with some wine and good weed, then get laid... <wistful smile>...

[Cobra_X30]

Yes, that why it's called 'double'....

 

Well, technically its called a double standard because the same number of partners would be view good for one gender and bad for another.

 

My implication was that standard applies both directions. IE... men with low experience are just as undesirable to the general population as women with high experience.

 

I think you got that... I'm just clarifying for anyone else.

 

I never have actively 'looked' for a guy with no experience with women. I have met a couple, and they were really nice, honest and great fun. but I wasn't available at the time. If not, it wouldn't have stopped me going out with them.

 

So it would be safe to say you do not view this as a positive attribute in a man?

[Geishawhelk]

There is nothing either positive or negative about it. It's just the way it is.

I personally tend not to evaluate a person on what they do, I tend to evaluate them more on who they are.

I don't give a fiddler's elbow whether they've had zero, six or sixty partners. it's the kind of person they are with that information, that is the important thing.

 

To me.

[Cobra_X30]

There is nothing either positive or negative about it. It's just the way it is.

I personally tend not to evaluate a person on what they do, I tend to evaluate them more on who they are.

I don't give a fiddler's elbow whether they've had zero, six or sixty partners. it's the kind of person they are with that information, that is the important thing.

 

To me.

 

There is a direct correlation between who they are and what they do.

 

Besides, in saying that it doesnt matter to you... your basically saying that it isnt a positive trait! I understand that you dont take it negative also, however... its not something you value. Do you see the difference there?

[Geishawhelk]

No, it's not a question of it having no value...It's a question of it having no

relevance.

I take on board what you say about what a person does correlating with what they do, but it's not a constant. Experiences do 'colour' a person, but they too, have to evaluate whether their experiences are Positive, Negative or Neutral, for them. And thus it affects them.

The guys I happened to meet who were virgins were very matter-of-fact about it. One was down to religion, the other down to finding the right girl, but neither considered them to be a big, prominent or significant issue.

 

Virginity seems however, to be a big issue here. Therefore I think there's a whole lot more than meets the eye.

It would be nice to have her version of events, don't you think?

[Cobra_X30]

No, it's not a question of it having no value...It's a question of it having no

relevance.

I take on board what you say about what a person does correlating with what they do, but it's not a constant. Experiences do 'colour' a person, but they too, have to evaluate whether their experiences are Positive, Negative or Neutral, for them. And thus it affects them.

The guys I happened to meet who were virgins were very matter-of-fact about it. One was down to religion, the other down to finding the right girl, but neither considered them to be a big, prominent or significant issue.

 

Virginity seems however, to be a big issue here. Therefore I think there's a whole lot more than meets the eye.

It would be nice to have her version of events, don't you think?

 

It is relevant, in that it shows you how the person views thier own sexuality. I am not so niave as to think I will change that in a person! I do not expect a woman to change who she is and how she views herself because of me.

 

If she mistakes intimacy for sex, or uses it as a tool to make men like her, I'm not going to be able to change that. Only she can, and most dont really change that long term.

 

So, when you say that you dont care... essentially your saying your partners view on sex doesnt matter to you. At least thats how I read it.

 

The reason experience is a hot topic on this board is because of insecurity, more than anything.

[Tripper]

No, it's not a question of it having no value...It's a question of it having no

relevance.

I take on board what you say about what a person does correlating with what they do, but it's not a constant. Experiences do 'colour' a person, but they too, have to evaluate whether their experiences are Positive, Negative or Neutral, for them. And thus it affects them.

The guys I happened to meet who were virgins were very matter-of-fact about it. One was down to religion, the other down to finding the right girl, but neither considered them to be a big, prominent or significant issue.

 

Virginity seems however, to be a big issue here. Therefore I think there's a whole lot more than meets the eye.

It would be nice to have her version of events, don't you think?

 

 

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Virginity or lack of seems to be the big issue and that, my friends, is where each individuals moral compass points differently.

 

If his moral belief is that one should remain a virgin until marriage and hers doesn't then there is a major divide to overcome. That said he has no right to impose his moral standards on her. Now certain moral standards are guaranteed by law but this ain't one of them.

 

With respect to both of you, you may have to agree to disagree due to differing value systems. Ones not better than the other there both just different.

[Geishawhelk]

Oh absolutely Tipper, we're just discussing and defining, not arguing...and I agree, there is no right or wrong with regard to this specific question. Just difference, as you say.

Bang on.

 

If you'll pardon the expession....!