Finally gave in to the ex and am back in therapy

[Spinderella]

Fun,

 

Can you answer these questions please?

 

Have you ever been with a man who you trusted fully, for a long period of time?

 

Who do you have to compare the "relationship" with the therapist to?

 

Do you look at what IS or do you look at what COULD BE?

 

Are you waiting for someone to take control of your life, or do you take full control of, and responsibility for your life?

 

Do you KNOW that most of your life, isnt just something that happens to you, it is something you create?

 

Do you know that you can NEVER change another person?

 

Do you know you ALWAYS have the power to change yourself?

 

Do you want to be a fully grown responsible woman, in charge of her life, who goes out and gets the very best there is?

 

Can you even imagine the above?

 

Do you want to be in a relationship with a man who you:

 

never doubt?

 

never question?

 

never have to talk about on an advice forum?

 

never feel uncomfortable with what he asks of you sexually?

 

never wet the bed in the night with anxiety over?

 

trust?

 

are happy with, as the situation is, right now?

 

Thanks

[LucreziaBorgia]

The session went much better. He gave me an extra hour where he had an cancellation so I feel that made up for the time spent physically.

 

No doubt you paid for it. How is that making up anything? If he didn't charge you for the session, then that would be 'making up for it'. Instead he just found a way to take more money from you. So, he has sex with you all session and charges you for it. Then he makes up for it with a non-sex session that he charges you for. How many checkbooks have you gone through? How much have you already spent? Is it in the thousands? Are you going into debt?

 

He also invited me to attend a class he gives at his house once a week in the evening, so that has made me feel much better since it's not like he is ONLY interested in seeing me in our sessions. At least it's a start. I mean he used to invite me to his other class in the past so this is much needed at a time I was falling apart.

 

Only a class A scumbag would take his OW into the home where his wife lives, regardless of the circumstances. I can't believe that you see this as a positive thing. In fairy-tale land, where you and he end up together - won't you feel a crawling in your gut every time he goes to work, every time a young pretty thing comes into your home for 'class'. I will bet you a large amount of money his formerOW/nowW does. She will see right through you two. Remember: she was right where you are now. She will know exactly what to look for. But... my guess is that he will arrange for her to be out, and your "class" will be you and he having sex. That will show his love, right? Will he find a way to bill you for this too? If he is calling it a class, he will. Have your checkbook ready. You have no doubt shelled out thousands to be this guy's OW. Whats a few hundred, thousand more?

 

We also had a talk today where has asked me if I think he's exploiting me and my vulnerability. I looked at him straight in the eyes and said "You tell me. Are you exploiting me?" He said not unless you think I am. So that makes a lot of sense. If I am taking it in a positive way, that he loves me, then he's not. If he loves me but I feel hurt by it then it would mean he is. He doesn't want to exploit me so by asking me, it kind of took away a lot of the fears I had and I think has had a calming effect on me.

 

So, in other words - yes, he is exploiting you by violating ethics, abusing you, and taking your money for having sex with you on the clock. He only asked you because he wants to make sure that he has you where he wants you and will either manipulate you into thinking that what he is doing isn't wrong, or he will make a note in your chart that you are "delusional".

 

He is telling you through a deflection method of manipulation that he is exploiting you, and that whether or not you are being exploited is a matter of perspective. ABUSE LIKE THIS ISN'T A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE. He is breaking the law in some states, and is violating ethics in every state. He is taking your money for having sex with you. He is convincing you that if you think its "love" then its not wrong. I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS GUY. I can't believe YOU.

 

Man, this guy is good. He has you right where he wants you, AND he gets paid by you for the privilege. And, he has a willing victim.

 

Stockholm syndrome. Clearly.

 

I wish someone could help you Fun, since you refuse to help yourself.

[Spinderella]

Good point LucreziaBorgia,

So he is making sure you hold yourself responsible, "not unless YOU think I am". Clever.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Fun, in case you don't get to see it - I wrote this note to you on my BC thread:

 

Fun, your problems are very important and certainly not trivial. I think that if any one of us could go to where you are and find a way out for you, we'd do it. People here care about you, and care about what happens to you. Some of us sound angry but I assure you that focus of that is not on you, rather what happens to you.

[norajane]

IWe also had a talk today where has asked me if I think he's exploiting me and my vulnerability. I looked at him straight in the eyes and said "You tell me. Are you exploiting me?" He said not unless you think I am. So that makes a lot of sense.

 

If I am taking it in a positive way, that he loves me, then he's not. If he loves me but I feel hurt by it then it would mean he is. He doesn't want to exploit me so by asking me, it kind of took away a lot of the fears I had and I think has had a calming effect on me.

 

And if he doesn't love you but is just pretending to so he can continue having sex with you?

 

He's exploiting you regardless of whether you think so or not. In fact, if you don't think he's exploiting you, that just means he's manipulating you very expertly.

 

He's taking your money to have sex with you in his office. As a therapist, he's exploiting you as his patient and manipulating you into thinking you love him and need him.

[bunset]

 

Man, this guy is good. He has you right where he wants you, AND he gets paid by you for the privilege. And, he has a willing victim.

 

Stockholm syndrome. Clearly.

 

I wish someone could help you Fun, since you refuse to help yourself.

 

I was wondering when someone would apply this label. It fits.

Fun, I, LB and the others would take you by the hand and bring you to 2-3 other therapists, so that you would know how awful this is for you.

 

We fear for you mental and physical well-being.

 

Why do you deny that another therapist can help you?

 

I can offer you no more than prayers, now.

[whichwayisup]

LB is so right. FUN, don't you think his wife WILL see 'something' there? An energy? The way you look at HER husband? How are you going to feel when you're there, and he kisses his wife, or holds her hand, or gently puts an arm around her infront of you? How will you react? Think about this...

 

It's not flattering at all to be invited to his house, for a class...

 

He's so manipulating you, yet making it seem like YOUR choice. He knows exactly what he's doing and it's a form of brainwashing and abuse!

 

We also had a talk today where has asked me if I think he's exploiting me and my vulnerability. I looked at him straight in the eyes and said "You tell me. Are you exploiting me?" He said not unless you think I am. So that makes a lot of sense. If I am taking it in a positive way, that he loves me, then he's not. If he loves me but I feel hurt by it then it would mean he is. He doesn't want to exploit me so by asking me, it kind of took away a lot of the fears I had and I think has had a calming effect on me.

 

He is using your weaknesses against you, he knows your vunerabilities and knows how to get the perfect reaction and answer out of you.

 

Take a giant step back and try to see this from another angle.

[Fun2BMe]

if its at his HOUSE, i guess his wife won't be too far away, so any after session nookie will be out of the question.

 

I'm not looking for after session nookie. In case you are missing part of what is bothering me, I want to spend more time with him, not necessarily in a physical manner and outside the therapy room.

[Fun2BMe]

Fun,

 

Can you answer these questions please?

 

Have you ever been with a man who you trusted fully, for a long period of time?

My ex who ended up cheating.

 

Who do you have to compare the "relationship" with the therapist to?

I've always been cheated on so maybe that's why my tolerance level is so high.

 

Do you look at what IS or do you look at what COULD BE?

Both - I see that he loves me, and of course I look at the future as far as where that could lead to.

 

Are you waiting for someone to take control of your life, or do you take full control of, and responsibility for your life?

NO, never. I have always been in control of my life. I've never relied on someone for anything - financially, emotionally and every way.

 

Do you KNOW that most of your life, isnt just something that happens to you, it is something you create?

That sounds like a general statement I can't concretely make sense out of. Yes, I agree with the statement. I try to make the most of my life, things happen, I make other things happen. In some cases I am passive because it is someone else making things happen just like when I am making something happen, then naturally the other person involved in that situation is the recipient of that, so basically it is give and take - not just take and not just give, if that makes sense, and I think you'll agree with.

 

 

Do you know that you can NEVER change another person?

I would disagree somewhat with that statement. For example I go to therapy for behavior changes, such as training to be more assertive and so on.

 

Do you know you ALWAYS have the power to change yourself?

Given that I have the tools and know how to, which in most cases I don't as don't a lot of others. It's not like I have a degree in behavior modification to know what steps to take.

 

Do you want to be a fully grown responsible woman, in charge of her life, who goes out and gets the very best there is?

That's what I strive for.

 

Can you even imagine the above?

I do feel like I am in charge of my life. All of my bills are written out from my own checkbook with my own hands. I support myself, choose where to go and whom to associate with. I'm not lying down saying poor me, I have no control in my life, someone else is calling the shots and taking care of me and I am at their mercy. That was only the case while I was supported by my controlling mother back in the day.

 

Do you want to be in a relationship with a man who you:

 

never doubt?

 

never question?

 

never have to talk about on an advice forum?

 

never feel uncomfortable with what he asks of you sexually?

 

never wet the bed in the night with anxiety over?

 

trust?

 

are happy with, as the situation is, right now?

 

Thanks

Well, I don't live in Disneyland. I'm not going to want something so impossible that it will leave me feeling depressed and unfulfilled. I don't know of anyone in a perfect relationship...and thanks to you too....

[Fun2BMe]

Fun, in case you don't get to see it - I wrote this note to you on my BC thread:

 

Fun, your problems are very important and certainly not trivial. I think that if any one of us could go to where you are and find a way out for you, we'd do it. People here care about you, and care about what happens to you. Some of us sound angry but I assure you that focus of that is not on you, rather what happens to you.

 

Thanks LB. I was feeling guilty for even caring about my problems when you have a very bigger one...Anyways I am grateful for everyone for caring so much. One minute I feel that everything is ok, but even right now I am already feeling upset all over again, reading into things, driving myself nuts. I've told him how it bothers me that he has a wife so why would he want me to be near her? Maybe she won't be present?

 

Maybe he feels guilty that he is keeping me a seccret when he told me to never be in a relationship where I won't be introduced to family and friends as was the case with one of my ex's and he told me to never be in a relationship that's not committed, so what is he doing to me? I am going through ups and downs faster than ever before and it's getting worse and worse. But from experience the moment I see him everything seems to be ok all over again and the cycle repeats only the downs are getting worse and the ups last for shorter periods of time.

[Fun2BMe]

 

Why do you deny that another therapist can help you?

 

I am at a place where I still have feelings for the therapist and don't want to end things or go behind his back to another therapist, especially deep down I have a negative impression of therapists and think if I ever stop seeing this one I will never get near another. If it is female, I imagine her to come on to her male patients and vice versa.

 

I am reading that 51% of therapists ADMIT that they have had sexual relations with a patient, let alone how many more haven't admitted. I am just so fed up and wish I didn't have such strong feelings for someone who can't be with me more than the amount of time he is giving me.

[Fun2BMe]

And if he doesn't love you but is just pretending to so he can continue having sex with you?

 

He's exploiting you regardless of whether you think so or not. In fact, if you don't think he's exploiting you, that just means he's manipulating you very expertly.

 

He's taking your money to have sex with you in his office. As a therapist, he's exploiting you as his patient and manipulating you into thinking you love him and need him.

 

Can you understand why it is so hard for me to believe this? When he says he loves me, when he acts very concerned about my well-being and reassures me he's not exploiting so I don't have any doubts? At the same time I am naturally starting to have doubts if everyone else is doubting, but my experience with him tells me otherwise, so that's why it's so hard to come to these conclusions.

 

I mean if someone told you your SO doesn't really love you, would you just take their word for it if you felt he did and he said he did? I think that's why it's so hard for me, but at the same time I"m coming to a point where I wish I could believe that so maybe it would make it easier to leave a situation that leaves me feeling so sad and empty whenever I am not with him, which as some of you have pointed out, is 99% of the time.

[Fun2BMe]

LB is so right. FUN, don't you think his wife WILL see 'something' there? An energy? The way you look at HER husband? How are you going to feel when you're there, and he kisses his wife, or holds her hand, or gently puts an arm around her infront of you? How will you react? Think about this...

 

It's not flattering at all to be invited to his house, for a class...

 

He's so manipulating you, yet making it seem like YOUR choice. He knows exactly what he's doing and it's a form of brainwashing and abuse!

I was at a class of his many months before, where his wife was present. He said something like he is only attracted to his wife when he was making a point about something, and it hurt me deeply. I couldn't believe he'd say that in front of me and didn't understand why, unless I thought his wife was sensing there was somethign between us and he was reassuring her about their relationship.

 

She used to be at his office early on in my sessions, then she started being unfriendly towards me after which I never once saw her there again so I always wonder if she ever sensed something before we were even physical, which I know doesn't make sense and maybe I'm reading into things too much. He always tells me to stop reading into things.

 

 

 

He is using your weaknesses against you, he knows your vunerabilities and knows how to get the perfect reaction and answer out of you.

 

Take a giant step back and try to see this from another angle.

But how do I know this to be the case? What if he really loves me? Why is that not a possibility?

[tomwiz]

you know that because he is using a position of power to prey on someone else, I really wish I knew who this guy was so he could be reported.

[Spinderella]

But how do I know this to be the case? What if he really loves me? Why is that not a possibility?

 

Because if he loved you, you wouldnt be posting here.

You wouldnt be wetting the bed with anxiety.

He wouldn't be charging you for his time.

 

The list is endless

 

Thanks for answering the questions.

Its a shame that you think a healthy, normal relationship is some crazy fairytale fantasy. But it makes more sense now why you would settle for so little.

[Spinderella]

I was at a class of his many months before, where his wife was present. He said something like he is only attracted to his wife when he was making a point about something, and it hurt me deeply. I couldn't believe he'd say that in front of me and didn't understand why, unless I thought his wife was sensing there was somethign between us and he was reassuring her about their relationship.

 

 

Which gives you a clue, about how well this guy can lie about things, and how good he is at reassuring people about something which is not true.

 

Doesnt it?

[Fun2BMe]

Which gives you a clue, about how well this guy can lie about things, and how good he is at reassuring people about something which is not true.

 

Doesnt it?

 

How can I know if he's lying? What should I tell him or ask him? How would I know if he's being honest about the answers? I am starting to feel desperate now.

[norajane]

Can you understand why it is so hard for me to believe this? When he says he loves me, when he acts very concerned about my well-being and reassures me he's not exploiting so I don't have any doubts? At the same time I am naturally starting to have doubts if everyone else is doubting, but my experience with him tells me otherwise, so that's why it's so hard to come to these conclusions.

 

I mean if someone told you your SO doesn't really love you, would you just take their word for it if you felt he did and he said he did? I think that's why it's so hard for me, but at the same time I"m coming to a point where I wish I could believe that so maybe it would make it easier to leave a situation that leaves me feeling so sad and empty whenever I am not with him, which as some of you have pointed out, is 99% of the time.

 

I understand that you're in a very confused place, which makes it difficult for you to sort out what is 'real'.

 

And I get what you're saying about other people telling you that your SO doesn't really love you.

 

However, I've always been taught that saying 'i love you' is less an indication of love than the actions behind the words. Loving someone is an action, and loving someone means behaving in a loving way toward them.

 

Are your therapists' actions loving toward you?

 

He's married, so he can't introduce you to family and friends - in fact he must HIDE you, or his whole house of cards falls down. Hiding you is not a loving action.

 

He is having sex with his wife. That is not a loving action toward you.

 

He does not call you and chat about his day or yours, tell you jokes, or make plans to see you. In fact, unless you send him an SOS text or email, you have no contact with him at all outside your sessions. MM who are involved in affairs see and talk with their OW's a hell of a lot more than that!! That is not a loving action toward you.

 

He never comes to visit you at home to cuddle, to rent DVD's, play Scrabble, whatever. That is not a loving action toward you.

 

He doesn't do anything with you outside his office because he is married, and he knew he would do nothing, and he still started this with you. In fact, he knows he is hurting you by continuing this affair with you because he cannot be a lover and friend in any sense of the word when he goes home to his wife every single night. Yet, he chose to get involved, stay involved, and is taking you deeper into this affair every week. INVOLVING YOU IN THIS AFFAIR IS NOT A LOVING ACTION TOWARD YOU.

 

As a therapist, he knows that you cannot get good advice from someone who is not objective - his advice is tainted by his own self-interest. Continuing to be your therapist while remaining involved in this affair with you is not a loving action toward you.

 

Requiring that you pay him for therapy that you do not receive because you are having sex during your sessions is not a loving action toward you.

 

So all you are left with is the sex. In his office. During your sessions. Which you pay him for.

 

How is that love? Even through your fog, surely you can see that love isn't just sex. Love protects, it does not deliberately inflict harm on one person for the sake of having sex one or two hours a week.

[Fun2BMe]

I understand that you're in a very confused place, which makes it difficult for you to sort out what is 'real'.

 

And I get what you're saying about other people telling you that your SO doesn't really love you.

 

However, I've always been taught that saying 'i love you' is less an indication of love than the actions behind the words. Loving someone is an action, and loving someone means behaving in a loving way toward them.

 

Are your therapists' actions loving toward you?

 

He's married, so he can't introduce you to family and friends - in fact he must HIDE you, or his whole house of cards falls down. Hiding you is not a loving action.

 

He is having sex with his wife. That is not a loving action toward you.

 

He does not call you and chat about his day or yours, tell you jokes, or make plans to see you. In fact, unless you send him an SOS text or email, you have no contact with him at all outside your sessions. MM who are involved in affairs see and talk with their OW's a hell of a lot more than that!! That is not a loving action toward you.

 

He never comes to visit you at home to cuddle, to rent DVD's, play Scrabble, whatever. That is not a loving action toward you.

 

He doesn't do anything with you outside his office because he is married, and he knew he would do nothing, and he still started this with you. In fact, he knows he is hurting you by continuing this affair with you because he cannot be a lover and friend in any sense of the word when he goes home to his wife every single night. Yet, he chose to get involved, stay involved, and is taking you deeper into this affair every week. INVOLVING YOU IN THIS AFFAIR IS NOT A LOVING ACTION TOWARD YOU.

 

As a therapist, he knows that you cannot get good advice from someone who is not objective - his advice is tainted by his own self-interest. Continuing to be your therapist while remaining involved in this affair with you is not a loving action toward you.

 

Requiring that you pay him for therapy that you do not receive because you are having sex during your sessions is not a loving action toward you.

 

So all you are left with is the sex. In his office. During your sessions. Which you pay him for.

 

How is that love? Even through your fog, surely you can see that love isn't just sex. Love protects, it does not deliberately inflict harm on one person for the sake of having sex one or two hours a week.

 

Now that is a reality wake-up. Very painful to read but is making me angry, which i think I need to feel in order to start the process of getting away from the situation...

[Spinderella]

How can I know if he's lying? What should I tell him or ask him? How would I know if he's being honest about the answers? I am starting to feel desperate now.

 

Thats the trouble, because you cant know by what he says to you.

You can only go by (as Norajane has just pointed out), his actions, and how you feel.

 

You wont ever work out if someone is lying to you or not, based on what they say. All you can do is look at the reality of the situation, which you can see (the facts), and how you feel inside.

 

If you feel anxious alot of the time, then thats a good indication, that your mind is wrestling with a part of you that has a deeper knowledge.

So if you feel anxious AT ALL, then something is not right.

[blind_otter]

It hurts me to see you suffering so much, Fun.

 

It took me a long time to find the right therapist. I went through a lot of them, both men and women. I decided to go with a female therapist because I have issues with women and I wanted to confront that head-on.

 

I found a good therapist and I've been with her for a year now. I see her once every 2 months now because I've made such progress. Her goal is to get me to the point where I don't need to see her any more. That's the goal of a good therapist, IMO. A good therapist doesn't see you as a gravy train that they have to cultivate in order to keep getting paychecks.

 

Your therapist is NOT a good therapist. He is not a good man. He is manipulative, lying, conniving, selfish, self-centered, perhaps even narcissistic. You are doing yourself a lot of damage by continuing to see him professionally, nevermind personally.

 

I wish you were stronger and more self-aware.

[LucreziaBorgia]

She used to be at his office early on in my sessions, then she started being unfriendly towards me after which I never once saw her there again so I always wonder if she ever sensed something before we were even physical, which I know doesn't make sense and maybe I'm reading into things too much. He always tells me to stop reading into things.

 

She would be able to sense something, even the very beginnings of it because she was a patient having an affair with him just like you are now. She would know it in the way you looked at him, the way your body language was, the way he looked at you, and his body language because she would know exactly what to look for. Even if she didn't, she would be afraid of that because if he cheated on his first wife with her, what is to stop him from cheating on her with a new patient? She would know all of the lies and excuses, because she conspired with him to perpetuate those lies and excuses with his first wife.

 

You better believe that she will take out the maximum revenge if she catches him. She will bring that house of cards right down.

[StaringContest]

you know that because he is using a position of power to prey on someone else, I really wish I knew who this guy was so he could be reported.

 

I wish I knew who he was so I could go beat the piss out of this sick bastard. I'd let Fun come and kick him a few times if she wanted. Somehow I don't think that's what he had in mind when he said he wanted her to watch him urinate.

 

He does not call you and chat about his day or yours, tell you jokes, or make plans to see you. In fact, unless you send him an SOS text or email, you have no contact with him at all outside your sessions. MM who are involved in affairs see and talk with their OW's a hell of a lot more than that!! That is not a loving action toward you.

 

He never comes to visit you at home to cuddle, to rent DVD's, play Scrabble, whatever. That is not a loving action toward you.

 

Fun, this is something you (and everyone) deserves... a real relationship.

 

Now that is a reality wake-up. Very painful to read but is making me angry, which i think I need to feel in order to start the process of getting away from the situation...

 

Right on, sistah! You ought to be mad at this jackazz. I think you should print off that post from LJ and carry it with you at all times, so that you can read it and remember what a jerk he is whenever you start missing him.

 

And I still think you should take a break from him and clear your head.

[sb129]

Do you want to be in a relationship with a man who you:

 

never doubt?

 

never question?

 

never have to talk about on an advice forum?

 

never feel uncomfortable with what he asks of you sexually?

 

never wet the bed in the night with anxiety over?

 

trust?

 

are happy with, as the situation is, right now?

 

I don't live in Disneyland, and I have a R that is as described above (apart from the odd little gripe on LS). And I have been an OW and experienced all the deception, excuses and highs/lows that go with it. I wasn't ina situation as bad as yours Fun, but I know how it feels to think "well, if I let go of this (no matter how destructive it is) what am I left with? nothing?"

I chose destruction over nothing for a long time. I wish I had chosen nothing much sooner- because it opened up a space in my life to find something healthy and normal like the great R I now have with wonderboy.

 

 

 

 

Now that is a reality wake-up. Very painful to read but is making me angry, which i think I need to feel in order to start the process of getting away from the situation...

 

Oh you don't know how amazing it is to hear you say that..... FINALLY a little breakthrough.

 

Still hoping you will get out of this and find happiness Fun- it is possible you know, it really is.

[dropdeadlegs]

Do you want to be in a relationship with a man who you:

 

never doubt?

 

never question?

 

never have to talk about on an advice forum?

 

never feel uncomfortable with what he asks of you sexually?

 

never wet the bed in the night with anxiety over?

 

trust?

 

are happy with, as the situation is, right now?

I don't live in Disneyland, either and this is a pretty accurate description of my relationship. Is he perfect? No, nobody is, but he's close enough to perfect for me.

 

Fun, you CAN have this! I didn't think so either, until I found it for myself. Like you, I didn't believe it COULD happen, and I settled for far less, for many years.

 

Like sb129, I wish I had chosen "nothing" over what I thought was "better than nothing" long before I did. I might have found happiness years sooner than I did. I'll be 43 this weekend and I only found something truly special shortly before my 40th birthday. I spent years with other men, married two of them, and what it all boils down to is that I was settling for less than I deserved. Finding someone who loves me the way I love him is absolutely priceless, and the best part is that it doesn't cost me a thing!