Finally gave in to the ex and am back in therapy

[whichwayisup]

Things are terrible to say the least. I have been reading a lot of the information on the sites and it's making me feel worse to think if it could apply to my situation. Weekends are hardest when I am away from him and imagine him to be with his wife and he doesn't even call but acts like he missed me and is in love with me when I see him for the appointments.

 

But that is just something you're going to have to deal with if you choose to stay on this path. Aside from being your therapist - He is married and has a life with someone else. Fact that he doesn't see/talk to you outside business hours, outside his office must hurt more. Most OW atleast get to see/talk to their MM alot during the week, and have time alone with them afew times a week or on the weekends...In your case, he's limited your time together on his terms, in his office - Where he has full control.

 

Ask yourself this - IS that a real, true relationship? Is that enough for you? An hour or two a week with him? Really think about your answers, be honest with yourself.

 

There is also two other very very big pieces to the story I don't think I could disclose, but would shock you and so it is so hard what I am going through I don't know what to do. As soon as I see him I feel things are back to ok but every day I am feeling worse and worse.

 

Then see that as many red flags flapping in the wind...Telling you that whatever it is IS wrong. Make yourself stop and think...Is this really what you want?

 

I don't want to believe he is exploiting or taking advantage of me. I want to believe what he tells me at face value, especially that I am the only patient he has done this with and feels this way about so it is very hard to be this confused and instead feeling hurt more and more.

 

I know you don't want to believe that he is exploiting you, taking advantage of you, but he is. You have no power over him, he has power over you - He is your therapist, he is trained to know what buttons to push, he knows how to get what he wants out of you BECAUSE he is a trained therapist and can read people...THAT is wrong as he is not helping you, he's using your weaknesses against you...

 

My guess is, in another year, women will be coming out of the woodworks complaining that this guy did to them what he is doing to you. It's gonna be a HUGE lawsuit against him one day...

 

Sooner or later someone will find out - Whether it be his wife, his secretary, or another client of his...I just hope by then you're strong enough to fight him, and not let him take advantage of you anymore.

 

Hugs..

[bunset]

Fun,

 

This sounds terrible and heartbreaking for you. You don't deserve this kind of pain.

Your pain appears to mount after every session with your male therapist.

That kind of dilemma can cause serious damage to your neuro-chemical balance. That has been known to be fatal, between higher risk of stroke, there is the possibility that having to think about your options so much could distract you from a critical task, maybe causing an accident.

 

Please seek out another FEMALE therapist to give some of these worries to. She'd have better insight into your options and could relieve some of the burden of falling in love with a MM who cannot give you the attention outside of his office that you are so very worthy of.

 

The sooner you do that the sooner some of this pain will subside, I'm sure of it. So many of us need more than one mode of mental health support. In your case, I don't believe group therapy would help, but a different kind of therapy could be the key to more peace toward getting the love you know you deserve.

 

Please let us know you will seek out another (2nd) opinion, from another woman therapist.

 

Still keeping you in my thoughts for healing....

[Fun2BMe]

Here's a couple quotes from that first site. They have little boxes of quotes from people who've been in a similar situation to what you're in now.

 

"At first, my counselor really helped me through a difficult part of my life. I felt like he really cared. I shared my deepest innermost self with him. Over time, he began telling me how hard his life was and how unhappy he was in his marriage. One day, he leaned forward and kissed me, the next thing I knew, we were making love right there in his office. I knew it was wrong, but for some reason, I just couldn't tell him NO. That was the beginning of what later became a nightmare in my life."

 

In my situation, he never complains about his wife, which makes me believe his feelings even more. If things are going well with his wife and he still has feelings that are strong enough for him to act out on and tell me he loves me, that makes me feel very strongly back towards him. Also the above person sounds like she wanted to say no, that she didn't have feelings for her therapist, but before the first kiss we had already established our feelings for each other.

 

 

"I admired him so much and I was flattered when he admitted that he found me attractive. At first it seemed so romantic. I don't know what happened. I feel like I lost touch with who I am and all that I believed about myself. This has hurt me so bad. I can't trust anyone anymore. I feel so alone in my pain. Each day, it hurts to even wake up."

 

Fun, please read those sites and see this for what it is. What he's doing is the worst kind of abuse. I'm concerned about you, and I don't want you to be hurt like those women.

 

In my case, I don't feel like I have lost touch with who I am. I think in the above cases, they never had the feelings for the therapist, but instead were trying to accommodate the therapist coming onto them, but in mine the feelings are mutual. The pain only involves the fact that I can't see him outside the sessions, which is very painful and is driving me out of my mind.

[Fun2BMe]

It sounds as though every time you become afraid of the truth, you run to him to reassure you of what you want to believe. He is good at reassuring you, it is how he keeps you there. When you are away from him, you begin to see the reality of things, and when you are with him, you allow him to convince you otherwise. The more you talk to him about your feelings, the more he knows what to say to reassure you.

What do you really want?

Do you wish you could be free?

 

That's an interesting observation. It's true that when I am not with him, I start to get frustrated and see things differently. When I am with him, it totally goes away and I feel in love with him and that things are great. Only when I leave I start to feel MAYBE I was used, maybe he doesn't really love me, maybe this is a messed up situation, maybe it will damage me...so many maybes that I feel like I will crack.

 

When he asked to talk about 'us' Monday, I said I didn't want to so he brought up a totally different topic, I said I didn't want to talk about that either. One thing after another I for some reason didn't feel like talking to him. He looked confused, so he brought up a topic he knows is sensitive for me, so basically by the end up the session (which only lasted about 15 minutes as the first 45 were of a physical nature) I had broken down at a time I thought I was going to have the courage to say I want only 1 session/week instead of 2 since I feel that I am getting better.

 

So whenever I feel like I am getting better with the issues I went to him originally for, he brings up stuff that make it seem like I have a whole other issue. In fact the first time things goit very physical was when I came to kind of a dead end talking about my issues, as though we had resolved everything and I thought the therapy would end then. Then it became physical and we would spend our sessions discusssing 'us', which is why when he wanted to talk about us last time, I was against it.

 

So Monday I went in feeling strong, left feeling a basket case (contrasting with sessions in the beginning days when I'd always leave positive and happy even if I went in miserable). I was so unhappy with the stuff we talked about that he even called me later in the day to see how I was doing. I didn't take his call but only texted back that I was ok, just a little emotional. He wanted to confirm that I would show up at the next session and not stop it just because the issues we were dealing with were getting more complicated. So I don't know if he is really helping me with the difficult stuff, or making them difficult so I stay or hell I have no idea what the heck is going on. Am I overanalyzing? I am so confused, hurt and feel lost.

[norajane]

You're not overanalyzing. What's happening is that he is CREATING more issues because of this inappropriate and damaging sexual relationship you are having. It is making you weaker and more confused. Your issues now are about the therapist, and no longer about what you came in for.

[Fun2BMe]

Fun,

 

This sounds terrible and heartbreaking for you. You don't deserve this kind of pain.

Your pain appears to mount after every session with your male therapist.

That kind of dilemma can cause serious damage to your neuro-chemical balance. That has been known to be fatal, between higher risk of stroke, there is the possibility that having to think about your options so much could distract you from a critical task, maybe causing an accident.

 

Yes, I do feel worse and worse AFTER each session, but in session I feel like wow he loves me and this is so special. I don't know why my judgement is so off that I can't tell what is going on, if it is good (as in really good, I will fight to have him) or bad (as in the description you give that it is damaging me). I just can't telll when I am usually good about these things. And I do feel distracted, like I'm in a daze and can't focus much lately.

[Fun2BMe]

You're not overanalyzing. What's happening is that he is CREATING more issues because of this inappropriate and damaging sexual relationship you are having. It is making you weaker and more confused. Your issues now are about the therapist, and no longer about what you came in for.

 

But for example when I refused to talk about us, precisely because I was thinkig he is creating the issue so that we can talk about it, he brought up something very personal that made me feel very emotional so I'm like he must be really good to know something that subtle about me and cares enough to want to discuss it, OR am I overthinking and he is just so into me and knows me that he can spot exactly what I need help on?

[sb129]

Yes, I do feel worse and worse AFTER each session, but in session I feel like wow he loves me and this is so special. I don't know why my judgement is so off that I can't tell what is going on, if it is good (as in really good, I will fight to have him) or bad (as in the description you give that it is damaging me). I just can't telll when I am usually good about these things. And I do feel distracted, like I'm in a daze and can't focus much lately.

 

So you are having a total of one and a half hours a week when you feel great about the situation. Less if you count in the fact that 45mins of each hour of "therapy" is having sex with him.

 

But for example when I refused to talk about us, precisely because I was thinkig he is creating the issue so that we can talk about it, he brought up something very personal that made me feel very emotional so I'm like he must be really good to know something that subtle about me and cares enough to want to discuss it, OR am I overthinking and he is just so into me and knows me that he can spot exactly what I need help on?

 

 

No, its because he is a "professional" who is trained to spot weaknesses in peoples psyches.

He exploits this training/ ability to manipulate you into thinking he is into you for his own gains (getting his rocks off).

 

You PAY for an hour of therapy and all you get is 15mins of BS which is basically him covering his tracks and reinforcing in your mind that he "loves" and "cares about you" so that you will COME BACK for the next session and shag (and pay) him again.

Thats all that 15mins does. It doesn't help you in anyway- its his insurance policy that you will continue to be his little ego stroking exercise, because its alot easier than grooming a new patient.

 

Fun could you please please please WAKE UP?????

 

This guy makes me sick.

[Fun2BMe]

 

Fun could you please please please WAKE UP?????

 

Well, I'm at the stage where I really just don't know so it is hard to 'wake up' because I think if I wake up, the reality is just as likely to be that he really loves me and now that someone really loves me this much I will mess things up, being in denail or whatever. But something that worries me is that he mentioned he wanted me to watch him urinate (I haven't done that yet) and for the first time in my life post potty-trained (at age one at that), I wetted myself in my sleep and don't know if it has to do wtih the anxiety I am feeling about that prospect? That is like really embarassing for me to admit, but I have no idea what is going on with my mind and body:o

[LucreziaBorgia]

So, you are paying the full amount for each session in which 15 minutes is "legit" and the other 45 are sex? My guess is that pretty soon, your entire session will be sex. Then, you'll be paying for the sex. With your money. With your heart. And with your soul itself.

 

That is sad, Fun. I feel sorry for you, and every other patient he is doing this to. He really should be arrested and incarcerated so that he can't hurt anyone else.

 

If he loved you, even a tiny bit - he would find you a legit therapist and spend time with you (and I mean REAL time, not sitting somewhere in his car or behind a building somewhere) - time in which you spend quality time. Not hurried sex. Time you don't have to write a check for each time.

 

I know he won't do that. You know why? Because you are willing to write him checks to have sex with him on his schedule, in a place that is most convenient for him, and in a context where his wife isn't likely to find out, and in a context where he can make the whole thing look like a delusion on your part if he is busted.

 

He loves himself, not you. He may say he does, but in your heart - outside of the sex you are paying for, do you see any real indication that he genuinely cares for you or intends to be with you in reality?

[underpants]

But something that worries me is that he mentioned he wanted me to watch him urinate

 

OMG,

 

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? Or anything else?

 

Your therapist needs therapy.

 

He should be paying you for that pleasure.

 

Oh, and yes...I agree with what everyone else is trying to tell you.

[blind_otter]

If I didn't have morals or self respect, I wouldn't be trying to get help here. I've said already that I feel guilty about the neighbor but am confused in case we were meant to be and I throw the opportunity away due to others judging me.

 

I call BS. If you had morals or self-respect you wouldn't BE in this situation in the first place. If you had self respect you wouldn't even consider screwing around with your married therapist, or your married neighbor.

 

I've been in your situation before. Not with a therapist or a married man, but with emotionally unavailable abusers.

[sb129]

the reality is just as likely to be that he really loves me and now that someone really loves me this much

The reality is NOT that he loves you. You ARE deluded if you think there is a shred of a possibility that this is the case.

 

People who love you and truly care about you do not contribute to your mental demise in this sick and twisted way. And they most certainly do NOT take payment for spending time with you.

But something that worries me is that he mentioned he wanted me to watch him urinate

What worries me is that you just drop this in casually as if its quite normal, and that you are worried about YOUR reaction to him saying that, not the fact that he said it in the first place.

Although I would be concerned about adult bed wetting.

I don't know anything about it, but its not a good sign.

 

Fun, I am really worried about you.

I am totally out of my depth giving you advice, Lucrezia and the others are doing a great job, but none of us are (to my knowledge) professional therapists, and you really really need PROPER therapy.

 

Your body is starting to react to the immense mental strain you are obviously under and trying to deny.

 

I am worried that if you continue to go on in this way, you are running the risk of having a serious breakdown.

[StaringContest]

In my situation, he never complains about his wife, which makes me believe his feelings even more. If things are going well with his wife and he still has feelings that are strong enough for him to act out on and tell me he loves me, that makes me feel very strongly back towards him.

 

Sorry, but if you read the OW forums, they have a term for that. It's "cake eater" as in they want to eat their cake and have it to. It describes the men who are happily married but want to have a woman/women on the side too. There are stories on that forum from women who thought the same as you and ended up horribly disappointed.

 

Also the above person sounds like she wanted to say no, that she didn't have feelings for her therapist, but before the first kiss we had already established our feelings for each other.

That's not the impression I got. To me, it seemed like she wanted to do it and had feelings for the therapist but knew it was wrong because it's illegal (and possibly because he was married).

 

Didn't you have any thoughts that what was happening was wrong? I think I remember you stating them here.

 

 

In my case, I don't feel like I have lost touch with who I am.

Really? I think you're lying to yourself, because your own words say otherwise:

 

I have no idea what is going on with my mind and body

 

Am I wrong?

 

I think in the above cases, they never had the feelings for the therapist, but instead were trying to accommodate the therapist coming onto them, but in mine the feelings are mutual. The pain only involves the fact that I can't see him outside the sessions, which is very painful and is driving me out of my mind.

I don't agree with you. I think you have more in common with them than you're willing to let yourself believe.

 

There are 168 hours in a week. So you have 2 hours of happiness. That's 1% of your life that's happy because of your involvement with the therapist. Wouldn't you rather have a relationship where you're happy at least 50% of the time if not much more?

[sb129]

Staring Contest- thats exactly what I was trying to say... 1% of your time spent happy, and the rest in turmoil, and being so anxious that your body is starting to show signs..

 

Its so sad.

 

Fun, even if the guy actually loved you and wanted to leave his wife etc (which is doesn't) he shouldn't be your therapist because he is too close to you.

 

You need need need need to get a new therapist.

 

I think you are too afraid to because deep down in your heart you know what they are going to say, and it will mean that your connection with your current "therapist" will be severed, and he will turn his back on you.

 

What does that truly tell you? It doesn't indicate that he loves you, thats for sure.

 

Love will not conquer all here. There is no love.

 

However, you won't heal unless you are ready to face your demons and WANT to heal. If you really wanted to heal, you would know that you need to get a new therapist, and you would go and get one.

[underpants]

I am sorry.

 

I still can't get past the urination thing.

 

He is so in your head that at the suggestion of watching him pee your body's reaction is to wet the bed. You are addicted to his mind f#*k.

 

I wonder if there is a way to research his patient list. I am willing to bet that is is largely if not all female. I would also want to know how many former female patients have wound up institutionalized after being in his 'care'.

 

Fun, just take some time away from him and go see someone else. It can't hurt to seek another opinion. You don't owe him an explanation.

[Lishy]

Jesus woman, you are paying this freak to fk with your mind!

 

Wake up and smell the coffee ... You are woman, not a girl!

 

Get a grip!

[StaringContest]

Fun, I hope you don't feel like the posts are negative and get intimidated away. I'd love to post something more positive, but there's not much positive about this situation. It's actually pretty scary what this is doing to you.

 

Try to remember when you read the responses that people care and are trying to help, not pick on you.

 

I know you don't want to take a chance that we're wrong about this guy and risk messing up a situation where somebody really loves you. But if he really does love you, he'll be ok with you going to another therapist and getting the help you deserve. He'll support your decision, leave his wife, and start a real relationship with you. If he doesn't do those things, you won't have messed anything up. You'll have proven what a scum he really is.

 

But I think someone else hit the nail on the head. Somewhere inside you know the truth, and you're afraid to face it. You don't want to find out he doesn't love you so you're making excuses not to do anything that'll put you at risk of finding out.

 

But remember that you won't find someone who really does love you if you keep holding on to someone who doesn't.

[Lishy]

You know the truth, stop denying it to yourself and look at it face on!

 

Look at your post as if it was one of us ....... How would YOU answer it?

[norajane]

But something that worries me is that he mentioned he wanted me to watch him urinate (I haven't done that yet) and for the first time in my life post potty-trained (at age one at that), I wetted myself in my sleep and don't know if it has to do wtih the anxiety I am feeling about that prospect? That is like really embarassing for me to admit, but I have no idea what is going on with my mind and body:o

 

Well, if that's not a wake-up call, I don't know what is. What will it take for you to see that you are being damaged by this guy? Will you have to end up in an institution? Or will you still turn to him even then because he 'loves' you?

 

Your body is telling you what your mind does not want to admit: he is hurting you very deeply, and for his own gain, not because he loves you.

 

Call a crisis hotline if you won't seek another therapist. Please, do something to get an objective person to help you. Because EVERYONE here posting in your thread is trying to help you see, and your own body is trying to help you see, and none of us seem to be doing any good. You will still insist that this is 'love'.

[Ssheena]

Really, the "watch me urinate" thing... wooo weee.

 

How about this suggestion... call another counselor. Look in the yellow pages or online or call a medical college, if you have one nearby, call a woman's hotline and tell them what is going on and ask them what they recommend.

 

You are being abused and I think your body and mind (the clear part at least) knows it.

 

Why are you putting up with this treatment? You aren't getting anything out of it at all.

[Fun2BMe]

I call BS. If you had morals or self-respect you wouldn't BE in this situation in the first place. If you had self respect you wouldn't even consider screwing around with your married therapist, or your married neighbor.

 

I've been in your situation before. Not with a therapist or a married man, but with emotionally unavailable abusers.

 

I understand where you're coming from BO. I would have said the same exact thing to someone else were they in my situation and I was giving my feedback, but unless you are in the situation, everything suddenly changes. That's one thing I have learned going through this, is to at the least try to never judge others any more unless you've been in the same situation.

 

I never planned on falling for the person in question - my therapist and top of it he's a MM. I think the neighbor was an escape. Compared to the therapist, at least he wasn't my therapist and seemed more available but yes, duh, he's married so thank goodness I snapped out of it but I still wonder after having feelings for a MM if they are possibly meant to be one's soul mate if they have such strong feelings for them, but I'll leave that for another discussion.

 

 

But I like your analysis that they are emotionally and in this case, physically (outside the office) available and that makes it very difficult to cope with.

[Fun2BMe]

I just wanted to update that I am doing much better than my previous post yesterday. The session went much better. He gave me an extra hour where he had an cancellation so I feel that made up for the time spent physically.

 

He also invited me to attend a class he gives at his house once a week in the evening, so that has made me feel much better since it's not like he is ONLY interested in seeing me in our sessions. At least it's a start. I mean he used to invite me to his other class in the past so this is much needed at a time I was falling apart.

 

We also had a talk today where has asked me if I think he's exploiting me and my vulnerability. I looked at him straight in the eyes and said "You tell me. Are you exploiting me?" He said not unless you think I am. So that makes a lot of sense. If I am taking it in a positive way, that he loves me, then he's not. If he loves me but I feel hurt by it then it would mean he is. He doesn't want to exploit me so by asking me, it kind of took away a lot of the fears I had and I think has had a calming effect on me.

[dropdeadlegs]

Since you choose to believe the best of outcomes, when will be the time to amp things up?

 

I'm still not convinced that things will work out in a promising manner, but I'm not you and not part of the situation.

 

At what point do you see him choosing you over everything else? And if that happens, do you get to keep your money, and what about your therapy? Will he still be your therapist?

 

I'm still having trouble seeing how this will pan out.

 

Above all, I really do care about how things pan out.

[sb129]

Once again, he uses his manipulation skills to reel you back in again.

 

How is this class going to make things better?

You won't be the only person there I presume, therefore he will have to treat you the same as everyone else there, and if its at his HOUSE, i guess his wife won't be too far away, so any after session nookie will be out of the question.

 

 

 

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we set out to deceive

- Richard III, William Shakespeare

This guy takes the cake.