will my wife ever come back to me

[CaliGuy]

Caliguy, I've ordered that book and am waiting for it. I am going through a very similar situation to confuzd right at the moment.

 

I totally understand and am living the difficult thing of craving some reassurance from my girl and any ounce of affection and doing this is counter productive as you and others have said many times.

 

While I wait for this book (the delivery says anything between 13 and 26 July) please could you expand on the essence of what the book says? What does it do to the girlfriend if you are needy and seek reassurance all the time?

 

What is the best course of action right now? Is this just some waste of time and we would be better off startin to try and get over the decision that she 'wants to be on her own' ie translates to 'does not want to be with you'?

 

I would imagine that there are others reading this thread and some of us have ordered that book. A little heads up on its content would be much appreciated as it may help us deal with things better right now.

 

The book just gives you the basic psychology of how to handle a failing marriage (and you can apply those to dating as well).

 

If you are too clingy/needy, then I would read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" - Glover. That is the book that will help you break free of your clingy behavior.

 

I would give a long explanation but reading those two books will give you more help than I ever can. They worked wonders for me.

 

Cheers.

[confuzd]

My friend told me that now that I have made the decision to really take this time to back off and to let her think, that I should expect the tests to really kick up. He says it is the only way to see if I am genuine. Men seem to be more straight forward

 

man- "do you love me"

woman "yes"

man is now satisfied

 

women do not just ask they put men through tests, it is up to us to recognize these tests and pass them

 

So here is the latest. yesterday there was no contact on my part, she came over dropped off my son, I was dressed for church (not to sound conceited) but I looked very good. She noticed and commented on how nice I looked, I could tell she was really checking me out, not that it matters.

 

so she gave me a hug and I gave her a quick kiss on the cheek and she was on her way. I did not call her at all that day.

 

Church was amazing, I am not the church going person, Im not big on organized religion, the whole my way is right and your way is wrong type of thing. I believe in god and want to be a better person.

 

so Im in church and within the first 15 minutes I am in tears, this has never happened to me before, I always used to think that people who cried in church or started jumping and stuff were just faking, but I definitely was not faking.

 

the sermon was on letting god solve the problems in your life, and about divorce. Wow I really needed that.

 

Anyways my wife calls that night I don't answer but call her back about 30 mins later, she says she was just calling to say goodnight to our son. so I give him the phone, she talks to him then hangs up. Normally we would've talked for a while but not tonight. I was upset at first so I called my friend, and he said that this is definitely a test. She wants to see if Im going to stay true to the whole space thing

 

She calls this morning and I just do small talk, and she asks about church, I tell her what the message was, and how god doesn't believe in divorce, by the way she grew up in church, I didn't so she already knew everything that I was telling her. After I was done all I heard was dissatisfaction in her voice

 

She says, "I have been trying to tell you that all along,god does not want divorce, it just upsets me so much that you all of a sudden now realize it"

 

She also said that its all hard for her to accept. she said she feels like I don't care anymore, and that I am being standoffish. I said that I wasn't and how could she say that when she didn't even talk to me last night,

 

this got her upset, and she immediately said, "you told me you were gonna give me space, see there you go flipping back" man she is dead set on proving to herself that I am flipping back, I said that I am not filipping back Im just trying to make a point that I am not being standoffish.

 

anyways she gets upset and says she needs to go, I say that's fine.

 

I feel she is really thrown back by the sudden lack of attention, and she is trying to do anything to get a spark out of me.

 

I called her back in 10 mins after she cooled down, and I told her that I am not mister holy roller, but that I feel the devil is still present, and it show by the confusion he is putting in our heads, you think one thing I think another. I told her I was not being standoffish, and that I did still love her, but I was not gonna stress over it anymore. I said if you can't accept that then there is nothing I can do.

 

I have made my point clear, I have not played any head games with you, I have always told you what is going on and what my intentions are. She said yeah in a way that it was like yeah your right, but I hate to admit it kind of voice.

 

she said she was going to the gym and that she would call me back when she was done.

 

after she got out I got a call, total attitude change. She was back to her nice self again, she told me her plans. We talked as friends, I flirted a little, just good conversation. We ended the call with a simple talk to ya later.

 

This is so crazy but she accuses me of being the one who is flipping. She is doing more flipping than IHOP (International house of pancakes, for those who don't know) I think it upset her that I am not getting upset and she is scared she is losing control of me.

 

I am no longer kissing her azz, Unless were talking literally LOL!! I am defnitely growing my Ballz back, but I am still vulnerable and I have alot of healing to do.

 

Any comments other than what books to read would be appreciated, no offense Caliguy, your advice has been great. I did order divorce busting, and divore remedy though can't wait to get them I have heard great things about those books.

 

can anyone relate, Is this similar to anyone elses story, what do you think about my wifes action?

[LTHP]

we are all creatures of habit. and it is very difficult to change especially when you are acustomed to behaving a certain way. Your wife in my opinion delibrately pushes buttons to see just how much you have changed. Good Luck to you and your wife

[confuzd]

we are all creatures of habit. and it is very difficult to change especially when you are acustomed to behaving a certain way. Your wife in my opinion delibrately pushes buttons to see just how much you have changed. Good Luck to you and your wife

 

is that a good thing, that she cares enough to push my buttons, and that she is actually interested in whether or not I changed?

 

update

Well she is flipping again, and it is really putting some conflicting thoughts in my head.

I love my wife like crazy, and I know I can make her happy, but the way she is acting is reminding me of what used to piss me off in the past.

 

I come home from the gym and my wife is at my house, she just brought my son home from camp, I take him everyday and she brings him home. She was sitting on the couch, when I walked in I walked over to her gave her a quick hug and kissed her on the cheek. Then I went into the kitchen to start cooking dinner for me and my son. I could tell something was on her mind. I asked her how her day was and she said okay, my son went upstairs to play some video games, and I was just singing to myself while cooking.

 

my phone rings and I go to answer it and this is when she puts on her shoes and starts to leave. I knew something was definitely wrong. I asked her what was wrong and she said nothing as she went for the door. I told her to hold on and she kind of huffed and puffed as she turned around. I told her to forget it then, and she just kind of stood there.

 

It was as if she wanted to leave but didn't at the same time. So again I said come here. she walked over to me and I asked whats wrong. she said nothing. I told her I knew her better than that and It was obvious something was bothering her, she said again nothing was wrong very unconvincingly. I said if something was wrong would you tell me, and she said yes. So I told her if she wants to talk to feel free to give me a call. she said ok and left.

 

So after she leaves I wait about 15 mins then I send her a text and tell her "I forgot to tell you before you darted off that you looked really pretty sitting on the couch, drive safe"

 

she texts back, "I didn't dart off, I felt unwanted so I left"

 

women I tell ya, didn't I clearly ask what was wrong. Didn't I sincerely try to talk about what was wrong, I could've easily cleared that up. that's the kind of stuff that pisses me off.

 

anyways I text back "Im sorry you felt like that, I asked you what was wrong, you should've communicated that to me, I am always open to communication, Im not doing things the way we used to with the whole guessing game, If you want to talk just give me a call"

 

she doesn't text back, For some reason I felt like I just needed to clear her mind, so I called a few hours later.

 

and she doesn't answer, obvious test, I wait fifteen and call again if she didn't answer I would not have called back, but she answers after about 5 rings. I told her that I called twice and she replies "I didn't know that" bull crap, I am so sick of these damn tests, you know good and well I called. sorry had to rant I really wanted to tell her that but that would've been the old me.

 

So I simply say that I was sorry she felt unwanted, and she said thanks and that it was okay. I asked why she felt like that and she said she just did and it was something she had to deal with. I asked her why she didn't just tell me when i asked what was wrong, and she said that it was something she had to deal with. I said okay then I just wanted you to know I didn't mean any harm. she said okay and that was that.

 

I really hope I can hold out, I love this woman to death, but I am scared to what extent she is going to test me. I would hate to have to really give her a piece of my mind, especially when all I am trying to do is make things right and be understanding. I must really love her, most people would've said screw it and walked away along time ago. Oh well I'm gonna stick it out the promise is worth pain, I have to remind myself that she went through alot of pain with me, and didn't give up.

 

I guess as long as she is testing me then she must actually care, and is really just giving me opportunities to step up and be the man she wants me to be. So when I look at it that way, I would rather be tested, than to have nothing at all. Bring on the tests........

[Reckless]

So tell me: when you were at the kitchen table and you both agreed to "space" what were the TERMS of that space or did you old habits of being unable to clearly communicate take president.

 

What you should have done is define together what that "space" meant;

 

hugs - yes or no

night personal calls/personal exchange of info - yes or no

kisses (initiated by eithe party) yes or no

daily compliments - yes or no

personal chats when exchanging the childrend yes or no

dates - yes or no

dinner at each other houses - yes or no

Also, how many weeks would this be? for one, two six two months before you move on? ("a few weeks" is too vague)

 

Maybe you should have got HER to write the "what does space entail" list and you could seek to modify if something seems impractical or unacceptable on it...

 

are you beginning to get the picture...(personally it for me it would have been "no" to all the above - remember this period should look different from when you are 'courting' her that comes later). Think of it this way, how would you treat her if both of you ended your marriage and you were both happilily married to new partners? Surely you would treat each other with kindness and respect, say "hi" even "how was your day?" but "fine/oh not so good" followed by "sorry to hear that" .. would pretty much be it). Your 'new partners' would hardly appreciate you saying how wonderful and sexy someone outside the union looked, or sitting in bed having intimate chats. So tell me what EXACTLY was this space you agreed on at the kitchen table.

 

Anyway are you beginning to understand the word COMMUNICATION and how you guys seem so bad at it (sorry but you are). You did a half baked job and are reaping the confusion that causes. You did not set any ground rules and so both of you are upset when you break each others rules (rules you are not aware of and so are bound to break).

 

I was reading your post and thinking what part of "space" are these two referring to? I think personally neither you nor your wife actually understand what that would entail, seems to me you'd better have another kitchen table chat and this time get it clear and on paper (not literally but you see the image - agreed rules). After that stick to the agreement for the agreed period of time.

 

I am not saying that this is the only way to proceed but confusion and frustration is reaped when things are not clear. WHATEVER you decide to do communication requires its clear and agreed on by both parties. Maybe there are principles as Cali is saying you can apply from the book you've read, maybe other books will help you (I really think you should be reading reading) but one thing is clear, you guys are terrible at communication. You better improve if you want your marriage to stand a fighting chance.

 

 

Good luck,

R

[confuzd]

hey reckless make sure you let me know how you really feel Lol...

 

I agree we still need to work on our communication.

 

As far as space, we agreed that space meant that I would stop with the questioning, relationship talks, the need for any type of emotional support from her. I assured her that I am not angry and am more than happy to talk, if she wants. basically we agreed that I am not going to pressure her. If she wants to hang out, then we can If I am available. If she wants to talk then we can.

 

basically that I will back off, Im not going to go into hiding but any actions that I take that put pressure on her, I will stop doing. On the same note, all the actions that brings us close together I will keep doing as well. I have to focus on actions that strengthen our relationship, not the ones that deteriorate them

 

I recommend anyone in my situation to go to divorcebusting.com they have some really great step by step archived information, as well as a ton of success stories.

 

I am reading alot of books, and am taking in everything I am learning. I understand there is no catch all solution. Some say NC, some say LC, some say romance her. I have to take it all in, see what works, continue what works, and immediately stop what doesn't work.

 

Relationship talks don't work , neediness doesnt work, saying I love you doesn't work when I say it to hear it in return. Questioning doesn't work, accusing doesnt work, jealousy doesn't work, telling her I changed doesn't work, convincing doesnt work, texting mushy messages doesn't work (because you want something in return), arguing doesn't work, losing your temper doesn't work.

 

However, understanding does work, empathy works, nice conversations work, patience works, listening works, affectionate words work when not expecting anything back, genuine compliments work, concern works, hugs work when it is to my wife feel good not myself, a loving kiss on the forehead works. Making her still feel important works, confidence works, self sufficiency works, respect works, strength works, and creating a happy environment when we interact in anyway works.

 

I love LS it has helped me out tremendously to be able to post my thoughths, but one thing I have noticed is that most people recommend NC here, while the DB website recommends an approach more like what I just laid out. After plowing through the pages here at LS, it seems that the Success stories are like a needle in the hay stack, while the DB website is full of them. I don't know just an observation. (when I say success story I mean reconciliation)

 

thanks for your input reckless, I appreciate you taking the time to post on this thread, no matter how much it stings to hear it some times I know I need to hear it.

[CaliGuy]

DBs probably follows a lot of the principals in Dr. Dobson's book.

 

You know. The one I suggested you buy and read. All the way through

[Reckless]

I am not one to mince words, sorry - I do pack a punch when I swing...

 

okay so you do have a "plan". Fine. So how exactly does phase I differ from phase II (phase two, you start begging again?)?

 

So you guys of "space" is you 'romance' her. Okay, well, this is what prompted the original post where I said I was worried about going straight to II no (real) I. And the reason was, as I stated this way each step you are alone without your wife saying if she is committed to what is going on (please note that committing isn't to getting back together simply to work whole heartedly at whatever stage you both are). And quite frankly, you don't 'ignore' or turn your back or cut the conversation short when you are 'dating' someone because the point is you are both 'committed' to getting (or at least letting your suiter get) as close as possible.

 

So if you are effectively courting her do it proberly. That is no doubt what caused the hard feeling in your latest update: if I thought someone was romancing me, trying to get as close as possble really trying to win me over, I would expect him to make an effort to show me everytime we met. No cold shoulders, no short conversations, hugs kisses and compliments yep, keep em coming.

 

I'm still not convinced that's the right way to go IN YOUR SITUATION but if that is where YOU BOTH ARE (and I'm actually not sure that is what your wife is ready for either, thus the rubber-banding forward and back) then there should be no undue frustration or confusion.

[confuzd]

Hey Caliguy, I did like the book, and I read it all the way through, It did have alot of good principles. "Everyone go get that book, it was well worth the money"

 

Reckless, We are definitely at stage I, I am just backing off giving her time to think. It is not NC though. I am not calling for the sake of calling, And when I do call it is not long and drawn out. I am not romancing her or expecting anything from her. If I see her I don't do the cold shoulder but rather treat her like a person I love, (maybe not so much like someone I am passionate about though, if that makes sense) It would be disrespectful for me to see my wife and treat her like a regular girl, and would just remind her of the old me. While at the same time I can't go in for the mushy kisses and stuff any more either. My goal is just to be someone pleasant to be around, and to create a pressure free environment, not a romantic one or a stressful one.

 

I said a "few" weeks, only because I did not want to put a date on it. i just wanted a reasonable time span with out the pressure of a deadline. So about the middle of August I will revisit our plan and see if she is ready for talks about where we are heading.

[CaliGuy]

Hey Caliguy, I did like the book, and I read it all the way through, It did have alot of good principles. "Everyone go get that book, it was well worth the money"

 

Reckless, We are definitely at stage I, I am just backing off giving her time to think. It is not NC though. I am not calling for the sake of calling, And when I do call it is not long and drawn out. I am not romancing her or expecting anything from her. If I see her I don't do the cold shoulder but rather treat her like a person I love, (maybe not so much like someone I am passionate about though, if that makes sense) It would be disrespectful for me to see my wife and treat her like a regular girl, and would just remind her of the old me. While at the same time I can't go in for the mushy kisses and stuff any more either. My goal is just to be someone pleasant to be around, and to create a pressure free environment, not a romantic one or a stressful one.

 

I said a "few" weeks, only because I did not want to put a date on it. i just wanted a reasonable time span with out the pressure of a deadline. So about the middle of August I will revisit our plan and see if she is ready for talks about where we are heading.

 

So what exactly did you learn from the book that you are going to apply to your situation?

[confuzd]

More journaling

 

I texted my wife just to say good morning, and to have a good day. Something simple no pressure. She texts back and says you are going to live a long life, I ask what she means by that even though I already knew. She says that when you are thinking of someone and they call then that person is going to have a good life.

 

So she just wanted to tell me that she was thinking of me, which she didn't have to do. She then calls about 10 mins later as she is on the way to the gym, and we have some good conversation. I then mess up and bring up an issue with our son.

 

Lately he has been very clingly and has been scared of certain things, last night he asked me about global warming (he is 7) and I told him what it was and he got kinda scared, that night he came in my room upset and said he was scared about global warming. I comforted him and told him that everything would be okay. I then said "your only 7 you should not be worried about the global warming crisis in our world" After I said that I could not help but to laugh.

 

then me and my son shared a good ten min laugh, anyways I mentioned to my wife that Im worried that he may be so clingy and insecure about his safety because of everything that is going on. Boy why did I do that, I learned a lesson real quick.

 

She immediately got defensive and said that she felt I was pointing fingers, and that this was not her fault, it was mine. I just remained calm and assured her that I was not pointing fingers and that she was not wrong for leaving. I was just concerned for our son thats all. I let her know that I understood how she could take it that way though. She then calmed down and I ended the conversation nicely.

 

so in mid afternoon I sent another text just to say hi again, " I told her that I was just saying hi while she was on my mind" I get a text back, "so Im only on your mind every once in a while now" I waited a minute and texted back "your so crazy, I was thinking of you and picked you up your favorite candy but I got hungry and ate it Lol. anyways I hope you have a stress free day"

 

so all in all it was not a bad, day I learned something not to do which is make her feel bad about the separation, even though that was not my intention. I did end up telling her that I support her decision and that I think she is a great mother and a wise woman.

She told me she was thinking about me, she calls me to talk. And she is concerned about me not wanting her which means she wants me to want her.

 

Til next time.

[Lizzie60]

For a little while now, I have this strange feeling, just by your writing style...

 

...I tend to replace all the 'her' and 'she' with 'him' and 'he'...

 

Weird heh???

[confuzd]

For a little while now, I have this strange feeling, just by your writing style...

 

...I tend to replace all the 'her' and 'she' with 'him' and 'he'...

 

Weird heh???

 

I'm not sure I understand. unless your saying I write like a gay person (nothing against gay people) if that's what you meant no I'm not gay, yeah weird commment. ta ta for now girlfriend lol.

[Krytellan]

OK, I know I'm a newcomer to this conversation, but I have a thought. And I also am tired so it won't be a long and thoughtful post like the ones you have been getting. I actually rarely visit the break-up and infidelity forums and I was introduced to your post from beginning to end this evening. My comment is simply this:

 

She is completely owning you. You talk about being stronger and showing her that you can hold back, but man, you really can't. And I hope somewhere along the way you find the ability to.

 

From what I can see, every time you take some form of stand and feel good about yourself, she needs only to say one thing about how you are flopping and you switch right back to the doormat attitude. A prime example was the her going to leave while you were cooking dinner and answering the phone. Man... the table was set. All you simply had to do was let her walk right out the door... or not, but make her decide. What do you do? You call her over and molest her with questions that ask if she's OK. WTF are you asking her that for? Why does it matter if she isn't OK? If she isn't OK it's because she's a big girl making big girl decisions and therefore impacting her OWN feelings in a big girl way. You don't need to comfort her for the feelings she creates for herself. So please, please, please stop pampering her from herself.

 

Not only that, but you also text her on the way home complimenting her and she comes back with a manipulative comment (tell me that you DO understand that many of the things she is saying to you is manipulative... please tell me you see this) and you basically flop and start falling over yourself to explain your actions. BAM, owned!

 

This post could be 10 more paragraphs, but I don't have the patience and writing this is actually pissing me off. It's pissing me off that someone (her) can do this to someone else and that the other person (you) cannot scamper around quick enough to apologize for the things you're being put through.

 

I'm sorry to be harsh, but I just can't see this go on any longer. Please understand that you are not prepared to change in the way necessary to make this work. If I could wish anything for you it would be that you wake up tomorrow morning deciding that you don't give a f*ck what she is thinking and that you started to become the selfish, emotionless pr*ck that you need to be.

 

She is owning you and will continue to own you until you finally learn - possibly 8 months from now when she introduces you to her new boyfriend and can't for the life of her understand what you're all upset about because you were the one who drove you two apart - that this is not going to be better. Whatever you did in your relationship she trumped by cheating on you. FOR CHRIST'S SAKE BE PISSED OFF AT HER!!! You are absolutely allowed to be mad at her... you know that?

 

Just don't do... THIS... anymore. I just can't bear it and don't understand how you can either.

 

I do love you man. This isn't easy. I apologized for the f*ucked up things my wife said and did to me for two years... right up until the day I snapped and walked out on her. I walked out of that house so pissed off I couldn't see straight and absolutely convinced that if I never had to look at her face again it would be too soon. Yeah, so I had some resentment issues. I'm through it. I did what I had to do and I can't imagine how I put up with it for so long.

 

The point is we all have our breaking point. How much more manipulation before you reach yours?

[LTHP]

is that a good thing, that she cares enough to push my buttons, and that she is actually interested in whether or not I changed?

 

 

[sIZE=2]I’m not sure if I understand your response and maybe because you didn’t understand my post. I apologize for not explaining my point a little better. What I was trying to say is for 8 close to 9 years (if I’m not mistaken, that’s how long you 2 have been married). Your wife told you for years how disappointed and angry she was at you. You, for years was not right to her. You both have come accustomed to “behaving" a certain way. It will not change over night. If you have truly changed and understand how you have contributed to the break up of your marriage she will see that, if that’s what she wants to see. My heart goes out to you. Your wife broke one her vows to you. Now true, you were wrong for the way you treated her, but your wife caused damage herself. She CHEATED. Then blamed you?? Infidelity is not a solution to a problem. It only adds to it.

 

Good Luck:)

[/sIZE]

[confuzd]

Man I'm scared to post anything else, Im getting beat up over here (and I thought my wife was bad) Caliguy doesn't think I read the book, reckless is tearing me up, lizzie thinks I'm gay, man what's a guy to do.

 

to all who are reading this and may be able to relate, take what you will from my posts. I've read others that have not gone nearly as well as this one. My wife is slowly coming around. If I end up failing and I never get my wife back then you have all witnessed what not to do. If I do get my wife back then you have witnessed what to do.

 

So take this thread for what it's worth. Most of us here have been hurt, that's why were on the board. The pain can cause alot of people to say things like "she is walking all over you" "your a doormat" "grow some balls". But we as individuals are the only ones who know our spouses. I don't feel like a doormat, and I honestly don't think my wife see's me as that as well. I am no longer doing things from a position of weakness or neediness.

 

I know my posts may not portray the full picture, this is why I respect all comments but in the end I have to live with my choices. So I must do what I feel is right.

 

I have learned so much from the things I've read, and witnessed. I think it is key not to go all out in any one tactic.

 

Some say NC, so the person may go NC all the way, but the spouse may clearly start coming around and just because he was told to go NC he stays NC. WHY? your whole goal is to get your spouse back, if they come around then come around a little yourself.

 

Or someone may say romancer Her, so you start to romance her and she is clearly showing signs that it is not working and is pushing her away. WHY would you continue doing this?

 

We have to gauge the reactions and the situation. I am getting the reactions I want to a degree, and when I don't I know what not to do anymore. There isn't a catch all solution. Sometimes it takes a little bit of this and a little bit of that to get to where you want to be.

 

I am meeting my wife half way. Many will say WHY? DON'T MEET HER ANYWHERE SHE'S THE ONE WHO LEFT YOU. while this is true, to me it is not a matter of who is right or who is wrong. For so long that has been the basis of our arguments. Both of us trying to prove we are righteous and just. I would rather be wrong and happy than right and sad.

 

There are so many variables when you are trying to win a spouse back that sometimes you have to follow your gut. do I hug her? well if you do she may just be weaning off you slowly, or she may be getting closer to you and realzing her mistake, or she might just want closure, or she may be lonely, or, or, or, or. So what do you do? listen to your gut.

 

You know that person better than anyone, I can look in my wifes eyes and I know what she is feeling, I have gotten the diagnosis from everyone else but here is my diagnosis, and again I could be wrong, but so could everyone else.

 

I beleive my wife is obviously confused, when she left she had no intention of coming back, not because she didn't want too but because she didn't think I would ever change. When I showed her my changes and I have remained consistent she began to think whether she was doing the right thing.

 

the pain of making the wrong decision is too much for her and therefore she had to follow through with her decision and leave anyways. I have still remained consistent. I feel my wife is now in a stage where she is trying to decide whether she should start dating me again. The only way for her to do this is to test me.

 

At the same time she needs to make sure I have learned my lesson which is why she doesn't not give herself to me totally. She is afraid that I will go back to the way I was. If she doesn't call me I don't see that as me being a doormat, but a test.

 

The old me would've said why didn't you call, who were you with, blah, blah, blah. The new me shows that he is not affected. Therefore passing the tests. I have to do what I would've done in the beginning.

 

I would not have pressured her for affection, or kisses. I would not have questioned , or harrassed.

 

this is where I think we are at. right now she is an injured bird.

 

a baby bird is in your hand, and it must trust you or it will fly away. you can not stroke it with your whole hand but rather just a finger. once it is comfortable with this, you might then be able to feed it, but it may take time for the bird to eat. Once it eats it may soon grow comfortable enough for you to caress it. But if you push any of these steps too hard it will become frightened and fly away.

 

This is harder said than done though, because all I want to do is to pounce on my wife and shower her with love, and affection, but I refrain.

 

Anyways those are my thoughts, may not be correct but they are mine.

Hope that was not to gay Lizzie Lol....

[Yernasia Quorelios]

Well done .

 

You are 100% correct and a shining example of what unconditional love and being prepared to listen is all about. Furthermore you demonstrate beautifully what happens when a person seeks advice by listening to their ex, listening to their family, listening to their friends, listening to others (such as here on LS) and reading then makes their own decisions based on their experience and what they know of their ex. Once again good luck and I hope things turn out the way you want but I am 100% confident that if they don't you will still end up being happy and be without a shred of bitterness towards your ex.

 

Fantastic effort .

[cocismanuk32]

I don't know how anyone can beat you up over how you are playing it.

 

A simple minded person without any natural intuition or sense would have to rely on reading a book and following the one-size-fits-all 'strategy' to the letter. However, you clearly are sensible and thoughtful and have carefully listened to what people / books have to say, then processed it, weighed up the pros and cons and then come to your own conclusions. Those are the actions of someone who has a decent brain.

 

As you know, I am going through a very similar situation to yours and seeing your resolve, driven out of love (which I can really empathize with because I feel the same way), is a great lesson to me and many others. Without reading your thread I probably would have stayed in a stress pit of pleading and not giving any space.

 

Good luck with your efforts. On thing I would say, though, from my own situation is that it is easy for a woman not to truly believe in her heart that you actually genuinely love her. I have that battle at the moment. When a partner has been hurt over a long period then it takes a long period of living out your love for them for it to sink in that your love is genuine and not an insecurity thing.

 

You are going the right way, in a dignified way, to demonstrating that your love is real. Good luck to you man.

[frd150]

Man I'm scared to post anything else, Im getting beat up over here (and I thought my wife was bad) Caliguy doesn't think I read the book, reckless is tearing me up, lizzie thinks I'm gay, man what's a guy to do.

 

to all who are reading this and may be able to relate, take what you will from my posts. I've read others that have not gone nearly as well as this one. My wife is slowly coming around. If I end up failing and I never get my wife back then you have all witnessed what not to do. If I do get my wife back then you have witnessed what to do.

 

So take this thread for what it's worth. Most of us here have been hurt, that's why were on the board. The pain can cause alot of people to say things like "she is walking all over you" "your a doormat" "grow some balls". But we as individuals are the only ones who know our spouses. I don't feel like a doormat, and I honestly don't think my wife see's me as that as well. I am no longer doing things from a position of weakness or neediness.

 

I know my posts may not portray the full picture, this is why I respect all comments but in the end I have to live with my choices. So I must do what I feel is right.

 

I have learned so much from the things I've read, and witnessed. I think it is key not to go all out in any one tactic.

 

Some say NC, so the person may go NC all the way, but the spouse may clearly start coming around and just because he was told to go NC he stays NC. WHY? your whole goal is to get your spouse back, if they come around then come around a little yourself.

 

Or someone may say romancer Her, so you start to romance her and she is clearly showing signs that it is not working and is pushing her away. WHY would you continue doing this?

 

We have to gauge the reactions and the situation. I am getting the reactions I want to a degree, and when I don't I know what not to do anymore. There isn't a catch all solution. Sometimes it takes a little bit of this and a little bit of that to get to where you want to be.

 

I am meeting my wife half way. Many will say WHY? DON'T MEET HER ANYWHERE SHE'S THE ONE WHO LEFT YOU. while this is true, to me it is not a matter of who is right or who is wrong. For so long that has been the basis of our arguments. Both of us trying to prove we are righteous and just. I would rather be wrong and happy than right and sad.

 

There are so many variables when you are trying to win a spouse back that sometimes you have to follow your gut. do I hug her? well if you do she may just be weaning off you slowly, or she may be getting closer to you and realzing her mistake, or she might just want closure, or she may be lonely, or, or, or, or. So what do you do? listen to your gut.

 

You know that person better than anyone, I can look in my wifes eyes and I know what she is feeling, I have gotten the diagnosis from everyone else but here is my diagnosis, and again I could be wrong, but so could everyone else.

 

I beleive my wife is obviously confused, when she left she had no intention of coming back, not because she didn't want too but because she didn't think I would ever change. When I showed her my changes and I have remained consistent she began to think whether she was doing the right thing.

 

the pain of making the wrong decision is too much for her and therefore she had to follow through with her decision and leave anyways. I have still remained consistent. I feel my wife is now in a stage where she is trying to decide whether she should start dating me again. The only way for her to do this is to test me.

 

At the same time she needs to make sure I have learned my lesson which is why she doesn't not give herself to me totally. She is afraid that I will go back to the way I was. If she doesn't call me I don't see that as me being a doormat, but a test.

 

The old me would've said why didn't you call, who were you with, blah, blah, blah. The new me shows that he is not affected. Therefore passing the tests. I have to do what I would've done in the beginning.

 

I would not have pressured her for affection, or kisses. I would not have questioned , or harrassed.

 

this is where I think we are at. right now she is an injured bird.

 

a baby bird is in your hand, and it must trust you or it will fly away. you can not stroke it with your whole hand but rather just a finger. once it is comfortable with this, you might then be able to feed it, but it may take time for the bird to eat. Once it eats it may soon grow comfortable enough for you to caress it. But if you push any of these steps too hard it will become frightened and fly away.

 

This is harder said than done though, because all I want to do is to pounce on my wife and shower her with love, and affection, but I refrain.

 

Anyways those are my thoughts, may not be correct but they are mine.

Hope that was not to gay Lizzie Lol....

 

Confuzed,

 

I know that a while back you had asked for an opinion from me on your situation. I have to be honest.... I have never been married and i did not feel qualified to give you any guidance espescially with children involved. I KNEW that there were good, more qualified people on here and i see that you have found them, they have advised you,and you have taken from them what you deem fit to your situation. No one knows your wife better than you. There is never a blanket solution;however people are people and human nature is human nature we all share behavioral traits between us. I see it on these boards. I can look at alot of situations on here as mirroring my own as i am sure you would agree.

 

 

Ok,

 

I now ask you, if i may. I have been tormented(lack of a better word) for the last few months over my ex leaving out of the blue. We were together almost three years living together for a better part of that. You have read my thread (i think). Well i did all the bad stuff at the begining like begging and clingyness. Well after a conversation where she told me she "did not see herself in a relationship with me i took it as my que to back off entirely. No contact. It was time to give her the space she was asking for. You see i have bolded the above because of one statement she repeated to me a few times post break up "you can't teach old dogs new tricks". Like your wife she did not think i could change. Well i have and alot of people have noticed it.

 

 

Still i do not call her and bother her. She calls me now sometime alot and for no other reason than just to talk. Maybe about her day maybe about her family and what not. A TEST who knows. I just cannot tell and i do not know what i should do. I do not want to put myself out there again. The rejection is something i cannot take. You can call it a blessing or a curse but you have had the benifit of looking into your wifes eyes through this ordeal where as i have not seen my ex for almost three months. Mostly by my choice. Could she be waiting for me to make the next move? Could this be the reason for the clusters of calls? Or like alot of people on here say , could it just be that she is trying to keep her hook in me? All i have is the sound of her voice to go off of but to hedge my next move on that is real scary. I have a take it or leave it attitude due to my backing off. It has helped. But ill be honest i would rather take it.

 

 

Yeah i should have given up along time ago but she is still on her own and initiating contact. She asked for space and i have obliged. We did not have an ugly relatioship i we just drifted a little and here we sit. Now i live for me and it has made me a stronger person much like you and i do not obcess over her contacting me. If she does i think it is nice if not i have plenty to keep me busy.

 

I have been following your thread and i admire your progression but i would be the last to make predictions but it seems that something is happening with you guys. She seems to still be there just confuzed herself. Again i am no expert in marital affairs.

 

 

I will keep following your progress. Thanks.

[confuzd]

Confuzed,

Ok,

 

Still i do not call her and bother her. She calls me now sometime alot and for no other reason than just to talk. Maybe about her day maybe about her family and what not. A TEST who knows. I just cannot tell and i do not know what i should do. I do not want to put myself out there again. The rejection is something i cannot take.

 

the better answer is the rejection is something you don't want to take, it most definitely is something that you can take though. you obviously want this woman back, or you wouldn't be posting like the rest of us.

I know it is hard but right now your mind is protecting you, and it is in the what if she hurts me again mode. Try asking yourself what if she doesn't.

 

Seriously what if she doesn't? what if she wants you to meet her half way because she is embarrassed, or maybe scared of rejection herself. This is what I would do. If she calls you all the time, try calling her once,just to ask about her day. If you get a positive reaction then you can slowly continue, and maybe progress to other steps very slowly while always watching and gauging her reactions, remember the bird in your hand. What you don't want is to end up being the only one calling, if this happens then you may want to pull back a little, It's a game of give and take I think.

 

You can call it a blessing or a curse but you have had the benifit of looking into your wifes eyes through this ordeal where as i have not seen my ex for almost three months. Mostly by my choice. Could she be waiting for me to make the next move? Could this be the reason for the clusters of calls? Or like alot of people on here say , could it just be that she is trying to keep her hook in me? All i have is the sound of her voice to go off of but to hedge my next move on that is real scary. I have a take it or leave it attitude due to my backing off. It has helped. But ill be honest i would rather take it.

 

Sometimes I think it's a curse, because it gives me more opportunities to F%$# up than you. It is so hard to see her, and not grab her and kiss her.

You are in a scary position, but you are focusing on the negative, I would set small milestones and goals, each milestone leading to the ultimate goal. but focus on the small goals don't get to wrapped up in the ultimate goal yet. What do you feel from her voice? if you rather take it then do what you need to do to take it, you have backed off and that is great, she seems to have noticed and is starting to come around, maybe you should really see what she is coming around for. Don't get your hopes up, but don't give up either.

 

Alot of times we get so good at being strong and withdrawing that we get to the point of like you said being able to take it or leave it. You have been hurting for so long, and now that you have your power back and are more in control of yourself , the feeling is intoxicating. The thought of giving it another try is so sobering, and scary. What was the goal, was it to get to a position of strength to move on with your life, if so then great. Or was it to get to a position of strength so that you can communicate and pursue your love with the proper mindset.

 

Do what you feel in your heart, if it is to get your woman back, then take it slow but definitely take it.

[confuzd]

well, Im on the way home from the gym and my wife calls and asks where I am, I tell her that I am on the way home, and ask why. She says because she was going to wait on me. So I jokingly say why would you want to wait on a scrub like me for, and then tell her I'll be there in about 3 minutes.

 

I get home and she is on the couch looking gorgeous as alway, I give her a quick hug and kiss on the cheek. Something is bothering her, I can see it all over her face. So I ask what the matter is. She says nothing as she always does when I ask what is wrong. I tell her that I can see it all over her face, and I ask again. I only do this because alot of times she needs to really be prodded in order to say what is bothering her, and she had that look of I want to say but I don't want to say.

 

Earlier she texted me that she had a bad dream, so I ask what the dream was about, and she says I'd rather not say. At this point Im about to leave her be but, I know that she really probably just wants to be comforted. After all she is in my house and she did wait on me, but she is not doing much. So instead of leaving her by herself after several failed attempts of getting the problem out of her, I instead do something different. I sit next to her and pull her close and just hold her, she is receptive to this.

 

I kiss her on the forehead and tell her that I am her friend and that I would love to listen to her problem. she just nods. Of course as the typical male I'm thinking the worst. Does she want to tell me it's over, is their another guy on her mind. All this crap goes through my head.

 

So I ask again are you sure you don't want to tell me whats wrong, and she says its no big deal and she can deal with it. So I do what I said I wouldn't do I ask is it another guy, surprisingly she does not get bothered and just says no. So I quickly change the subject and I say "I know I haven't told you lately, only because I have been trying to give you space and not make you feel pressured but I want you to know that I do love you" I ask "you do know that don't you" she says "sometimes I do, but then sometimes I don't" I am not sure what came first but somewhere in there I also told her I hoped I was not stressing her out because I am really trying to help releive her stress, and she says that I haven't been stressing her out. So I hold her a little longer and she then eventually leaves.

 

I do so good with the positive thoughts but when I see her my mind starts to go crazy, I immediately start festering on the thought that she wants to end it with me but is scared to tell me. So again I do what I probably shouldn't do but I just had to, so I call her.

 

By this time she is already home, which means she went straight home, I say "hey sorry to bother you, I just wanted to talk to you real quick" she says "about what" I say "about you" then I say " I know you well enough to know when something is bothering you, I guess that's a good thing, but I had this feeling that maybe you were stressed because you wanted to break it off with me but maybe didn't know how to do it" She says "No that is not it, I am fine really, I will be okay, but thanks for being concerned" So I say "okay, well I hope you have a good night" and she returns the gesture.

 

I really have to get control of my thoughts, I think this is a good example of how your mind can really mess with you. My negative mind thought that she wanted to end it, or is messing with another dude.

 

My rational mind tells me that she is very stressed because she is going to start a new position next week, on top of the obvious situation between me and her. A normal woman's mind is like a computer with about 30 different screens open at any given time, and with the occasional pop up. My wife must have about 100 screens open, and some serious pop ups going on.

 

anyways we'll see what happens, I'm going out of town tomorrow will back on sunday, business trip. I will try to post while I'm gone if any thing interesting happens.

[CaliGuy]

Man I'm scared to post anything else, Im getting beat up over here (and I thought my wife was bad) Caliguy doesn't think I read the book

 

I did not say that. I asked what you learned from the book that you are going to apply to the situation.

 

Still waiting for an answer....

[confuzd]

I did not say that. I asked what you learned from the book that you are going to apply to the situation.

 

Still waiting for an answer....

 

detatching, and letting go.

 

The book used an illustration of two hands that I thought was good, two hands about 3 inches apart, the left hand moves away to get space, and the right hand gets nervous and gets even closer to the left hand than it was initially. This causes the left hand to move even further away, then making the right hand pretty much get so close to the left hand that it is practically on top of it. If the left hand moved away, the right hand should've moved away in the opposite direction.

 

this gives the left hand the space it needs and may cause the left hand to move back a little closer to the right hand.

 

there you go, that's my book report.

[Topper]

Seems like the two of you are headed fora stalemate.

I suggest you get into counseling asap. Tell her you have set an appointment. She is welcome to be there or not. If she shows great, if not then at least you will get some insight and help with your problems.

[Reckless]

Dear confuzd,

 

Along with Cali and a few others i have followed your thread from the beginning. This is very very rare for me. It is not the first time you have voiced 'fears' that shackers would react harshly to what subsequenlty amounted to your positive actions and for the most part I find that LS are quite balanced even in this emotive area.

 

In the absense of abuse I almost never advise people to throw the towell in a relationship and applaud your efforts to save your marriage and would never condemn someone for acting in a loving manner. Although I am, as you may have picked, up a great one for boundaries, if only because they make people (like children) feel secure and loved.

 

Given the dynamics of the marriage, the fact that previously you seemed to have been insensitive and controlling it is doing you a great deal of good to be in touch with your sensitive side and learn some husband skills long long overdue. And I can see you progressing even through these pages. I get a feeling you are not someone used to being critisised and you are for the most part taking it on the chin.

 

Since withdrawing seems to have been your modus operatum with your marriage, possibly stepping back would just enforced the patterns and resulted in the swift end to your marriage.My misgivings are more tied in to the fact that your wife is feeling lost and only has two options: get "found" without you or come back. By giving her all the benefits of marriage without asking for any kind of committment on her part I can't shake the feeling that you are somehow accomodating the former - essentially enabling her to become used to an amicable divorce-like situation before taking the plunge.

 

There has indeed been general outrage as to your submissive reaction to your wife's infidelity but such things are rarely linear and both parties usually (not always by any means) share a part in the conditions that lead to the act if not the act itself. Your wife enabled you to dominate her until she felt suffocated and you ignored her until she called the moving truck. You are doing your part to rectify that and my misgiving is only that she is not doing hers; the one sidedness of this doesn't feel healthy. As you said though, you are playing this by intinct and you obviously are in the best postition to say if you are playing it right.

 

What we know is she is confused, what we know is she still loves you, what we know is she feels terrible about leaving. What we don't know is can she forgive you and recognise the part she played in the demise of your marriage? Can she get to the point to commit, if not to coming back , to REALLY working on things and not just to hearing you say you're sorry?