why do taken men look at porn??

[Rhyla]

Well, obviously, horniness predates porn distribution technology.

 

You do realize he could well be - and in all likelihood is - masturbating about someone else from time to time, right? It's just knowing that he's masturbating to someone else's likeness that bothers you, a truth we'd rather not know....is that it?

 

Again, you fall back to this argument. Assuming that it must be insecurity and jealousy that fuels my dislike of porn. At least in this case, you are wrong.

 

I think I'm getting as tired of hearing this automatic retort, as you are probably of hearing the whole "he doesn't love me it means I'm not good enough" spiel.

 

It may be true in some cases, but not all. Quit using it as a blanket argument. You're going in circles, and your point becomes weak when you move back to assuming what must "really" be going through my head rather than coming up with a well thought out response.

 

I've answered this question before, if you need to know, you can read back a few pages.

[Carbine]

Um...I'd have to disagree. I thought this was the entire point. It's not "debatable". You ask the guy and see what he says. Most guys here have said a 100 times that it's NOT a personal reflection of feelings/happiness. Way to gloss over that though.

 

Little things like "the opinion of the accused"...yeah, those don't matter.

 

If it was not debatable then the thread wouldn't have made it to 27 pages and still be going strong. Seriously, GM...

 

When i said that it's debatable and not worth going into again I was referring ONLY to MY situation and MY feelings. I've gone through these multiple times but I doubt you've read some of my earlier posts. My ex gave me more than enough reason to demonstrate to me that it WAS a reflection on me. So, 100 posts from 100 guys or 1000 guys on here claiming otherwise aren't really going to make a significant difference - AND that's assuming that they're telling the truth!

 

...Except amerikajin. He rocks. Kinda

 

*snerk* Wait...you just implied that those "omg I'm worthless" feelings are based upon...well...nothing, yet in the same breath you claim that those feelings are perfectly fine to have, and others should change their behavior based on them?

 

You're trying to twist my words. The situation I specifically described does not involve him overtly comparing me to the porn models, true. But I'M still comparing ME to them. And it hurts. Yes, we can ignore the fact that he has said things in the past that imply he's comparing them to me. Let's pretend that my insecurities have NOTHING to do with his past behaviour. So what? I'd still feel the same. Porn switches on, self-esteem goes off. Porn goes off, self-esteem switches on...although it's flickering a lot more than before and probably won't last too much longer. Q: How many girls with low self-esteem does it take to change a lightbulb? A: None. They prefer to do it with the lights out.

 

My point? I feel insecure and hurt when I see porn. Therefore I want to avoid watching it. He knows this. But he still expects me to regularly have sex with him while the porn is playing. Which basically boils down to him wanting me to be hurt. Or, in the best-case scenario, not caring if I do get hurt as a result of his actions.

 

And that's just going into one situation. What about the inevitable times I'll accidentally come across his porno mags, dvd's, or clips in his phone? And what about the times that I DON'T catch him out, but feel resentful and upset because I've been forced to pretend that it's ok for him to look at porn and wonder if he's at home jerking it to a pic of a woman who's prettier than me? That still makes me feel ugly. That still makes me feel insecure. That still makes me feel CHEATED UPON. And so that's still more than enough reason for him to change his behaviour.

 

Typically when people say they have the right to feel a certain way, it's based on something. Like, "he pulled off my skirt in the middle of a crowded mall...I have a right to feel humiliated." or "He shot my mom in the face, I have a right to feel angry!" or even "My uncle groped my tit for 2 minutes at the dinner table on Christmas Day! I have a right to feel violated!!!"

So what you're really trying to say is that we only have the right to feel a certain way when our basic human rights regarding security are violated? AND that to be legitmate, the violation of these MUST be punishable by law?Are you actually for real? I'm just about speechless.

 

Fine then, if you want to go along that road, how about if we look at his actions as a form of psychological torture?

 

or even "My uncle groped my tit for 2 minutes at the dinner table on Christmas Day! I have a right to feel violated!!!"

OR EVEN?!? Are you saying that this is more forgiveable than the other two things you mentioned? Jesus Christ...now I AM speechless. If ithat was meant to be slightly humourous, it wasn't. If it was serious, then I for one am praying that you never get into politics. I'll reply to the rest of what you said, but please DO try and excuse the thinly-veiled tone of rage which you may detect...

 

I'm a good listener. But if someone insisted that stroking my sausage to digitized fantasy every now and then, meant that I was explicitly saying "you aren't good enough for me, and I think you're an ugly bitch whom I will use as a warm wet hole for my cock" ...despite my insistance that was not the case? I'd be inclined to write such a person off as loopy. In my world, things have to have reasons.

It's NOT every now and then. It's a daily hobby! No guy is going to curb his porn habits for his SO any more than he's going to curb his breathing patterns at her request!

 

No, in your world, things have to suit you 100%. That's not reason; that's laziness. If things don't suit you then they're automatically 'loopy'. s***, there must be a LOT of nutcases traipsing 'round your world...sounds like a dangerous place to visit...

 

See...I love this. When men tell women that the "I'm not good enough because you wax your carrot" stuff is crazy, you'll yell at us and say our opinion is invalid because we have penises or something.

 

But when a woman says the same thing, you yell at her and say HER opinion is invalid, because...she's not an insecure nutter? What kind of argument is that? You're not supposed to BE a insecure nutter. If she were an insecure nutter, she wouldn't be disagreeing with you in the first place! She'd be making a thread on LoveShack about how ugly she feels in comparison to porn broads who've been touched up with Photoshop.

 

At least when a man says it, it's coming from the horse's mouth. When she says it, it's not from the horse's mouth. And judging by what she's said, it's not from any part of the body even remotely controlled by brain cells.

 

No, i don't remember stating that men's opinions are invalid! Debatable, yes. Certainly open to further probing. But yes, her's IS invalid. Firstly, she's making huge assumptions about a gender that she doesn't even belong to. I dont care what anyone says, no woman thinks so much like a man that she can give advice on behalf of that gender. Secondly, her opinion appears to be based solely upon her experience with one particular boyfriend. Thirdly, I resent advice coming from someone who appears to be very young judging by her post. That's all fine and well, and if her slightly prepubescent figure and teenage naivety have kept her from experiencing deep insecurities then good for her. But I'm not going to take advice from someone who has had no legitimate exerience in dealing with what I'm dealing with. Lastly, I asked her to clarify a few things that she stated, and as of yet she hasn't bothered to do it. This screams one word to me - 'INVALID'!!

 

HAW! I knew I was spot on about this. If porn were completely invisible and hid itself like the Predator...THEN there'd be no problem with it. But there's a problem because there are traces.

 

Or rather, you can go obsessively digging through your SO's internet history and hard drive to find traces. God help men around the world if they ever find a way to search through human brains like Google. You'll have me castrated and committed in the same damned day.

 

Once again, you're twisting my words. I was merely trying to point out that there's a distinct difference between the hurt/fear/upset that 'hard copy' porn causes vs mental imagery. The question you put out more or less forces the reader into picking one over the other. Thats not what I was doing when I answered your question.

 

So let me word my answer a bit differently: I find it almost unbearable to be confronted with hard copies of his fantasy women because I cant escape them. It's 100% undeniable proof that he'd rather f*** someone who looks like *that* than me. When the fantasies are playing out in his head, perhaps the initial sharp pain from being confronted is lessened. But having said that, the ongoing stress of not knowing who he's fantasising about, not to mention the suspicion, jealousy and rage in being told 'its not your right to know whats going on in my head' soon negates any advantages that fantasies may have had over hard copy.

[rainfall]

look if a man is into porn. There is nothing wrong with it. I have a man that is obsessed with the porn channels on TV. But guess what so am I. Set down and watch it with him that way he will know you are comfortable with it and wont hide it. I was the say way. I didn't like it nor wanted anything to do with it. Now I cant stay away from it. You just might like it. Trust me it helps with the sex....gives them ideas. You reap the benefits.

 

 

Why in the world would I want to watch porn with him. I do not get turned on by porn. I get turned on by my man and only my man.

 

Why would I ever want to reap the benefits of him getting turned on by the chick on tv....... I would not even want him to touch me if I knew that was what had turned him on.

[Toni_no12002]

At the end of the day is the porn watching is hurting there gf that much why are they still finding a reason to keep watching it.Whos more important ?

 

So what if you keep using the thing about them being insecure!who isnt!!

That isnt an arguement.Oh shes insecure lets keep watching it...hummm.If you cared that much maybe you would help her become more secure about herself instead of rubing her face in it 24/7.Make her feel special.

 

Yes guys have urges and needs aswell but so do women.Im sure there are other ways instead of resorting to looking a porn.

 

in a way its like the eat to live not live to eat thing.You become greedy and want it all the time.Have some willpower will you!

[amerikajin]

Again, you fall back to this argument. Assuming that it must be insecurity and jealousy that fuels my dislike of porn. At least in this case, you are wrong.

 

I think I'm getting as tired of hearing this automatic retort, as you are probably of hearing the whole "he doesn't love me it means I'm not good enough" spiel.

 

It may be true in some cases, but not all. Quit using it as a blanket argument. You're going in circles, and your point becomes weak when you move back to assuming what must "really" be going through my head rather than coming up with a well thought out response.

 

I've answered this question before, if you need to know, you can read back a few pages.

 

Your position is that porn objectifies women, right?

 

I'm saying, with or without porn, men objectify women. I think most people objectify people they find sexually attractive from time to time; some do it more than others, I suppose.

 

Again, I am not really defending porn; I'm just not attacking it either. I think that it definitely can be offensive to your partner and it's just common sense that if you love your partner, you'll at least respect their sensitivities. On the other hand, I don't like the crusade mentality among some opponents of porn, as though porn is some kind of evil that should automatically spell the end of an otherwise healthy relationship upon discovery.

[Grinning Maniac]

I'll reply to the rest of your post (and others) later...but this was too funny to resist:

 

Firstly, she's making huge assumptions about a gender that she doesn't even belong to. I dont care what anyone says, no woman thinks so much like a man that she can give advice on behalf of that gender.

 

That road goes both ways. You speak as though this entire thread hasn't been a parade of women making (negative) assumptions about how men think and feel. Apparently that's just fine and dandy though. The thing about assumptions is that they're only a problem when those assumptions are wrong. As a man, I thought her post was pretty spot-on. So where's the problem?

 

Also, when MEN give advice on behalf of men, it falls upon deaf ears just as quickly. So, is there some third option I'm missing?

 

 

Thirdly, I resent advice coming from someone who appears to be very young judging by her post. That's all fine and well, and if her slightly prepubescent figure and teenage naivety have kept her from experiencing deep insecurities then good for her. But I'm not going to take advice from someone who has had no legitimate exerience in dealing with what I'm dealing with.

 

As I said before, if a person HAD deep insecurities they wouldn't be giving you that advice. They'd be making a "does he think I'm ugly" thread. So considering that you disbelieve what men have said here, and completely disregard the opinions of women who aren't insecure, are you essentially saying that you're writing off anyone who doesn't already agree with your P.O.V? By process of elimination, who's left to give "legitimate" advice?

 

On a lighter note...you seem to be really offended that the girl's not a nutcase.

[Carbine]

Trust me it helps with the sex....gives them ideas.

 

Ideas pertaining to a) what constitutes gratifying sex and b) the sorts of women who are able to give/endulge in gratifying sex. Which leads to him putting more pressure on me to perform in the role of a sex object. I can't live up to these expectations, and besides, what if I simply don't LIKE his ideas?! Unfortunately one very pertinent example springs to mind here. When we were together my (now) ex got the bright idea from one of his dumb porno flicks that double penetration looked like fun. So he goes out and buys me a couple of giant dildo and proceeds to inform me in middle of sex one night "Now, I want you to practise with these when I'm not here. It looks like a lot of fun and one day we might even get to do it for real!"

 

I was absolutely mortified.

 

To cut a long story short, the dildos nearly ended up being shoved deeply into HIS nether regions - and not in a sexual manner either.

 

Anyway, guys shouldn't need porn to give them ideas on how to have sex! I was under the assumption that this is something they're born with. If they can't use their own brains and sex drive to figure out how to have sex, then they need to consult a doctor, not a porn magazine!

 

You reap the benefits.

 

No you don't.

 

Let's be honest here. HE'S he one reaping the benefits! YOU'RE the one 'reaping' nothing more than what a blow-up doll reaps, which is impersonal sex and a big wad of cum.

 

I just find it very difficult to understand how him getting horny over porn models can benefit ME. I find it insulting, demeaning and extremely unsatisfying to be thrown on my back and humped over and over without any regard for my feelings and my enjoyment. Because they're basically the only benefits you can expect to receive if you allow yourself to be treated like that.

 

Basically, you're gonna reap what he blows...

[Starman]

Oooh, I actually like where this logic is going. OK, so child porn is illegal, fine. But what about fantasy (if fantasy is just fantasy and means nothing.) Is it ok for a 40 year old father to fantasize about screwing his 5 year old daugther as long as he NEVER acts on it any way? By your logic, fantasy is harmless, so you should have no problem with this, right? Some how I doubt it.

 

You only claim fantasy/porn/whatever is harmless when it BENEFITS you to do so. But that doesn't make it so.

 

Fantasy in and of itself IS harmless. In the example you gave there is no CRIME that has taken place. Morally reprehensible as it may be but still not a crime. We do not live in a society like Minority Report where people are jailed on their thoughts, we jail people on their actions.

 

Fantasy is the place where you can say and do things that you can not do in real life, whether those fantasies are sexual in nature, violent in nature, or just plain defy the laws of physics and science. Now when someone ACTS on that fantasy then you change the landscape and that is a different act and set of conditions. But I'm speaking soley of the realm of fantasy inside a person's mind, not overt actions that involve other people in any way, shape or form.

 

Immoral thoughts come in many shapes and sizes, depending on the person having the thoughts and those like you who demonize any such thoughts. Some are much more sick and peverse then most would ever conceive of and if acted out would be a crime against the people involved and society in general.

 

But this initial discussion started out about a guy having a simply fantasy in his head of a girl, hardly a capital offense cause if it was every man on the planet would be jailed for it, as would a large majority of women too.

 

This is my last word on the subject as the discussion has devolved past a point of rational discussion and more into a heated emotional argument, and there is no point arguing with people who are emotional about an issue, you might as well try and change the rising of the sun.

 

Good luck to you all who wish to carry on this topic of debate.

[Jersey Shortie]

Having videotaped sex does not make one less human.

 

Of course not but funny how porn does turn women into less of a human and more into a toy there souly for a man's pleasure. Because it's all about interchanging woman on a continuning cycle for the man's pleasure. Porn isn't there to treat women like humans. It's there to treat them like a toy for a man's amusement. And it's never enough because men always need something new and different to look at. It makes the women who know their boyfriend enjoy this feel less like a woman and less like a human in his eyes that deserves respect.

 

 

 

Thanks to the Bible and other religious doctrines, our society hypocritically sends us mixed messages, that on the one hand, showing skin is bad, because the human body is disgusting and should be covered up;

 

Please, we passed prudism a long time ago. And not agreeing with porn is far from saying that the human body is disgusting and bad.

 

 

 

You can objectify anything - most people who view porn don't objectify women.

 

You realize the contradiction here don't you?

 

 

They/We do so momentarily, yes, but the truth is the majority of people - men and women - objectify in a sexual way at one point or another.

 

Well then by all means! That must mean it's okay to treat women less then human.

 

 

Deal with it, sistah!

 

 

There are women here and in the world that try hard to deal with it everyday. But there is only so much they can take. And after awhile it wears you down how much porn is important to men and how much you are suppose to be willing to "deal with" for the sake of his penis. I guess it is asking for men to deal with it themselves and show a little control and respect. Because at the end of the day, what is most important is the porn.

 

 

for the same reason women keep buying new shoes even though they already have 75 pairs..

 

Yeah, because shoes and multiple sexual partners or the desire to have multiple sexual partners is the same thing. *rolls eyes*

 

 

My point? I feel insecure and hurt when I see porn. Therefore I want to avoid watching it. He knows this. But he still expects me to regularly have sex with him while the porn is playing. Which basically boils down to him wanting me to be hurt. Or, in the best-case scenario, not caring if I do get hurt as a result of his actions.

 

I am so sorry. That is awful that he treats you like that.

 

 

 

Why don't men ever get it! Of course some of the issues with porn has to do with insecurity! (Now that is NOT the only reason, but it is part of it as anything else is) How could you expect it not too?????

 

We understand how important sex and physical looks are to men. And no woman can compete with the thousand of images he is going to be able to view when it comes to porn, whether the chick is hot or not in the porn image. Of course this creates doubt. Doubt about where we fit into his life. What he really thinks of women. What he really thinks of us. Doubt that we aren't good enough because he is sitting there with himself in his hand excited over a fantasy we can't hope to live up to even though we want to be able to because we want our men to like US. Not some over inflated bimbo.

 

Everyday woman live everyday being compared to images they won't ever meet up with. And they do their best to fight the preasure and find self confidence for who they are. But when your own man is buying into the images that you are trying hard to tell yourself you don't have to like, and he is telling you that it is his "fantasy" (basically what he wishes women were like and looked like), it is very discourging that we will ever be good enough or be able to have a good relationship with a man who at least tries to do fidelity the best he can. Not getting by being monogomous only because he can still jack off to any woman that pleases him. That speaks of nothing about control and respect for your SO.

 

Of course this is a hard issue for women. Of course it is going to raise doubt! If women had anything equal to what men have in porn, men would be wondering themselves because action speaks louder then words. And men's actions say they care more about the porn then they do the woman in their life.

 

And I am afraid it is an issue that most men will never want to admitt the truth to because it is proved time and time again that it is the porn that is important to men. Otherwise men would just leave it be and enjoy their partners more, not the porn.

[amerikajin]

Of course not but funny how porn does turn women into less of a human and more into a toy there souly for a man's pleasure. Because it's all about interchanging woman on a continuning cycle for the man's pleasure. Porn isn't there to treat women like humans. It's there to treat them like a toy for a man's amusement.

 

Damn right porn is there for a man's pleasure and amusement.

 

If you condemn porn you're condemning casual sex, which is something the overwhelming majority of people from both genders have done at least once in their lives and something the majority of people would probably do again, given the right circumstances. Sex can, and occasionally, does have an element of pleasure associated with it - big surprise there! Sometimes people have sex just because it feels damn good and in a lot of situations, they want no strings attached. I know plenty of women and men who feel this way. So as far as the 'objectification' angle to this argument, I think that is sufficiently debunked. People objectify others when it comes to sex - that goes for men AND women. Deal with it. I am not in the least bit interested in hearing this as a rationale against porn. I think feminism has created this hypocrisy whereby women want sexual liberation on the one hand, but when it comes to something like porn, which strikes at the heart of a woman's lack of security with her self image, objectification suddenly becomes a bad thing. Nah, not buyin' it.

 

I am far more sympathetic to the other arguments made against porn. I understand that it can make a woman feel insecure, and I can understand why that is the case. And that is why I don't just blythely dismiss porn as harmless in the context of a relationship. I think any man who shoves his porn habit - assuming it is a habit, which for some it is not necessarily - if he continues to shove that down her throat (no pun intended) then, yes, I find that blatantly disrespectful, which would probably indicate a deeper, underlying problem about the man's character: his selfishness, his patent disrespect for anybody but himself...that would be exposed and be far more reason to ditch him, as opposed to a mere curiosity or fascination with another woman's body, which I can guaranteee you even the most faithful of all men (and I dare say women) have on occasion.

[unsafe]

Personally I would rather my guy look at porn then be cheating on me.

 

All men look at porn no matter how hot skinny, sexy, crazy and wild you are.

 

Women, We are NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!!

 

its that simple. It doesn't mean they don't love us, or don't desire us. Its just MEN. Its how they are programmed. They say men aren't managmous creatures. But we some how tame them to be. So I would rather my man look at porn that is nothing emotional about it, then having sex with a woman where he has the chance of getting emotionally involved.

 

Men just need it. Let them have it. You can enjoy porn too. Its stimulating, its hot.

 

It is what it is.

 

And men need variety so if this how they get it, then so be it! At least he isn't in danger of getting an STD for his hand.

 

My rule is, as long as you don't hold out on sex with me, I DON"T CARE! Look all you want.

 

You can't say that once in a while you picture a stimulating scene in your head while you guy is doing you or going down on you, that he might not be involved in. It's our minds.

 

Just except it now that he loves you or he wouldnt' be with you.

 

if you have issues with your body then do something about it FOR YOU! Not him!

[ash519]

So, I havent read all that much of this thread but I wanted to be included in and tell you my views.

 

Knowing my bf watches or downloads porn makes me jealous. These women have big breasts and do all this crazy stuff etc and I sometimes I feel I'm less than them. BUT...i let it go. He is going to watch porn and MOST men do. It's not a huge deal, nothing that shouldnt be able to be handled unless it is an addiction.

 

ANd hey, I like porn myself. I can get myself off in like 2 minutes if i am watching it . It's a great tool and it makes me understand why guys like it so much.

 

Porn is one of those things I think (again, unless it is an addiction) that needs to be understood. And I can see the view of women being viewed as toys, but that is what they want. These women LOVE doing what they do, and the men do too. Listen to Howard Stern, these girls LOVE there life.

[almostbrokenup]

OK, I know the "why does he look at porn" discussion has been going on for sometime, and yes, it is probably an old story for many, but please indulge me....I am new to this experience, and not taking it well.

 

I live with my BF, he is a good guy-for the most part. But I can't get over his 'porn collection' on the computer. There have been a couple of times that I have walked in on him and he has been super embarrassed, denied the whole thing. But it seems to be getting worse OR I am just tuned into the issue AND CAN'T LET IT GO!

 

And now I am even more tuned into the # of times we have sex...I, for the most part have to initate, which I am not happy about anyway, and about half of the time I am turned away....do to his "not feeling horny or sexy", YET after reviewing his history on the computer, he wasn't while I was sleeping or this morning when I was getting ready for work....WTF, I am getting pissed!

 

How can this not be a rejection? ESPECIALLY since, im my opinoin, the women aren't even hot!! The women are are odd!! I am can't even embrace it....they are normal, some overweight....I mean, at least I would like to think I could be more accepting if the women were something I am not! I am based in reality here!

 

Any ideas on the brain of a man that looks at uglier women than the one he lives? I am obsessing about this too much, how much weight does a matter like this have in a relationship, especially when he doesn't know what I know?

 

....my bags are almost packed!

[Jersey Shortie]

Damn right porn is there for a man's pleasure and amusement.

 

Thank you for illustrating how men only care of their needs and pleasure and not how it might effect the woman in their life. It proves to me that a man's number one concern is himself, screw who he hurts in the process.

 

 

 

If you condemn porn you're condemning casual sex

 

 

This makes no sense. I condemn casual sex in a relationship sure!

You aren't suppose to be having casual sex while you are in a relationship.

 

 

Sometimes people have sex just because it feels damn good and in a lot of situations, they want no strings attached.

 

Then don't have a relationship. This seems very logical and simple if you ask me.

 

People objectify others when it comes to sex - that goes for men AND women. Deal with it. I am not in the least bit interested in hearing this as a rationale against porn.

 

You are not interested in hearing it because you know it's a valid argument. Men objectify women 10 times more then the other way around. Just because it happens doesn't make it right.

 

 

I think feminism has created this hypocrisy whereby women want sexual liberation on the one hand, but when it comes to something like porn, which strikes at the heart of a woman's lack of security with her self image, objectification suddenly becomes a bad thing.

 

No the real hypocrisy is men. Who want a relationship but also want to still think about all the woman they want to bang. You want your cake and to eat it too and at the expense of a woman's self worth.

 

 

 

I am far more sympathetic to the other arguments made against porn I understand that it can make a woman feel insecure, and I can understand why that is the case.

 

Sympathetic, but you like most men at the end of the day don't care. Because you are more concerned with yourself then how much porn can make a real woman feel like less of a woman to her man.

 

 

 

"... if he continues to shove that down her throat (no pun intended) then, yes, I find that blatantly disrespectful, which would probably indicate a deeper, underlying problem about the man's character: his selfishness, his patent disrespect for anybody but himself...that would be exposed and be far more reason to ditch him, as opposed to a mere curiosity or fascination with another woman's body, which I can guaranteee you even the most faithful of all men (and I dare say women) have on occasion.

 

It is already shoved down our throats all the time. Look at the way you men defend it. I don't see you defending the real woman in your life. Because if you gave aflying crap about women, you would be defending them. Not porn.

 

 

Personally I would rather my guy look at porn then be cheating on me.

 

If our only opinions are he either looks at porn or he cheats on me, that isn't saying a heck of alot about the male gender.

[milvushina]

Jeez this thread is a monster.

Morality

I am pro-porn for feminist reasons. I believe that women have the right to choose to cash in on the diamond mine between their legs. I think it is a choice that will probably be regretted at some point, because I do share the opinion that it's not very healthy or self-respecting to screw for money. But the point is that women get to make the decision to go into that line of work. Which pretty much by definition means it's not exploitative. It would be degrading to tell a woman that she can't choose to do that.

 

(You might be able to argue that there is exploitation going on, since porn actors are getting rich by exploiting people's sexual urges. But the choice to watch or not is a decision too.)

 

Fidelity

The reason why there is no cut and dry argument here is because some people get just as jealous over porn as they do over real, live people. And sometimes it can hurt a relationship as much as cheating.

 

I am SO glad my ex and I got divorced. One of our biggest problems was porn. He would go for days rejecting my advances only to please himself with his multi-gig porn collection. And if I went to the store or dozed off on the couch that was often what he would be doing when I got back/ woke up. It was kinda creepy. And frustrating. And made me very angry.

 

But it wasn't really the porn, it was his disregard for my feelings in our day to day life. I'm sure my (now) husband looks at it. He even asked me after we moved in together if it bothered me (kinda weird, but sweet). And overall I'm not some incredibly secure person, but with my husband I am secure because he never makes me feel like a second choice sexually. And that makes the porn a non-issue. It doesn't even occur to me to spy on what he looks at, because it's not ever in my face.

 

 

To sum up, I like porn okay. Sometimes I like to watch it and sometimes it sounds gross and unappealing. I think it is kaka to say that it is degrading to women. Well, I guess this doesn't apply across the board but in America it's legal and not forcefully made.

And often when porn is a big issue, it is indicative of a wider insensitivity problem. I don't think that men (or women) should have to meet a list of "don't's" to please their partner ... but if your partner is unhappy with something like porn, you should look at your behavior holisitically and probably you will find that you ARE contributing to it. Like the poor girl whose bf knows she doesn't like it but tries to play it in the background while he makes love to her. That's just messed up. I'll quit now because I REALLY went on here.

[amerikajin]

Jeez this thread is a monster.

Morality

I am pro-porn for feminist reasons. I believe that women have the right to choose to cash in on the diamond mine between their legs. I think it is a choice that will probably be regretted at some point, because I do share the opinion that it's not very healthy or self-respecting to screw for money. But the point is that women get to make the decision to go into that line of work. Which pretty much by definition means it's not exploitative. It would be degrading to tell a woman that she can't choose to do that.

 

(You might be able to argue that there is exploitation going on, since porn actors are getting rich by exploiting people's sexual urges. But the choice to watch or not is a decision too.)

 

Fidelity

The reason why there is no cut and dry argument here is because some people get just as jealous over porn as they do over real, live people. And sometimes it can hurt a relationship as much as cheating.

 

I am SO glad my ex and I got divorced. One of our biggest problems was porn. He would go for days rejecting my advances only to please himself with his multi-gig porn collection. And if I went to the store or dozed off on the couch that was often what he would be doing when I got back/ woke up. It was kinda creepy. And frustrating. And made me very angry.

 

But it wasn't really the porn, it was his disregard for my feelings in our day to day life. I'm sure my (now) husband looks at it. He even asked me after we moved in together if it bothered me (kinda weird, but sweet). And overall I'm not some incredibly secure person, but with my husband I am secure because he never makes me feel like a second choice sexually. And that makes the porn a non-issue. It doesn't even occur to me to spy on what he looks at, because it's not ever in my face.

 

 

To sum up, I like porn okay. Sometimes I like to watch it and sometimes it sounds gross and unappealing. I think it is kaka to say that it is degrading to women. Well, I guess this doesn't apply across the board but in America it's legal and not forcefully made.

And often when porn is a big issue, it is indicative of a wider insensitivity problem. I don't think that men (or women) should have to meet a list of "don't's" to please their partner ... but if your partner is unhappy with something like porn, you should look at your behavior holisitically and probably you will find that you ARE contributing to it. Like the poor girl whose bf knows she doesn't like it but tries to play it in the background while he makes love to her. That's just messed up. I'll quit now because I REALLY went on here.

 

This is the holy grail of all porn posts, the golden porn post. My God, we have a winner!!!!!! Yippiee!

 

This is exactly what I've been saying all along. Porn is not cut and dry - which should not be interpreted to mean that porn is "okay" or that it doesn't cause harm. I am not for porn, but I get tired of the moral crusades against it. Porn is not evil, it's like a lot of other controversies that come up in a relationship: there has to be a meeting of the minds. Nothing more, nothing less.

[amerikajin]

Thank you for illustrating how men only care of their needs and pleasure and not how it might effect the woman in their life. It proves to me that a man's number one concern is himself, screw who he hurts in the process.

 

Thank you for pointing out how irrational some women can be in discussing an issue where two reasonably-minded people might have a difference of opinion over what porn represents.

 

This makes no sense. I condemn casual sex in a relationship sure! You aren't suppose to be having casual sex while you are in a relationship.

 

You're obfuscating.

 

I'm responding to the supposition that porn 'degrades' or 'objectifies' women, which is something you've previously stated as your opinion. I'm telling you that, yes, porn does objectify women; it also objectifies men. Likewise, anyone who has ever had casual sex, even if they are single, has "objectified" the person with whom they are having sex. Any sex outside of being in love is objectification. The 'objectification' argument is silly.

 

 

You are not interested in hearing it because you know it's a valid argument. Men objectify women 10 times more then the other way around. Just because it happens doesn't make it right.

 

 

 

 

No the real hypocrisy is men. Who want a relationship but also want to still think about all the woman they want to bang. You want your cake and to eat it too and at the expense of a woman's self worth.

 

 

 

 

 

Sympathetic, but you like most men at the end of the day don't care. Because you are more concerned with yourself then how much porn can make a real woman feel like less of a woman to her man.

 

 

 

It is already shoved down our throats all the time. Look at the way you men defend it. I don't see you defending the real woman in your life. Because if you gave aflying crap about women, you would be defending them. Not porn.

 

 

 

 

If our only opinions are he either looks at porn or he cheats on me, that isn't saying a heck of alot about the male gender.

 

God, this turned into a man-hating rant in a hurry.

[rainfall]

You can't say that once in a while you picture a stimulating scene in your head while you guy is doing you or going down on you, that he might not be involved in. It's our minds.

 

Just except it now that he loves you or he wouldnt' be with you.

 

if you have issues with your body then do something about it FOR YOU! Not him!

 

 

Yes I can say I do not think about anyone besides my man in a sexual way. He is the only one I want to be with in a sexual way and I do not need to think about anyone esle to get turned on.

 

I did do something about my body when I was unhappy with it. If I lose any more weight I would be way underweight and that isn't sexy either.

So unless someone wants to loan me 5000 dollars for breast implants I have don all I can do.

[CardPlay3r]

Well personally I don't really like most porn because it looks so fake, but I don't think there's anything "wrong with it" morally.

 

For relationships I guess it should be ok to watch it once in a while, and girls watch porn too but it is bad when it becomes an addiction and you neglect your gf/wife because of it

[Carbine]

That road goes both ways. You speak as though this entire thread hasn't been a parade of women making (negative) assumptions about how men think and feel. Apparently that's just fine and dandy though. The thing about assumptions is that they're only a problem when those assumptions are wrong. As a man, I thought her post was pretty spot-on. So where's the problem?

I'd hardly call it a 'parade of women'. Realistically, there's only a handful of us on here who appear so strongly opposed the porn issue that we'll go and make what you term 'negative assumptions' about men. And I beg to differ. They're neither positive or negative assumptions, and most of them aren't even 'assumptions' at all. If you think this is simply a parade of male-bashing women who enjoy marching to the tune of 'negative assumptions' then you are totally, totally on the wrong track. The way I see it the parade of women has raised some very legitimate points (whether based on 'assumption' or not) and have been willing to discuss these. But the majority of these points have been met with cries of "Oh, you're just insecure! Get over it or Get lost!" by what is (shamefully) a mixed crowd.

 

Also, when MEN give advice on behalf of men, it falls upon deaf ears just as quickly

once again, I beg to differ. But if that IS the case then all you're doing is revving up the parade of women by throwing your rubbish and ciggy butts at them.

 

Oh look - Now you've gone and set my parade costume on fire.

 

As I said before, if a person HAD deep insecurities they wouldn't be giving you that advice. They'd be making a "does he think I'm ugly" thread. So considering that you disbelieve what men have said here, and completely disregard the opinions of women who aren't insecure, are you essentially saying that you're writing off anyone who doesn't already agree with your P.O.V? By process of elimination, who's left to give "legitimate" advice?

Who says that I simply 'write off' advice if I don't agree with their POV? Honestly, I'm NOT like that. I just have a lot of difficulty trying to decipher the "legitimate" advice from the "not-so-legitimate" when that advice is coming from someone who not only blatantly disagrees with my POV, but appears to not even have a basic grasp on where I'm coming from at all. That's the problem with the advice Hummingbird343 (and similar others) gave, because it's clearly not backed up with reason, or even the acknowledgement that there IS a problem to begin with

 

On a lighter note...you seem to be really offended that the girl's not a nutcase.

Teehee! On a lighter note, the gentleman doth protest too much, methinks! Oooh...a certain grinning maniac may just have the hots for someone...

[Toni_no12002]

Everyone has different opinions on the porn issue.Whats the point in arguing about it.Neither side are suddenly going to jump up and say oh yea they was right i was wrong.Niether of you are wrong you just think of it differently.

 

You can all carry on arguing till your blue in the face about the issue but your not going to get through to each other so id give up!Some like porn and some dont like it.Your not going to change each others mind.Also i dont think calling each other is going to help!They dont like porn so there insecure...no not always .Because someone likes it doesnt make them an uncaring twat either.

 

Give up already this is going no where!

[CATENZA]

Ur man watching or downloading porn is the least of the problems out there. At least he's home and alone. My husband watches porn when he can, it bothers me for a second and then i get over it. All men are the same!! Horny Bastards! It doesn't matter if they are having sex everyday of every minute, when the opportunity comes they will watch porn.

 

Make it hot.. watch it with him.. Have sex!

[Carbine]

for the same reason women keep buying new shoes even though they already have 75 pairs...

 

Yeah, because shoes and multiple sexual partners or the desire to have multiple sexual partners is the same thing. *rolls eyes*

Actually, I think he means 74 pairs. The 75th pair are the diamond-encrusted black stilettos he insists we wear in bed because it makes us looks more like one of his beloved porn stars. Hence they don't apply.

 

The other 74 pairs get worn out very quickly from us having to give the inconsiderate creeps repeated kickings up the backside which they sorely deserve.

 

I am so sorry. That is awful that he treats you like that.

 

Why don't men ever get it! Of course some of the issues with porn has to do with insecurity! (Now that is NOT the only reason, but it is part of it as anything else is) How could you expect it not too?????

 

I don't know why they don't get it. It's a pretty basic concept to be able to grasp.

 

They seem to be able to grasp why they love their girlfriends and name the traits that make him come home to her. But they don't seem to get that it's NOT ok to expect their girlfriends to simply 'switch off' the characteristics that they don't like. Now THAT'S objectifying someone! It's ok for him to watch some porno where the actress is bent over doggystyle and screaming at the guy doing her from behind "Oh f*** me, you filthy motherf****** b@stard!" because he finds the dirty talk a turn-on.

 

However, when I use exact same words on him for refusing to acknowledge my feelings in regards to porn, he tells me to shut up and quit being insecure - because it's "unnatractive". :mad:

 

We understand how important sex and physical looks are to men

 

Yes, but sadly enough it's seems that MEN don't seem to understand how important sex and physical looks are to MEN. And to women.

 

Everyday woman live everyday being compared to images they won't ever meet up with. And they do their best to fight the preasure and find self confidence for who they are. But when your own man is buying into the images that you are trying hard to tell yourself you don't have to like, and he is telling you that it is his "fantasy" (basically what he wishes women were like and looked like), it is very discourging that we will ever be good enough or be able to have a good relationship with a man who at least tries to do fidelity the best he can. Not getting by being monogomous only because he can still jack off to any woman that pleases him. That speaks of nothing about control and respect for your SO.

 

Well said.

 

The reason it's 'very discouraging' is because I, for one, refuse to be led to believe that his view of porn women as objects, and his resulting behaviour towrds them won't extend to me. FFS, I'm not that stupid. Just how significantly CAN his brain chemistry and hormonal/emotional/physical repsonse differ between viewing them and viewing me? NOT MUCH is the logical answer. He doesn't have an exclusive and overriding set of physical/mental/emotional reactions that are reserved entirely for my body - just because I'm ME. That's utterly ridiculous.

 

Thus, it's fair to say that the process he uses to determine if certain porn star is worthy or not of being his object WILL also be applied to me. He just doesn't realise it, and even if he doesnt want the hassle of admitting it to his SO.

 

Knowing my bf watches or downloads porn makes me jealous. These women have big breasts and do all this crazy stuff etc and I sometimes I feel I'm less than them. BUT...i let it go [...]ANd hey, I like porn myself. I can get myself off in like 2 minutes if i am watching it . It's a great tool and it makes me understand why guys like it so much.

 

So what you're saying is that you like getting off to something dehumanising and which not only makes you feel jealous but also "less" beautiful??! That's SICK. You need help...

 

And I can see the view of women being viewed as toys, but that is what they want. These women LOVE doing what they do, and the men do too. Listen to Howard Stern, these girls LOVE there life.

 

And so does anyone who looks like that, makes tonnes of money doing next to nothing, and has men throwing themselves at their feet. These girls know that they could go out and get a normal job - not all of them are 'dumb' blondes - but why should they when it's easier to use their bodies and live more comfortably than the rest of us who weren't born so lucky? It's called the path of least resistance.

 

It's all fine and well for people to delude themselves with some sob-story of how these girls are simply poor little victims with abusive childhoods, unhappy pasts and are thrashing blindly in a cesspool of moral decay - (if that were the case and I were better looking, Jenna whatever her name is would look like an amateur next to me!) - but most of the time that's just not the case. The reason these girls LOVE life is because they know that they're born lucky and enjoy the fact that they're better than not so lucky women. They have huge egos, high standards and loads of power.

 

People who make a song and dance over how they care about the 'moral decay' of these girls are totally sneer-worthy in my eyes. The only reason they care so much is that these girls are contributing to the acceptance of porn within society, and it will eventually affect them, as it will affect any 'Miss Average'. It's not a more legitimate or morally superior argument than saying "I hate porn because I'm jealous". If someone wants to go and prove how much they care about others who are suffering, then they can go and sponsor some poor little black kid in Uganda who's forced to drink from the toilet. Now that's what a 'poor little victim is'. It's just easier to take the moral highground when it doesn't require a credit card payment of $29.99 per month to World Vision.

 

You might be able to argue that there is exploitation going on, since porn actors are getting rich by exploiting people's sexual urges. But the choice to watch or not is a decision too.

 

I totally agree. However, I DO think that porn indirectly exploits normal, average women because it utilises above-average actresses to perform the sorts of sex that men can only dream of. It basically says to him "So, you reckon that sex with your SO is that great do you? What about her fat thights and cellulite? Look how much better sex is with one of OUR girls! HER buttcheeks dont wobble the way your SO's do during sex..."

 

FidelityThe reason why there is no cut and dry argument here is because some people get just as jealous over porn as they do over real, live people. And sometimes it can hurt a relationship as much as cheating.

 

See what I don't understand is the argument "porn isnt about real, live people". While milvushina realises that people get jealous of porn, a lot of others seem to be under the impression that "if porn isn't about real, live people, then real live women shouldn't get jealous of it". Well, fine, but if they're going to say that, then it's only fair to say that porn "shouldn't" affect "real, live" emotions in general. Hence men will argue that its ok for these NON real-life women to stir in him the feelings of lust which lead to a satisfying wank. But it's not ok for his SO to feel jealous. That's hypocritical.

 

Porn is made by, made for, and uses "real live" people, therefore it's about real live people. Period. Real live people will affect real live people, whether in the flesh or on tv or in a magazine.Period. So if I feel the same way about him cheating with some real life girl as I do over catching him jerking it to porn then I have every right. However, if I catch him making love to the tailpipe of his beloved sportscar, or jerking it over pictures of animals mating, then its probably fair to say that I haven't got a very good reason to be jealous.

[Jeffrey]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with fantasy. Most 'sexperts' will agree that it's not only quiote normal and harmless, but good for people.

 

There's a reason it's called FANTASY you know, it's because for the vast majority of people, it's things that they'd never do.

 

So, it would appear you're an exception and not the norm. I'm plenty happy and I fantasize often.

 

No it doesn't. Why do men defend the pron in their life so much. They even defend it over their SO feelings. I do not want to control my man except when it comes to something that has to do with me. He is free to do alot of things if he chooses. They only thing I do not want him doing is having fantasies about screwing other women. Since I have been with this man I have never had to have a fantasy.

 

Fantasy for me means I am unhappy with what I have and wish I could have this because it is better then what I have now. It is selfish for my man to expect me to accept that I will never be enough for him and that he is free to think about screwing abyone he sees or meets.

 

It does mean something is wrong in the relationship if you gotta think about screwing other people........

[Toni_no12002]

I totally agree. However, I DO think that porn indirectly exploits normal, average women because it utilises above-average actresses to perform the sorts of sex that men can only dream of. It basically says to him "So, you reckon that sex with your SO is that great do you? What about her fat thights and cellulite? Look how much better sex is with one of OUR girls! HER buttcheeks dont wobble the way your SO's do during sex..."

 

 

Sex aint everything they may be attractive but so what do they have anything to talk about or are the clever.Men might think yes there hot but would they really want to go out with someone like that?I doubt it.There looks will fade with age!