Perspective

[basil67]

 

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

It's not look's entirely it's actually more slanted toward personality and confidence and yes being slim is nice as is a pretty face.

If we're still on the topic of friends, a TRUE friend will not care what we look like

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

There is no tangible good reason to change what I find attractive. 

 Other than the fact that you're miserable and lonely?   But hey, if you'd rather be miserable and lonely have at it.  But do stop complaining about the consequences of your choices

[ZA Dater]

18 minutes ago, basil67 said:

 

If we're still on the topic of friends, a TRUE friend will not care what we look like

 Other than the fact that you're miserable and lonely?   But hey, if you'd rather be miserable and lonely have at it.  But do stop complaining about the consequences of your choices

Unless of course you want to date your friend's. Its just unfortunate for me I'm unlikely to find mutual attraction, without it I don't see much point in a relationship. It's not a choice it's a reality. I am sure there are millions like me in the same situation.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Unless of course you want to date your friend's.

If you want to date them, then they aren't friends....they are potential love interests.  And I think you'll find that most women aren't into friendships which involve being someone's fantasy girlfriend.  

Quote

  Its just unfortunate for me I'm unlikely to find mutual attraction, without it I don't see much point in a relationship. 

Why the need to keep repeating yourself?  Serious question.  You know we've heard this over and over, right?

Quote

It's not a choice it's a reality. I am sure there are millions like me in the same situation.

Your reality is that plenty of women have expressed interest but you've reject pretty much all of them.   But hey, if you aren't interested that's fine.  It's your life, so accept the consequences of your decisions and quit complaining

And yes, in a world of ~8 billion people, I'm sure there are millions like you.  But there are billions who can have successful relationships....some long term, some short term...but they aren't loveless for their whole lives.  

Edited April 1, 2024 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

9 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If you want to date them, then they aren't friends....they are potential love interests.  And I think you'll find that most women aren't into friendships which involve being someone's fantasy girlfriend.  

Why the need to keep repeating yourself?  Serious question.  You know we've heard this over and over, right?

Your reality is that plenty of women have expressed interest but you've reject pretty much all of them.   But hey, if you aren't interested that's fine.  It's your life, so accept the consequences of your decisions and quit complaining

And yes, in a world of ~8 billion people, I'm sure there are millions like you.  But there are billions who can have successful relationships....some long term, some short term...but they aren't loveless for their whole lives.  

Sorry interest is irrelevant if it's not mutual. Mere interest is a very low requirement to be honest. 

Again if people are happy let them be. For me the only measure is mutual attraction, if I can't accomplish that then there is zero dating success. That is the very foundation onto which everything in my opinion is built.

 

[basil67]

^ nothing you haven't said countess times.    Why do you keep writing the same things?  

Edited April 1, 2024 by basil67

[BaileyB]

If I went to work everyday and told myself, I don’t like my job. It’s not a good match for my skills, there are better people working here. I just don’t have the experience to do anything different, I guess there is nothing I can do… I would be absolutely miserable every single day. Not only would I be very unhappy, I’d be very unsuccessful at work. 

It’s really sad how stuck you are ZA. But what’s more pathetic is your lack of motivation to change anything. 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, BaileyB said:

If I went to work everyday and told myself, I don’t like my job. It’s not a good match for my skills, there are better people working here. I just don’t have the experience to do anything different, I guess there is nothing I can do… I would be absolutely miserable every single day. Not only would I be very unhappy, I’d be very unsuccessful at work. 

It’s really sad how stuck you are ZA. But what’s more pathetic is your lack of motivation to change anything. 

Motivation to change what exactly, it's not like I wake up each day feeling like a bad person, I am just an unattractive one in terms of the people I do find attractive. Sure, I obviously within reason try to be attractive, manners, mannerisms etc and general look but heck 10 odd years on OLD has shown, doesn't matter which look or which contrived approach I use the results are similar. My question would be what changes actually bring tangible benefits?

More options would be nice but again why would I deserve them when there is always going to be the inexperience problem which people will not overlook or the shy problem or the lack of confidence problem, some of those I can hide and do.

It's very hard to explain what going through life with no mutual attraction is like, most people I know experienced this fairly early in life relative, for me it's the one thing which eats me and yes I have discussed this with a few professionals. 

The relationship I had, most of it I spent second guessing myself, wondering why I never felt x or y.

 

 

[Gaeta]

21 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Motivation to change what exactly

We've been over that with you for 22 pages now. 

[ZA Dater]

44 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

We've been over that with you for 22 pages now. 

Yeah drop standards, go to therapy, give unattractive people a chance, do work, what you are attracted to is unrealistic.

I get it. 

[Wiseman2]

22 pages of "I want  right wing supermodels to fall from the sky into my lap and not have to make any effort or changes". 

[ZA Dater]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

22 pages of "I want  right wing supermodels to fall from the sky into my lap and not have to make any effort or changes". 

Please find me where I brought politics into this discussion? And no I don't want a supermodel either, amazing how slim suddenly equates to supermodel? 

Thanks everyone for the advice though. It's been most enlightening. It's good to know some can relate to my perspective.

[basil67]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Yeah drop standards, go to therapy, give unattractive people a chance, do work, what you are attracted to is unrealistic.

I get it. 

Exactly.  So take our advice or not.  But if you're not going to take it, stop complaining about having no success

Edited April 1, 2024 by basil67

[FredEire]

14 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yep that's a hookup!   

It's a shame that you can't better manage your expectations so that you don't say single for life, but I guess it is what it is

If some girl wanted a hookup with you based on your profile I'd say that's a pretty clear sign the "sexual marketplace" hasn't deemed you completely unworthy as you've so often said.

The fact that you were well into your late 30s, had never slept with anyone had never considered a hookup or dating someone who didn't meet your very specific standards suggests an underlying fear and aversion of both physical and emotional intimacy.

I'm not saying everyone should have hook-ups, it's not everyone's thing, but if nothing happened organically and you never once felt like taking opportunity along the years I would say that suggests something is amiss that's not your being oppressed by society's dating standards.

Edited April 1, 2024 by FredEire

[BaileyB]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Motivation to change what exactly

Your attitude.

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, FredEire said:

If some girl wanted a hookup with you based on your profile I'd say that's a pretty clear sign the "sexual marketplace" hasn't deemed you completely unworthy as you've so often said.

The fact that you were well into your late 30s, had never slept with anyone had never considered a hookup or dating someone who didn't meet your very specific standards suggests an underlying fear and aversion of both physical and emotional intimacy.

I'm not saying everyone should have hook-ups, it's not everyone's thing, but if nothing happened organically and you never once felt like taking opportunity along the years I would say that suggests something is amiss that's not your being oppressed by society's dating standards.

I was put off by the overt poem she sent me and frankly if she was happy to hook up with me how many other random guys has she hooked up with, reason enough to avoid and inevitably her profile pictures were vague at best. Also my lack of experience would have made it unpleasant.

Not really, everything thing is so is geared toward a set goal, for years I did consider the hookup route but again could not attract anyone I wanted. Remember I have been lonely for a very long time so having someone to spend time with is equally important to the physical aspect.

Also I can't seduce people because I don't have that charm, I don't drink so this isn't helpful either, I did get close to hooking up twice in date's in both instances they had consumed far too much alcohol and despite being all over me, morally it felt wrong so I didn't.

Hookups are even more difficult than dating I think, you need supreme levels of self belief, supreme levels of confidence and a decent degree of attraction and preferably a fun personality, seemingly. It's quite difficult not having many of those!

 

 

[Wiseman2]

How long has it been since this date? 

[basil67]

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Also I can't seduce people because I don't have that charm

The idea of seduction comes straight from creeps, incel-land and D grade romantic fiction.   

Just unpack it for a moment:  seducing is about a man or woman enticing their date to have sex.....but because it's about luring them (as opposed to discovering a mutual, honest connection) consent then becomes murky.  Thankfully, I have never met a guy who can seduce - the whole premise is creepy.  And it's probably why I find "charm" revolting   Give me a regular guy with good social skills any day!

I would argue that men who respect women don't engage in charm and seduction

Edited April 2, 2024 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

28 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

How long has it been since this date? 

I didn't meet her.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

The idea of seduction comes straight from creeps, incel-land and D grade romantic fiction.   

Just unpack it for a moment:  seducing is about a man or woman enticing their date to have sex.....but because it's about luring them (as opposed to an honest connection) consent then becomes murky.  Thankfully, I have never met a guy who can seduce - the whole premise is creepy.  And it's probably why I find "charm" revolting   Give me a regular guy with good social skills any day!

I would argue that men who respect women don't engage in charm and seduction

I agree with you for the most part but for some that honest connection is very difficult and the entire thing becomes murky. I'd rather avoid those situations completely.

 

[basil67]

On 2/9/2024 at 5:39 PM, ZA Dater said:

in truth she is the sort of person I have always been looking for,

Don't do this to yourself!  Do not place anyone on a pedestal, let alone someone you've never met

[basil67]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

I agree with you for the most part but for some that honest connection is very difficult and the entire thing becomes murky. I'd rather avoid those situations completely.

I have no idea what you mean by the bolded.

Are you still going to be pushing the idea of charm and seduction?

[ZA Dater]

8 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I have no idea what you mean by the bolded.

Are you still going to be pushing the idea of charm and seduction?

No I purposely avoid those situations I have no charm but even if I did I'd avoid those sort of grey area situations much the same way I avoid situations where alcohol is present.

[ZA Dater]

13 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Don't do this to yourself!  Do not place anyone on a pedestal, let alone someone you've never met

I have met this person multiple times in social gatherings.

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

No I purposely avoid those situations I have no charm but even if I did I'd avoid those sort of grey area situations much the same way I avoid situations where alcohol is present.

If you agree that embarking on a charm/seduction offensive is murky, why do you complaining about not having those skills?

[basil67]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I have met this person multiple times in social gatherings.

Did you use the word "date" when you asked her out?  If not, it's highly likely that she thinks it's a meeting between friends.