Perspective

[NuevoYorko]

Self absorbed, wallowing in self pity, bitterly judgmental,  boring, and a boatload of aggrieved entitlement = lonely guy.  

[BaileyB]

Another thread with 18 more pages of the same old discussion = lonely and bored guy. 

[NuevoYorko]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

17 pages of whining. It must get exhausting. 

He's perfecting this - it's his superpower.

[Weezy1973]

13 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok answer me this...why did [incels] become like that, what do you think created those views and that thinking, not all of which I agree with.

A sense of entitlement and social media where they can connect with others with the same sense of entitlement.
 

As I mentioned before I had a crush on the captain of the cheerleading squad in high school, but she of course was interested in a football player. But  I never was angry at the world for it. And I adjusted. And please don’t read that as “settled”. I dated many women, and am now married to someone who I’m very compatible with and also very attracted to. 
 

Incels are still hung up on the cheerleader and think it’s the fault of the world. They believe they’re entitled to the cheerleader. But they don’t want to become the football player. 

[FredEire]

17 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

A sense of entitlement and social media where they can connect with others with the same sense of entitlement.
 

As I mentioned before I had a crush on the captain of the cheerleading squad in high school, but she of course was interested in a football player. But  I never was angry at the world for it. And I adjusted. And please don’t read that as “settled”. I dated many women, and am now married to someone who I’m very compatible with and also very attracted to. 
 

Incels are still hung up on the cheerleader and think it’s the fault of the world. They believe they’re entitled to the cheerleader. But they don’t want to become the football player. 

Which is the root of "nice guy syndrome". They feel they deserve the most beautiful women because of a load of vague positive qualities the most common of which is being really "nice", which is usually code for being a completely unassertive pushover.

There's nothing stopping anyone becoming become a strong, assertive individual. It's not dependent on how handsome and rich you are.

[ZA Dater]

22 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Which is the root of "nice guy syndrome". They feel they deserve the most beautiful women because of a load of vague positive qualities the most common of which is being really "nice", which is usually code for being a completely unassertive pushover.

There's nothing stopping anyone becoming become a strong, assertive individual. It's not dependent on how handsome and rich you are.

Hahaha! Sorry but this made me laugh, a push over I am not, I could not do the job I do and deal with incredibly difficult people if I were a pushover. 

[ZA Dater]

45 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

A sense of entitlement and social media where they can connect with others with the same sense of entitlement.
 

As I mentioned before I had a crush on the captain of the cheerleading squad in high school, but she of course was interested in a football player. But  I never was angry at the world for it. And I adjusted. And please don’t read that as “settled”. I dated many women, and am now married to someone who I’m very compatible with and also very attracted to. 
 

Incels are still hung up on the cheerleader and think it’s the fault of the world. They believe they’re entitled to the cheerleader. But they don’t want to become the football player. 

 You adjusted, please tell me how you adjusted? Which came first compatibility or attraction? 

One the one hand you tell me superficial traits are irrelevant and on the other you tell me "become the football player" either those superficial things matter or they do not? Which is it?

Entitled, again where did I say I was entitled to anything, having a preference is suddenly being entitled? Being unwilling to bend over backwards and compromise is entitled? I think not on both of those.

I am actually more hung up on an overall level of attraction rather than one facet but I guess that's also wrong, I like people who captivate me in some way or other, again I suppose that is wrong too. Over the years we have had this debate and while I respect your opinion I think your 'date to your level" is what amounts to a social form of communism, I am sure it works very well but what aspiration is there in doing that?

Anyone ever wonder why Incels exists if this dating system so perfect or why the divorce rate is high among most societies? You are all smart, connect the dots, just perhaps things do not work as well for everyone as you'd like to imagine.....

Somebody here is right, we can create our own happiness. Mine is sitting with attractive people being intellectually stimulated, it is absolutely not sitting with someone I need to think "yeah I am really not into you at all but well you are the only person who will go out with me".

I am happier believing in the seemingly impossible than an "average" reality.

[Gaeta]

14 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Hahaha! Sorry but this made me laugh, a push over I am not, I could not do the job I do and deal with incredibly difficult people if I were a pushover. 

There is a difference between who we are in the business world and who we are in a relationship or the dating world. 

You feel confident in your professional qualities so that's why you use it to come close to these attractive women, it's your disguise. By yourself, without your professional shield, you are hopeless.

[ZA Dater]

13 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

There is a difference between who we are in the business world and who we are in a relationship or the dating world. 

You feel confident in your professional qualities so that's why you use it to come close to these attractive women, it's your disguise. By yourself, without your professional shield, you are hopeless.

Probably true, much like guys will use good humour to get close to attractive women or work out at the gym.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

 You adjusted, please tell me how you adjusted?

I broadened the pool of women I was interested in. Once I loosened the laser focus on the cheerleader, I noticed there were many attractive folks around. 

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Which came first compatibility or attraction? 

There would always need to be a minimum level of attraction, but even just moderate attraction would turn into fireworks when there was compatibility. And the other way too - extreme attraction could fizzle to nothing when there’s no chemistry. 

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

One the one hand you tell me superficial traits are irrelevant and on the other you tell me "become the football player" either those superficial things matter or they do not? Which is it?

Superficial traits are irrelevant in that people all up and down the attractiveness spectrum can find love. However if you insist on only the cheerleader, you better be a football player. 
 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Entitled, again where did I say I was entitled to anything, having a preference is suddenly being entitled? Being unwilling to bend over backwards and compromise is entitled?

Your bitterness is the sure sign of entitlement. If you didn’t feel entitled you would be contently single, but as this and the many other threads you have shown, you’re not. 

 

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I think your 'date to your level" is what amounts to a social form of communism…

I’m just letting you know the facts. Couples match in terms of attractiveness. Lots of research done on this. Sure there are exceptions out there, but usually there’s a caveat. The “ugly” one is often very wealthy. Or famous. Or talented. Or accomplished. You can fight it all you want, but it’s just a fact.

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Anyone ever wonder why Incels exists if this dating system so perfect or why the divorce rate is high among most societies?

What does the divorce rate have to do with anything? We’re talking about getting a date.

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

I broadened the pool of women I was interested in. Once I loosened the laser focus on the cheerleader, I noticed there were many attractive folks around. 

 

There would always need to be a minimum level of attraction, but even just moderate attraction would turn into fireworks when there was compatibility. And the other way too - extreme attraction could fizzle to nothing when there’s no chemistry. 

 

Superficial traits are irrelevant in that people all up and down the attractiveness spectrum can find love. However if you insist on only the cheerleader, you better be a football player. 
 

Your bitterness is the sure sign of entitlement. If you didn’t feel entitled you would be contently single, but as this and the many other threads you have shown, you’re not. 

 

 

I’m just letting you know the facts. Couples match in terms of attractiveness. Lots of research done on this. Sure there are exceptions out there, but usually there’s a caveat. The “ugly” one is often very wealthy. Or famous. Or talented. Or accomplished. You can fight it all you want, but it’s just a fact.

 

What does the divorce rate have to do with anything? We’re talking about getting a date.

Ok well I am glad you found success.

Oddly for me low level's of attraction will equate to poor level of compatability. Oddly your facts don't match the facts of others in this thread which I suppose why perception is important.

Find me many people contented being lonely and single...I'll agree to disagree..

Ok all people can find love, why are millions single, why are there incels? I suppose every single one of those people are all at fault.

What's attractive to you?

I'll agree to a degree on compatability to some degree but for me it cannot make up for a lack of physical attraction, immediate friend zone.

This has all been very helpful and I actually feel quite fine walking the lonely road I do, I'll find people who captivate me and thats better than waking up next to "average '.

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

There is a difference between who we are in the business world and who we are in a relationship or the dating world. 

You feel confident in your professional qualities so that's why you use it to come close to these attractive women, it's your disguise. By yourself, without your professional shield, you are hopeless.

Exactly. I knew people in the debating society in university, so many of them could eviscerate anyone with their words but when it came to women if any female so much as said boo to them they'd become hopeless quivering jellyfish, desperate for any scrap of attention they may recieve.

Sounds a lot like this is your case as well, OP. You are confident in your lane but try and apply the same principles to things like dating and fail to realise the rules are different, and get frustrated when it doesn't work.

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Exactly. I knew people in the debating society in university, so many of them could eviscerate anyone with their words but when it came to women if any female so much as said boo to them they'd become hopeless quivering jellyfish, desperate for any scrap of attention they may recieve.

Sounds a lot like this is your case as well, OP. You are confident in your lane but try and apply the same principles to things like dating and fail to realise the rules are different, and get frustrated when it doesn't work.

All of which is true. I'll just have to accept that, get whatever attention I can from people I do find attractive and just make do with the fact they won't ever date me. It is what it is. Dating someone unattractive to simply date is a waste of time. 

I'll just be there for this lady if she communicates great, if not then so be it. 

 

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

All of which is true. I'll just have to accept that, get whatever attention I can from people I do find attractive and just make do with the fact they won't ever date me. It is what it is. Dating someone unattractive to simply date is a waste of time. 

I'll just be there for this lady if she communicates great, if not then so be it. 

 

How about: make yourself a better man and work on your confidence, and don't give a f*ck about the attention of women or lack thereof.

The main person in your life has got to be you. Learn to love yourself and be your own best friend. What some woman you don't even know thinks of you should be way down your list of priorities.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, FredEire said:

How about: make yourself a better man and work on your confidence, and don't give a f*ck about the attention of women or lack thereof.

The main person in your life has got to be you. Learn to love yourself and be your own best friend. What some woman you don't even know thinks of you should be way down your list of priorities.

Been doing that for years, I'd actually like to try apply that to the extent of can find mutual attraction. I crave someone to share life with that's the fundamental problem abs equally I'd love to experience mutual attraction.

[Weezy1973]

26 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I actually feel quite fine walking the lonely road I do, I'll find people who captivate me and thats better than waking up next to "average '.

Again, clearly not true. You don’t feel “quite fine” walking the lonely road. You’re posting on here screams otherwise.

You know when you stopped posting on here? When you were with your “average” ex. 

 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Probably true, much like guys will use good humour to get close to attractive women or work out at the gym.

Otherwise known as basic social skills…

[FredEire]

16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Been doing that for years, I'd actually like to try apply that to the extent of can find mutual attraction. I crave someone to share life with that's the fundamental problem abs equally I'd love to experience mutual attraction.

Well you obviously didn't do a very good job as you are so stressed and upset about what women think of you. If only something existed which could help people change their negative thinking and behavioural patterns...

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

and thats better than waking up next to "average

The majority of people are average....you are average...we're all average. Nothing wrong with average. 

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Oddly your facts don't match the facts of others in this thread which I suppose why perception is important.

Facts are facts whether people want to believe them or not. You can Google “matching phenomenon” and see the research for yourself.

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

What's attractive to you?

I’ve already answered this, but if you’re talking superficially attractive (I.e. things you can assess on a first date and nothing deeper than that), I’m attracted to: slim, feminine and intelligent. If a woman had all three I’d inevitably want a second date. Many didn’t want a second date with me, but some did. And my now wife wanted many…

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok all people can find love, why are millions single, why are there incels? I suppose every single one of those people are all at fault. 

To be clear, the title "incel" reflects a belief that they guys are entitled to sex, and this entitlement does make for some very unpleasant attitudes from those dudes.  So I will use the term 'perennially single' (PS) so as not have the good people confused with the unpleasant postings of others. 

I would wager that a significant percentage of PS guys are neurodiverse....Autism Spectrum Disorder.  Or Aspergers/High functioning autism in the old language.   And the increasing numbers of PS guys is related to a) finding each other on the internet and creating community and b) increasing rates of ASD.   ASD is a social skill disorder so it stands to reason that a person who's social skills are off will have more trouble dating.    In the old days, these guys would have ended up as monks running a printing press, but now they can find work doing really high level thinking.  I've heard it joked that NASA is the largest sheltered workshop in the world. 

I know you reject the idea of you possibly being neurodiverse and also don't want to be friends with/date people who are like you, but your individual attitude doesn't change the outcome

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

..where did I say I was entitled to anything, having a preference is suddenly being entitled? Being unwilling to bend over backwards and compromise is entitled?  

Having a preference is not entitled.  Complaining that you can't get that preference is entitled.  

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Oddly your facts don't match the facts of others in this thread which I suppose why perception is important.

Still on your response to @Weezy1973, which of his face don't match the facts of others in this thread?  I think what he wrote is a fair reflection of what many of us have said. 

[NuevoYorko]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Probably true, much like guys will use good humour to get close to attractive women or work out at the gym.

That's fine, because those guys have worthwhile qualities besides their sense of humor or muscles that the women grow to care about and ultimately to love.  Or, not - if the guys do not have deeper worthwhile qualities.  Those guys will spend their years whining about how they've been treated so unfairly by the gorgeous, mean supermodels.  

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Again, clearly not true. You don’t feel “quite fine” walking the lonely road. You’re posting on here screams otherwise.

You know when you stopped posting on here? When you were with your “average” ex. 

 

Yes and that relationship did not work because I tried something which did not work, make no mistake she is a lovely person, has a great bf now and we still speak. The fundamental problem was I could never find those feelings of attraction, wasn't as if I wanted to spend every waking hour with her. I tried and tried to feel that way but I could not. I do however miss that closeness because to some extent loneliness was far reduced.

[ZA Dater]

40 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

That's fine, because those guys have worthwhile qualities besides their sense of humor or muscles that the women grow to care about and ultimately to love.  Or, not - if the guys do not have deeper worthwhile qualities.  Those guys will spend their years whining about how they've been treated so unfairly by the gorgeous, mean supermodels.  

Ok thank you so indeed superficial is important glad this has been ascertained. I agree with you on this one it's just much harder if you do not have superficial qualities, would you agree with that?

I do think there is a middle road here in terms of compromise but it's almost impossible to actually do in practice. I am at the stage where I look at what is possible maybe and what is impossible, that means looking at myself from the perspective of others.

Not a very comfortable experience it has to be said.

I do think my strongest attributes are loyalty, kindness, generosity and honesty. Maybe too much honesty.

Intelligence, maybe, ability to problem solve yes, ability to talk in topics yes. Some degree of physical fitness yes. 

Negatives, severe lack of confidence, intensity, negativity some of the time, lack of self belief in dating. Shy sometimes awkward. Lack of experience which I let define me. Probably degree of desperation and waning interest.