Gebidozo Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Foxhall said: my idea is based on the principle that a woman who is more humble will be easier to bond with , than a woman who has been a high achiever , a woman who has a lot of self confidence, Hmm, I don’t think a humble woman would want to bond with the OP. Humble people are confident, because you can only be humble if you know your true value. Otherwise it’s not humility, it’s just self-denigration, lack of self-respect. The OP is decidedly not humble, quite on the contrary. Edited March 29 by Gebidozo 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, Foxhall said: Hypothetically I imagine a ukrainian woman, who doesnt have a job, doesnt have much money and so on- they would be perfectly happy to meet Za Dater, who would be an excellent catch for them. Hypothetically, these women leave once they have their papers. OP has unrealistic expectations. He's an average man, who's looking for a 6' tall super model arm candy, but doesn't have the personality, confidence or the Porsche to attract the Jessica Biel of this world. To him it's a super model or nothing. He cannot recognize the beauty in between Super Model and ugly. To him there is no middle. There are beautiful average women out there, he doesn't see them. Like someone said in this tread OP is the result of too much porn, tiktok, instagrams and what ever else social app out there. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 16 minutes ago, Gaeta said: Like someone said in this tread OP is the result of too much porn, tiktok, instagrams and what ever else social app out there. I don’t think so. OP has little to no self worth. He believes that a beautiful woman being attracted to him will mean he’s worthy of being loved. He’s letting his whole sense of worthiness be predicated on his desirability with women. Which is also why he fears rejection so much. If they reject him, it just confirms what he already believes - that he’s not worthy of being loved. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 2 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: He believes that a beautiful woman being attracted to him will mean he’s worthy of being loved Yes but that has its root somewhere. Tall, slim, big lips, women are all over social media, they are admired and envied. If a woman like that would love him then that would give him value. If we were in 1954 then short plump blond size 13 would be his thing. That's what media identified as beautiful with Marilyn Monroe. He glorifies what media glorifies. It's normal to have a type but with OP it's not a type anymore, it's a prison he built for himself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 22 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: I don’t think so. OP has little to no self worth. He believes that a beautiful woman being attracted to him will mean he’s worthy of being loved. He’s letting his whole sense of worthiness be predicated on his desirability with women. Which is also why he fears rejection so much. If they reject him, it just confirms what he already believes - that he’s not worthy of being loved. Or maybe it's not a fear of rejection but a fear or acceptance. He is clearly comfortable not being good enough, what if he was good enough for someone, how scary would that be? There's also been very little thought out into the fact that relationships are challenging, and meeting someone you like who also likes you are only the first step, they have to be managed by both parties and aren't always fun. I don't think he feels emotionally capable for this so he prefers to put up so many barriers to a relationship that he can tell himself the lie, "if only I met a beautiful woman who loved me my life would be perfect". And he can live vicariously through this lie and analyse it and beat himself up as much as he wants, because there are too many roadblocks that he's put in front of himself for it to ever become more than a fantasy. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 minute ago, Gaeta said: Yes but that has its root somewhere. It’s irrelevant. Cultural standards of beauty morph and change through time and geography, but there’s always some standard of beauty. And if you live in a culture (which we all do) chances are what you find beautiful will be whatever your culture deems to be beautiful (broadly). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 2 minutes ago, FredEire said: Or maybe it's not a fear of rejection but a fear or acceptance. That certainly seemed to be the case last year when OP dated a woman for several months. In the end, he left the relationship because he just wasn’t feeling it/she was more invested than he felt at the time. We asked questions and got vague answers - but it seemed like when the relationship reached a point that he needed to commit and get physical, he bailed… 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BaileyB said: That certainly seemed to be the case last year when OP dated a woman for several months. In the end, he left the relationship because he just wasn’t feeling it/she was more invested than he felt at the time. We asked questions and got vague answers - but it seemed like when the relationship reached a point that he needed to commit and get physical, he bailed… I wasn't on these boards last year. So there was a relationship without any sort of sexual element? I've long got the impression that this may be an issue for OP, feeling sexually stunted and impotent could be a large factor in all the resentment issues and self-loathing. Of course it's a deeply-rooted psychological issue usually that has everything to do with his relationship with himself and his childhood and nothing to do with potential dating partners or the "sexual marketplace". And the way to treat it is, you guessed it, go to therapy. The issue I think is that confronting issues like this is massively difficult and likely involves huge amounts of emotional pain and introspection. Rather than go through the difficulty of this, the east way out is to create the unobtainable women and "sexual marketplace" strawman. At the same time, trash the idea of therapy as it's a load of "useless sitting around and talking". Edited March 29 by FredEire 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) @BaileyB: Funny you post that, I was reading those same threads in his history. On very fist page he speaks of this women being too good for him. If anything she is probably far too good for me and more than I actually deserve Edited March 29 by Gaeta Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) If memory serves, the relationship lasted for several months and ended because there was a lack of progression, definition, and I don’t believe it ever progressed to a sexual “romantic” relationship (repeated questions were ignored). Despite the comment that she was a good woman or “too good for him,” I believe he spent the entire time trying to convince himself that he could settle for a woman/relationship that he felt was not truly what he wanted… ie, she was more interested/he was never sure that he was attracted to her. Edited March 29 by BaileyB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Sexual and emotionally frigidity, it's hard stuff that there's no easy way out of, it can take years and years of work and that's the reality. While I've never had much of an issue on the physical side I can definitely relate to the emotional part somewhat, it's not particularly nice when you get to the root of what's causing it. At this point I think it's clear that his complaining about not being able to find a big-booty 6ft beautiful woman is a convenient comfort blanket and a red herring that he can happily go round and round analysing and agonising over without it ever going anywhere. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 After reading OPs previous threads it seems clear this woman was interested in him, wanted something but he had no clue how to proceed and felt totally powerless. It's interesting how in the intervening time he's mentally flipped the script from him struggling to figure out how to be a bit partner to him just not being interested in her. That's the thing, even if this fantasy dream woman came along OP knows deep down he wouldn't have a clue how to react and ultimately the same issues would crop up. But by saying he can only date a very specific woman he disqualifies most potential partners and so he's safe from even getting that far. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
balin Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) That is a very good question FredEire. How DO you escalate from friendship and interest, intellect, hiking and doing things together into romance. Something must be there already if ye are doing it but how to move into romance. How to proceed indeed if already possibly friendzoned. How to save this and make it romantic, because I have been too slow. Edited March 30 by balin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gebidozo Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 16 minutes ago, balin said: That is a very good question FredEire. How DO you escalate from friendship and interest, intellect, hiking and doing things together into romance. Something must be there already if ye are doing it but how to move into romance. How to proceed indeed if already possibly friendzoned. How to save this and make it romantic, because I have been too slow. If you’re already friendzoned, there is no “proceeding”. Unless you want to become one of those “friends” who lurk near a woman for years with the patience of a hyena, waiting for a moment when she becomes emotionally vulnerable and perhaps agrees to have sex with them. You don’t want to be that kind of guy. The only way to know whether you’ve been friendzoned or not is to make a move. Kiss her. If she kisses you back, you aren’t in the friendzone (at least not yet). If she doesn’t, you probably are, and it’s time to move on. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 4 hours ago, balin said: How DO you escalate from friendship and interest, intellect, hiking and doing things together into romance. By telling her that you really enjoy her company and ask if you could take her on a date. Make sure to use the word 'date' so that she knows it's got romantic undertones 4 hours ago, balin said: Something must be there already if ye are doing it but how to move into romance. Not necessarily. Women can be friends with guys who they don't have romantic feels for Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 10 hours ago, balin said: That is a very good question FredEire. How DO you escalate from friendship and interest, intellect, hiking and doing things together into romance. Something must be there already if ye are doing it but how to move into romance. How to proceed indeed if already possibly friendzoned. How to save this and make it romantic, because I have been too slow. There has to be a flirty, physical aspect to the relationship from early on. Teasing, respectful playful touching and a lot of laughing, all of these build attraction. There's no easy way to fake this though as PUAs try to do. You just have to be in touch with your sexuality/masculinity and having a good time in life. I think I the "friend zone" develops most often either when interactions are dry or overly polite or they enjoy your company but don't find you physically attractive and the chemistry isn't enough to compensate for that. In either of those cases you have to either accept you've gained a friendship and enjoy it for what it's worth, or if there's too many feelings involved respectfully cut her off. Don't hang around like a bad smell desperately trying to get out of the "zone", once her mind is made up it ain't happening. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) OP is strangely quiet, maybe our last posts -finally - got through to him and has given him pause for reflection. Edited March 30 by FredEire Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gebidozo Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 2 minutes ago, FredEire said: There has to be a flirty, physical aspect to the relationship from early on. Teasing, respectful playful touching and a lot of laughing, all of these build attraction. There's no easy way to fake this though as PUAs try to do. You just have to be in touch with your sexuality/masculinity and having a good time in life. I think I the "friend zone" develops most often either when interactions are dry or overly polite or they enjoy your company but don't find you physically attractive and the chemistry isn't enough to compensate for that. In either of those cases you have to either accept you've gained a friendship and enjoy it for what it's worth, or if there's too many feelings involved respectfully cut her off. Don't hang around like a bad smell desperately trying to get out of the "zone", once her mind is made up it ain't happening. Exactly. Some guys have this weird idea that they have to wait a long time before making a move, otherwise the woman will think they are being disrespectful and “only want sex”. As a result, they basically keep dragging the women they date into friendzones. They don’t seem to understand that women like active, decisive guys who show initiative and don’t hide their attraction. Nobody likes hesitant, self-doubting, passive, insecure guys. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gebidozo Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 10 minutes ago, FredEire said: OP is strangely quiet, maybe our last posts -finally - got through to him and has given him pause for reflection. Either that, or he is busy self-deprecatingly friendzoning another tall, slim, childless woman. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FredEire Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 17 minutes ago, Gebidozo said: Exactly. Some guys have this weird idea that they have to wait a long time before making a move, otherwise the woman will think they are being disrespectful and “only want sex”. As a result, they basically keep dragging the women they date into friendzones. They don’t seem to understand that women like active, decisive guys who show initiative and don’t hide their attraction. Nobody likes hesitant, self-doubting, passive, insecure guys. Yeah either that or it's just not having a set of cojones. There's a lot men out there who leave it up to the woman to make the first move. Good luck with that mate, there may be a very rare occasion if she's really into you that'll happen but more often it'll just lead to a whole lot of frustration. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 9 hours ago, Gebidozo said: They don’t seem to understand that women like active, decisive guys who show initiative and don’t hide their attraction. Nobody likes hesitant, self-doubting, passive, insecure guys. You know there's a midline, right? My husband has a history of dating women who made the first move (including me), but nobody who knows him would call him hesitant, self-doubting, passive or insecure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gebidozo Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 5 hours ago, basil67 said: You know there's a midline, right? My husband has a history of dating women who made the first move (including me), but nobody who knows him would call him hesitant, self-doubting, passive or insecure. Of course. But we’re talking about guys in situations where the women aren’t making the first move, guys who hesitate when it’s clearly time to act. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 11 hours ago, basil67 said: You know there's a midline, right? My husband has a history of dating women who made the first move (including me), but nobody who knows him would call him hesitant, self-doubting, passive or insecure. As the OP has pointed out, it’s possible to be confident and self assured in some aspects in life, but not others. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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