The real truth : Domestic Violence

[blind_otter]

Part of my problem is that I have always been quick to forgive. My mother would beat me and then fall into deep depressions about what she had done and she would force me to show her my loving behavior after she had victimized me mightily.

 

In retrospect all the abusive men I've dated have followed that specific pattern. They would hurt me, trash my house and property, and then curl up into a ball and cry like little children. Instead of pushing them away, I would offer them my sympathy and love to make them feel better, codependently enabling the abuse to continue.

 

I have been part and parcel to the abuse I've received. I allowed it to happen.

 

And my shame and humiliation is 10 times worse for it.

[Craig]

blind_otter, how can there be shame when awareness was not present when the events of childhood occurred? What adult would foist humiliation upon the reactions of an innocent child? There is no shame and humiliation is not appropriate here.

 

Now that you are aware, you take steps to avoid situations like that again. Whats done is done, no need to beat up the adult because the child didn't know.

[alphamale]

Yes , while I was aware that Alpha had some hate issues with women ,

I don't really have any "hate" issues with women. I just think that men shold behave like men and that women should behave like women. And that men should dominate. Its a traditionalist's point of view that does not appeal to some people. So what? Its worked well for me and the women I've been with in the past may make a big fuss about it but when the dust settles many women like the man to be in charge and in control.

 

I was also had traditionalistic parents so that is whats normal for me.

[Outcast]

Why are so many woman hours wasted in the attempt to make some sort of emotional connection with misogynists?

 

Exactly as you've seen here, the misogynists will first present a charming side so you maybe start to think they're pretty nifty. Then, when they start spouting their real views, you think they're just being funny, as is the classic case on this board. If you're paying attention, you mabye figure it out fast that they're not kidding. However if you're so convinced that those sorts are throwbacks that don't exist anymore, you'll probably go along for quite a while thinking they're being funny.

 

Part of my problem is that I have always been quick to forgive. My mother would beat me and then fall into deep depressions about what she had done and she would force me to show her my loving behavior after she had victimized me mightily.

 

Classic abuser pattern.

 

In retrospect all the abusive men I've dated have followed that specific pattern. They would hurt me, trash my house and property, and then curl up into a ball and cry like little children. Instead of pushing them away, I would offer them my sympathy and love to make them feel better, codependently enabling the abuse to continue.

 

So to overcome this, you have to insert firmly in your brain that people who do this are badly broken and no amount of your love can fix them. Therefore at the first sign that someone is like that, even if he's an otherwise great guy, you MUST leave and not look back.

 

Some women read about the cycle of abuse but when it happens to them, don't connect what they're experiencing with what they've read. Others see all the good qualities and want to believe that the abuse is anomaly and an be overcome. Still others don't know about the cycle of abuse at all. But once you understand that 'hurt - apologize - promise to change - hurt' is the only way these people can operate, and that this is not easily repaired, least of all by 'love', then you understand that you have to walk away.

 

I have been part and parcel to the abuse I've received. I allowed it to happen.

 

NO you didn't. You didn't say to yourself 'this guy is abusing me. I'll allow it'. What you have done that you have to take responsibility for from now on is allowed yourself to believe that YOUR love can make him happy enough to abandon abuse. That you can love him into healing. You must never again allow yourself to believe this is possible. It's normal to do so - you must fight the urge.

[blind_otter]

That was an awesome and well thought out reply. Thank you.

[Outcast]

You're welcome!

[Woggle]

Stop spreading this kind of bullsh*t... You are defaming people who stand up for your rights, just because you got screwed over by some women who under the pretense to be feminists acted out on their selfish impulses.

 

And stop telling me how great your girlfriend is and how she also despises feminists, she wouldn't be now where she is if there hadn't been other women in the past who faught for her bloody right to have a career and to find personal fulfillment in whatever she does. It's the fact that she is 41 and not married that signals that the times have changed, in the past she would have been called an old maiden who didn't manage to find herself a husband. Social pressure would not have allowed her the option to stay single and be picky about a husband. Go to rural places and see what traditions expect women to be and what the options for their future are before you talk such a rubbish!

 

Feminism has nothing to do with destroying feminity, it's about having the same rights, having choices and not being confined to other people's idea on how a woman should be. If I want to go sexy, I'll dress sexy, if I don't want to, I will not wear a freaking skirt just to please you and your idea on how a woman has to dress in order to be a real woman.

 

The fact that a woman like her no longer embraces the feminist label shos how the feminist movement has been hijacked by manhaters. She pretty much says that she fully believes in equality and she realizes that feminist used to be a good word but she does not embrace hate movements. She said that when she read the Scum manifesto she knew radical feminism was something she wanted no part of. Not all manhaters are like this but the ones that are have started to define the movement. It is sort of like christians. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson define the religion right now.

[Outcast]

she knew radical feminism was something she wanted no part of. Not all manhaters are like this but the ones that are have started to define the movement. It is sort of like christians. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson define the religion right now

 

That's only if the uncritical public allows radicals to hijack the mainstream. Your gf should not run from the term 'feminism' because a few nutjobs have tried to usurp it. Rather, she should stand firm in defence of the original and continuing ideals of equality for all rather than dominace of any one. Same goes for the non-fundie Christians who sit idly by while the fundies try to steal the title of 'Christian' for themselves alone.

 

It's pretty sad that the mainstream chickens out and runs every time the bullies try to take over the schoolyard.

[loony]

The fact that a woman like her no longer embraces the feminist label shos how the feminist movement has been hijacked by manhaters. She pretty much says that she fully believes in equality and she realizes that feminist used to be a good word but she does not embrace hate movements. She said that when she read the Scum manifesto she knew radical feminism was something she wanted no part of. Not all manhaters are like this but the ones that are have started to define the movement. It is sort of like christians. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson define the religion right now.

I can only say that I got called a 'manhating feminist' on this board just because I was questioning certain traditions like taking your future husband's name. That does make me wonder who is really having the problem here. And as long as women in some parts of the world are denied basic rights and used as cheap labor and sex slaves I would not say that feminism has approached its deserved ending yet.

 

And what kind of argument is this, just because a branch has been radicalized by some wackos, the whole movement is defamed? Excuse me, I hope she has stopped calling herself a Christian, because as we all know, Bush wouldn't be on top of your country if it wasn't for some radical Christians who voted for him. Has this motivated her to leave her belief as well?

 

Anyway, that's my last word on this thread as it's too off-topic.

[Woggle]

I can only say that I got called a 'manhating feminist' on this board just because I was questioning certain traditions like taking your future husband's name. That does make me wonder who is really having the problem here. And as long as women in some parts of the world are denied basic rights and used as cheap labor and sex slaves I would not say that feminism has approached its deserved ending yet.

 

And what kind of argument is this, just because a branch has been radicalized by some wackos, the whole movement is defamed? Excuse me, I hope she has stopped calling herself a Christian, because as we all know, Bush wouldn't be on top of your country if it wasn't for some radical Christians who voted for him. Has this motivated her to leave her belief as well?

 

Anyway, that's my last word on this thread as it's too off-topic.

 

The fundies are the reason I no longer call myself a christian. From what I have seen you do not seem to hate men but i know mant feminists who do. My mother started getting into that feminist thing and she now hates my father and me. She hates her own son because he is a man. I remember her telling me that I was a worthless man jusrt luike my father so I know firsthand how hateful many feminists are.

[lindya]

That's only if the uncritical public allows radicals to hijack the mainstream. Your gf should not run from the term 'feminism' because a few nutjobs have tried to usurp it. Rather, she should stand firm in defence of the original and continuing ideals of equality for all rather than dominace of any one.

 

Precisely. There are areas in which many women still feel that they are treated less fairly than men (eg the perpetuation of sexual double standards) - and likewise many men feel that they get a rough deal in areas such as paternity rights.

 

The problems begin when people believe that the promotion of equality in such areas necessitates a hate-filled approach towards the opposite sex. Those people are often driven not so much by political ideals as by personal issues that have clouded their judgement and led them to become entrenched in the sort of extremist, resentment-fuelled stance that would alienate any reasonable person.

[loony]

My mother started getting into that feminist thing and she now hates my father and me. She hates her own son because he is a man. I remember her telling me that I was a worthless man jusrt luike my father so I know firsthand how hateful many feminists are.

Oh boy, that is tough! But this is not what feminism is about and a radicali can never be the norm. They are the ones who have taken their principles and beliefs to another level which leaves most people behind. It's simply wrong to assume that a radical minority reflects the opinion of the moderate majority.

[Woggle]

Oh boy, that is tough! But this is not what feminism is about and a radicalist can never be the norm. They are the ones who have taken their principles and beliefs to another level which leaves most people behind. It's simply wrong to assume that a radical minority reflects the opinion of the moderate majority.

 

I know that and honestly I think my GF is more a feminist in the traditional sense than she realizes but she genuinly likes men. Most of her friends are male. The nutsos though can kill any movement.

[Mary3]

Originally Posted by Mary3

Yes , while I was aware that Alpha had some hate issues with women ,

------------------------------

Quote Alpha :

" I don't really have any "hate" issues with women. I just think that men shold behave like men and that women should behave like women. And that men should dominate. Its a traditionalist's point of view that does not appeal to some people. So what? Its worked well for me and the women I've been with in the past may make a big fuss about it but when the dust settles many women like the man to be in charge and in control.

 

I was also had traditionalistic parents so that is whats normal for me.

------------------------

Oh so you mean the woman should stay home and wash dishes while you toil the fields ?

You should hold the checking accounts hostage ?

You should be the lion in the den ?

I think this traditionalist thinking would have worked back in 1942 but alas ,its 2006 in just a few days ...

So by being * in control * you have all the *say so* and have your demands met.

How convienant for you.

I don't think you don't feel women have alot of value, their place is next to the washing machine and keeping them at home insures ( in your mind at least ) that she will be the faithful dutiful wife. Oh no wait maybe you will * allow * her to work...

I know ,I know you read all the books that told you to never show a warm emotional side ( thats being a man ) and women need to go get you a Beer ( thats being a woman )....

[Outcast]

I suppose the reason everyone thought he was joking is because those views are so archaic that nobody expects anybody under 60 to hold them. People usually grow beyond their parents' philosophies and develop their own ideas - and thank god for it. So it is startling to hear this mucho machismo point of view from someone born after 1940.

[Mary3]

He's not even an individualist...He is holding on to some old beliefs that barely exist ...

[Woggle]

Alpha seems like somebody who has been hurt one too many times by a woman. It doesn't make it right but I understand because I have been there.

[blind_otter]

I wonder if my more traditional views on gender roles have complicated my personal issues with abusive relationships? I was raised in such a strict home that men ate before women did.

 

I remember when my ex-husband came to meet my dad he sat down and ate first and was all freaked out as the family (I have all sisters) sat and started at him, grilling him with questions.

[alphamale]

(I have all sisters)

hmm interesting. All sisters?

 

sat and started at him, grilling him with questions.

like what questions?

[blind_otter]

hmm interesting. All sisters?

 

 

like what questions?

 

Yeah. My Dad mastered the art of "hiding behind the newspaper".

 

I dunno - what are your intentions, what are you career aspirations, do you have any investments, blah blah blah.

 

Now that was an interesting diversion.

[alphamale]

- what are your intentions,

my standard answer to the above was always: "I don't really have any...":lmao:

[whichwayisup]

my standard answer to the above was always: "I don't really have any...":lmao:

 

"...intention of telling you!"

[Mary3]

Meaning : " I don't have any intentions of sleeping with your daughter but I probrobly will "...

[alphamale]

Meaning : " I don't have any intentions of sleeping with your daughter but I probrobly will "...

a man usually doesnt' meet the parents until after he's done the nasty with the daughter

[TUDOR]

a man usually doesnt' meet the parents until after he's done the nasty with the daughter

 

And vice versa....I never introduced a girl I was dating to my parents until I had at least slept with her.