The real truth : Domestic Violence

[basscatcher]

You have my respect Pada. How strong you must have been to walk away. You're an amazing lady!

 

I was not strong when I walked away. I was a mess.. I felt like I would be alone for the rest of my life.. I thought no one would want me because I was used, divorced, with a child to care for... I thought to be alone was better then to be abused and walking on eggshells for the rest of my life...

 

I left him and the following fall I started college.. I couldn't go to college being with him because he was controlling and disruptive. I developed a balance of keeping myself busy and down time so I could reflect and heal. I sought out counceling also for myself and my son.

 

My first dating experience was with a guy from Iraq. So I was humiliated and used by the first guy I met after my divorce..(another story) It could have knocked me back but with my gf's support and my stubborn determination I forged forward and didn't go backward..

 

I'm not amazing. I am a survivor---I am but one of many many many people who have survived abuse.. Man or Woman...... I can admit that I have been on both sides of the fence.. I have been abused and I have abused..

[Craig]

I agree CRAIG....but if were going to talk about the real truth of abuse then we must mention that its not all about the women here. Men are abused emotionally and mentally each and every day by women. But no one mentions that.

 

It pisses me off royally that whenever this "abuse" discussion comes up it is usually about how women are mistreated by men. In reality men are abused just as much as women, if not more.

Whenever anyone offers me the "real truth" my guard goes up.

 

Men do suffer abuse at the hands of women, that is true. More discussion is given to men abusing women, that is also true. Things are changing however.

 

Globally (worldwide) and in some of the places I'd least expect the number of men reporting abuse at the hands of women is increasing exponentially (literally and yes I know what exponentially means), abused men are being written into the scripts for tv shows and movies. Discussions are taking place that talk about men being abused by women more and more. At one time I believe (but don't absolutely know) that it was thought that only men were abusive and women were only victims. Thanks to the woman on woman dv stats from lesbian relationships that attitude is changing.

 

In reality, and I think the newer studies are leaning in this direction, the abuse rate is probably near equal for men and women. One of the reasons that it was thought that men were the abusers has been mentioned by a poster in this thread--he didn't know it was abuse. Now, people are starting to learn that abuse is abuse and the abuser doesn't have a look or a gender.

 

I don't believe that one has to abuse or be abused, in fact I refuse to believe it. I am coming to the belief that one must stand up for what is right in the moment, be open, honest and direct in communication (at least in personal relationships) and be willing to let go of a person that does not share that belief. My life is too short to be spent saving people from themself.

[Art_Critic]

You have my respect Pada. How strong you must have been to walk away. You're an amazing lady!

 

Ditto here too..

[Craig]

I'm not amazing. I am a survivor---I am but one of many many many people who have survived abuse.. Man or Woman...... I can admit that I have been on both sides of the fence.. I have been abused and I have abused..

Well said, Padmekla! I agree you are a survivor and a thoughtful one at that. Thank you for posting.

[basscatcher]

There is an amazing book that was suggested to me by my Rape and Abuse councelor it is called :

 

The Gift of Fear.

 

Look it up. It is a good book. It isn't just about being physically abused.

It is a book everyone should read.

WE all have been desensitized to ourselfs and our instincts by all things in socieity. We need to listen to our intuitions and our natural given instincts.

It is a great book. Go check it out. It is a wake up call in all areas of life.

[lindya]

I remember feeling panicy, confused and desperate for him to leave me alone, not to touch me, to shut up and stop yelling at me. I remember starting to black out from the stress and the last thing I remember is staring at the Butcher Block of Knifes. I was focusing in on the big butcher one thinking "SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP".

 

When I came consious of myself he was gone and I was still standing in the kitchen staring at the knifes. I became scared of myself... I knew then if I didn't leave I would either kill him or he would eventually snap and kill me. I went and sat on the living room couch and my son (7 years old) came to me and put his little hands on my knees and looked me in the eyes and said 'Mom, It's time for us to leave!.'

 

I think that's a really powerful image of how things can end up when abuse escalates within the private confines of a relationship. I'm so sorry to hear you went through that, Pada - and very glad for both your sake and your son's that you managed to get out of that situation.

 

I think as you showed there, pushed to the limit even kind-hearted people have the capacity to become violent. Your response to that was to say "I have to get out of this situation. Feeling and thinking like this isn't normal. It's not healthy." That shows your character. Someone who cares not just for her own safety and well-being, but also for that of other people (including the man who was being abusive towards you).

 

I would be concerned about anyone who felt that their abusive treatment of another individual (whether physical or psychological) was justified....and additionally condoned by the fact that the person they were subjecting that treatment to hadn't walked away.

 

It seems to me that we can deal with the darker side of our characters in two ways. We can embrace it, rationalise it with words like "normal" "tough" and "real life" and adopt a selfish belief that others who decide to care about us must simply "put up or shut up"....or we can decide that being a mature and well-adjusted adult involves acknowledging then managing and controlling those darker aspects so that they don't cause endless misery and distress to others.

[alphamale]

I would be concerned about anyone who felt that their abusive treatment of another individual (whether physical or psychological) was justified....and additionally condoned by the fact that the person they were subjecting that treatment to hadn't walked away.

women initially choose the men they want to be with and 80% of the time it is the women who leave the men.

[basscatcher]

'AMEN, LINDYA'

 

Everything is about choices. If we don't like what is happening to us either change it if possible or get out of it.

 

"lord grant me the serentity to accept the things I cannot change; to change the things i can; and the wisdom to know the difference"

This maybe used mostly by AA but it is a wonderful saying for us to implement into our own lives even though we are not all alcoholics..

[alphamale]

This maybe used mostly by AA but it is a wonderful saying for us to implement into our own lives even though we are not all alcoholics..

no PADA, I think it works for bad-boy-aholics also

[basscatcher]

no PADA, I think it works for bad-boy-aholics also

 

There are many women as well as men who end up in bad relationships without realizing what it is until its upfront in the persons face.

 

I have been in relationships that gradually (very gradually) turned bad. It was so subtle I didn't see it happening until enough of it built up and I saw it upon refection or someone pointing out to me how I was being desensitized and didn't recognize it..

 

Yes i do agree there are women who intentionally are addicted to bad boys and thats what they crave.. They truthfully don't know anything other then being treated like crap. It is what they are familiar with and it is what they know how to cope with. It is basically all they know.

 

We are creatures of habit. If a person is use to being abused and knows no other way it is very very very difficult to get them out of that kind of enviroment.. It's been proven through research and studies.

 

There are many of us out there who do NOT want that. We chose to not live in that repeated pattern and know better. WE CHOSE TO GET OUT.

[Outcast]

There are many women as well as men who end up in bad relationships without realizing what it is until its upfront in the persons face.

 

Exactly. Some of the worst 'boys' start out looking like saints. It's the bait-and-switch tactics advocated by players that fool people.

[alphamale]

We are creatures of habit. If a person is use to being abused and knows no other way it is very very very difficult to get them out of that kind of enviroment.. It's been proven through research and studies.

an ex-girlfriend once confided in me that she had been treated poorly by men all her life. Starting with her bio father who left her mother. She then went on to say that when men treat her good she runs the other way because she does not know how to deal with it.

[JS17]

Exactly. Some of the worst 'boys' start out looking like saints. It's the bait-and-switch tactics advocated by players that fool people.

So true. My abusive ex was a social worker for school children and took care of his disabled mother. Another ex ran marathons for charity and claimed to be shy. The abuser was seriously messed up, the other one was just a giant @sshole. From the outside though, until you really got in there, they seemed like saints.

[basscatcher]

an ex-girlfriend once confided in me that she had been treated poorly by men all her life. Starting with her bio father who left her mother. She then went on to say that when men treat her good she runs the other way because she does not know how to deal with it.

 

Exactly........... It's hard.. I believe maturity, choice, and good support and counceling need to be implemented in order to break that kind of cylce.

 

I was borderline with this. I had a difficult time adjusting but I chose to stick with it. I refused to allow another man to mistreat me and I have stood my ground even when I feel uncomfortable with being treated so nicely. Mr. L is like this. He is soo good and sweet to me and at times it is hard for me to understand it but I make a choice to accept it and I remind myself of how I felt when I was treated bad. I don't ever want that kind of treatment again.

[Art_Critic]

So true. My abusive ex was a social worker for school children and took care of his disabled mother. Another ex ran marathons for charity and claimed to be shy. The abuser was seriously messed up, the other one was just a giant @sshole. From the outside though, until you really got in there, they seemed like saints.

 

My last exgf was a newborn radiology tech in a trama center.. she worked on little newborn babies..

She was the most selfish mean person I've known.. when I brought it up to her she said she can't be selfish.. look what I do for work ??

 

I laughed.. Bait and Switch

[alphamale]

My last exgf was a newborn radiology tech in a trama center.. she worked on little newborn babies..

She was the most selfish mean person I've known.. when I brought it up to her she said she can't be selfish.. look what I do for work ??

my younger brother is a physician who helps people out all day long. unfortunately, in his personal life he can be very selfish and egotistical. he also treats women even worse than I do, and gets away with it cause he makes like $350,000 per year.

[JS17]

My last exgf was a newborn radiology tech in a trama center.. she worked on little newborn babies..

She was the most selfish mean person I've known.. when I brought it up to her she said she can't be selfish.. look what I do for work ??

 

I laughed.. Bait and Switch

I got the same thing from the N. He still thinks he's such a nice guy.

[SmoochieFace]

Well, now that we have an actual *admission of guilt* here, here's the next question: why? And why are abusers seemingly *proud* of what they do?

 

Are they simply sociopathic, i.e. they have no sense of shame and/or consequences? Do they believe the world simply revolves around them and that they can do anything they wish without any regard to other people's beliefs and feelings?

 

From where do these tendencies originate?

[basscatcher]

Well, now that we have an actual *admission of guilt* here, here's the next question: why? And why are abusers seemingly *proud* of what they do?

I think most abuse stems from either learned from authority growing up or developed from self defense and got out of control.

 

Are they simply sociopathic, i.e. they have no sense of shame and/or consequences?

I beleive they do carry shame, guilt and a multitude of other emotions they are too afraid to show.

 

Do they believe the world simply revolves around them and that they can do anything they wish without any regard to other people's beliefs and feelings?

Once again I don't think it is necessarily that, I think they just either don't know any better because they weren't raised with values and morals instilled in them by their parents or they are so angry about so many things they don't know how to control and understand it all. They become angry and lose control of themselves.

 

 

From where do these tendencies originate?

Many abusers come from homes with abuse. Children learn what they live... Without proper guidance they believe what they learned is ok, it is right, it is the way it is.

[Outcast]

Most abusers (and I'm talking about genuine abuse, not the 'I'm a badass' type of abuse which is bad, of course, but not quite the same ) have themselves been abused and have awful self-esteem. They have poor impulse control.

 

IMHO, they are like some of the posters we've seen here in that they think that somebody can 'fix' them. When the person they pick doesn't make them feel better about themselves, the anger that has built up over the abuse they've suffered and their rotten self-esteem is directed outward.

 

They don't mean to be violent or hurt people - that's why they are genuinely sorry after. However the combination of the anger plus the inability to control impulses is dangerous because they can't stop themselves no matter how much they'd like to. And afterwards, they minmize or cast blame because they already feel bad and awful and so cognitive dissonance kicks in so they can see themselves as good people. Mine was firmly convinced he was a 'nice guy'.

 

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Womens+Commission/Domestic+Violence/Profile+of+Abusers.htm

 

None of it, of course, is deliberate. It's all because they're badly damaged and cannot function normally. It takes heaps of therapy to fix these types.

[lindya]

There are many women as well as men who end up in bad relationships without realizing what it is until its upfront in the persons face.

 

I have been in relationships that gradually (very gradually) turned bad. It was so subtle I didn't see it happening until enough of it built up and I saw it upon refection or someone pointing out to me how I was being desensitized and didn't recognize it..

 

I think too that people who strive to be open-minded have to take care to avoid getting into harmful relationships. I've always had a strong desire to understand and explore different perspectives and outlooks....with the result that sometimes in the past I've got into relationships that leave my friends standing by shaking their heads. "He's just weird", "he's screwed up"...and I'll be defending him by saying "he's just got a different perspective."

 

Then you realise that as you've been busy trying to understand this different perspective, he's been busy gradually eroding your boundaries with a combination of rationalisation and dares. Dare to be different. The rules that apply to other people don't apply to people like you and me. How many women get seduced by messages like that?

 

You can lose yourself in the desire to understand another human being, until it gets to a stage where you're becoming amenable to accepting behaviour and situations that under normal circumstances you'd walk away from. Then because you've already invested so much of yourself into the relationship, and because you've made so many compromises in the quest to understand and relate to this other human, you're not quite sure who you are any more.

 

Yes i do agree there are women who intentionally are addicted to bad boys and thats what they crave.. They truthfully don't know anything other then being treated like crap. It is what they are familiar with and it is what they know how to cope with. It is basically all they know.

 

I think I prize honesty above all else - and sometimes it's very difficult to differentiate between a prick (I don't go for the "bad boy" phrase as it implies a sort of cuteness about something that isn't remotely cute in my eyes) and someone who's just honest about the imperfect being that he is. I guess the extent to which he takes pride in his imperfections is key.

 

IMHO, they are like some of the posters we've seen here in that they think that somebody can 'fix' them. When the person they pick doesn't make them feel better about themselves, the anger that has built up over the abuse they've suffered and their rotten self-esteem is directed outward.

 

Very sound point, O.

[Pyro]

Are they simply sociopathic, i.e. they have no sense of shame and/or consequences? Do they believe the world simply revolves around them and that they can do anything they wish without any regard to other people's beliefs and feelings?

 

From where do these tendencies originate?

 

IMHO, I believe that these type of people have no sympathy toward others. I feel as though they feel that the world revolves around them. They will do whatever it takes, and they will walk all over whoever it takes just to get what they want. Maybe these people were former victims of domestic abuse themselves, so they feel that it is ok to do it to others or they feel that "well if it happened to me, then others deserve to go through what I had to go through". Maybe they do it and they don't even realize it, although I can find that hard to believe.

 

Just a piece of mind from your local Riddler.

[Outcast]

You can lose yourself in the desire to understand another human being, until it gets to a stage where you're becoming amenable to accepting behaviour and situations that under normal circumstances you'd walk away from. Then because you've already invested so much of yourself into the relationship, and because you've made so many compromises in the quest to understand and relate to this other human, you're not quite sure who you are any more.

 

Guilty as charged!

[Outcast]

Maybe they do it and they don't even realize it, although I can find that hard to believe.

 

None of us is immune to the workings of our subconscious. It's there for a reason and tries to protect us. Unfortunately, the way it senses 'danger' and the methods it uses to 'protect' us can be very dysfunctional.

 

It's exceedingly important that parents treat their children well. An abused/neglected child is an abuser in the making.

[basscatcher]

SmoochieFace:

 

My XH comes from a extremly dysfunctional family. I have never known any family more messed up then his.

 

He comes from a family of 7 kids.

His mother was married twice.

His father married twice.

His mother had 7 kids with 4 different men.

His dad has 2 biological children two with his second wife and one they don't know if it is his or not so actually there are 8 children in the family if we count that stray one.

His father molested his two sisters repeatedly when they were young.

His father was an alcoholic.

His mother dropped out of school in 6th grade (she is 69 yrs old now).

His mother is not very intelligent and you can't have a normal conversation with her because she is like dealing with and talking to a 2nd grader and thats being nice. She has boasted about her younger years running around with truck drivers. Picking them up in truck stops going back to their trucks getting some nooky then leaving. (She has 2 kids by two truckers from her rondevues.)

All his brothers and his sisters are alcoholics and addicts.

His oldest brother is stuck in the 70s and baked. He sleeps in the streets from time to time and hardly ever has a job. He is scary to see on the streets. I am not afraid of him though because I know him.

His other brother is Gay, HIV possitive, and a Pediphile. He tried to molest his own nephews. He also has charges against him being with two underage girls. He's been in prison a few times and purposely gets himself put in jail during the winter months so he has free food, medical and a roof over his head.

His other brother wasn't nearly as bad, he liked to smoke weed but he was married to a good lady and had two very very intelligent children. He passed away of Lukiema a couple years back.

His other brother is a chovinistic, a**h***, he is the biggest male pig I have ever met in my life. He is a drunk and a addict, he is abusive and arrogant. I actually met him when he was in a medium security prison for fighting with his brother in the streets of Minneapolis and brandishing a knife.

The next brother I don't know very well, but I have heard he is gay and weird. He is into young girls also I heard, he steals and lies. He likes his smoke and drink too.

Now his sisters:

The one is married to a abusive neglectful man, she is a alcoholic and an addict. She is a fall down, big mouth, sloppy, nasty drunk. Her two sons are in and out of jail all the time and both are into dealing and stealing as a living.

The last sister is extremely overweight, is nasty unclean, an alcoholic and a user. She has a bad attitude and mouth. She also cowers when others are dominant. When she is under the influence she gets bigger then her britches. Her two children havent amounted to anything either..

 

My XH has fallen more into all their lifestyles since I walked out on him.

With all the dysfunction in his family and all the alcohol, drug and phsyical abuse he is a product of his upbringing.

He doesn't realize what is socially acceptable and what isn't. He doesn't know how to deal with stress and how to problemsolve.

 

I can see by looking at his whole life and where he comes from why he is the way he is. I truthfully don't know what it will take for him to get help.. He is lost..

 

So Smoochie-- If you can open your eyes and mind up and look at the BIG BIG BIG picture of someone you can see where some of not most of them come from and why they do what they do..

 

Also with so much embarrassment in ones family what do you think most would do?

I think they would become egotistical and not see reality.

They think their is nothing wrong with them because of the comparison to everyone else in his family. Therefore, he thinks there is nothing wrong with him and he doesn't need help.