For those of you using dating apps, how are you getting dates?

[basil67]

56 minutes ago, seamusharper said:

I really don't think I'm punching above my weight. The girls I am pursuing really aren't the cream-of-the-crop super models in the slightest. These are your typical above average females which I know doesn't exactly help in terms of describing them but I've seen men far less attractive than me with very attractive women. And I've gotten attention from very attractive women in the past. The blonde I got rejected by a few weeks ago actually asked about me previously when she first saw me so I know these aren't women above my pay grade, looks-wise.

That's some pretty serious objectification you've got going on there.   Not a single thing about emotional connection or the type of lifestyle she has....it's just what she looks like.   Come to think of it, this whole thread is about what she looks like.

Looks aside, what's the personality type of the woman you'd like?  What things would you want to enjoy with her?  Especially the younger ones...why would they want to spend time with you?   I believe that if you were able to humanise women, you'd possibly get further.

Of the attractive women who you have received attention from in the past, what kind of "attention" are we talking about and did it progress further?

56 minutes ago, seamusharper said:

I'm lacking in confidence and self-esteem for sure and that has been my biggest setback. I can't seem to crack that nut and I know I will have little success with women until I solve that. 

Are you lacking in confidence when you approach an average looking woman?  If you do have confidence with them, then the lack of confidence with more attractive women is because you're putting them on a pedestal. 

[Wiseman2]

It seems you would like instant gratification. Perhaps that's the same anxiety that is keeping you stuck like a deer in the headlights. 

[basil67]

36 minutes ago, basil67 said:

The blonde I got rejected by a few weeks ago actually asked about me previously when she first saw me so I know these aren't women above my pay grade, looks-wise.

I forgot to mention....she may have asked after you, but she didn't want to date you.   I know you missed out on building a rapport, but if she'd been properly interested in you, she would have said yes even without it.

Perhaps you're confusing her wondering who a stranger is vs being romantically interested in said stranger?

Edited February 22, 2024 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

I think there is a flip side to all of this, there are people who are doing very very well on OLD, think about it, if you are in the top % of superficial instant gratification would be very easy to find on OLD so clearly it does work and I cannot buy into the theory everyone on OLD has to lower their standards on OLD so OP do not do that.

In terms of age gaps, I think actually at 34 you can look at 23-29 as a viable age range, looking at 40+ makes no sense to me at all because your life phases will be very different. Added to which (at least where I find myself in the world) the trend is for the 23-29 age range to date up, in many respect for superficial reasons, in fact where I am from its not uncommon to find 29-34 ladies dating guys 45+, its just about meeting the requisite requirements, whatever they may be. My point, do not get to phased by age gaps.

Another tip with OLD, is you can sort of "teach" Tinder what you find attractive by absolutely not swiping right on people you do not find attractive, the worst thing you can do is swipe right on everyone, you wont get matches that way, boost your profile in the evenings too, this might help. Also try Bumble, this might work better for you because you can be much more specific.

Another route you could look at, try match with tourists, this sounds stupid in theory but again you get to meet people who clearly wont want a long term relationship, show them around your city and you might find that casual fun you are looking for. Remember you are starting from quite a good base by the sounds of it so you are not a hopeless case at all, you need to just harness that base correctly and a lot of that is how you think and also about what not to think about. Also whatever you do, try be "fun" because trust me on this, not being fun makes whatever other good attributes you might have , irrelevant, especially in the age group you are looking at.

Arguably if you date older you can throw in more stability and slightly less fun but again beware complicated dynamics. 

[seamusharper]

13 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

For what reason? Women seem to find you attractive and show interest in you, so it doesn't really make sense to say that landing a woman is your "biggest setback." 

It's prior trauma from past family issues that really made me look for validation from women and taking a lot of what they say/do personally. It's also the fact that I've been out of practice with women for so long, I don't really have any sort of momentum with which to build off of.

12 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

While you may not be punching above your weight in term of looks, you definitely are in terms of options. As I’ve said a few times, the women you’re attracted to have tons of options when it comes to fun and casual. 

This is true, I get what you're saying. It's a small demographic of women being hounded over by a large quantity of men, some of them with a lot more status than I.

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

That's some pretty serious objectification you've got going on there.   Not a single thing about emotional connection or the type of lifestyle she has....it's just what she looks like.   Come to think of it, this whole thread is about what she looks like.

Looks aside, what's the personality type of the woman you'd like?  What things would you want to enjoy with her?  Especially the younger ones...why would they want to spend time with you?   I believe that if you were able to humanise women, you'd possibly get further.

Of the attractive women who you have received attention from in the past, what kind of "attention" are we talking about and did it progress further?

Are you lacking in confidence when you approach an average looking woman?  If you do have confidence with them, then the lack of confidence with more attractive women is because you're putting them on a pedestal. 

I think you're being a bit unfair. It's honestly very hard to deduce anything of substance off the apps so yes, I'm going off of looks predominantly. If that means I objectify women, they so be it. I'm not like that however, in "real" life and I'll give you an example below. Personality is very important to me. I could definitely see myself getting along with someone in their late 20s, especially if we share things in common. 

Throughout my 20s, women would give me attention in the form of flirting, touching, hinting at hooking up, some even were blunt and would suggest we go out. I would hear from other people "So and so thinks you're cute, you should go talk to her". I have LOTS of examples. I had to teach myself about women and dating and I did so slower and later than most people so I missed out on all the women that did give me attention which is part of the reason why I'm so f*$%#! frustrated. Back then, I had lots of opportunities but I was just oblivious with respect to how to take a hint and take initiative, eventually all those women realized that and moved on. Sometimes it would materialize into dates but like I said, I just didn't know how to lead with women and they would pick up on that at some point (early on or later) and it would be over. 

I'm lacking in confidence when I approach attractive women only, which, to your point, means I am definitely putting them on a pedestal which I know is WRONG. I do need to unwire that, maybe I just need to approach as many of them as possible until I don't care. I 

To prove I'm not some sort of dehumanizer and that my confidence issue is episodic. Last night at my improv class, there were a number of attractive women, all younger than me. I had a great time talking to all of them but one stood out to me the most. To be blunt, I did not find her face to be necessarily attractive, she certainly wasn't unattractive though, but not someone that would stand out to me in terms of "hotness". But her personality was amazing and she had a great physique (she's a personal trainer). She was really fun, silly, easy to talk to and we got to know each other as we walked to our cars after class. She was definitely in her 20s and I was going to ask for her number but our paths suddenly split and sadly it was over. I was going to go after her but this was in a really sketchy part of town with homeless people floating around so I thought that would have been creepy haha. Oh well, lesson learned, should have gone for it earlier. 

Point is, these apps are miserable because on both sides, people are being passed up because you only have so little information to go off of. On some level, you have to be superficial and objective because you've got a few lines of text and a handful of pictures as a reference point. And believe it or not, many women's profiles are generic. It's all gender pronouns, dog moms, and Taylor Swift. I'm also not swiping right on every attractive woman either so I don't it's fair to say I'm objectifying women.

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think there is a flip side to all of this, there are people who are doing very very well on OLD, think about it, if you are in the top % of superficial instant gratification would be very easy to find on OLD so clearly it does work and I cannot buy into the theory everyone on OLD has to lower their standards on OLD so OP do not do that.

In terms of age gaps, I think actually at 34 you can look at 23-29 as a viable age range, looking at 40+ makes no sense to me at all because your life phases will be very different. Added to which (at least where I find myself in the world) the trend is for the 23-29 age range to date up, in many respect for superficial reasons, in fact where I am from its not uncommon to find 29-34 ladies dating guys 45+, its just about meeting the requisite requirements, whatever they may be. My point, do not get to phased by age gaps.

Another tip with OLD, is you can sort of "teach" Tinder what you find attractive by absolutely not swiping right on people you do not find attractive, the worst thing you can do is swipe right on everyone, you wont get matches that way, boost your profile in the evenings too, this might help. Also try Bumble, this might work better for you because you can be much more specific.

Another route you could look at, try match with tourists, this sounds stupid in theory but again you get to meet people who clearly wont want a long term relationship, show them around your city and you might find that casual fun you are looking for. Remember you are starting from quite a good base by the sounds of it so you are not a hopeless case at all, you need to just harness that base correctly and a lot of that is how you think and also about what not to think about. Also whatever you do, try be "fun" because trust me on this, not being fun makes whatever other good attributes you might have , irrelevant, especially in the age group you are looking at.

Arguably if you date older you can throw in more stability and slightly less fun but again beware complicated dynamics. 

I hear you man, I really don't feel like I need to lower my standards and I don't think I need to adjust my age range either. Maybe the early 20s girls are out but certainly the women in their late 20s are still accessible.

I definitely do not swipe right on everyone. It's the opposite actually, I swipe left on most people. Tinder I tried briefly and got a few matches with younger women but they never replied back. I'll give the tourist option a try, that's actually a great idea. I'm on Bumble right now and got a few matches but none of these women want to talk. They match with me first and then I take the time to start a conversation and then none of them answer. 

I need to get back in the game and get to a social life where I'm coming in constant contact with new women also. 

[Alpacalia]

I just want to clarify that lowering standards doesn't imply ditching your preferences.

It's more about rejecting unrealistic expectations. I don't know the types of women that you're going after but if she's of the Cindy Crawford varietal looks-wise then based on experience, yeah that's definitely an unrealistic expectation for most men. Echoing the sentiments, not really sure what you deem 'attractive' as you haven't been explicit with that, but yeah it's critical to be realistic and at the very least, self-aware.

It sounds like a fundamental overhaul of attitude and how you are coming across may be more beneficial/corrective rather than trying to 20-80 a woman that may not inherently fit certain physical ideals that YOU set out. I don't think anyone should lower their standards on certain things like intelligence and values and emotional maturity, but attraction whilst you can't help what you feel will see and get attracted to, requires a degree of flexibility in it so to speak as surely someone with a great personality who has a physical feature that isn't your type that you will learn to love that physical feature in time but only if you are willing.

But if there are things you find physically attractive and you're just not finding yourself attracted to 90% of the women which find YOU attractive, then we have definitely got a bit of a self-esteem issue and your trying to find validation in OLD by trying to find someone that should tick all your boxes but it's backfiring because it sounds like you are frustrated.

Edited February 22, 2024 by Alpacalia

[seamusharper]

2 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I just want to clarify that lowering standards doesn't imply ditching your preferences.

It's more about rejecting unrealistic expectations. I don't know the types of women that you're going after but if she's of the Cindy Crawford varietal looks-wise then based on experience, yeah that's definitely an unrealistic expectation for most men. Echoing the sentiments, not really sure what you deem 'attractive' as you haven't been explicit with that, but yeah it's critical to be realistic and at the very least, self-aware.

It sounds like a fundamental overhaul of attitude and how you are coming across may be more beneficial/corrective rather than trying to 20-80 a woman that may not inherently fit certain physical ideals that YOU set out. I don't think anyone should lower their standards on certain things like intelligence and values and emotional maturity, but attraction whilst you can't help what you feel will see and get attracted to, requires a degree of flexibility in it so to speak as surely someone with a great personality who has a physical feature that isn't your type that you will learn to love that physical feature in time but only if you are willing.

But if there are things you find physically attractive and you're just not finding yourself attracted to 90% of the women which find YOU attractive, then we have definitely got a bit of a self-esteem issue and your trying to find validation in OLD by trying to find someone that should tick all your boxes but it's backfiring because it sounds like you are frustrated.

I'm absolutely NOT going after Cindy Crawford varietal looks. I don't even think Cindy Crawford is attractive haha.

I don't know how to describe what I think is an attractive face but in terms of body type, I am very passionate about health so that is the first think I look for in a woman. Is she fit? Does she take care of her body? I'm 5'9", 155lbs lean muscle. I like petite, fit women. By fit I don't mean buff, but a body that is well taken care of in terms of diet and a passion for working out. To be blunt, many women on the apps are huge. You all can say I'm a bad person for saying that but these are women in their 20s who weigh more than me and it only gets worse as the age range goes up. Why should go for those women? I don't care how great her personality is, if you can't cherish your health, I don't want you in my life romantically.

The example I gave above of the girl I spoke to last night shows you I'm not pursuing these out-of-reach women and that I can compromise a bit on some things and like a woman as a complete package but some things, like health and fitness, I refuse to compromise on.

I think your last sentence definitely describes what is going on. And honestly, I am finding some of these women attractive that do find me attractive on OLD, but they don't want to talk!

[Alpacalia]

5 minutes ago, seamusharper said:

I'm absolutely NOT going after Cindy Crawford varietal looks. I don't even think Cindy Crawford is attractive haha.

I don't know how to describe what I think is an attractive face but in terms of body type, I am very passionate about health so that is the first think I look for in a woman. Is she fit? Does she take care of her body? I'm 5'9", 155lbs lean muscle. I like petite, fit women. By fit I don't mean buff, but a body that is well taken care of in terms of diet and a passion for working out. To be blunt, many women on the apps are huge. You all can say I'm a bad person for saying that but these are women in their 20s who weigh more than me and it only gets worse as the age range goes up. Why should go for those women? I don't care how great her personality is, if you can't cherish your health, I don't want you in my life romantically.

The example I gave above of the girl I spoke to last night shows you I'm not pursuing these out-of-reach women and that I can compromise a bit on some things and like a woman as a complete package but some things, like health and fitness, I refuse to compromise on.

I think your last sentence definitely describes what is going on. And honestly, I am finding some of these women attractive that do find me attractive on OLD, but they don't want to talk!

Okay. I'm just trying to get a better sense of what you find attractive. From your description, it sounds like you value a healthy and fit lifestyle, and that is definitely something that is attractive to many people. I didn't realize that a lot of women on old are heavyset.

Okay, fast forward. You see someone on the app that looks healthy and fit and is engaged in some activity you are passionate about. For the sake of this conversation, lets say you both have swapped forced pleasantries and she can tell you have commonalities garbled out your love of healthy eating and hiking. 

What might you say if you wanted to continue the conversation?

[Wiseman2]

 It's unclear why you would want to sabotage your chances with  "the tourist option" . Frankly it doesn't matter what your type is. All that matters is getting help for the anxiety so you can comfortably talk to women.

It's unfortunate you seem to be jumping from gimmick to gimmick with no success, but then keep doing it over and over. That too could be anxiety. 

[seamusharper]

1 minute ago, Alpacalia said:

Okay. I'm just trying to get a better sense of what you find attractive. From your description, it sounds like you value a healthy and fit lifestyle, and that is definitely something that is attractive to many people. I didn't realize that a lot of women on old are heavyset.

Okay, fast forward. You see someone on the app that looks healthy and fit and is engaged in some activity you are passionate about. For the sake of this conversation, lets say you both have swapped forced pleasantries and she can tell you have commonalities garbled out your love of healthy eating and hiking. 

What might you say if you wanted to continue the conversation?

Many people online and in person are heavyset which is tragic.

Hmmmm. If we've got shared commonalities, I might enquire about them specifically. If we both ride horses, I'd ask her which equestrian sport she was in, her aspirations, etc. I'm always looking for stuff to make fun of so if something catches my eye that I can make a joke out of, I'll go for it. For example, one girl who liked my profile had one photo of half her face. Normally, I would just swipe left but I thought I'd just swipe right and match and just talk for the sake of practice. I told her that half her face looked beautiful but asked whether the other half was mangled and hideous. She laughed and actually sent me pictures of herself.

If we've got good rapport and we're actually engaging in a conversation, I try to get off the apps as soon as possible and I give her my number so we can continue the conversation via texting. I've always done this in the past and had no problems.

The issue is that I can't get a conversation going with most of these girls. The ones that actually like my profile and I find attractive, I start the conversation but most never even reply. And I'm not saying "Hey babe". I'm finding something unique about their profile and then asking them about it and relating to it. What's the point of these girls taking the time to like my profile but not willing to converse? Is it just attention? I'm having this happen with girls in their 20s and 30s.

[seamusharper]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

 It's unclear why you would want to sabotage your chances with  "the tourist option" . Frankly it doesn't matter what your type is. All that matters is getting help for the anxiety so you can comfortably talk to women.

It's unfortunate you seem to be jumping from gimmick to gimmick with no success, but then keep doing it over and over. That too could be anxiety. 

I am getting help but the reality is that I cant just sit idly either. I'm doing my best to get back to a normal social life and interacting with women while also getting help.

Edited February 22, 2024 by seamusharper

[Wiseman2]

It's no surprise you're being shut down and ignored if PUA "negs", creepy insults and making fun of women is your idea of "game" or flirting. 

"I told her that half her face looked beautiful but asked whether the other half was mangled and hideous'

Seriously!? What if a woman told you "I like your picture but you look sort of like an ape"? Turn you on? 

 It's seems you're not looking for advice. Just instant gratification by being impatient. 

Edited February 22, 2024 by Wiseman2

[Alpacalia]

5 minutes ago, seamusharper said:

I told her that half her face looked beautiful but asked whether the other half was mangled and hideous. She laughed and actually sent me pictures of herself.

 that's funny and would defo invite a reply. Uhmm well, they've taken the effort to like your profile, so they might be waiting for you to come up with a witty/riveting observation or story based on something on their profile. I would say just have fun with it. Don't be outcome dependent. Once you stop caring, you might notice that your success rate goes up.

[seamusharper]

1 minute ago, Alpacalia said:

 that's funny and would defo invite a reply. Uhmm well, they've taken the effort to like your profile, so they might be waiting for you to come up with a witty/riveting observation or story based on something on their profile. I would say just have fun with it. Don't be outcome dependent. Once you stop caring, you might notice that your success rate goes up.

You do make a great point. Online and in person, when I start wanting an outcome (a phone number, a laugh, etc) that's when I start trying too hard and I think they pick up on it and usually things go downhill.

I'm trying to work on not caring and I really think this is part of my issue in general. But I think the only way to get past this is just approach and talk to as many women as possible until I don't care, just make the goal to have fun.

[Weezy1973]

36 minutes ago, seamusharper said:

It's prior trauma from past family issues that really made me look for validation from women and taking a lot of what they say/do personally. 

This is excellent self-awareness. Men come on here a lot with very similar struggles as you, but few have this level of self awareness and instead blame women, dating culture, lament that their genetics etc. This is the core issue.

 

39 minutes ago, seamusharper said:

She was definitely in her 20s and I was going to ask for her number but our paths suddenly split and sadly it was over.

And because of that trauma and subsequent desire for validation from women, rejection from women you find attractive will reinforce that trauma so you will look for any reason not to face that rejection as per the above. Avoidance is a coping mechanism. And you’ve been avoiding taking that step with women your whole life: asking them on dates, getting their number, escalating the physical aspects, etc. Anything to avoid potential rejection. Also a common theme with the other men who have similar struggles. When asked how many women they’ve asked out in person in the last year, usually the answer is around zero. 
 

46 minutes ago, seamusharper said:

I need to get back in the game and get to a social life where I'm coming in constant contact with new women also. 

And while yes, this will help, where you’re stuck is actually facing that potential rejection. You’re trying to figure out a way to do it without the potential for rejection. And that’s just not possible. You’re going to have to face that rejection head on and learn that it won’t kill you. It isn’t a reflection of your worthiness as a human being. It just means you’re not someone’s type. Which isn’t a big deal at all. 

[Alpacalia]

Yes, I don't pretend to understand the difficulties that men face in being rejected by women. I'm sure that it can feel undermining to your confidence or that you've completely misread everything and don't know what to believe.

Similarly, I think the rampant culture of rejection through SWIPE culture is awful as no one gets the sense of excitement and the more intricate dynamics that go into meeting people. It makes it so hard to understand what people want or have to offer and find what really turns us on, because we don't have to TRY hard for anything. We assume wow, I'm super liked, someone really did something meaningful to say "hey" to me.

Then, you look at your phone and like a picture of a puppy. Five minutes later, you get a "Hey, wyd?" And what does that really mean? It's hard to explain, but rejection through a screen doesn't feel like real rejection. It's almost expected and easily brushed off. But when you ask someone out or express your feelings in person, you are putting yourself in a vulnerable position.

And when that vulnerability is met with rejection, it can be harmful to your self-esteem and self-worth. It's easier to just avoid potential rejection altogether. But the reality is that avoiding rejection won't make it go away. It will still be there in the back of your mind, affecting your confidence and your relationship with women. And as tough as it may be, the only way to overcome it is to face it head on. Start small. Maybe try asking someone out on a casual date, like grabbing coffee or drinks. And if they say no, remind yourself that it's not a reflection of your worth as a person.

People have their own preferences and interests, and not everyone will be compatible with you. That's just a fact of life. It's more to do with them than you. They are the ones missing out on getting to know an amazing person like you. So don’t take it personally and don’t let it hold you back from putting yourself out there. Every time you take that step, you are building up your resilience and confidence. And every rejection will get easier and easier to handle.

[seamusharper]

@Weezy1973 @Alpacalia Very well said, thank you both. 

I take full responsibility for my life. I don't blame my family, other people, certainly not women.

I got rejected throughout my 20s from dozens of women, sometimes in very hurtful ways, but I kept at it and learned to deal with it eventually. But now, I've been unplugged socially for so long, I'm now realizing that I just have to get back out there are risk going through the gauntlet of rejection all over again. It sucks but I guess the difference is that I'm older, wiser, and have the perspective that you both are eluding to with respect to not having it mean anything about me.

[mark clemson]

Part of the problem here may be that "petite, fit" women who are reasonably attractive probably get plenty of attention in "real life" and may not even need to turn to dating apps. Furthermore, from everything I have read and heard, when they do use dating apps they are inundated with male interest.  So, you may simply be getting "lost in the noise".

I'm not sure there IS a good solution to that issue, unfortunately other than to keep plugging away and wait for the stars to align favorably as they say, OR to use alternatives to dating apps.

I would suggest putting in effort to make yourself as attractive as possible in person (and in photos too if you're going to stick with the dating apps). TBQH women too can be quite "superficial" and respond to the visual cues they are biologically attuned to, just as men do, it's just that their cues are somewhat different. People in general are visual creatures. Very attractive men generally have little trouble in finding women to date, as the women come to them in what you might call a steady trickle, some become "players" etc...

That is easier said than done, but IF you can pull it off it will make finding a partner much easier. To that end, you might take a look at the book "A Billion Wicked Thoughts" - specifically the chapters on female attraction - to try to determine some possible improvements.

Edited February 22, 2024 by mark clemson

[SurfCity]

1 hour ago, seamusharper said:

She was definitely in her 20s and I was going to ask for her number but our paths suddenly split and sadly it was over. I was going to go after her but this was in a really sketchy part of town with homeless people floating around so I thought that would have been creepy haha. Oh well, lesson learned, should have gone for it earlier. 

Does it occur to you that it would've been gentlemanly for you to offer to walk her to her car? Even if you weren't romantically interested in her that that would've been something nice to offer? Or does leaving her to walk to her car alone at night in a sketchy party of town with homeless people around seem like a good plan to you? If she says no, that's fine, but it seems self absorbed to not even offer. 

I think that you need to understand that "going after someone" is a really bad idea 90% of the time. Even if you had been in Beverly Hills, it's not something that you should do. The woman at the barn didn't appreciate you waiting around and it's hard to think of any scenario where that's a good idea. 

This woman will most likely be going to the next improv class, so get your anxiety under control and make a plan to talk to her again. After you speak to her a few times after a few classes ask her for her number and from there ask her on a date. 

[seamusharper]

28 minutes ago, SurfCity said:

Does it occur to you that it would've been gentlemanly for you to offer to walk her to her car? Even if you weren't romantically interested in her that that would've been something nice to offer? Or does leaving her to walk to her car alone at night in a sketchy party of town with homeless people around seem like a good plan to you? If she says no, that's fine, but it seems self absorbed to not even offer. 

I think that you need to understand that "going after someone" is a really bad idea 90% of the time. Even if you had been in Beverly Hills, it's not something that you should do. The woman at the barn didn't appreciate you waiting around and it's hard to think of any scenario where that's a good idea. 

This woman will most likely be going to the next improv class, so get your anxiety under control and make a plan to talk to her again. After you speak to her a few times after a few classes ask her for her number and from there ask her on a date. 

That is an excellent point. What you're saying is another area I need to work on which is overall situational awareness. That would have been a great gesture to just offer that, irrespective of whether or not I was interested in her. Same goes with me sticking around at the barn. I guess this is just stuff you get better at picking up on the more you do it and it's usually hard to pick up on it in the moment if I'm nervous or too worried about the outcome.

When I meant go after her, I didn't mean run after her, rather just turn around and ask for her number before she was too far off.

Unfortunately, that was a single class so I don't think I'll ever see her again which was all the more reason to have asked for her number. I signed up for the next level or courses so maybe she'll be there, but who knows. It was a missed opportunity for sure and you've given me a lot to think about.

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

Part of the problem here may be that "petite, fit" women who are reasonably attractive probably get plenty of attention in "real life" and may not even need to turn to dating apps. Furthermore, from everything I have read and heard, when they do use dating apps they are inundated with male interest.  So, you may simply be getting "lost in the noise".

I'm not sure there IS a good solution to that issue, unfortunately other than to keep plugging away and wait for the stars to align favorably as they say, OR to use alternatives to dating apps.

I would suggest putting in effort to make yourself as attractive as possible in person (and in photos too if you're going to stick with the dating apps). TBQH women too can be quite "superficial" and respond to the visual cues they are biologically attuned to, just as men do, it's just that their cues are somewhat different. People in general are visual creatures. Very attractive men generally have little trouble in finding women to date, as the women come to them in what you might call a steady trickle, some become "players" etc...

That is easier said than done, but IF you can pull it off it will make finding a partner much easier. To that end, you might take a look at the book "A Billion Wicked Thoughts" - specifically the chapters on female attraction - to try to determine some possible improvements.

I take impeccable care of myself. I spend hundreds of hours working out every year, I'm an avid swimmer, and I ride horses competitively so I train on horseback several times a week. I spend thousands on blood work, chiro, and massage therapists every year. I'm usually in a suit, I love men's fashion, clothing, fabrics, and I take care of my skin, grooming, etc.

I really do think that apps are a waste of time in the sense that you have to put a substantial amount of time in with a very small success rate whereas, in real life, just the act of approaching and even getting rejected produces a success because you learn and get better at the next interaction.

Edited February 22, 2024 by seamusharper

[ZA Dater]

[] My advice is to find yourself small wins that give you a sense of success which you can use to counteract any rejection you may face. In terms of online dating it could be something simple like matching with someone you find attractive.

You have to keep your self belief up because rejection kills that over time. Find a good friend first is my advice.

Edited February 22, 2024 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
argumentative

[SurfCity]

1 hour ago, seamusharper said:

I guess this is just stuff you get better at picking up on the more you do it and it's usually hard to pick up on it in the moment if I'm nervous or too worried about the outcome.

Yes, that's why this advice that these podcast bros give out to confused young guys is so harmful. They all say the same thing. Spend your 20's focused on building your career and gaining wealth, then when you're in your 30's dating will be easy peasy and you'll easily get a girl 10-15 yrs younger than you to settle down with. Sounds good in theory, but that's not the reality that most men encounter in their 30's.

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, seamusharper said:

I take impeccable care of myself. I spend hundreds of hours working out every year, I'm an avid swimmer, and I ride horses competitively so I train on horseback several times a week. I spend thousands on blood work, chiro, and massage therapists every year. I'm usually in a suit, I love men's fashion, clothing, fabrics, and I take care of my skin, grooming, etc.

Can this be found on your profile? It's impressive albeit irl it's a bit intimidating.

Edited February 22, 2024 by Alpacalia

[basil67]

2 hours ago, seamusharper said:

I take impeccable care of myself. I spend hundreds of hours working out every year, I'm an avid swimmer, and I ride horses competitively so I train on horseback several times a week.  I spend thousands on blood work, chiro, and massage therapists every year

Between this and work, where would you find time to spend a decent amount of time with a woman?   Serious question.  

2 hours ago, seamusharper said:

I'm usually in a suit, I love men's fashion, clothing, fabrics, and I take care of my skin, grooming, etc.

Can you also do low key, regular guy when the situation calls for it?  I assume you're not in suits when it's the weekend.   

[seamusharper]

49 minutes ago, SurfCity said:

Yes, that's why this advice that these podcast bros give out to confused young guys is so harmful. They all say the same thing. Spend your 20's focused on building your career and gaining wealth, then when you're in your 30's dating will be easy peasy and you'll easily get a girl 10-15 yrs younger than you to settle down with. Sounds good in theory, but that's not the reality that most men encounter in their 30's.

You are correct about this and sadly I made this mistake and am now suffering for it in this department (clearly). I appreciate your honesty on the matter though, you picked up on my issues very precisely. 

21 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Can this be found on your profile? It's impressive albeit irl it's a bit intimidating.

I have no shirtless pictures of myself and only one picture of me in a suit. The rest are pictures of me on horseback, flying planes, snowboarding, etc.

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Between this and work, where would you find time to spend a decent amount of time with a woman?   Serious question.  

Can you also do low key, regular guy when the situation calls for it?  I assume you're not in suits when it's the weekend.   

My Friday - Sunday nights are open. I'd love to take a woman out on trail rides, or drive up to a place to go snowboarding, etc. I can make time, even if it's just an evening.

I can definitely do low key, regular guy. I wasn't in a suit at improv last night, for example.