Author ZA Dater Posted May 26, 2021 Author Posted May 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, SumGuy said: Sharing things with someone is intimacy. Intimacy comes in non-sexual and non-romantic varieties as well. Sex is the icing on the cake for me, and I do love it don't get me wrong (and apparently spend inordinate amounts of time engaged in it ) but it would mean little to me without the connection of sharing a meal, sunsets, views on a book, song or movie. The connection of sharing matters, you don't need sex to make it valuable. I'd be lying though if said sharing it with a romantic partner wasn't the best. It probably is FAR nicer but I also have to be realistic in terms of what is possible for me, I'd like to believe I could have it all but realistically that seems unlikely, I run on logic and logic generally says and supported by Elaine that its very hard to overcome inexperience and awkwardness, not impossible but very, very hard. Ultimately dating is a competition, the better you are at it the better the outcomes will be. I'll try improve what I can but I also need to concede I cannot control the process, I am at the mercy of others and I need to recognise the fact it might never happen for me. Part of me is tempted to go on a date and just say "look I have no idea how to date, I have no experience, if that is a deal breaker for you I understand".
SumGuy Posted May 26, 2021 Posted May 26, 2021 Just now, ZA Dater said: ....Part of me is tempted to go on a date and just say "look I have no idea how to date, I have no experience, if that is a deal breaker for you I understand". Why not? It is honest. If you follow up with yet you are willing to learn and can be there for people. After all, what you have done to date has not worked out so great. (Pun intended)
Happy Lemming Posted May 26, 2021 Posted May 26, 2021 1 hour ago, ZA Dater said: I'd probably find it quite disturbing she looked at me doing yard work to begin with and actually had some incident like this before and I found the whole interaction quite creepy. That part of the scenario was not meant to be taken as creepy, just a way that this hypothetical woman may know you by sight, but never had met you in person. Substitute any way someone may see you in a public circumstance without having formally been introduced. 1 hour ago, ZA Dater said: I will answer your question quite honestly even though I will get crucified for the answer . I probably would not ask her for her number UNLESS there was something really captivating about her personality in some way or other. Fair enough... and I appreciate your honesty. I'm not going to "crucify" you for your answer. You are.. who you are. Although given the fact that you seem quite average in your description of yourself, but would reject a similar female version of you is informative. With that said, I really don't hold out much hope for you to find what you are looking for. And I doubt any one here on Loveshack can give you advice to make that happen. Unless you have a "boat load" of money and are willing to part with it, people date within their league. 3
basil67 Posted May 26, 2021 Posted May 26, 2021 8 hours ago, ZA Dater said: Sure, a lot of these models I have met do get used but to be fair they allow this to happen. Why do you think they get used?
Author ZA Dater Posted May 26, 2021 Author Posted May 26, 2021 32 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said: Unless you have a "boat load" of money and are willing to part with it, people date within their league. It seems leagues either exist or not, some say not, others say yes. Given the choice I'd rather have amazing acquaintances than someone who brings no wow to my life. I can sort of live with those implications, if I have to. Will just miss out on lots but if I have to pay that price then so be it. I firmly believe people need to chase what they want and what you describe is not what I want. It's quite easy for all of us to be exceptional in some unique way. Someone who does not aspire to that holds no interest for me irrespective what they look like. Thanks for all your advice. 1
basil67 Posted May 26, 2021 Posted May 26, 2021 @ZA Dater We're all unique, but very few of us are exceptional. How are you exceptional?
Author ZA Dater Posted May 27, 2021 Author Posted May 27, 2021 12 hours ago, basil67 said: @ZA Dater We're all unique, but very few of us are exceptional. How are you exceptional? I'd argue everyone is exceptional in some way because we are all unique and should embrace that more often. Dating is really to me about meeting someone who speaks to you on an emotional level and for all of us this is different and how we define it is different. Me, well I am actually quite smart despite appearances here, I am quite well spoken, quite worldly, far more so than many people I meet. I have had some great experiences, been to some nice place, go to some nice places, my hobbies and view toward life is different. Not exceptional on their own but I can stand toe to toe with some heavy weights when it comes to debating and taking a stand on issues, I am forthright and outspoken about what I believe in and the first to back the underdog.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 27, 2021 Author Posted May 27, 2021 12 hours ago, basil67 said: Why do you think they get used? Sadly they buy in excessively to Mr. Charm and Mr. Money and Mr "you are an object to me". I see this a lot, every model I have met I remember more for her personality than her look, yes they are beautiful but many of them have inner beauty and yes many of them also carry around baggage but I can understand that baggage and why. Sadly its only human that we all like attention and I myself have been used because I like some attention. My observation is many men rarely appreciate what they have.
Weezy1973 Posted May 27, 2021 Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, ZA Dater said: It's quite easy for all of us to be exceptional in some unique way. Someone who does not aspire to that holds no interest for me irrespective what they look like. How you describe yourself is not exceptional. Are you aspiring to be exceptional in anything? Edited May 27, 2021 by Weezy1973 1
Weezy1973 Posted May 27, 2021 Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, ZA Dater said: I'd argue everyone is exceptional in some way because we are all unique and should embrace that more often. So if everyone is exceptional doesn’t that mean everyone checks this box for you?
Author ZA Dater Posted May 27, 2021 Author Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said: How you describe yourself is not exceptional. Are you aspiring to be exceptional in anything? All subjective.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 27, 2021 Author Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said: So if everyone is exceptional doesn’t that mean everyone checks this box for you? Yes but they lack the other things I find attractive, I can take people on their own merits, does not mean I feel anything for them or want to spend time with them. I have another two potential coffee dates two different people with the same name. Not overly excited to be honest, working on something non dating related which is far more interesting.
BeanCounter Posted May 27, 2021 Posted May 27, 2021 On 5/9/2021 at 8:52 PM, Blind-Sided said: Walk away. It was a date... she didn't find you to her liking. I have several female friends... and NONE of them started with a date. (Expectations of something more) I would say it's really hard or even impossible to do. A female friend starts as a co-worker, class mate, or friend-of-a-friend. (With the expectations of being a friend from the start) I actually met one of my better female friends from a dating site. Neither were interested in the other, but we enjoyed each other's company and friendship. I'll admit, it's certainly the exception, and I think it requires both people feeling like that, and not 1 feeling like that and the other hoping "some day"...
Weezy1973 Posted May 27, 2021 Posted May 27, 2021 4 hours ago, ZA Dater said: All subjective. OK. But it sounds like if it’s subjective then everybody is exceptional in their own way, which you pointed out. And you’re no more or less exceptional than anybody else. So again it turns out it’s just more about compatibility than anything. Not attractiveness. Not being exceptional. Just basic compatibility.
normal person Posted May 27, 2021 Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, ZA Dater said: Sadly they buy in excessively to Mr. Charm and Mr. Money and Mr "you are an object to me". I see this a lot, every model I have met I remember more for her personality than her look, yes they are beautiful but many of them have inner beauty and yes many of them also carry around baggage but I can understand that baggage and why. Sadly its only human that we all like attention and I myself have been used because I like some attention. Just out of curiosity, how often do you find inner beauty in women who aren't models, and/or seemingly far out of your league? Seems a bit coincidental, don't you think? It's odd to me that you want to grandstand about how you see the inner beauty of models while every other guy objectifies them, yet it's not often I hear you appreciate or see potential in someone else's inner beauty if they don't happen to be -- get this -- outwardly beautiful. Edited May 27, 2021 by normal person 2
Author ZA Dater Posted May 27, 2021 Author Posted May 27, 2021 27 minutes ago, normal person said: Just out of curiosity, how often do you find inner beauty in women who aren't models, and/or seemingly far out of your league? Seems a bit coincidental, don't you think? It's odd to me that you want to grandstand about how you see the inner beauty of models while every other guy objectifies them, yet it's not often I hear you appreciate or see potential in someone else's inner beauty if they don't happen to be -- get this -- outwardly beautiful. People wont like my view on this but in truth pretty seldom and I will qualify that by saying everyone has issues and some more than other, I just find that people who have lived an interesting life have a more world view are less trapped by their issues. If anyone of you met in me person you would have no idea how I struggle at dating, those issues are not ones which consume me. I have gone out with ladies who really sometimes through no fault of their own have been given a raw deal and lets face it someone who is great looking will get attention whereas someone who is not will get less attention. Genuinely I have fault a great deal of empathy with a lot of the people I have gone out with. I'll also be honest physical beauty does matter to me quite a lot, I think it does to most guys, some are more forthright than others. One of these potential coffee dates is potentially off the list now, she attends bible study, instant deal killer for me, been here and have the t shirt, wont be going there again. The other is a social worker, again I am weary, in a country like this that is one of the hardest jobs ever, work baggage because you see the very worst. For me its very easy to dismiss because I am simply not desperate to date. If things do not line up how I want them to, then there is little point to everything. K I really liked because things do line up, A I really liked because she brought something amazing to my life but each of these people captivated me for different reasons. I might meet these two potential dates but I go with no real strategy or expectation. As to the initial question to expand, I get treated like trash by most ladies so my view is to take the moral high ground and simply just believe all are good but some are better than others and sure models and good looking people will never be what I can get but is that not the point, chase what you really want and go after the toughest challenges? I know I am a decent guy so I do not feel bad about liking what I do and finding attractive what I do, the fact I cant cash those cheques is just a fact of life, life for me is about pushing and challenging and settling does not ever fit into that idea, like with A , I know that is the absolute best I will ever get so I can sleep alone fairly content with that, its when I go out and try find that again when things start falling apart. I am not content being alone, having none of the experiences other have had and I do feel sad about missing out on huge chunks of life but arguably having few friends I missed out more chunks, a future alone is a scary prospect but maybe I need to just live for today? Then again I look at the contrived experiences I have created, would they have been the same with someone I settled with, very unlikely because I really connected with those people because they had so many of the attributes I find really attractive. I once had someone want to go on holiday with me and basically sleep with me, I turned it down because I just felt nothing, I went on two dates, chatted for months and there was just nothing so maybe for me the seemingly unattainable is an attraction all of its own. All of this goes back to the core of what I do every day.....attempting the seemingly impossible. Except with dating I cannot play the game so I can aspire to but can actually never get on the field so I spend more time watching the game than attempting to play it. The only thing that keeps me looking is a want to experience with people I find attractive, that is the objective so when I got match after match with people I found attractive it was extremely demotivating because was I ever getting closer to what I want to experience, no I was not. Contrive a lunch with K, that is awesome, contrive a day away (separate rooms) and that is awesome, she knew what I was doing, there is no doubt but I was always respectful, accepted she was not into me and it was good to share those times with a friend I find attractive and on some level I get to improve me. Living with A and baby for a while made me appreciate warmth and genuine caring more than I thought possible and I miss them both every single day. Those experiences are the ones closer to what I really want. So yes when I go meet whoever for coffee those attributes are seldom there, its an interview , nothing more really, one where I know either I am not interested or as happened here she is not interested. Weezy is right I would do better with the settle down type but most of them have 2 or three kids already, really not in shape, are looking for financial support, have ex's who interfere and that scenario is not attractive to me at all.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 27, 2021 Author Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said: OK. But it sounds like if it’s subjective then everybody is exceptional in their own way, which you pointed out. And you’re no more or less exceptional than anybody else. So again it turns out it’s just more about compatibility than anything. Not attractiveness. Not being exceptional. Just basic compatibility. Compatibility is key for me, I started looking for this VERY early on in dating, its by far one of the most important thing for me. I need to feel that I am compatible with that person, rather than them with me, there is big difference there. I can raise my game if I see this is the case but if it is not , well the fundamentals are all wrong which is why I really liked A because while she had a baby the fundamentals work. Sadly I cant compete with looks and money but I understand that.
dramafreezone Posted May 27, 2021 Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) On 5/26/2021 at 2:33 PM, Happy Lemming said: That part of the scenario was not meant to be taken as creepy, just a way that this hypothetical woman may know you by sight, but never had met you in person. Substitute any way someone may see you in a public circumstance without having formally been introduced. Fair enough... and I appreciate your honesty. I'm not going to "crucify" you for your answer. You are.. who you are. Although given the fact that you seem quite average in your description of yourself, but would reject a similar female version of you is informative. With that said, I really don't hold out much hope for you to find what you are looking for. And I doubt any one here on Loveshack can give you advice to make that happen. Unless you have a "boat load" of money and are willing to part with it, people date within their league. I don't think you have to spend a lot of money on women to date one that's highly attractive. Having money doesn't hurt, but it's more of what accumulating a lot of money represents. Most times you had to be ambitious, passionate about something, have a talent for something, which are also very attractive qualities. Are there gold diggers? Sure but they're easy to spot and actually they want to be spotted so that they don't waste their time. Just goes back to what I was telling OP, if he lacks in looks you have to make it up somewhere else. The less status, ambition, talent, passion you have the more looks matter. But OP resents the idea that he has to be better anywhere to get what he wants. Raise desirability or decrease standards. Edited May 27, 2021 by dramafreezone
Happy Lemming Posted May 28, 2021 Posted May 28, 2021 @ZA Dater Quick Question... How many women have you had sex with??
Sun Seeker Posted May 28, 2021 Posted May 28, 2021 6 hours ago, Happy Lemming said: @ZA Dater Quick Question... How many women have you had sex with?? He's posted a number of times he is a virgin so the answer is a big fat zero. Then you have people like us, who have never been short of female attention, too many sexual experiences to remember, try to give him advice, but he continues to ignore it all and still thinks he knows best... and expects a different result. #1 problem is his attitude but he still doesn't get it. The phrase 'beggars can't be choosers' also fits perfectly here. 1
elaine567 Posted May 28, 2021 Posted May 28, 2021 We can keep discussing all the ins and outs of women. What women want, what women don't want, who women are attracted to, who women are not attracted to. The problem here is however NOT with women. The problem here is ZA Dater and his inability to signal romantic interest. He can't flirt to begin with, he doesn't/won't touch women in a "romantic" way, he has never had a proper kiss (he tried once and is "never" doing it again). He adopts the platonic friend role as he is incapable of doing anything else... He distracts attention away from this with long monologues/dialogues about "dating". But he is not actually "dating", he is merely "hanging out" with women he meets on OLD and IRL. People compute that " lack of experience" means he can't satisfy a woman, or he is somehow lacking in the sexual department. They don't really realise that "lack of experience" means he is totally incapable of taking "friendship" into the "romantic"/physical realm. A) he doesn't know how to B) he is scared to even try. 2
Weezy1973 Posted May 28, 2021 Posted May 28, 2021 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: They don't really realise that "lack of experience" means he is totally incapable of taking "friendship" into the "romantic"/physical realm. A) he doesn't know how to B) he is scared to even try. Yup and therein lies the problem. Because of his fear, he’s hoping for a “sure thing” but the only sure things he gets are women he’s not interested in, which is normal. The women swiping right on him on Tinder are shooting out of their league hoping to get lucky and so in his mind those are his only options. But of course like most of us average folks, there are also people that look at us as “maybe” and will go on a date to see if anything develops and this is where he fails. Women he’s potentially attracted to, like this recent coffee date, he has no chance with because he wont escalate because it’s not a “sure thing”. 1
Author ZA Dater Posted May 28, 2021 Author Posted May 28, 2021 10 hours ago, Happy Lemming said: @ZA Dater Quick Question... How many women have you had sex with?? None.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 28, 2021 Author Posted May 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Punterxx said: He's posted a number of times he is a virgin so the answer is a big fat zero. Then you have people like us, who have never been short of female attention, too many sexual experiences to remember, try to give him advice, but he continues to ignore it all and still thinks he knows best... and expects a different result. #1 problem is his attitude but he still doesn't get it. The phrase 'beggars can't be choosers' also fits perfectly here. I know what I want, its really that simple. How to get it is less simple and probably impossible but again that is part of the attraction.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 28, 2021 Author Posted May 28, 2021 4 hours ago, enigma32 said: I've been gone for a while, I come back, and poor Za Dater still doin his thing. Gonna drop some truths on ya buddy, so buckle up. The truth is, there are definitely leagues. It's a thing. Occasionally, because of luck or some other blessing, someone can bat outside their league but that is the exception, not the norm. The reason you aren't finding any success is because every single last one of the women you are trying to get with is just plain out of your league. I had more relationship experience than you when I was 15 years old. What do you think some attractive adult female with life exerience is going to think of you when she hears you have never had a GF? How old are you, man? Have you even hooked up with someone before? Basically, you are an adult male, trying to date actual models who likely have worlds of experience and you are waving so many red flags in their face with your lack of experience and lack of ability or even desire to close the deal with anyone. You have to compete with the kind of guys these ladies are used to dating and as you are, you simply cannot compete. It's a harsh reality but it's reality. The weird thing is, this ia a reality that every other red blooded male in the world has been able to happily accept. We make the most of it. Sure, every dude would love to hook up with super hot models every day, but most of us can't and we are happy with our pretty, girl next door types. What you need to do is, do yourself a favor and try to figure out what fuels this obsession of yours. Why are you here arguing with people about your dating experiences? You keep going round and round but you've been given the simple answer many times and you won't accept it. So, why? Why are you so obsessed with trying to date women that won't give you the time of day? Why are so obsessed with it that you feel compelled to log online here and argue with people about it? Do you seriously think models are the ladies with depth? I'm not asking you why because I want to know the answer. I don't care. I think you need to figure these things out for yourself. I've known plenty of ugly, messed up people that found a relationship, so why can't you? Sure, they found a relationship but nobody can answer or probably wont admit, how many of them are REALLY happy with settling? I do not think being slim and athletic is a particularly high bar looks wise, ok a pretty face might be pushing my luck. I simply accept nothing and I can compete against anyone, people are people and I refuse to confine my thinking as to who I can compete with and who I cannot compete with. For the same reason leagues are a load of nonsense in my opinion. If I believed this I'd be doing some pathetic job because throughout my life people told me I could not, I stopped believing that nonsense. Me, I'd be happy with one great experience I can really remember than many which do nothing for me, the entire way go about dating is geared toward that and nobody understands this. This coffee date was actually nice but the outcome was predictable. There are people I would sleep with, more because the combination of physical looks and mental stimulation, I need both to find them attractive.
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