Are more women content on remaining unattached?

[Happy Lemming]

1 minute ago, Ruby Slippers said:

He's close to what I imagine is the ideal man - strong, hard-working, no-nonsense, also generous, sensitive, and loving.

Needle in a Haystack!

[SumGuy]

1 minute ago, Ruby Slippers said:

..He's close to what I imagine is the ideal man - strong, hard-working, no-nonsense, also generous, sensitive, and loving.

Agree although it seems there are those who would say him being "generous, sensitive and loving" take him out of the running for being a "real alpha man" that women want.  

[Tamfana]

49 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

It's an entitlement mentality, and in my experience often supported in the man's head by a "traditional gender roles" view of life.   

Also in my experience what most men fail to grasp that traditional gender roles for men (especially the definition of such roles as women who hold such views seem to believe) are much more than acting macho, its about self-discipline and self-control and also a lot of emotional support for your woman, you are her rock and never make her feel less than.  There is no excuse at all for cheating or wandering eye in what I was taught were traditional gender roles.

So cleaning doesn't come natural to you?  Man up get some self discipline and control and don't make a mess, get off the couch and do that yard work.  That to me is what I learnt traditional meant (at least to those who grew up in the 1930s and 40s or grew up on the farm)...it is not the same thing as what seems to be bandied about these days by men.  Of course it is not new that people want for themselves all the power with no responsibility, but when it comes to others they need to accept having less or no power yet still need to be responsible. 

I've relatives in traditional gender role relationships, farmers/ranchers mostly so plenty of work to go around for everyone, and let me tell you it ain't no easy ride for the man...and frankly no matter what words they say, and how much they are the man of the house, the women run the show.  It seems to work and is a partnership unless one of them takes to drinking...not that uncommon actually.

Yeah, this is my experience too. However, my dad married a city girl who probably still doesn't know how to use a shovel. Seriously.  And of course, back then, widows often didn't remarry so there were a lot of single women in the 50's and 60's too. Women always worked- the garden, canned and pickled, raised livestock, milking, mucking, etc. In the 50's the US govt had an ad campaign to encourage women to quit their jobs for the GI's coming home and much of the imagery of "traditional roles" comes from that campaign.  

[SumGuy]

1 minute ago, Happy Lemming said:

Needle in a Haystack!

I'd say stop looking in haystacks or use a magnet.   I know plenty of men like this...granted they are all taken at my age.

[Ruby Slippers]

2 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Agree although it seems there are those who would say him being "generous, sensitive and loving" take him out of the running for being a "real alpha man" that women want.  

I disagree. The ideal is the "loving dominant." He and I discussed this from the very beginning, even read material about it together. 

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only woman out there who'd love to be with a strong, capable, competent man who understands and values the woman's part. I've seen examples of it. But you're right - they all seem to be locked down tight. I'm happy for those women like my neighbor. I'm happy to know those men exist.

[Woggle]

I think it might serve you well to move on from this idea of being dominated and look at being strong together. The best relationships seem to be about that rather  then one person taking charge.

[FMW]

4 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I'm happy for those women like my neighbor.

But always keep in mind that you only see what other people let you see - he may have other qualities that you don't see that you would find intolerable (although his wife may be just fine with).  

I don't mean to be argumentative  I just don't want you to be too idealistic.  But given everything you've posted about your most recent relationship I think you definitely made the right decision, and I hope it sticks this time.  

[Ruby Slippers]

2 minutes ago, FMW said:

But always keep in mind that you only see what other people let you see - he may have other qualities that you don't see that you would find intolerable (although his wife may be just fine with).  

I don't mean to be argumentative  I just don't want you to be too idealistic.  But given everything you've posted about your most recent relationship I think you definitely made the right decision, and I hope it sticks this time.  

This is a good point. I do hear her hollering at him in the yard pretty often (nagging). From where I'm sitting, I wonder what she has to complain about. But of course, I don't really know what goes on inside the house and elsewhere.

[Ellener]

2 hours ago, Piddy said:

Don't iron

I've never ironed in my life, if clothes look like they'll be high maintenance I don't buy them! 👗

[Happy Lemming]

2 minutes ago, Ellener said:

I've never ironed in my life, if clothes look like they'll be high maintenance I don't buy them! 👗

When I worked, I used to iron my dress shirts, but then a dry cleaners opened up and if you brought in (at least) 5 shirts, they would wash and iron them for $1/shirt.

From that day forward, my iron was relegated to the back of my closet... never to see the light of day again.

[Piddy]

11 minutes ago, Ellener said:

I've never ironed in my life, if clothes look like they'll be high maintenance I don't buy them! 👗

Haha  Yeah, she likes to iron.  Some kind of therapy I guess. lol   My wife can't sit still.  Always has to be doing something.  She irons in the bedroom and can watch TV and look out at the pool.  To each their own. 

[SumGuy]

36 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I disagree. The ideal is the "loving dominant." He and I discussed this from the very beginning, even read material about it together. 

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only woman out there who'd love to be with a strong, capable, competent man who understands and values the woman's part. I've seen examples of it. But you're right - they all seem to be locked down tight. I'm happy for those women like my neighbor. I'm happy to know those men exist.

I don't disagree that that is how women see it.  It is from the manosphere and other communities that say they are incompatible.

[Ruby Slippers]

58 minutes ago, Woggle said:

I think it might serve you well to move on from this idea of being dominated and look at being strong together. The best relationships seem to be about that rather  then one person taking charge.

I agree. It was never about "being dominated." But I do have a history of relationships with "leader of the pack"-type guys, who naturally have dominant tendencies.

I'm not interested in dating anytime soon, but I did update my "list" to include things like kindness, thoughtfulness, strong ethical code, gentleman. This would have ruled him out from early on.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, SumGuy said:

the manosphere

I want to go in the manosphere...

 

[SumGuy]

36 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

 It was never about "being dominated."

That is good to know as "loving dominant" sounded like a BDSM term...not that I'd have a problem with that.

[Ellener]

Stay on thread topic @SumGuy!

I got in a load of hot water once when I said to a bunch of social workers that spanking is a sexual activity and highly inappropriate with children...

#conversationstoavoid...!

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

He will be a disappointment to someone who prioritizes those things. But you can’t change someone into something they’re not. If he genuinely doesn’t care about that stuff, he doesn’t care. He’s happier doing other things.

There are men who see things in a more egalitarian way, but I suspect these men might not be as “manly” as some women prefer. If one prefers a traditionally masculine man, that’s what they’re going to get. 

Again: I chose my husbands based on how well we clicked on all levels, including their attitudes toward basic equality. Both were ADAMANT that they didn't/don't want to be like their fathers in a number of ways, including the one we discussed. Then marriage and...oops! It just wasn't fun to do the scutwork, I suppose. 

"He doesn't care"...somebody better care about the kids being clean and fed and the house being basically clean. Since somebody better...somebody does. After a million dumb fights about it that someone just gives up, feels resentful and tricked and does it. For a while. For the record, I'd be happier doing other things, too.

It's amazing how you're managing to make this just a preference or something. Living without bugs becuase nobody does squat in the house, and raising children who are clean, fed, and happy aren't preferences. Until you've been on this side of it, you have no idea how demoralizing and exhausting years and years of being the maid can be. And yes, this is my generation doing this - 45+ in age. The 80s kids who were NEVER going to fall into that stupid 50s trap our out-of-touch parents had lived in. Because it was demeaning. Yep.

[CaliforniaGirl]

6 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

Her other source of money was her father.  Her freelance work is pretty much a once a year project that barely paid anything. Had it been the otherway around gender-wise...the guy would be labeled a loser.

Again...not 100% sure that this rare situation is applicable to this thread, which is about why women don't necessarily want to ever reamarry. You're discussing a 40-year-old living off her father's income and home who at the same time WANTS to be married (according to you). This is more anecdotal than applicable...just saying.

Interesting story, though. I literally don't know any woman at all who is living with her parents at 40 and working one freelance job a year but, interesting.

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 hours ago, SumGuy said:

It makes total sense...I think also makes sense that they may decide that dates, sex, male companionship are not worth it.   Luckily, women can do that these days without being thought of as a literal witch, although there are those who still call it "unnatural."  

I would definitely want companionship and sex, if I were in that situation. Just not marriage. I'd want all the happy aspects of a relationship.

[Weezy1973]

@CaliforniaGirl I don’t doubt the frustration, anger and resentment, but at the end of the day it absolutely is just a preference of an individual. What else would it be? I’m sure your husbands did pull the bait and switch with you, which isn’t great. But then transferring that to all men, and assuming that is how future relationships are going to be, therefore I’m happy staying single isn’t really logical.

On the other hand, if someone doesn’t trust there own picker, or knows that the kinds of men they’re attracted to aren’t ones that they can be in a relationship with, then yes, I’m sure they would be happier being single.

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I don't know any woman who doesn't want a nice, harmonious, clean home and yard.

I suggest that men should consider evolving in this department.

Single women are now generally expected to be nurturing and caretaking at home (feminine energy), as well as shrewd and ambitious in their careers (masculine energy). Most of us are doing that pretty well, and we've had to evolve from the way most of our mothers were to get it all done. 

This. I mean...we're hearing that it can't be done, but many, many women do both, and have for decades.

[Ruby Slippers]

3 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

"He doesn't care"...somebody better care about the kids being clean and fed and the house being basically clean. Since somebody better...somebody does. 

Until you've been on this side of it, you have no idea how demoralizing and exhausting years and years of being the maid can be.

Honey, I feel your pain coming right through the screen. 

The thing is, just as people judge a man negatively if he goes out in public with a woman who looks scraggly, people judge a woman negatively for having a dirty, disorganized home. A man pulling his weight around the house supports his woman's peace and happiness in a big way. A good man gets this.

You're right that a man making even minor efforts to help around the house can have a dramatically positive effect. I used to praise my ex to the skies anytime he went above and beyond around the house, in an effort to reinforce it positively. It felt absolutely delightful.

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

😍 You sound like my neighbor. They've been married for years, he maintains the yard and swimming pool, and it's a lush tropical paradise out there.

I could kind of pick up that he was not impressed with my ex's yard work skills. Our yards share a border, and his edges are always flawless, while with the ex mine were raggedy and sad-looking 😛 

We have a weekly gardener now but when we were first married my husband and I took turns mowing the lawn (him one week, me the next, regularly like that).

[Ruby Slippers]

5 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I would definitely want companionship and sex, if I were in that situation. Just not marriage. I'd want all the happy aspects of a relationship.

I'm starting to consider giving up on the vision I had before and doing what some of my 40+ friends do: just date and have fun with man friend(s) as the mood arises. Perhaps this would be more productive and positive in the long run.

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Agree although it seems there are those who would say him being "generous, sensitive and loving" take him out of the running for being a "real alpha man" that women want.  

Not at all. I'm not understanding this idea. Of course a guy can be all man but not want to treat his wife like the maid. And I don't know anyone who wants a "real alpha male" as far as the grabby grunting brute described on most sites. I never liked that term, alpha male. I don't want to marry Batman.