CaliforniaGirl Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: I mean as more and more women aren’t seeking relationships, that increases the amount of men that are seeking relationships without a partner. I don't think this is a contribution to the incel problem. Incels never want divorced women anyway. They all seem to talk about how the really young girls won't go for them. So personally, I doubt it. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 3 hours ago, thefooloftheyear said: For women its an absolute mountain of work and often requires cosmetic surgery to equal a same aged man that just gives up donuts and hits the gym a few days a week... Part of that is the unrealistic androgynous shape that women are expected to have. Women once past the teenage stage naturally develop fat on areas of the body that are now seen as undesirable. So woman are always on a treadmill trying to fight against the natural shape of an adult woman. That is why they need surgery to achieve "perfection". 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: Incels want to be loved. If there are 10% fewer women looking for relationships than men, that leaves 10% of men unable to find love. Those are just random numbers to illustrate the point, not sure of the real numbers. I would argue that MGTOW would match the numbers of WGTOW and everyone is happy Edited June 17, 2020 by basil67 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 @CaliforniaGirl you’re right about those things although I’ll add it’s changing slowly. More so with caring for the children than chores around the house. But these types of shifts often take generations. I’d say millennials are likely more equal than Gen X and older, and that trend should continue. That being said, “equal” might be more about hiring cleaning help and daycare than actually taking on chores that neither partner has time / energy to do! Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, QuietRiot said: Right, and I've even know men to experiment and try message on dating sites they aren't attracted to , just to see if they get a response, and they still don't get a response. Well look at the snotty crap even here in this thread. Oh, we prefer young tight girls, blah blah. That attitude shows. It always pokes through. Women aren't stupid. If we guess that fat old guy thinks he's slumming by giving us a chance...hard pass. You want a.20-year-old instead, go get her, no problem. A divorced woman who supports herself doesn't have to put up with that just to be remarried, she can hold out for someone who digs her. And women seem for whatever reason to be able to hold out, overall, more so than men in many cases. So they can be picky/selective. You chase that young girl, we don't need to be competiton, so each gets what he or she wants in the end. It's as things should be. Edited June 17, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, basil67 said: I would argue that MGTOW would match the numbers of WGTOW and everyone is happy Except that’s not what the research says. There’s a smallish percentage difference between the amount of women happy to remain single and men happy to remain single. I don’t think that’s the sole cause of the increase in incels - in fact I suspect the trend towards marriage and kids later in life plays a larger role. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Part of that is the unrealistic androgynous shape that women are expected to have. Or if not androgynous, then hourglass. I see plenty of fit older women at the gym who have neither shape. Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: @CaliforniaGirl you’re right about those things although I’ll add it’s changing slowly. More so with caring for the children than chores around the house. But these types of shifts often take generations. I’d say millennials are likely more equal than Gen X and older, and that trend should continue. That being said, “equal” might be more about hiring cleaning help and daycare than actually taking on chores that neither partner has time / energy to do! Who can afford that? A.comparative monority. Yes, I do think Gen Z may be different. It does take a while. I see couples in their late 20s falling into these patterns. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: Except that’s not what the research says. There’s a smallish percentage difference between the amount of women happy to remain single and men happy to remain single. I don’t think that’s the sole cause of the increase in incels - in fact I suspect the trend towards marriage and kids later in life plays a larger role. Incels are incel because they have no social skills. It's nothing to do with older women not wanting to bother with relationships anymore. Edit to add: with the old guys...take Viagra off the market and it all levels out again. Edited June 17, 2020 by basil67 5 Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, basil67 said: Incels are incel because they have no social skills. It's nothing to do with older women not wanting to bother with relationships anymore. Yup! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, basil67 said: Or if not androgynous, then hourglass. I see plenty of fit older women at the gym who have neither shape. But not hourglass like a mature woman, hourglass like a teenager, that is the problem. Youth is worshipped. Genetics play a big role. Some women if they went to the gym daily and ate "clean" for life would never be a "desirable" shape, hence the need for surgery... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, basil67 said: Incels are incel because they have no social skills. It's nothing to do with older women not wanting to bother with relationships anymore. It’s not just older women. Younger women want to focus on their education and career and many aren’t interested in having a family (although many also change their minds). In prior generations where marriage and babies happened when people were in their early 20s, even men with poor social skills could find a partner as long as they could be a decent provider for the family. I just want to add, I’m not placing blame or anything. Cultures go through shifts all the time and this is just a shift and like all change, some people get left behind. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Just now, Weezy1973 said: It’s not just older women. Younger women want to focus on their education and career and many aren’t interested in having a family (although many also change their minds). In prior generations where marriage and babies happened when people were in their early 20s, even men with poor social skills could find a partner as long as they could be a decent provider for the family. I just want to add, I’m not placing blame or anything. Cultures go through shifts all the time and this is just a shift and like all change, some people get left behind. Yes, women are no longer forced to unhappily marry. Men need to be attractive in various ways. Things change. This is not insurmountable. There's a lot a man can do to be more attractive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilie Jolie Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said: . A divorced woman who supports herself doesn't have to put up with that just to be remarried, she can hold out for someone who digs her. And women seem for whatever reason to be able to hold out, overall, more so than men in many cases. So they can be picky/selective. Yeah, I see that too with the people around me. The single/divorced men want a shot at a first/second family, so they aim for a woman of child bearing age - with relative success, so they're single much longer than the realistic guys who look for companionship. A single/divorced woman just wants peace, on average. Men and woman who do want a relationship of equals tend to gravitate towards each other and find each other; it's just harder to find a compatible person later in life, when everyone is well established. I hate to say this, but new couples are often formed out of old ones, ie new relationships starting in affairs. This seems to be the norm, where I am - people suddenly appear in new relationships without much 'single' time at all. So yeah, being single at a later stage for a woman isn't always an active choice necessarily, but women seem to be dealing better with it. Most of the ones I know would be open to a new relationship, but not at any cost. Edited June 17, 2020 by Emilie Jolie 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said: Who can afford that? A.comparative monority. Well depends on the priorities of the couple I suppose, but if the cleaning is burning the woman out, spending money on getting help in that area might be a good investment. Having both partners work decreases time, but it should increase money. Trading that money for time seems wise. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: Well depends on the priorities of the couple I suppose, but if the cleaning is burning the woman out, spending money on getting help in that area might be a good investment. Having both partners work decreases time, but it should increase money. Trading that money for time seems wise. Again, for a fair percentage of people that is literally not possible. Life is hard and money is tighter than ever nowadays. Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said: Yes, women are no longer forced to unhappily marry. Men need to be attractive in various ways. Things change. This is not insurmountable. There's a lot a man can do to be more attractive. Not disagreeing at all, but like I said it’s a culture change and these things take time. We’re shifting from a time when men were expected to be the main breadwinner to one where they aren’t. It will be an adjustment, and some men are going to get left behind. Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: Not disagreeing at all, but like I said it’s a culture change and these things take time. We’re shifting from a time when men were expected to be the main breadwinner to one where they aren’t. It will be an adjustment, and some men are going to get left behind. Yes and no. As I mentioned, even when both couples work the dynamic is pretty similar to decades ago. Let's be real. Men no longer having to bear the financial burden started on a more mainstream scale in the 70s. Men: it's been 50 years. You've had a little time to adjust. Pick up a friggn' dishrag. Love - women everywhere 😁b Until then...well, by damn, women are pretty tired by divorce time and may just not feel as compelled to jump right back into that commitment...I mean I don't know what else to say. Edited June 17, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said: Again, for a fair percentage of people that is literally not possible. Life is hard and money is tighter than ever nowadays. Of course, but for many it’s just a matter of priorities. I’d argue if it’s driving couples to divorce, it’s worth prioritizing. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Weezy1973 said: In prior generations where marriage and babies happened when people were in their early 20s, even men with poor social skills could find a partner as long as they could be a decent provider for the family. I am not too sure if such men did find a partner. Plenty elderly bachelors around. I realise that some of these men are gay and never reached their full potential due to the times, but some are obviously lacking in social skills... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, CaliforniaGirl said: Yes and no. As I mentioned, even when both couples work the dynamic is pretty similar to decades ago. Let's be real. Men no longer having to hear the financial burden started on a more mainstream scale in the 70s. Men: it's been 50 years. You've had a little time to adjust. Pick up a friggn' dishrag. Love - women everywhere 😁 50 years is not that long, and that’s just when the shift started. The relative delay in marriage has been getting later and later since then. I mean Gen X parents were likely the first generation where it was normal for both parents to work full time, but men still made more on average. Millennials are the first generation where both men and women make the same amount of money. And if the trend continues, future generations will have women making more money. It’s a shift. And like I said, men might not embrace picking up a dishrag, but they would likely support hiring some help if it means saving their marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Weezy1973 said: Of course, but for many it’s just a matter of priorities. I’d argue if it’s driving couples to divorce, it’s worth prioritizing. And yet many don't. So there you have it. If you'd rather divorce than help your wife with what should be your own duties anyway so she feels like you're a couple working together and enjoying together in life then that's that. (The general "you," not Weezy.)I Weezy...you're stating how things should be. I'm saying how they are. The question is why not all divorced women are super anxious to remarry. I'm giving one reason I've definitely seen. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, elaine567 said: I am not too sure if such men did find a partner. Plenty elderly bachelors around. I realise that some of these men are gay and never reached their full potential due to the times, but some are obviously lacking in social skills... Good point... Link to post Share on other sites
Ellener Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 9 hours ago, SumGuy said: I took it to mean sex Men seem to think it is easy for women to get sex, which I believe is true in general if just any man would do, but in reality not any man will do and most men have what they like...not jut any woman will do for them either. So women are more picky about who they'll have sex with and men are more picky about who they'll settle down with?! 🤣 2 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Ellener said: So women are more picky about who they'll have sex with and men are more picky about who they'll settle down with?! 🤣 Of course, the older women who've retired from the scene have moved on from both dating and sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts