Should I have sex with him?

[d0nnivain]

If you stay true to yourself, it's all good. I built a 10 year relationship with a guy I had sex with before we ever went on dates. The beginning was FWB at best & that went on for a while.

 

If you own your decisions I think the rest falls into place.

[BaileyB]

But, I've come to realize I may just need to accept the fact, that for some unexplainable reason, men lose interest if girls give them sex early.

 

Believe what you want to believe, I still say that if it’s the right person it won’t matter if you have sex on the first date, or the third date, or the 10th date. When people are truly interested in each other and they have the same relationship goals, it won’t be a problem.

[newyorker11356]

Believe what you want to believe, I still say that if it’s the right person it won’t matter if you have sex on the first date, or the third date, or the 10th date. When people are truly interested in each other and they have the same relationship goals, it won’t be a problem.

 

This.

 

It's a misconception. Someone can up and ghost you after sex on the 1st date, 3rd-5th date, 10th date, 20th date, etc.

[dispatch3d]

I realize the timing of sex is tricky for women, but waiting 20 dates - the guy will assume he's friend zoned and move on. Even if I know a girl for like 6 months and nothings happened I just assume its going nowhere and try to pull back.

 

So yeah definitely at the extreme of waiting guys will ghost you.

[BaileyB]

I realize the timing of sex is tricky for women, but waiting 20 dates - the guy will assume he's friend zoned and move on. Even if I know a girl for like 6 months and nothings happened I just assume its going nowhere and try to pull back.

 

So yeah definitely at the extreme of waiting guys will ghost you.

 

I have a friend who was living with a guy, and he packed up and “left” her - when she was in the shower!! She came out of the shower and poof - he was gone!

 

If a guy is going to ghost a woman, there is not much you can do to keep it from happening - have sex/don’t have sex, shower/don’t shower

 

I still say the best defence is in the choosing - take your time to get to know someone, watch for signs that he wants a relationship with you/not only in it for the sex, and be sure he is reliable, consistent, dependable... you can never guard against being hurt completely, but if you pick a man of good character, who has the same relationship goals, it improves your odds of finding a “happily ever after...”

[anika99]

Very much agree with the posters who say the timing of sex doesn't have much to do with the outcome of a relationship.

 

When I was very young I had lots of sex with lots of different guys. Some guys would disappear afterwards and some would turn into slingers who would suffocate me with all their attention. Sex is not a bartering tool and women should not think they can manipulate a certain outcome by either giving or withholding sex. A woman should never have sex before she wants to but should feel free to have sex when she wants.

 

That being said sometimes there is value to holding off on sex. My last 2 long term relationships, one was 8yrs long and the next was 10yrs long, didn't include sex in the first few months of dating. There was lots of kissing and petting and strong chemistry but we didn't have early sex. We mutually agreed that we wanted to get to know each other first.

 

Now I don't for a second believe that holding off the sex is the reason these relationships became long term. I think if we had sex on the first date we still would have kept seeing each other and built a relationship because that is what we were both looking for and wanted. However I do believe that not starting the relationship on sex gave us a better foothold on building the relationship. When people have sex right away it often creates anxiety and immediate distrust. The girl worries that she is being used for easy sex and that she could be dumped at any second and the guy worries that maybe she is seeing and having sex with other men or will in the future since she had sex with him so fast. In other words they don't have any trust in each other which starts the relationship on a shakey foundation.

 

By holding off on sex with my last partner we had already built up trust and knew that we truly liked and admired each other's qualities. I wasn't worried that I would be ghosted after sex, not because I had made him wait a certain time frame, but because I knew him well enough to know that he wasn't about that. We had opened up to each other and built an intellectual and emotional bond first. It wasn't when things happened, it was the order in which they happened. I'm not saying anyone is wrong for having sex right away or that you can't have a long lasting healthy relationship with someone whom you've slept with right away. I know lots of people do that but if you're going to sleep with someone right off the bat then you have to accept that you are having sex with a stranger whom you know nothing about. You may get ghosted or you may wind up not even liking the person once you know more about them.

[TheFinalWord]

Regarding your general question,

 

If you're looking to build a relationship, I don't think there is ever a risk in taking things slow and waiting until you have an emotional bond with the person. If he bails before that, all he wanted was casual sex and so you filtered him out.

 

If you go fast, there is a higher risk of being hurt. Bonding chemicals are released after sex (oxytocin, vasopressin), that create an attachment to the person you are having sex with. Once those are released, you can't take them back. While those bonding chemicals create a physical bond, they don't have anything to do with compatibility. Whether you are compatible or not, you will feel attached to the person. If you get ghosted or find there is major incompatibility after sex, you will still feel the pain of loss if the person leaves. You'll have to break a literal chemical bond and neural networks will have to decouple from that person.

 

I know it's popular to say "men can do it, why can't women!" But biologically brain chemistry is different in men and women. Just look at sperm vs. eggs. Sperm is cheap. A man creates billions of sperm a day. Women have limited eggs and they are vulnerable during pregnancy. Men were designed to breed with women quick and efficiently, with little cost. Women can have one child at a time and there is a high-cost to child birth. Men also have 10x the amount of testosterone which blunts the chemical effects of sexual pair bonding. This varies from person to person, of course.

 

That's why I recommend women wait until they see a man is emotionally invested in you. That's not such an easy bond for a man to break. An emotional bond triggers a man's provider/protector mode. Biologically, he is seeing the woman as a long-term mate that he will reproduce with and his protector/provider mode turns on. It's hard for him to betray that bond because it will feel like he's leaving his family in danger.

 

Can a relationship happen after casual sex? Sure. But it's more rare. You happen to hit the lottery and found someone you happened to be compatible with; maybe there was enough before sex for you to evaluate general compatibility. Maturity and knowing yourself probably also has a lot to do with it. But that's more the exception than the rule.

Edited May 11, 2019 by TheFinalWord

[BaileyB]

I wasn't worried that I would be ghosted after sex, not because I had made him wait a certain time frame, but because I knew him well enough to know that he wasn't about that. .

 

Also how I felt in my relationship. I was never worried because I had taken the time and he had demonstrated to me by his words and actions that I could trust him not to do that.

 

Have sex/don’t have sex - entirely your choice. But, if you worry about being ghosted/hurt in a new relationship there is merit in waiting to have sex only because it allows you to build the relationship in other ways and get a true measure of the man.

[frus69]

I know it's popular to say "men can do it, why can't women!" But biologically brain chemistry is different in men and women. Just look at sperm vs. eggs. Sperm is cheap. A man creates billions of sperm a day. Women have limited eggs and they are vulnerable during pregnancy. Men were designed to breed with women quick and efficiently, with little cost. Women can have one child at a time and there is a high-cost to child birth. Men also have 10x the amount of testosterone which blunts the chemical effects of sexual pair bonding. This varies from person to person, of course.

 

That's why I recommend women wait until they see a man is emotionally invested in you. That's not such an easy bond for a man to break. An emotional bond triggers a man's provider/protector mode. Biologically, he is seeing the woman as a long-term mate that he will reproduce with and his protector/provider mode turns on. It's hard for him to betray that bond because it will feel like he's leaving his family in danger.

 

Ok I dont know if "eggs vs sperms" can really prove women get attached easier than men, or testosterone can really blunt the effect of oxytocin, just say I agree with you, and we should wait for men to be emotionally invested..how long does it take for guys to feel emotionally attached to a girl? I doubt a few dates is enough? Probably month(s)? Do people wait months to have sex?

 

And even if guys get emotionally attached, who says they wont change their mind later on. Break ups happen all the time. So I guess at the end of the day nothing can prevent heart breaks.

Edited May 12, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[dispatch3d]

Its more time spent with them than total months elapsed since you met. I'm sure some guys have some hard and fast rules for are they friendzoned/mayaswellstoptrying. That's probably in the 2-3 months range, 6 months max.

 

My biggest crushes have been girls I've been around a lot, so girls I work with, girls in my social groups, etc. But usually if they don't flirt with me that much I don't really have to do anything about it.

 

Normally if we just met my feelings aren't very strong and I can kinda just deal with it on my own. I'm sure I go for relationships a lot less than most.

[frus69]

Believe what you want to believe, I still say that if it’s the right person it won’t matter if you have sex on the first date, or the third date, or the 10th date. When people are truly interested in each other and they have the same relationship goals, it won’t be a problem.

 

I desperately want to believe that too! Lots of people here say otherwise though..

 

Let's see where this is going lol..I may have really hit the lotto ya know

[TheFinalWord]

There is no exact time. I can give you signs of emotional investment.

 

--Does he like spending time with you?

--Is he interested in only you?

--Is he going above and beyond?

--Does he put you first?

--Does he ask for your opinion?

--Does he share his goals and dreams with you (he is seeing you as a part of his future)

 

Men usually change their mind if a woman puts on her best at the beginning and then become complacent. A lot of women are supportive, spend time to look good for him, are kind to their partners during the honeymoon stage. But once they have him, they stop caring what they look like, stop treating him kind, and take him for granted.

 

Continuing to do the things that got you the person in the first place is one of the best ways to keep them. Taking a partner for granted causes people to leave. Sure, you can do your best and someone still leaves. In that case, it's not you, it's them. They're not relationship material. Usually these people will weed themselves out though if you apply your standards. Hope this helps.

[frus69]

Those examples you just gave, sound like something that take months to build, especially the "go above and beyond" and "put you first" and "ask for your opinion"..after only a few dates there simply arent situations where he needs to ask for your opinion or put you first. Ask what movies you like doesn't count, right?..I agree they are signs that he really likes you, but are they signs that you can start having sex now?? I just dont think it's very practical?

 

Also I think we can say men put on their best behaviors at the beginning too. Doesnt it sound familiar when guys show strong interest in you, spend time with you, make effort to see you and once you start to invest and have sex, they slowly fade out?

Sure you can tell yourself "it's them, not me" but that doesnt stop you from being hurt...

[TheFinalWord]

You don't have to accept it if you don't want. Keep doing what you're doing. You know the definition of insanity...

[frus69]

People love misusing the definition of insanity ...Scientists fail million times before they succeed. If we just tell them they are insane, we will never discover a lot of things.

 

Not that I dont want to accept it, I just dont think it's practical. Like I said, do you share your goals and dreams to a woman before you have sex with her?

Edited May 12, 2019 by frus69

[TheFinalWord]

People love misusing the definition of insanity ...

 

You keep trying to turn this into "But men do it too!"...this isn't a competition. I'm giving you advice to control what you can: your own behaviors.

 

Yes, a lot of men are scum bags. Is that what you want to hear? What does that solve?

 

So it's going to take longer to build something real. Men are going to bail. Your mindset should be, good riddance. What sounds better. Hurrying up and having sex to get ghosted on and abused, build emotional scars, and take months to heal. Or taking your time to get to know someone and see signs of an emotional investment before intimacy.

 

Again, I'm assuming you want to build something of quality. If you're in a hurry and want to be intimate with a man you barely know and who feels nothing for you, then I think that is taking a big risk. But it's your heart.

 

 

I am a scientist. We change our methods/variables each time we run an experiment. We don't run the same failed experiment, over and over again expecting to see a different result. We won't stay funded for long. Maybe it's not the best analogy, but you know what I mean. You just want to argue lol Im being kind of sarcastic here, but I know it comes across as attacking over plain text like this

 

As far as sharing my vision...

 

For myself, yes I do. I make it really clear what I want in life and my vision. If she does not see herself fitting in, or are visions are not aligning, then I end the dating relationship before having sex.

Edited May 12, 2019 by TheFinalWord

[frus69]

Takes longer to heal after you spend months with someone and they dump you, then just a few nights NSA and they dump you, doesnt it?

 

Sure it sucks if a guy dumps me (whether ghosts or being honest and tells me, doesn't matter) after some sex, but it hurts more if a guy dumps me in a relationship.

 

If, with the right guy, it doesnt matter when you have sex; with the wrong guy, he can leave you no matter how long you make him wait, then, I'd rather him leaving me sooner than wasting my time I guess.

 

And yes, if I can see the signs of emotional investment that'd be great. But like I said, how long will that take? How long does it take for you to put the woman first, go above and beyond for her and share dreams and all that? And how long do you wait to have sex with the woman? Do you wait after you feel you are emotionally attached?

Edited May 12, 2019 by frus69

[TheFinalWord]

I'm not sure that I buy "if it's with the right guy, the sex can occur whenever." I think the order of getting to know someone than when there's a connection, having sex to create a deeper connection is the way to go. Creating a connection to someone you don't know, downplays the power of sex in my opinion. It makes it seems like sex is this nonchalant activity that has no impact on your psyche, heart, and spirit. And I don't mean that as any offense to others, just my opinion. Yes, it hurts when someone breaks up, but there was a time when the sex created a bond and there was love between you two. Sex did it's job. You can grow from that relationship, even with it ending. With every relationship, you learn more about yourself. You might even learn how to become a better partner in the future. But the sex meant something. It still has value. Whereas from casual sex you don't grow as a person. And you risk degrading the value of sex and it's capacity to help you pair bond with future long term partners.

 

And yes, if I can see the signs of emotional investment that'd be great. But like I said, how long will that take? How long does it take for you to put the woman first, go above and beyond for her and share dreams and all that? And how long do you wait to have sex with the woman? Do you wait after you feel you are emotionally attached?

 

It depends on the level of compatibility in my opinion. If I am really compatible with a woman, it doesn't take too long. Maybe a month, 90 days tops (that's what Steve Harvey recommends, but I agree, that's really hard).

 

I felt extremely compatible with the last woman I seriously dated. We both got off our OLD accounts after a month. We both shared our visions for the future. We had a lot of common interests. We also talked a lot. The problem I have had in the past, is not waiting for her to be emotionally invested. It seems to take longer for women, at least the ones I've encountered. I've learned that lesson the hard way, which is one of the reasons I think it's important. In addition to emotional connection, when it comes to a common vision, it's important to make sure they are over their ex and are emotionally available.

 

She had been cheated on by her former BF and she said she wasn't ready for a relationship. I was invested, however. I wouldn't have ghosted and would have tried to build something real. Maybe we would have broken up, maybe we would have gotten married. Who knows. But the sex would have done it's job at deepening our emotional bond. Taken it to the next level. Other girls I've dates since then, I have cut off if I find we aren't compatible. With those girls, I know she might be compatible with another guy and maybe I could have sex with her, but I don't want to create damage for a different guy she might otherwise fit well with.

Edited May 12, 2019 by TheFinalWord

[elaine567]

Sex also tends to muddy the waters.

Once sex is involved the level of attraction tends to go up.

We(gen) can't get enough of seeing this person, we become attached and emotionally invested. Men and women then start ignoring the "bad bits", they concentrate on the sex and revel in the honeymoon phase. Sex smooths the waters and feeds the fantasy.

Once their brain kicks into gear they realise they have fallen for someone totally incompatible, but it can then be too late as they now "love" him/her. They then spend months or years trying to fit round pegs into square holes...

[BaileyB]

Takes longer to heal after you spend months with someone and they dump you, then just a few nights NSA and they dump you, doesnt it?

 

Sure it sucks if a guy dumps me (whether ghosts or being honest and tells me, doesn't matter) after some sex, but it hurts more if a guy dumps me in a relationship.

 

If, with the right guy, it doesnt matter when you have sex; with the wrong guy, he can leave you no matter how long you make him wait, then, I'd rather him leaving me sooner than wasting my time I guess.

 

And yes, if I can see the signs of emotional investment that'd be great. But like I said, how long will that take? How long does it take for you to put the woman first, go above and beyond for her and share dreams and all that? And how long do you wait to have sex with the woman? Do you wait after you feel you are emotionally attached?

 

Well then, this is your issue - isn’t it. You are afraid to get hurt, putting your guard up, and hoping that if if he is going to dump you, you would rather he do it early... Thus, you have sex early in the relationship so you will know and not be hurt as badly as if you invest more.

 

Your “sex early” policy is really a form of self protection.

 

Wouldn’t it be nice if it worked this way, but it doesn’t. Relationships are always a risk. You could be married to someone for 20 years and then one day - they decide they don’t love you anymore and they pack their bags and leave. Just like that. What are you going to do, never fall in love? Never get married? Never take the chance?

 

You wait long enough to feel that you know the man - that he is worthy of your trust and affection. And then, you take a risk. Like everyone, in every relationship, you jump and you take a risk. Let’s hope it works out, but sometimes it won’t. And that’s ok. It may hurt but that’s called LIFE. You will survive.

 

It’s risk vs reward. Someday, you are going to meet a man where the reward is worth the risk.

[5x5]

There is no exact time. I can give you signs of emotional investment.

 

--Does he like spending time with you?

--Is he interested in only you?

--Is he going above and beyond?

--Does he put you first?

--Does he ask for your opinion?

--Does he share his goals and dreams with you (he is seeing you as a part of his future)

 

After a little experience my wife readily dumped men, who put her first and went above and beyond. Or put another way, what a great way to shut down a woman's sexual desire.

 

Seriously guys like that in her experience, turned out to be; clingy needy and (for want of a better term) beta. Plus they were accommodating to the point of being boring. While being easily walked over, insecure and often weak as well.

 

Now for some that kind of man may fit the bill, yet for others they certainly don't.

 

Continuing to do the things that got you the person in the first place is one of the best ways to keep them. Taking a partner for granted causes people to leave. Sure, you can do your best and someone still leaves. In that case, it's not you, it's them. They're not relationship material. Usually these people will weed themselves out though if you apply your standards. Hope this helps.

 

"They're not relationship material" is rather presumptive.

 

I ended an ongoing sexual relationship with a women not for any notable reason on her behalf. Yet I have had a splendid ongoing almost 23 year relationship, with my wife. So it is a misnomer to suggest that someone leaving, isn't relationship material. Of which there are plenty like me, both men and women who have done the same and make dandy partners.

[5x5]

Again, I'm assuming you want to build something of quality. If you're in a hurry and want to be intimate with a man you barely know and who feels nothing for you, then I think that is taking a big risk. But it's your heart.

 

Not everyone male or female feel the way you do. I prefer to find out if their is sexual compatibility, before I invest myself emotionally in a significant way. My wife feels the same way, as do a number of women I have been with and some of my male and female friends.

 

In my experience, it hasn't been difficult building a quality relationship, with going for sex at the beginning, whether it be within 2-3 hours of meeting someone, through to the 3rd date.

 

For plenty of us sex is just sex. So for us it's a waste of time, investing in someone emotionally if they turn out to be a dud partner sexually.

[anika99]

If you go fast, there is a higher risk of being hurt. Bonding chemicals are released after sex (oxytocin, vasopressin), that create an attachment to the person you are having sex with. Once those are released, you can't take them back. While those bonding chemicals create a physical bond, they don't have anything to do with compatibility. Whether you are compatible or not, you will feel attached to the person. If you get ghosted or find there is major incompatibility after sex, you will still feel the pain of loss if the person leaves. You'll have to break a literal chemical bond and neural networks will have to decouple from that person.

 

Agreed, which brings up another downside of having sex and getting attached to soon. Women (in general, I'm not saying ALL women) tend to be less objective about a man once they have had sex with him a few times. If the man doesn't ghost but instead turns out to be a selfish abusive jerk, some women will still continue seeing him and making excuses for the man's poor behaviour because of those powerful brain chemicals.

[anika99]

People love misusing the definition of insanity ...Scientists fail million times before they succeed. If we just tell them they are insane, we will never discover a lot of things.

 

Not that I dont want to accept it, I just dont think it's practical. Like I said, do you share your goals and dreams to a woman before you have sex with her?

 

The saying goes that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. It's not about failing and trying again. Scientists do not try the same thing a million times and then on the millionth and one try, just magically succeed. They try one thing and if that try fails, they do something different. They don't go "we injected a monkey with this new medication and it failed, so let's inject a million more monkeys with the same medication until we find a monkey it works on" because THAT would be insane. If an experiment fails then they go back to the drawing board to develop a new approach.

[TheFinalWord]

After a little experience my wife readily dumped men, who put her first and went above and beyond. Or put another way, what a great way to shut down a woman's sexual desire.

 

Now THAT's presumptuous. I already said, my way is not the only way. You seem awfully triggered, which I didn't think a beta could trigger an alpha? Maybe your wife can fill us in? Oh, wait, is that a beta or an alpha move, for your wife to speak on your behalf? Being a beta, I'm unsure.

 

Joking aside, I should have provided additional context there. Putting her first in terms of what does she need to feel safe with a man, what does she need emotionally to feel connected, etc. even what does she need sexually? I don't think prioritizing a woman's needs in that regard is beta or killing desire. Communication is key to healthy, high quality sex in my opinion. If you mean, a man throwing his goals and dreams out the window to simp for a woman? I agree, that's dump worthy. A woman should compliment a man's life, not fulfill it.

 

Not everyone male or female feel the way you do.

 

Really? I would have never guessed

Edited May 12, 2019 by TheFinalWord