Female friends and people watching in our partnership

[Tamfana]

OP, your guy sounds pathetically immature. He doesn’t people-watch men or greet men or smile at men, right? He might get punched in the face if he mooned over some strange guy out in public.

 

Twice I went on dates with guys who stared at women in a crass, tongue-hanging-out kind of way when we were out. Both times I politely got a cab (after handing him enough $ to cover my part of the bill plus) and said something innocuous like, we're just not a match. It isn’t that it hurts or offends me. It’s that I don’t respect men who can’t control their little head thinking and can’t act with dignity when in public. I sure don’t want to be associated with them. Ick. "Oh, you date John? the guy who stares at my wife's cleavage?" LOL. No thanks.

[Dandelioness]

And if IÂ’m being very honest, based on your response to this most recent incident - my first thought was that your behaviour toward your husband was abusive. My goodness, it seems the man canÂ’t even divert his eyes from yours without being accused of being abusive and gaslighting you. Even if his eye does wander, who talks to their partner that way?

 

Your response is WAY out of proportion to what appears to be a relatively minor incident.

 

Thank you for your honest opinion. I'm struggling to understand some of tour thoughts though.

 

I don't see how my responses are abusive .. perhaps blunt and rude, yes. Who talks to their partner that way? A person who has had enough of the BS, I suspect.

 

I want to clarify.. before this thread began, I kept a lot of this to myself. When I'd bring this up, he'd deny and send me these "loving" emails. His responses made me question my own perception. "I'm pretty sure I saw/heard/smelled..." Maybe I am overreacting. Maybe I'm just insecure and controlling. I started putting myself down and blaming myself for how I felt. Afterall, my feelings belonged to me, right? But then I started realizing there's a pattern here. This guy is being disrespectful/deceitful and lying about it. So eventually I came on this website for feedback.

 

I know about gaslighting because I have a mother who gaslights often. Only 1.5 out of her 4 children speak to her. (I'm the .5 since I keep communication with her limited). It wasn't until members in this thread suggested he was gaslighting me that I started to Google this further. I'm trying to understand here.

 

I don't watch him like a hawk. I'd only be setting myself up. Since the start of this thread, this new incident is the only incident I brought up and paid attention to. I brought it up because I was interested to know how he'd respond this time.. after everything that's happened in this thread. He told me to let him know so I held his word to it. What got me irritated was his responses.

 

His emails make me sick. It's hard to read all the gushy-mushy BS when his actions don't measure up.

 

He's admitted to gaslighting me. It was brought up in our counseling session. She labeled it as psychological abuse. Now, he's retracted from that and says he's only done it once over smoking. He's angry at me because he's now saying I'm accusing him of being abusive. His self-image is really important to him and he has said so. He wants others to think he's a good guy, he says. So when anyone addresses any slight, his reactions are excessive.

 

Our counselor wants us to pick the top 3 issues that keep cropping up. This will be one of them. Hopefully, with her professional experience, she can let me know if I 'am' overreacting and being abusive to him. I don't want to be so this is something I need to know.

[Dandelioness]

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but you will drive yourself batty if you keep this up.

 

I had a hard time adopting that philosophy. It sounded to me like they were saying my boyfriend could just do whatever he wanted no matter how it made me feel.

 

In the end I decided to completely let go of trying to control.

 

This rings true to me. I can't control the situation. I can tell him with a kind heart, cry, or be a real *beep* about it. Nothing changes with permanency. I really don't think he has a lot of empathy towards anyone. He's too concerned with his image and feelings. Unfortunately it has come down to a realization that this relationship was not meant for long term. I thought it did, once upon a time. Now, I have no respect for him. There's no certainty to anything that comes out of his mouth.

 

This is a scary place to be when having a 3month old and 2 year old.. plus a long term financial plan.

 

Thank you for sharing your story.

[Dandelioness]

OP, your guy sounds pathetically immature. He doesn’t people-watch men or greet men or smile at men, right? He might get punched in the face if he mooned over some strange guy out in public.

 

He's a people watcher.. so yes, both men and women, and I'm fine with that. I'm fine with him observing men/women, and some do smile at him politely. We live in a city. I do the same, to a point. I'm not fine with his disrespect that comes with it sometimes. I'm definitely not fine with the denial and lies that come with it afterwards. I'm not delusional. I trust myself.

[amaysngrace]

So you only don’t like him people watching a hottie?

[Dandelioness]

So you only don’t like him people watching a hottie?

 

Incorrect. It's not about "people watching" at all. There's a ton of info in this thread that explains this.

[amaysngrace]

I’ve read this thread.

 

You just wrote that you don’t have a problem with him watching other people, so the only ones you do have a problem with are the hotties in yoga pants.

 

You know, if you felt more secure in your relationship you probably wouldn’t feel threatened by anyone.

 

I’m not blaming you, it’s hard to feel secure with someone you don’t trust. I was pointing it out.

[Dandelioness]

I’ve read this thread.

 

You just wrote that you don’t have a problem with him watching other people, so the only ones you do have a problem with are the hotties in yoga pants.

 

You know, if you felt more secure in your relationship you probably wouldn’t feel threatened by anyone.

 

I’m not blaming you, it’s hard to feel secure with someone you don’t trust. I was pointing it out.

 

It's not the watching. It's the 'how' at times that's disrespectful. I'm only threatened by him.

 

And you're right. It's hard for me to feel secure with him when I don't trust him. I wasn't always like that. He gave me reasons to not trust him and he's acknowledged that.

[amaysngrace]

Does he tell you he doesn’t tell you the truth because you couldn’t handle it?

[Dandelioness]

Does he tell you he doesn’t you tell the truth because you couldn’t handle it?

 

He's said different things. He lies..

 

1) .. because he doesn't want to disappoint me or let me down because my opinion of him is very important to him.

 

2) .. and doesn't know why it's a knee-jerk reaction, stemming from childhood

 

3) .. because he doesn't want to hurt anyone. His self-image is so important to him that it upsets him when they think less of him from something he's done.

 

He's lied to a lot of people, he's told me. He used to be a drug addict before my time. He just celebrated his 7th year clean. It's great that he's moved on from that but the lying behaviours that went with that stuck. I don't judge his drug past.

[amaysngrace]

Does he know that it’s wrong to lie?

 

Ugh, that would drive me crazy. I don’t think there is an excuse for lying and it seems like he has a bunch of them.

 

No wonder why you’re insecure in your relationship. I would be too.

[The Outlaw]

He's being disrespectful to you simply by keeping in touch with her. If he had any respect for you, he wouldn't want anything to do with this woman whatsoever.

[mark clemson]

Unfortunately it has come down to a realization that this relationship was not meant for long term. I thought it did, once upon a time. Now, I have no respect for him. There's no certainty to anything that comes out of his mouth.

 

This is a scary place to be when having a 3month old and 2 year old.. plus a long term financial plan.

 

So I'm thinking... THIS.

 

Some folks are just messes and it takes a while to realize it if they're good at hiding it. Definitely unfortunate to have attachments to him, but what's done is done. Hopefully you will figure out some ways to reduce the difficulties if you decide to detach from him.

[Dis]

I honestly don't even think there's a point in talking things out with him through email, text or face to face

 

I've known two people like this guy in my life and I no longer speak to either of them. The damage was done and I knew they would never change. People like this are deeply damaged and literally cannot help themselves as they shift blame, gaslight, rug sweep and manipulate. It's second nature to them. Trying to get honesty, authenticity, accountability or any other positive change in this man is like going to a drug dealer for an honest transaction. There. Is. No. Point.

 

OP, what drew you to him? People like this are born with this dysfunctional mind set. It's unlikely he wasn't this way when you met him.

[Mrs._December]

He's being disrespectful to you simply by keeping in touch with her. If he had any respect for you, he wouldn't want anything to do with this woman whatsoever.

OP, he hasn't had any respect for you from day #1, from the sounds of it. Sadly, I see you desperately trying to spackle the growing cracks in this relationship because you don't want to have to make a life decision and be done with him.

 

Dandelioness, I've read your exact story over and over and over and over on various message boards every single day. Women, desperate to continue clinging to someone they know on some deep, visceral level is just no good for them, continually make excuses for the inexcusable, make allowances for the unacceptable, and constantly overlook their own boundaries in order to hold onto someone at all costs. That's what you've been doing since you started this thread (and likely the whole time you've been with him) - continually making concessions and resetting the limit on your own boundaries in order to find a way to be OK with staying with someone like this.

 

I'm willing to bet that the personal boundaries you had in place for romantic relationships (including this one when it started) probably look pretty unrecognizable to you at this point. You've continually chipped away at your own boundaries, lowering the bar again and again and again each time he's let you down, because the alternative is to admit he's not worthy of you and that you need to do the hard and scary work of leaving this person in your past. So that's what you do - keep lowering the bar and finding a way to somehow be ok with it each time you do it.

 

Please just STOP doing it. Be done already.

[BaileyB]

Women, desperate to continue clinging to someone they know on some deep, visceral level is just no good for them, continually make excuses for the inexcusable, make allowances for the unacceptable, and constantly overlook their own boundaries in order to hold onto someone at all costs. That's what you've been doing since you started this thread (and likely the whole time you've been with him) - continually making concessions and resetting the limit on your own boundaries in order to find a way to be OK with staying with someone like this.

 

Very true.

 

What I see in your posts, you are trying to hold him accountable when the person who needs to be held accountable is yourself. You chose this guy, at some point you are going to need to make the decision that this guy and this relationship is not good for you. Rather than drag him to counselling, continuing as Mrs. December states so eloquently to try and sparkle the growing cracks in the relationship, at some point you are going to have to accept the situation for what it is and make a decision...

[FMW]

Sometimes we have responses to something (a behavior in this case) that seem extreme to someone from the outside because it's not just about this behavior. There's a full history and background story that bit by bit builds up to where we are no longer able to take it anymore. We no longer have any tolerance, so the seemingly smallest thing is just impossible to take.

 

Sounds like you've reached your limit, there is no remedy for this relationship. Stop holding on. I know ending it is a scary thought and won't be easy. But at this point I don't see any way to get past this.

[Dandelioness]

I agree with what's been said recently. As I've said before, I owe it to my children to try and work out the differences before throwing in the towel. We have our second app in a couple of days and I'm really interested to hearing what the counselor has to say, to the both of us. It's a mental process for me. We both have homework to do on ourselves and I welcome the challenge.

 

I was a single parent once before. The relationship lasted 5 years and once I left, I knew whole-heartedly I made the right decision. I had an 8month old, at the time (18years ago). It made the transition easier since I didn't have to fight against myself.. and I never went back for any one reason.

 

I want to make careful considerations and not plunge forward based on emotions.

[Dandelioness]

We had our second appointment. There was talk about his subconscious need for attention. During our next meet, she wants to tap more into his past, his "trauma", and attachment style.

 

We'll see what happens next..

[BaileyB]

Is there any discussion at this marriage counselling about your role in the difficulties in your marriage? Or, are we only focusing on your husband at this time...

[Dandelioness]

Is there any discussion at this marriage counselling about your role in the difficulties in your marriage? Or, are we only focusing on your husband at this time...

 

We talked about attachment styles and how we both bring history into our relationship (as we all do). She mentioned what she wanted to discuss next session. She asked us to name the top 3 issues we have. He said, Trust (lack of trust I have in him), Communication, and our individual insecurities. He really hasn't said much against me so far. He's had opportunities.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Dandelioness