Female friends and people watching in our partnership

[mark clemson]

You're right. It's not normal to be in a sexless relationship. I will say pregnancy was part of that reason for me. Plus we were both working multiple jobs and are also exhausted. But, emotionally speaking, I have expressed to him that these issues we have DOES affect our sex life.. as it would to many. He doesn't acknowledge that.

 

 

Right - one part (of many here apparently) is exactly that. He's not coming to grips with reality and/or is lashing out at you to a certain extent, which doesn't help matters. You could express to him directly that the ogling bothers you, if you haven't already. Just be a bit cautious since there are so many issues interrelated here.

[fishlips]

You know it's entirely possible that he's ogling other women to get back at you for not having sex with him. Was he always like that? Or did he start doing it after there was no sex?

 

I agree that counseling is a good idea. Is he going too?

[BaileyB]

I don’t see you owning your part in anything. Everything he does is met with distrust by you. Friendships, visiting with his family, etc, is all an act against you somehow.

 

I’m coming late to this discussion, but I agree with this. I know you have children, but it makes me wonder why anyone would stay in a relationship that makes them this unhappy... to be very honest.

 

I hope counselling is helpful for you both.

Edited April 22, 2019 by BaileyB

[Mr. Lucky]

My partner and I have been in a 5-year common-law relationship.

 

Your insistence on continuing to post this doesn't make it true.

 

While there are slight variations from state-to-state, this is generally true:

 

"Cohabitation alone does not constitute a common law marriage. While the requirements for common law marriage vary slightly among states, the two essential elements are cohabitation and "holding out." "Holding out" means the couple's actions tell the world they are husband and wife."

 

You don't meet the legal standard for "holding out" if you're married to someone else...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Dandelioness]

How is he the controlling one when you’re having a problem with nearly everything he does? The opposite of controlling is contentment. Google it if you don’t believe me.

 

I don’t see you owning your part in anything. Everything he does is met with distrust by you. Friendships, visiting with his family, etc, is all an act against you somehow.

 

You say his friend was pleasant and friendly in a non-flirtatious manner and you even found a problem with that!

 

And probably grilled him to the max about her then got mad when he said enough and took off to his parents.

 

You have children and you’re old enough to not be acting this way. You can’t control him, you can only control yourself. I’d start there.

 

Have you read this entire thread? It seems like you've missed a few key points. I've explained 'how' he's been controlling. I've explained the difference between visiting his family vs. purposeful isolation. I've explained it was he whom I was more concerned with than the other woman. I barely know that friend, apart from the few negative things he said about her. He also wasn't so forthright about who initiated the conversation. If she's a good friend, she most certainly hasn't been a part of his life throughout our relationship - that I'm aware of. Also, with our previous concerns, he's admitted to being dishonest. It's not all in my head. You're creating a fictional scenario based on your personal opinion. It's fine but it's not correct.

[Dandelioness]

Your insistence on continuing to post this doesn't make it true.

 

While there are slight variations from state-to-state, this is generally true:

 

"Cohabitation alone does not constitute a common law marriage. While the requirements for common law marriage vary slightly among states, the two essential elements are cohabitation and "holding out." "Holding out" means the couple's actions tell the world they are husband and wife."

 

You don't meet the legal standard for "holding out" if you're married to someone else...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Ok, fair enough. I've never heard that. My partner is not at all bothered that I'm legally separated.. at the very least hasn't expressed so. I have thought about taking care of this but it's an expensive process.

[BaileyB]

Ok, fair enough. I've never heard that. My partner is not at all bothered that I'm legally separated.. at the very least hasn't expressed so. I have thought about taking care of this but it's an expensive process.

 

It befuddles my mind to think that someone would chose to start another relationship and bring two children into the world while married to another man - because, “to get divorced is an expensive process.”

Edited April 22, 2019 by BaileyB

[BTDT2012]

I disagree with you. There have been successful common-law relationships and unsuccessful marriages. I don't think a piece of paper and a ceremony makes a difference.

 

 

It makes a difference in mindset. And how do you have a common law marriage when you are legally marries to someone else?

[BaileyB]

It makes a difference in mindset. And how do you have a common law marriage when you are legally marries to someone else?

 

And if you were to separate, what would your rights be as it relates to division of assets, spousal support, or even custody. It may well be to his benefit that you are still married to another man...

[BTDT2012]

I've explained the difference between visiting his family vs. purposeful isolation.

 

 

How is it purposeful isolation? Are you confined to the house when he leaves?

[Tamfana]

You have a 2 year old and 8 week old?! Oh my lord. None this should be happening in your life right now. This might sound like odd advice, but I say, ignore him, don't fight or criticize, and just focus on healing and being healthy yourself, on your new baby and the new dynamic with your older child who's certainly adjusting to the new baby too.

 

This was surprising to me, that your partner just takes your 8 week old away for long periods as he wishes. Are you okay with your 8-week old being away for long periods at your partner's option? Not the punishment or manipulation element, but the fact that this is an infant away from her mother. I wouldn't have been. It would have been inconceivable to me, and to my husband, frankly. Are you nursing?

[Dandelioness]

You have a 2 year old and 8 week old?! Oh my lord. None this should be happening in your life right now. This might sound like odd advice, but I say, ignore him, don't fight or criticize, and just focus on healing and being healthy yourself, on your new baby and the new dynamic with your older child who's certainly adjusting to the new baby too.

 

This was surprising to me, that your partner just takes your 8 week old away for long periods as he wishes. Are you okay with your 8-week old being away for long periods at your partner's option? Not the punishment or manipulation element, but the fact that this is an infant away from her mother. I wouldn't have been. It would have been inconceivable to me, and to my husband, frankly. Are you nursing?

 

He hasn't done this with our 8 week old yet. He did take them both out for about 5 hours once. Our baby was only 6 weeks old, and yes, even a fun and innocent outting for them, felt like it was too long for us both to be apart that long. He didn't realize nor did he do it on purpose.

[Tamfana]

He hasn't done this with our 8 week old yet. He did take them both out for about 5 hours once. Our baby was only 6 weeks old, and yes, even a fun and innocent outting for them, felt like it was too long for us both to be apart that long. He didn't realize nor did he do it on purpose.

 

Okay. Phew! I have strong feelings about the first months with a new baby. Nothing is more important during that period than mother and baby and I personally would have been so anxious if the baby was being taken away while I was nursing.

 

Then, on another note, you asked what you can do for your part. Two things stuck out to me. One is talking. I think you and your partner should try just talking to each other rather than texting and emailing. I think people are more likely to engage their hearts and their compassion when they're sitting down to talk to and listen to each other and looking each other in the eye. The other is moving back into your bed together. Whether you have sex or not at first, I think it would help a lot to be sleeping next to each other and eventually rekindling your sexual relationship. Just some ideas.

[Dandelioness]

Okay. Phew! I have strong feelings about the first months with a new baby. Nothing is more important during that period than mother and baby and I personally would have been so anxious if the baby was being taken away while I was nursing.

 

Then, on another note, you asked what you can do for your part. Two things stuck out to me. One is talking. I think you and your partner should try just talking to each other rather than texting and emailing. I think people are more likely to engage their hearts and their compassion when they're sitting down to talk to and listen to each other and looking each other in the eye. The other is moving back into your bed together. Whether you have sex or not at first, I think it would help a lot to be sleeping next to each other and eventually rekindling your sexual relationship. Just some ideas.

 

Thank you

 

We did have a face-to-face conversation yesterday. It was calm from beginning to end. He admitted to a lot of things this time which kept the conversation flowing. He's a physical type person but understood why my guard is up. He wants to be more self-aware on how he comes off when in public. I stressed that this has nothing to do with "people watching" and more specifically how he's ogling women - and yes, I demonstrated. He looked embarrassed and said it 'was' disrespectful. I also talked about the difference between "feelings" and "behaviours" and that he needed to acknowledge what the problem is rather than shifting it to be just how 'I' feel about it.

 

Overall, the conversation went well. He said he's going to stop people watching because it's what leads to ogling women inappropriately. I told him this was really an unrealistic idea since we live in a city .. people are everything .. I would never ask him to do that. My thoughts to him was to focus more on the why. If he's working against his own personal grain, then maybe we're not meant to be together. Respect should be a natural thing we do for people we love. If that's difficult, then I should move on.

 

We still plan on going to our app with a counselor. The intimacy needs to be repaired but I'm no robot. My heart aches and I need to see more than false promises because he's afraid to be alone.

 

As for the cosleeping. Yes, it doesn't help and we've talked about that before. We're both wanting to continue this though because our girls are little and this is for them. Our baby is only 8weeks old and I don't want to take away something important to her, something her sister was able to get, for a person who has been disrespectful. We'll have to sort something out to rebuild for sure... and not just for him. I need intimacy, too. I'm just as much affected by this loss.

[preraph]

I have seen a situation where the husband took the baby just to try to get the mother to do what he wanted and follow him wherever he was going. The situation I saw was out at a zoo and it was mother, grandmother and me and the father, who hates people. And the maybe year or two year old. We all wanted to go one way and the father didn't want to, so he just snatched the baby and took off to where he wanted to go. We all talked about it and decided he only did it to force the mother to come with him, so we just went on the opposite direction, because he was not normally even competent at taking care of the child and she'd found she couldn't trust him not to forget about him if she left the child home while she went to the store back home. But we figured he picked the child up and carried him, so no way he could just put him down and then forget him. He eventually found us again. But it was just him trying to control and boss the wife around. Not a great first impression for me and the grandmother!

 

Seems like I a baby might need its mom to nurse or something, though. So not sure what it going on, but he shouldn't be doing things without talking to you first.

[Dandelioness]

I have seen a situation where the husband took the baby just to try to get the mother to do what he wanted and follow him wherever he was going. The situation I saw was out at a zoo and it was mother, grandmother and me and the father, who hates people. And the maybe year or two year old. We all wanted to go one way and the father didn't want to, so he just snatched the baby and took off to where he wanted to go. We all talked about it and decided he only did it to force the mother to come with him, so we just went on the opposite direction, because he was not normally even competent at taking care of the child and she'd found she couldn't trust him not to forget about him if she left the child home while she went to the store back home. But we figured he picked the child up and carried him, so no way he could just put him down and then forget him. He eventually found us again. But it was just him trying to control and boss the wife around. Not a great first impression for me and the grandmother!

 

Seems like I a baby might need its mom to nurse or something, though. So not sure what it going on, but he shouldn't be doing things without talking to you first.

 

When our two year old was young enough to be in a carrier, there were several outtings we would go on with his family or just the two of us. He'd be carrying her due to her weight being too much for my back. Anyway, any time I'd try to interact with her, he'd turn her away from me. He would walk ahead of me as if the two of them were on an outting alone. I wasn't smothering them. I was just wanting to share something fun with my daughter. This is another controlling tactic he uses. He dictates when I'm allowed to interact with her when she's in his carrier.

[Dandelioness]

I've been pretty low since our face-to-face conversation took place. As I mentioned already, he admitted on a few things that are unsettling for me.

 

 

1) He finally admitted to having a crush on a neighbouring female we see regularly in our neighborhood. She often approaches him and flirts. She became an issue when we first started dating (and having plenty of sex) when I noticed him blantly flirting with her like I wasn't present. He's denied it throughout our 5 year relationship until the other day. He said he had a crush on her before I came along, which is a lie, and claims he is no longer interested in her.. (but tracks her anyway). He says he makes it a point to ignore her now when we're together because he knows I get upset about it. Umm, so he's not ignoring her because he's simply not interested in her. He's ignoring because I'm present and we've already had discussions about him flirting with her.

 

2) He's told his dad that I'm upset with him because he's a people watcher and looks at other women. Doesn't this just suggest I'm the jealous type? It doesn't paint a clear picture about our situation. Also, can we not have ANYTHING PRIVATE between the two of us? Like I said, they're my neighbours as well. I see them multiple times per day, sometimes. I've asked him to be loyal to me because it's damaging to the relationship I have with his parents when he tells themm these distorted truths.. the truth being, we have a problem.

 

3) He mentioned he texted his ex-fling but then said he just sent her a group message when forwarding our daughters' photos. This means she has his email address, as well. He also said he tried to delete her number off his cell but didn't know how. He wanted me to show him how to do it.. on his cell. Um, I don't know. All cells are different. This is days later after I assumed it was already deleted. He tried to assure me that she hasn't contacted him at all, since we ran into her, as if to say "nothing is going on between them". I couldn't help but think maybe it's because she's not interested in him but not because he wouldn't if the opportunity came up.

 

Anyway, this may sound silly to you. I don't doubt my post partum is contributing to my overall feeling. Plus, I'm doing a heavy-metals detox and the die-off has kicked in as well. I still think the bigger problem is with the lack of trust I have for him, due to his behaviours.

 

I'm trying to snap out of it..

[BaileyB]

So much drama here... Whether it is real or imagined, it is not healthy... His behavior is not respectful, your response is very reactive... wash, rinse, repeat.

 

I just can’t imagine how the two of you will have a healthy and happy long term relationship... I can’t imagine having to deal with this everyday...

Edited April 24, 2019 by BaileyB

[Dandelioness]

So much drama here... Whether it is real or imagined, it is not healthy... His behavior is not respectful, your response is very reactive... wash, rinse, repeat.

 

I just can’t imagine how the two of you will have a healthy and happy long term relationship... I can’t imagine having to deal with this everyday...

 

Reactive? I sent him an email explaining where I was coming from. I mentioned that I knew my post partum was likely causing a heightened sensitivity but that his behaviours came off disrespectful. Initially he downplayed everything. When we emailed further, he started gaslighting me, suggesting this was just how I "felt" about it vs. anything he was doing wrong. We then had a calm face-to-face conversation about where he finally apologized and agreed that what he had done (in the visual examples I gave him) 'was' rude and disrespectful towards me. We talked about the difference between people watching and tracking and he was seemingly embarrassed to learn what his actions looked like.

 

I get I'm going to receive a host of responses. I'm not sure though why you think I'm being reactive. I expressed my concerns about the disrespect and questioned the point of our relationship.

 

To clarify, we don't deal with drama every day. A lot of the times it gets swept under the rug. Apart from our romantic issues we generally get along well. We coparent our children and spend a lot of time together as a family. This issue seems to crop up every so often and so I wanted to address it. It may be drama to you but anything that is damaging to a relationship is worthy of a discussion.

[Mr. Lucky]

your response is very reactive... wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Here's one micro-example of what Bailey's talking about:

 

Anyway, any time I'd try to interact with her, he'd turn her away from me. He would walk ahead of me as if the two of them were on an outting alone. I wasn't smothering them. I was just wanting to share something fun with my daughter. This is another controlling tactic he uses. He dictates when I'm allowed to interact with her when she's in his carrier.

 

If he doesn't hold the child carrier exactly the right way, you're claiming parental alienation. In almost every situation, you assume the worst and ascribe to him the basest, selfish and most negative emotions and/or motivations possible. I have a higher opinion of some people I actively dislike than you seem to have of your husband. According to you, he's manipulative, deceitful, selfish, narcissistic, conniving, lecherous and disloyal.

 

And guess what - you may be right. Which begs the simple question why you'd stay and raise two young children with such a poor excuse of a husband and father?

 

Mr. Lucky

[BaileyB]

He's told his dad that I'm upset with him because he's a people watcher and looks at other women. Doesn't this just suggest I'm the jealous type? It doesn't paint a clear picture about our situation. Also, can we not have ANYTHING PRIVATE between the two of us? I've asked him to be loyal to me because it's damaging to the relationship I have with his parents when he tells themm these distorted truths.. the truth being, we have a problem.

 

Another example of how you are reactive.

 

Dandelioness, I don’t know you at all, so I could be wrong... but, it’s almost like you enjoy creating drama. You are very reactive, to your husband and to the posters with whom you disagree on this board.

 

I agree with Mr. Lucky, you have very little good to say about your husband. If what you claim is the truth, that he is creeping around on women, texting ex-girlfriends, manipulating and controlling your interaction with your children, then those are BIG problems. It does kind of make me scratch my head though because you chose him and you chose to have two children with him...

Edited April 25, 2019 by BaileyB

[Dandelioness]

Another example of how you are reactive.

 

Dandelioness, I don’t know you at all, so I could be wrong... but, it’s almost like you enjoy creating drama. You are very reactive, to your husband and to the posters with whom you disagree on this board.

 

I agree with Mr. Lucky, you have very little good to say about your husband. If what you claim is the truth, that he is creeping around on women, texting ex-girlfriends, manipulating and controlling your interaction with your children, then those are BIG problems. It does kind of make me scratch my head though because you chose him and you chose to have two children with him...

 

Those who know me often say I'm more of the diplomatic type. I believe in equal and fair treatment. So no, drama is not my field of expertise. I try to avoid it. Maybe it's coming off like it here because it's a safe and anonymous place for me to vent and release my frustrations as I'm trying to sort through this hurt. We're getting there.

 

I'm still not seeing "reactive" as I'm not upset by anyone's comments here but rather am responding for clarity. It's really hard to understand via text because it doesn't convey expressed emotion. It's why communicating via text with my partner hasn't been successful. So no, I'm not at all upset with anyone here.

 

Of course I am seeing my partner in a negative light. I'm feeling pretty beat up by the latest couple of events and am not in the best mental state right now. Post partum is a real experience and my first experience with it (I have 3 children).

 

I didn't say he was creeping around other women. And I wouldn't have known how he'd manipulate my interactions with our children until I had them. We specifically had our second as a gift to our first so she would have a sibling to grow up with.

 

I also mentioned positive things about our relationship. The purpose of this post was to get outsider's perspective to see if I was overreacting to my partner's behaviours. The feedback I've been given has been mixed.

[amaysngrace]

You’re ruminating over a woman he had a crush on five years ago? Then get upset when his dad now thinks you’re the jealous type?

 

Well yea, being fixed on a person from before you even dated the man is very much being a jealous type.

 

You also say email is ineffective yet admit that was how you’ve chosen to communicate with him most recently.

 

Are you purposely trying to sabotage your relationship?

 

And the having your baby as a gift to another child is so fubar that I wouldn’t even want to begin to approach that other than to say it is completely and totally fubar.

 

Are you seeing a counselor on a regular basis just for you?

[Dandelioness]

Here's one micro-example of what Bailey's talking about:

 

 

 

If he doesn't hold the child carrier exactly the right way, you're claiming parental alienation. In almost every situation, you assume the worst and ascribe to him the basest, selfish and most negative emotions and/or motivations possible. I have a higher opinion of some people I actively dislike than you seem to have of your husband. According to you, he's manipulative, deceitful, selfish, narcissistic, conniving, lecherous and disloyal.

 

And guess what - you may be right. Which begs the simple question why you'd stay and raise two young children with such a poor excuse of a husband and father?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Still not understanding. I explained a situation that occurred a few times to a member who had shared a similar scenerio. How's that reacting?

 

I get you don't understand how that would play out without being present in the moment. I can assure you, it had nothing to do with not "carrying the carrier the right way". It was deliberate and a physical barrier he created when I'd approach my baby to share a moment with - a body block, a turn-over. Parental alienation? That may very well be correct.

 

Why am I staying? These scenarios don't play out every single day of our lives. We have plenty of good times, that's why. My family is worth fighting for. So out of this thread, we've booked an appointment for counseling; we had face-to-face conversations about it (twice); and are looking at ourselves and our situation realistically. Not just him but myself as well. And because of your comment, we've discussed about my legal separation/divorce issue since we hadn't talked about it since the beginning of our relationship. So thank you for that. Things are being dealt with in real life.

 

If things don't improve, I will leave. Now is just not the time for that.

[Dandelioness]

You’re ruminating over a woman he had a crush on five years ago? Then get upset when his dad now thinks you’re the jealous type?

 

Well yea, being fixed on a person from before you even dated the man is very much being a jealous type.

 

You also say email is ineffective yet admit that was how you’ve chosen to communicate with him most recently.

 

Are you purposely trying to sabotage your relationship?

 

And the having your baby as a gift to another child is so fubar that I wouldn’t even want to begin to approach that other than to say it is completely and totally fubar.

 

Are you seeing a counselor on a regular basis just for you?

 

Incorrect. 'He' claimed the crush was 5 years ago. Judging by his most recent actions around her, I suspect he may still have a crush on her. I say so because she's one of the women he tracks. Understand that until 2 days ago, he swore he did not have a crush on her ever, and that she was just an ex student from his school (years back). He finally admitted after 5 years. Your time line is off.

 

As for his dad, he told him I was upset about the "people watching" not because he's been tracking women's privates. After I demonstrated to him what it looked like, he, too, said it was disrespectful and apologized. I didn't say his dad thinks I'm jealous. I was saying that his version of the problem would suggest I was just the jealous type rather than his behaviour being inappropriate. I probably didn't explain myself well.