I don't know how to get out of this gigantic hole I've dug myself

April 16, 2019

Most of my friends are single men or men with girlfriends/wives

They're not gonna randomly know cute, athletic, single 26 year old women with no kids

Enlarge your social circle then! Oh wait, you’re working 55 hrs per week and have no time fir that

April 16, 2019

Enlarge your social circle then! Oh wait, you’re working 55 hrs per week and have no time fir that

I have tons and tons and tons of friends

But again, what i want is very specific. My odds of randomly meeting women like that through friends is very small

April 16, 2019

I have tons and tons and tons of friends

But again, what i want is very specific. My odds of randomly meeting women like that through friends is very small

You missed my point. Having a large number of friends is not the same as having a large social circle. If you’re so adamant about meeting women of that particular body type, you should get a personal trainer certificate and work part time as one. Or you should get into hip hop dance like a previous poster suggested.

And good luck meeting a woman who loves showing off her sexy body and yet is very traditional!

April 16, 2019

You missed my point. Having a large number of friends is not the same as having a large social circle. If you’re so adamant about meeting women of that particular body type, you should get a personal trainer certificate and work part time as one. Or you should get into hip hop dance like a previous poster suggested.

And good luck meeting a woman who loves showing off her sexy body and yet is very traditional!

I want a woman with a sexy body who is sweet, classy, well mannered

That's how i am. I look like a football player but I'm very easy going and i take pride in treating people great.

April 16, 2019

I gotta be a little more honest here though. There are a lot of women interested in me - i had this 38 year old customer of mine today who was blatantly flirting with me, had another 34 year old customer who obviously likes me but i can't date women that old because i don't want kids for like 5 years. I had this really cute Latina girl text me today but she has a kid, i can't do a single mom

I want a girl my whole family will be proud off that will also turn me on sexually and be like my best friend.

April 16, 2019

Why not just go on a date with one of those women? It doesn't mean you need to marry them. And geez, 34 isn't that old. Maybe that woman doesn't want to have kids for a few years. It isn't unusual at all for women to have kids in their late 30s these days.

Dating will give you confidence. You don't have to think about getting married when you go out with someone. Just chill out and you'll eventually meet someone you do want to settle down with.

April 16, 2019

I gotta be a little more honest here though. There are a lot of women interested in me - i had this 38 year old customer of mine today who was blatantly flirting with me, had another 34 year old customer who obviously likes me but i can't date women that old because i don't want kids for like 5 years. I had this really cute Latina girl text me today but she has a kid, i can't do a single mom

Hmmm. So really it's just getting this level of interest from a girl that you really want. I'd say just keep at it then - if you aren't being too fussy/trying to date out of your league then the stars will align eventually.

You do seem to have a lot of deal breakers - age, tats, kids (this one's more understandable). If you're getting good attention already then perhaps a bit more flexibility may get you there. You're clearly not trying to be a player or anything, so that's a positive IMO.

April 16, 2019

Most of my friends are single men or men with girlfriends/wives ...

Okay. And they and their wives and GF's won't fix you up. Why? You need to know why so you can fix whatever it is.

They have siblings, cousins, neighbors, friends and friends of friends, women they work with, etc.

Before the internet, in the days of yore, this is how we met people and it remains the best way to do it.

April 16, 2019

Okay. And they and their wives and GF's won't fix you up. Why? You need to know why so you can fix whatever it is.

They have siblings, cousins, neighbors, friends and friends of friends, women they work with, etc.

Before the internet, in the days of yore, this is how we met people and it remains the best way to do it.

Yea and how many of those girls are cute, classy, athletic and toned, 22 to 30 year old single girls with no kids?

You guys have to understand my type is very specific. I'm not gonna stumble into it randomly. I think i have to cold approach and just accept the huge rejection rate as part of the game

April 16, 2019

I've already maximized every aspect of my appearance - face, body, fashion sense as much as I possibly can. I dress extremely nice, I'm in great shape and my grooming and skincare is about as good as possible without going into that homosexual territory- i still make sure I look very masculine

I don't think A-rod is good looking at all. I'm much better looking than him and I'm not even handsome enough. The only guy I've ever been out with who did well with approaching women looked like a male model - he had that perfect male model facial structure. No matter how much i maximize my looks I'll never get to that and that's about what you need nowadays for online dating/approaching women at bars and what not

No, this is not accurate. You are focused on looks. Many women are not focused on looks to this degree you imagine.

Personality is actually a bigger deal to most women, though naturally there are superficial people of both genders. Please be aware though, because a woman is hot-looking does not mean her first and main criteria in a man is his looks or money. Usually it is personality, as long as he passes the minimum in looks for her standard (which is not the Olympian standard you think it is).

I think some of the earlier posts are right - you are carrying an impression inside you that you (as a person) are not sufficient to be attractive. You go on and on about your looks, physique, money, cars, house. You are wrong to think that is the magic formula most women are after, in my opinion & observation.

This also means that you value a woman's outside much more than her inside. Women can tell that this is your view of them. They also have a natural impression that since this is your most valued criteria for humans, you are untrustworthy to be developing your own inside - compassion, patience, generosity of spirit, philosophy of life.

Until recently I was engaged to a younger-than-me model. She also teaches modeling. I met a few models in the time we were together. They actually complained in different ways that guys who hit on them were sharp dressers, or good looking, or had money, but no depth. The guys may have had depth, but they lead with superficial features, so the women didn't get the impression the guys were interested in themselves or these women beyond their looks.

Which, to be frank, sounds exactly like how you are talking about yourself and who you are seeking. You have yet to mention you'd like someone caring, funny, intelligent, or what ever. You are really obsessed with appearance, and believe it or not, a lot of models and some percentage of higher income strippers have advanced degrees, and actually do become mothers, lawyers, bankers, etc. after their 20's. If you don't show you have an appreciation for what they are worth in the rest of life, they will see you as shallow as you seem to be from what you're writing here.

You don't have to change, but I think it would help you understand what is going on if you will digest this facet of your worldview and self-view.

Best Wishes.

April 16, 2019

Everything sunlight said.

I have some incredibly beautiful women friends. They were the type that walked into a place and had men falling over themselves for them. One was in Miss America, another a football team cheerleader. They’re also the entire package and have degrees, careers, etc.

Their husbands? Or prior boyfriends? Average looking, smart, kind and so easy to get along with. They steered clear of the guys trying to be “impressive” or the guys who seemed too eager to be all about their physical looks.

Men judge a LOT more on looks then women do. Unless you are really fat or smell - if a man can dress nicely, is well groomed and looks healthy? Personality will get him a lot further then a jawline.

Women aren’t objects. Or trophies. And the way you talk? You’re looking for a cute athletic trophy nice enough to take home to Mom and Dad.

You may think you aren’t “showing” this, but I bet you are. And guess what? The amount you make isn’t going to overcome personality nor how “nice” you may be.

You need to find out why your friend’s gfs aren’t trying to hook you up with THEIR friends. There IS a reason. Find out what that reason is and fix it.

April 16, 2019

No, this is not accurate. You are focused on looks. Many women are not focused on looks to this degree you imagine.

Personality is actually a bigger deal to most women, though naturally there are superficial people of both genders. Please be aware though, because a woman is hot-looking does not mean her first and main criteria in a man is his looks or money. Usually it is personality, as long as he passes the minimum in looks for her standard (which is not the Olympian standard you think it is).

I think some of the earlier posts are right - you are carrying an impression inside you that you (as a person) are not sufficient to be attractive. You go on and on about your looks, physique, money, cars, house. You are wrong to think that is the magic formula most women are after, in my opinion & observation.

This also means that you value a woman's outside much more than her inside. Women can tell that this is your view of them. They also have a natural impression that since this is your most valued criteria for humans, you are untrustworthy to be developing your own inside - compassion, patience, generosity of spirit, philosophy of life.

Until recently I was engaged to a younger-than-me model. She also teaches modeling. I met a few models in the time we were together. They actually complained in different ways that guys who hit on them were sharp dressers, or good looking, or had money, but no depth. The guys may have had depth, but they lead with superficial features, so the women didn't get the impression the guys were interested in themselves or these women beyond their looks.

Which, to be frank, sounds exactly like how you are talking about yourself and who you are seeking. You have yet to mention you'd like someone caring, funny, intelligent, or what ever. You are really obsessed with appearance, and believe it or not, a lot of models and some percentage of higher income strippers have advanced degrees, and actually do become mothers, lawyers, bankers, etc. after their 20's. If you don't show you have an appreciation for what they are worth in the rest of life, they will see you as shallow as you seem to be from what you're writing here.

You don't have to change, but I think it would help you understand what is going on if you will digest this facet of your worldview and self-view.

Best Wishes.

What are you talking about? I've mentioned tons and tons of important personality traits in a woman - i want somebody who is classy, intelligent, sweet, well mannered, loyal, family oriented, feminine. These are all similar traits to mine

And i agree with you that personality is huge to women, its huge for me too. The issue is you have to get a chance to showcase that. I'm not getting any chances with anybody dateable. I haven't been on a date in 3 years

My main point is that most women are not open to dating a man they meet randomly unless he's a male model and i don't meet women in any sort of natural, daily routine way so what the hell do I do? I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place

April 16, 2019

Everything sunlight said.

I have some incredibly beautiful women friends. They were the type that walked into a place and had men falling over themselves for them. One was in Miss America, another a football team cheerleader. They’re also the entire package and have degrees, careers, etc.

Their husbands? Or prior boyfriends? Average looking, smart, kind and so easy to get along with. They steered clear of the guys trying to be “impressive” or the guys who seemed too eager to be all about their physical looks.

Men judge a LOT more on looks then women do. Unless you are really fat or smell - if a man can dress nicely, is well groomed and looks healthy? Personality will get him a lot further then a jawline.

Women aren’t objects. Or trophies. And the way you talk? You’re looking for a cute athletic trophy nice enough to take home to Mom and Dad.

You may think you aren’t “showing” this, but I bet you are. And guess what? The amount you make isn’t going to overcome personality nor how “nice” you may be.

You need to find out why your friend’s gfs aren’t trying to hook you up with THEIR friends. There IS a reason. Find out what that reason is and fix it.

I've met a lot of my friends' female acquaintances, 99% of them are nowhere near dateable. I met a couple 2 weeks ago - 1 was chubby, 1 was not cute at all. I don't meet anybody dateable in my routine.

As far as your comment about their husbands. I guarantee you they met them through social circle/work/friends. They're not approaching them at a bar/gym. Public random approaches like that are incredibly hard and that's my only option right now.

April 16, 2019

I do think it's probable that more women gravitate to a pretty face, but there's all kinds out there. I agree with you A-Rod isn't attractive to me, but I'm just not into muscley jocks. If I was, I guess I'd be attracted to a lot of them. He has something going for him and that elevates him to where he can date whoever.

You definitely are hung up on a certain physique. I mean, there actually are a lot of women who roughly fit the overall physique you describe, but there's way more whose booty and legs aren't solid muscle, which seems to be what you want. So that means she pretty much has to be some sort of athlete, whether tennis, soccer, or dancing. Being so narrow in what you like is going to limit you because just because they're what you're like doesn't mean you're what they like, so the field becomes tiny. Then narrow it some more to they can't be gay or arrogant but must be just that nice personality you want, and again, your field is very very small. So it's no wonder you're having problems.

I met a new waitress at lunch (I know you hate waitresses) who looked a lot like J-Lo in the face, but see, you wouldn't have liked her because she wasn't tiny-waisted with muscles everywhere.

You do realize that no woman is likely to keep up the exercise routine to the point she stays built like a weightlifter or dancer, right? I mean, eventually, that will change. I'm curious how you will adapt.

April 16, 2019

I've met a lot of my friends' female acquaintances, 99% of them are nowhere near dateable. I met a couple 2 weeks ago - 1 was chubby, 1 was not cute at all. I don't meet anybody dateable in my routine.

As far as your comment about their husbands. I guarantee you they met them through social circle/work/friends. They're not approaching them at a bar/gym. Public random approaches like that are incredibly hard and that's my only option right now.

You've been single for 3 years, right? Do you think maybe, just maybe, it is time to change either your desired demographic or your desired means of approaching women?

You've been given great suggestions by many people here, yet you seem to want to knock down ALL suggestions and just insist that you can't get a date.

Is that a defense mechanism?

April 16, 2019

I do think it's probable that more women gravitate to a pretty face, but there's all kinds out there. I agree with you A-Rod isn't attractive to me, but I'm just not into muscley jocks. If I was, I guess I'd be attracted to a lot of them. He has something going for him and that elevates him to where he can date whoever.

You definitely are hung up on a certain physique. I mean, there actually are a lot of women who roughly fit the overall physique you describe, but there's way more whose booty and legs aren't solid muscle, which seems to be what you want. So that means she pretty much has to be some sort of athlete, whether tennis, soccer, or dancing. Being so narrow in what you like is going to limit you because just because they're what you're like doesn't mean you're what they like, so the field becomes tiny. Then narrow it some more to they can't be gay or arrogant but must be just that nice personality you want, and again, your field is very very small. So it's no wonder you're having problems.

I met a new waitress at lunch (I know you hate waitresses) who looked a lot like J-Lo in the face, but see, you wouldn't have liked her because she wasn't tiny-waisted with muscles everywhere.

You do realize that no woman is likely to keep up the exercise routine to the point she stays built like a weightlifter or dancer, right? I mean, eventually, that will change. I'm curious how you will adapt.

I want somebody who loves fitness and will look good long term. I have a Latina female co worker who is married with kids who is like 36 and she's beautiful with a great body

Me personally, i plan on looking great and being in great shape until I'm 90. I love fitness and working out. I workout about 6 days a week

And again, i have all the confidence in the world that I will do great as a boyfriend/husband/dad but I have to get the opportunity. I'm not getting any opportunities

April 16, 2019

You've been single for 3 years, right? Do you think maybe, just maybe, it is time to change either your desired demographic or your desired means of approaching women?

You've been given great suggestions by many people here, yet you seem to want to knock down ALL suggestions and just insist that you can't get a date.

Is that a defense mechanism?

How do I change my desired means of approaching women? You guys keep recommending that i meet somebody through friends and I'm telling you, I meet people constantly and nobody knows any single, quality dateable women for me. You guys make it seem like I'm not trying. I try to meet new people constantly.

I go to clubs, parties, bars, concerts, sports events, festivals, vacations 12 times a year to all sorts of beautiful places

What else is left for me to do?

Btw I'm 30 and have never had a girlfriend. I've slept with maybe 12 women but none of them were anywhere near dating material (way too old, had kids, not cute, not in shape). I'm done sleeping with anybody who is not dateable. I want a wife/girlfriend

April 16, 2019

I want somebody who loves fitness and will look good long term. I have a Latina female co worker who is married with kids who is like 36 and she's beautiful with a great body

Me personally, i plan on looking great and being in great shape until I'm 90. I love fitness and working out. I workout about 6 days a week

And again, i have all the confidence in the world that I will do great as a boyfriend/husband/dad but I have to get the opportunity. I'm not getting any opportunities

That's great, but please realize that as women age, their bodies change. After a kid or two, it's hard to keep it all together, especially. Those people on reality shows are spending hundreds of thousands on plastic surgery to stay looking thin after having kids. Kim K, without tucks and sucks and rib removal, would have been a fatassed momiger years ago.

I hope you find someone who works out and keeps it together as long as possible, but I worry you're so rigid you can't accept a post-birth body. A fit person will usually snap back for awhile, but at a certain age, the skin elasticity won't snap back no matter what.

April 16, 2019

That's great, but please realize that as women age, their bodies change. After a kid or two, it's hard to keep it all together, especially. Those people on reality shows are spending hundreds of thousands on plastic surgery to stay looking thin after having kids. Kim K, without tucks and sucks and rib removal, would have been a fatassed momiger years ago.

I hope you find someone who works out and keeps it together as long as possible, but I worry you're so rigid you can't accept a post-birth body. A fit person will usually snap back for awhile, but at a certain age, the skin elasticity won't snap back no matter what.

There's a certain level of regression that's expected but i have lots of female relatives in my family who are 40s, 50s and 60s who are beautiful and none of them have the fitness and overall personal care knowledge that i have.

I just want somebody who puts in same effort that I do

April 16, 2019

Many here have disagreed with you hypothesis. Assuming your hypothesis is correct, then you have several options (most of them have been mentioned):

-Get into modeling, personal training or hip hop dancing semi-professionally;

-Get high-end professional help with your appearance and demeanor;

-Make peace with the fact that you’ll be alone, at least for a number of years;

-In case you haven’t already done so, check out some of ZA Dater’s threads

-Keep creating different user names and posting the same issue over and over again, like what you’ve been doing here!

p.s. First, I do agree that certain men have an advantage meeting women as strangers, namely those men with charisma, which you lack seriously. It has nothing to do with their objective looks per se. Second, I’m not trying to be judgmental here, but I remember reading a book written by an experienced car salesman when I was shopping for my first car years ago. He actually likened his own profession to prostitution. While he was exaggerating and trying to be self-deprecating, I suspect there can be a bit of self esteem issue here.

Good luck!

April 16, 2019

Many here have disagreed with you hypothesis. Assuming your hypothesis is correct, then you have several options (most of them have been mentioned):

-Get into modeling, personal training or hip hop dancing semi-professionally;

-Get high-end professional help with your appearance and demeanor;

-Make peace with the fact that you’ll be alone, at least for a number of years;

-In case you haven’t already done so, check out some of ZA Dater’s threads

-Keep creating different user names and posting the same issue over and over again, like what you’ve been doing here!

p.s. First, I do agree that certain men have an advantage meeting women as strangers, namely those men with charisma, which you lack seriously. It has nothing to do with their objective looks per se. Second, I’m not trying to be judgmental here, but I remember reading a book written by an experienced car salesman when I was shopping for my first car years ago. He actually likened his own profession to prostitution. While he was exaggerating and trying to be self-deprecating, I suspect there can be a bit of self esteem issue here.

Good luck!

I've gone out and to social events with tons and tons and tons of good looking, successful, very athletic men with good social skills. I don't hang out with anybody awkward - all my friends are very likable and charming

None of them have done well with approaching women except the 1 guy who looks like a male model

You need to be top 0.1% of men to be good enough for approaching women without a natural introduction. That's how difficult dating is

And I'm not some social hermit. I go to the trendiest bars, clubs; concerts, sports events, vacations 12 times a year, etc... etc... etc... these girls nowadays are ridiculous with their standards

April 16, 2019

You have strategically dodged certain questions.

According to your figures and logics, the top 30% of women are competing for the top 0.1% of men. So these attractive women must be whining and crying like you!

Edited April 16, 2019 by JuneL

April 16, 2019

You have strategically dodged certain questions.

According to your figures and logics, the top 30% of women are competing for the top 0.1% of men. So these attractive women must be whining and crying like you!

Those women have a million guys gnawing for them through social circle and work and online dating

I get a lot of femake attention but they're never anything decent. The decent women are light years away

April 16, 2019

Those women have a million guys gnawing for them through social circle and work and online dating

I get a lot of femake attention but they're never anything decent. The decent women are light years away

It doesn’t matter they got hundreds of messages online, if none came from that male model (500x0.1%=0.5<1).

The vast majority of these attractive women should be whining and crying like you, as even with 500 messages, there’s no guarantee a single one is from a top 0.1% male model (according to you, they will only give chance to the top 0.1% male models).

April 16, 2019

Brother, you need to first change your attitude and grow some humility. If you were all you are saying you are cracked up to be, you would have a woman interested in you. Even if you're a 7 in looks, if you make up for it with charisma, a sense of humor, and listening skills, that equals a 10.

Here's some random tips.

Learn to small talk.

Learn to smile genuinely. Watch yourself laughing at a funny memory that always cracks you up. That genuine happiness is a look you should practice and make your norm.

Be non-threatening/non-creepy. (Continue) dressing well. Always have on nice shoes!

Memorize some lame jokes that you can tell on the fly. Watch some stand up comedy routines and steal some from the masters.

IF you can bring ANYTHING of value to a woman, be it humor, a genuine compliment or curiosity, interesting conversation, etc, don't be afraid to approach. if you've got nothing, you will not succeed. BUT, if you can provide just a modicum of value, you can and should approach with that in mind.

Hang out at the bars. Actually choose one that has your preferred clientele and make it your home. You don't have to get drunk. This is by far the easiest way to meet someone as they're looking for the same, or at least some companionship. Don't go with your buddies. Go by yourself. Trust me on this one. Park yourself and talk to people. Anyone. About anything.

I am 42, balding with a graying beard, live in a crap townhome and have two kids I have 50 percent of the time. I am in good shape and am tall and I make great money (though I only see 1/2 of it). I control what I can control.

I have been divorced for almost 3 years and during that time have dated women I would consider 8's and above. None had kids, which actually I would have preferred that they did, because most of them broke up with me because they couldn't spend enough time with me. I need a woman with kids of her own because they'd "get it."

The first 6 months I sat on my couch in pathetic wondering why none of the facebook likes or the right swipes were working out, none of the hanging out with buddies at the bar getting trashed, none of the staring at women wishing they'd give me a "signal" was working. I finally came up with the reason by looking at it from the hot woman's perspective. What value would she be getting from a loser like me??? Why in the world would, with all the choices they have online and in real life, would she settle for me?

This ain't the movies. You must be a valuable use of their time. No one's going to see you as some "diamond in the rough great guy." You are too hung up on what these women will do for you over what you can do for them. Change your approach.

Just my opinion and I could be wrong. I am no online dating coach, just a guy who has had success with women by changing his own approach.

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I don't know how to get out of this gigantic hole I've dug myself

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