elaine567 Posted April 8, 2019 Posted April 8, 2019 I sometimes try painting the OW as a sociopath that is using all this purely to her interest. I think a portion of that is true. But I also like to think there is (was?) something else going on, not just self interest. That is your ego talking. You are not some old guy being duped by an ambitious younger women, no, you are two people in love held apart by circumstance, a tragic love story... You cannot bear to think she may be playing you to get what she wants, that would wound you to the core, so you put that to one side. You rationalise all that away... Your ego does not allow you to countenance that thought. She MUST love you... else you are just an easy mark... It is the trap so many OWs fall into too. Their ego keeps them "in love", else they need to face the fact that they are being used. They prefer instead to listen to the "love story". That keeps their ego intact.
anika99 Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 You think your actions are not hurting your wife. Be realistic, she flat out told you shean plainly see your desperation to see the OW. Go to an infidelity site and read some BS stories, the one here is not that active, gain some insight into their hell when their instincts are denied. Most state the relief and validation they felt at not being crazy. Exactly this. OP what you are doing to your wife with your lying and denials is exceptionally cruel and heartless.
BaileyB Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 I should be tough and tell her not to come back to the office after her trip. This is what I should do. Play it rough and do the surgery. You try that... see how she makes your professional life a living hell. One way to make sure I do this is to confess to my wife I have strong feelings to the OW. My wife reaction will be to ask me to kick her out from our life, immediately. She would not leave room for excuses. No excuses - including your own. Are you sure she would ask you to kick her out of your life... or, will she perhaps ask you to leave her life? Pack your bags. Change the locks. Call the lawyer...
Author ManMar Posted April 9, 2019 Author Posted April 9, 2019 That is your ego talking. You are not some old guy being duped by an ambitious younger women, no, you are two people in love held apart by circumstance, a tragic love story... You cannot bear to think she may be playing you to get what she wants, that would wound you to the core, so you put that to one side. You rationalise all that away... Your ego does not allow you to countenance that thought. She MUST love you... else you are just an easy mark... It is the trap so many OWs fall into too. Their ego keeps them "in love", else they need to face the fact that they are being used. They prefer instead to listen to the "love story". That keeps their ego intact. I hear you but I dont share such a cynic view, and I dont think it is my ego looking for a justification.
Author ManMar Posted April 9, 2019 Author Posted April 9, 2019 Day 1 of this two week agreed NC. My mental process has two faces: - The rational side of me is beginning to accept that this story is over, I am starting to think on my life after it. Getting into the idea that she will be out of my life very soon. This NC should be the first step, I have to use it with this mindset, as a first step to get her out of my system. I should end the NC with a phone conversation with her in good terms, on calling everything off and discussing how we implement parting ways in practice. We should not get too personal, any physical contact is part of history. - The emotional side of me is still in negotiation with reality. A double life is not something that I would consider, the only alternative is we both agree to be together. I do know this doesn't make sense, for a number of reasons. This emotional side tells me to break the NC at some point, to generate expectation and meet in two weeks time. Most likely, all the tension and drama will heat up the encounter, it has happened before, even more so now that we will be one week before she gets married. The weight of reality is so obvious, that I am now 75% rational 25% emotional. Still 25% is a lot, given my lousy track record in this story when I've had to rely on my willpower. NEXT STEPS - The ****ing wedding. I just dont know how to handle it. There is no way I can unilaterally cancel without making it obvious. My business partner with his wife are coming from another country, we are meeting a couple of days before to spend time together, with my wife and kid also coming and attending the ****ing wedding. I will be physically sick, my wife will be looking at every little move I do and at my facial expressions and attitude. It is even possible my business partner feels there is something going on and will look at me for confirmation, he is an extremely smart guy, very difficult to deceive. It is even possible my wife tells my business partner, they know each other since they were kids. One thing is for sure: there is no way I will be able to act it out as if I was indifferent. I would need to be a world class actor for doing that, I am far from it. The only way not to go is to tell my wife that I simply can't, given that she knows I have some feelings, but that would trigger a deeper conversation that I dont want to have. In any case, I would still need to figure what to tell my business partner, who is coming from thousands of miles away. Seems to me I am trapped into attending unless I fake some sort of last minute illness, which would not be easy given how many eyeballs I will have on me. - The OW departure from the company. I need to decide on how handle it as clean as possible, avoiding an emotional reaction on my side. When thinking about it coldly, I believe the best course of action is to discuss it with the OW, so that she does not have any hopes that she is going to return to things as usual. Then, postpone the actual implementation to when she is back from the ****ing honeymoon. - My near and medium term future. I need to heal from this and at the same time recover the relationship with my wife. I cannot handle the details now, I have too much on my plate, but I have a clear goal in this regard.
elaine567 Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 I hear you but I dont share such a cynic view, and I dont think it is my ego looking for a justification. Ok, since this is such a tragic love story then why is she, as a single woman supposedly in love with you, not telling her fiance it is all over and then spending her time convincing you to leave your wife... NO, she isn't doing that because that is NOT what she wants, she wants to marry her bf, she probably does indeed love him, and at the same time have your "special" support for her career on the side. She is walking the tightrope at the moment, one wrong move and it could all end up a bloody mess on the floor, but if she can pull it off she has it made. She becomes a married woman with a great job too... nothing need change... perfect! That is until she can find a better position... No-one more supportive and willing to go the extra mile than a guy who is in love with her, but cannot really have all of her... He is always trying his hardest to "win her hand"... 1
Author ManMar Posted April 9, 2019 Author Posted April 9, 2019 Ok, since this is such a tragic love story then why is she, as a single woman supposedly in love with you, not telling her fiance it is all over and then spending her time convincing you to leave your wife... NO, she isn't doing that because that is NOT what she wants, she wants to marry her bf, she probably does indeed love him, and at the same time have your "special" support for her career on the side. She is walking the tightrope at the moment, one wrong move and it could all end up a bloody mess on the floor, but if she can pull it off she has it made. She becomes a married woman with a great job too... nothing need change... perfect! That is until she can find a better position... No-one more supportive and willing to go the extra mile than a guy who is in love with her, but cannot really have all of her... He is always trying his hardest to "win her hand"... I really love your comments! Things are never black and white and I do think there is some of what you have just described. In fact, you are right, words and actions are pointing in two different directions.
Author ManMar Posted April 9, 2019 Author Posted April 9, 2019 Ok, since this is such a tragic love story then why is she, as a single woman supposedly in love with you, not telling her fiance it is all over and then spending her time convincing you to leave your wife... NO, she isn't doing that because that is NOT what she wants, she wants to marry her bf, she probably does indeed love him, and at the same time have your "special" support for her career on the side. She is walking the tightrope at the moment, one wrong move and it could all end up a bloody mess on the floor, but if she can pull it off she has it made. She becomes a married woman with a great job too... nothing need change... perfect! That is until she can find a better position... No-one more supportive and willing to go the extra mile than a guy who is in love with her, but cannot really have all of her... He is always trying his hardest to "win her hand"... Btw, given your view, what would you do in you were in my shoes?
elaine567 Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 Usually I am not really a fan of telling and blowing up a family if it can be helped but here, your wife I guess already knows and just needs you to be honest with her. You have seriously backed yourself into a corner here, so the only way out I see is to tell your wife and take it from there. As for the wedding, I don't think you should go as whatever happens you will likely make a fool of yourself. Crying in the shrubbery is never a good look and your wife and probably your kid, will know something is up. As you say you are no world class actor, so how are you going to pull that one off? A big scene from some quarter, is definitely a possibility here too. “Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.” Sir Walter Scott 1
pepperbird Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 I disagree. My wife has the intuition of something going on, not the confirmation of total romance that has being going on under her nose. That would hurt her really deep. op, if you want to kill any love your wife may have for you, just keep doing what you're doing. Many WS don't realize that the affair (painful as it may be) isn't the worst part of cheating. The worst part is the lying. Your wife suspects something, and it sounds like she has flat out asked you for the truth. Right now, you have a golden window of opportunity. Yes, it will hurt her to know the truth, but if you are honest, she may just be able to work past it. If you continue to lie, and she catches you ( there is a high chance of that happening) she will never, ever trust you again. Why do you continue to protect your OW over your wife?
BaileyB Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 I hear you but I dont share such a cynic view, and I dont think it is my ego looking for a justification. Oh dude, that comment shows such a lack of self awareness, it’s almost unbelievable.
pepperbird Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 op, if this is how your ow shows "love", then she, well, is a nasty person. She's agreed to marry one man while she was shagging another, then invited the guy she is cheating with, as well as his wife and kid, to her wedding to watch her marry the poor guy who she's cheating on. She'll get up in front of her friends and family and make some very public promises, accept gifts, ask people to spend money to come in from out of town ( and even another country), dance with her new husband, enjoy their wedding night and honeymoon together all while lying to his ( and the guests, minster, whoever elses) face with not a trace of guilt? do you think she'll be looking at you wistfully, crying insiede at what could have been? hardly. She'll probably have the same look on her face as the proverbial cat who swallowed the canary. What kind of a person does that? Really, ask yourself that. After that ask yourself if she can do all of that lying and successfully pull it off, then why in hell do you think you can trust her one iota? She loves and thrives on drama, and where none exists, she creates it. Once she's chewed you up and spit you out ( and maybe even your company...remember how much she lies to get her own way) she'll move on. She will just need to drain you dry first. 2
Author ManMar Posted April 9, 2019 Author Posted April 9, 2019 Usually I am not really a fan of telling and blowing up a family if it can be helped but here, your wife I guess already knows and just needs you to be honest with her. You have seriously backed yourself into a corner here, so the only way out I see is to tell your wife and take it from there. As for the wedding, I don't think you should go as whatever happens you will likely make a fool of yourself. Crying in the shrubbery is never a good look and your wife and probably your kid, will know something is up. As you say you are no world class actor, so how are you going to pull that one off? A big scene from some quarter, is definitely a possibility here too. “Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.” Sir Walter Scott I understand the empathy with my wife and the persistence on advising telling her. However, making my wife suffer just to balance my lack of willpower is not even ethical, imo. I have to sort this mess up myself. As to making a fool of myself, I am not the type of guy prone to making scenes, and I have absolutely no intention on that front. Having said that, it is true that I am emotionally messed up now, there is a risk I cant cope with the situation, although I think I will. It will kill me inside, that is for sure, and my wife will definitely notice. That is the issue, more than me having a nervous breakdown. I dont want to be in that situation though, I still need to figure out how I can avoid it.
Author ManMar Posted April 9, 2019 Author Posted April 9, 2019 op, Why do you continue to protect your OW over your wife? I am not protecting the OW in that sense. Not telling my wife is more about not causing unnecessary pain. I know you think otherwise, but I do think it she is better off not knowing the details.
BaileyB Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 I am not protecting the OW in that sense. Not telling my wife is more about not causing unnecessary pain. I know you think otherwise, but I do think it she is better off not knowing the details. It’s not the telling that causes her pain, it’s the cheating husband who is STILL thinking about the OW. And when she learns the truth, because it’s probably only a matter of time, it will be the cheating and the lying that causes her pain. Let’s not fool ourselves...
Starswillshine Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 I am not protecting the OW in that sense. Not telling my wife is more about not causing unnecessary pain. I know you think otherwise, but I do think it she is better off not knowing the details. You are NOT to decide this. That is for her to decide. As a BS.... the worst pain was pretty much knowing but having my husband deny, deny, deny. I could never trust him again after that and at times felt my safety at risk. As extreme as that may sound, it is so very hard to live a life not knowing which way is up. It is the constant lies that kill a person/relationship. The ONLY way to insure you have a healthy marriage is to be truthful. Otherwise.... you'll crash and burn.
elaine567 Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 I understand the empathy with my wife and the persistence on advising telling her. However, making my wife suffer just to balance my lack of willpower is not even ethical, imo. I have to sort this mess up myself. As to making a fool of myself, I am not the type of guy prone to making scenes, and I have absolutely no intention on that front... The scene I was envisaging was not you going nuts, it is not in your best interests to do so, but this is a huge "secret" and you being so close to it may not really be aware of just how many people know all about it... whilst they may normally hold their tongue, they may not be so keen to see the OM attending her wedding... As for your wife suffering, she is already suffering... her husband is lying to her and she knows it. 1
BaileyB Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 The simple fact that you think you have the right to make this decision for your wife and withhold the truth of her marriage from her is all about ego and promoting your own self interest. 2
Author ManMar Posted April 9, 2019 Author Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) op, if this is how your ow shows "love", then she, well, is a nasty person. She's agreed to marry one man while she was shagging another, then invited the guy she is cheating with, as well as his wife and kid, to her wedding to watch her marry the poor guy who she's cheating on. She'll get up in front of her friends and family and make some very public promises, accept gifts, ask people to spend money to come in from out of town ( and even another country), dance with her new husband, enjoy their wedding night and honeymoon together all while lying to his ( and the guests, minster, whoever elses) face with not a trace of guilt? do you think she'll be looking at you wistfully, crying insiede at what could have been? hardly. She'll probably have the same look on her face as the proverbial cat who swallowed the canary. What kind of a person does that? Really, ask yourself that. After that ask yourself if she can do all of that lying and successfully pull it off, then why in hell do you think you can trust her one iota? She loves and thrives on drama, and where none exists, she creates it. Once she's chewed you up and spit you out ( and maybe even your company...remember how much she lies to get her own way) she'll move on. She will just need to drain you dry first. The description is painfully accurate, she's been doing exactly that. She does not want us on the wedding though, it only has downside for her having me around that day. I dont think she will be crying inside for us. I think she is marrying because she wants to. I believe she will have a big smile all the time. Seeing that will both kill me and serve a reality check. It is the only positive aspect of attending the ****ing wedding: the therapeutic shock. Let me give you an example, the reason we have the last fight: the whole weekend she went off partying with her best friends, they have been together since the were little girls. Her third bachelorette party (that I am aware of). I asked her: have you told them about us? the answer was NO, and I said, why? they are your best friends, how can you not tell them that you are marrying that guy while in love with someone else? and she said: they know I have strong doubts with my BF, so they know the truth. I was really upset, and told her that a partial true is also a lie, that when you make people assume things based on the information you provide and you hide important information, you are lying, regardless of what words you use to describe reality, you are making a misrepresentation. She did not answer when I called her a lier. She just said that she cant take more drama anymore, that we should stop. I told her the drama comes from the ****ing wedding, for the farce and the circus, not from me. Anyway, many words that took us nowhere. She was relieved that I asked her for this two week period of NC. She cant bear the double life of saying ILY to me and at the same time getting married. So to some extent I am playing her game by providing her some time off me. So as to the trust. No, I dont trust her.I assume she has been lying to me too. As to the drama, she is an adrenaline addict, I am too. But the current drama is not fun anymore. We are both unhappy. She wants the fun adrenaline, not this type. Finally, it is hard to admit, but I do think this would have been over if it was not for the big picture implications: that I am who I am, the job itself and the possibility that I tell her BF. Tbh, when I look at the evidence, I feel stupidly naif. It is funny how the brain works, because most of the time I close my eyes to these and other no good looking facts. I only consider the amazing moments and the feelings when we are together. Maybe she is the best actress, but I really dont think those moments are fake. For some reason, my emotions grab only those feelings and forget about what facts are really telling. I think I have a problem myself. She might be many nasty things, but the problem that I need to figure out is on my side. I am not going to change her. Anyway, the psychological analysis is interesting, but from a practical perspective: what would you do? Edited April 9, 2019 by ManMar
Timshel Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 Pressed for time but want to quickly add and agree with other posters; I think you should tell your wife the truth (she already knows) and tell your partner (I'm sure he suspects) and do not attend the wedding. Telling both will not only enable a final detachment from the ow....telling your partner will allow him to be of assistance should she at some point decide to draw first blood. If you don't get ahead of this with him, his hands will be tied to stand with you against accusations/legal shenanigans. I know your not worried.... Let other people assist you and give your wife the dignity of truth, she has stood by you all these years, she has more than earned it. I believe you are resisting telling because you are not ready to cut the cord. If so, divorce your wife, carry on and risk the financial pitfalls. You can't have it both ways anymore.
Amethyst68 Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 'a partial truth is also a lie' Your own words, now stop being a hypocrite and apply them to your own situation and what you are actively doing to your wife!
pepperbird Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 I am not protecting the OW in that sense. Not telling my wife is more about not causing unnecessary pain. I know you think otherwise, but I do think it she is better off not knowing the details. Ask any BS. They will almost always report that what they imagine is going on is usually far worse than the reality.
pepperbird Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 The scene I was envisaging was not you going nuts, it is not in your best interests to do so, but this is a huge "secret" and you being so close to it may not really be aware of just how many people know all about it... whilst they may normally hold their tongue, they may not be so keen to see the OM attending her wedding... . Ad to that the way weddings often go hand in hand with the overconsumption of alcohol. Who knows what tongue wagging will take place. Part of me wonders if the ow in this case may even be pushing for the op to sneak in a "quickie" at some point that day. What could be more of an adrenaline rush to her than sleeping with her OM on her wedding day?
pepperbird Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 op, lots of people are adrenaline junkies, but they don't hurt others to get their fix. They are able to empathize with others and get their "drug" some other way. I've been watching a show called "What we do in the Shadows" ( I preferred the movie, but I digress) which is a comedy about a group of vampires in the modern age trying to take over Staten Island. One of their group is an "emotional vampire" who draws energy from the emotions of others. It's meant to be funny, but there really are people like that. The paradox is that they aren't really capable of "love" but they need the people they hurt and use because this is what they need to feel alive. They hurt them because they need them. It's not a good roller coaster to be on. You're on it, and you've also asked you wife ( and your ow's fiance) to go along for the ride too. What did your wife and this poor schmuck ever do to either of you that they deserve to be treated like this?
BaileyB Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 I think you should tell your wife the truth (she already knows) and tell your partner (I'm sure he suspects) and do not attend the wedding. Telling both will not only enable a final detachment from the ow....telling your partner will allow him to be of assistance should she at some point decide to draw first blood. If you don't get ahead of this with him, his hands will be tied to stand with you against accusations/legal shenanigans. I know your not worried.... You can't have it both ways anymore. For what it’s worth, I agree completely with this. If this information ever gets out or she decides to file a sexual harassment/wrongful dismissal charge against you... you are going to be a world of trouble. You can continue to post about your OW, analyzing why she has done the things she has done, for as long as you like... If it was me, I’d be planning for the future and trying to get in front of this - if for no other reason than you may someday need to do some serious damage control.
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