Long-term problem; unable to get dates

[Garcon1986]

Try for longer conversations before you ask for the date, practice getting that emotional engagement (for me it takes around a day to see the “yeah this guy is awesome”).

[LightWave93]

Try for longer conversations before you ask for the date, practice getting that emotional engagement (for me it takes around a day to see the “yeah this guy is awesome”).

 

Not saying it doesn't work, but tried that before and usually A) They ghost because the conversation drags too long, B) They ghost when I ask for a number, C) They ghost when I try to set something up.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is...whatever tactic I choose, it doesn't work. I could show you a handful of conversations I've had today which have been lengthier, more getting to know the person (my preferred method anyway), but they all end the same.

[Garcon1986]

How about going on a weekend trip to a big city in the UK and working on your in person game exclusively for a few days.

[LightWave93]

How about going on a weekend trip to a big city in the UK and working on your in person game exclusively for a few days.

 

Because I don't have the time to do that. I work full-time, university studies etc. Plus where the hell am I going to find the confidence to do in-person game in a big city when I can't do it in my uni town?

 

Let's face it dude. It's never going to happen for me.

 

 

'n seriously, someone log into my Tinder. See for themselves the amount of effort i put in.

[some_username1]

What things? I've honestly tried everything. Building a solid career, becoming independent, being social, being giving (although that's in my nature anyway), becoming healthier, going to therapy, research, coaches, seeking advice, developing new skills, dance...

 

What MORE can I do to improve my situation? I'm in the exact same place I was in four years ago. And all those opportunities to date or have sex with young beautiful women? Gone.

 

 

 

What's the point in wasting someone's time going on 1, 2, 12 dates if at the end of it I'm not going to want a relationship?

 

I want to be a guy that women desire, so that I can have opportunities to have sex, date etc. Not limit myself to the one girl that MAY agree to date me.

 

Dear oh dear OP, are you having a bad week because you have deteriorated to the point of desperation?

 

For starters "I've tried everything" sounds deeply unattractive, like your sole motivation for doing those things was to get as many notches in your bedpost as you could out of it. You should be living for yourself, this whole desperate whining and pleading for somebody to screw you to relieve your angst is the absolute total opposite of how you should act.

 

Your sense of self worth is so tied up in how women perceive you that it hurts my eyes to read what this thread has descended into. I'm pretty sure I have said this before about 5-10 pages ago but, like most young people, you seem unable to act because you are unable to let go of your ego enough to understand what those with much more life experience are trying to tell you.

 

"I want to be a guy that women desire" - sorry, but this is laughable because it's totally the wrong way of looking at it and shows how far off track you are. Being a man that women desire is not a goal in itself- it is merely a bonus that you get for reaching a point in life where you are happy with who YOU are and if you won't be happy until you are a guy that women desire, well- you've just turned yoyr pursuit of happiness into a gordian knot that will never reach a resolution.

 

I'll give you an example to illustrate my point:

 

I was out with a friend on saturday at an alternative club. This friend wasn't dressed alterbative and normally outsiders aren't attractive to metal/goth girls who are usually attracted to the long haired dudes. But my friend is a natural, he just attracts female attention because he is a happy go lucky character who will chat to anyone and holds no judgement at all. He can connect with prince or pauper and everyone loves it. So it was no surprise when he gets chatting to some girl who gives him her number. My mate wasn't even interested because he has a wife and kids- he goes out to meet interesting people not to get laid like some sex-crazed p***y beggar. Later on this hot blonde goth gets talking to him and tries to convince to go home and talk his wife into having an open relationship. This is just a normal night out for him. Same old, same old. Now, the likes of you can I can do one of two things: we can carry on putting our ego in the way, stamping our feet and pissing our pants that women ignore us, or we can be open to seeing what we can learn from guys like my friend, whose goal is not to sleep with women- he just gets offered it on a plate anyway, mainly because he doesn't care what women think of him. Which do you think is the better approach?

 

The problem for you is the easiest thing for you to do is disregard this post and learn nothing from it and keep complaining that you have tried this and done that like you think the gates to the holy vagina can be unlocled hy completing a checklist of cliché things that women like. Easy as falling off a log. The much harder approach is to change your mindset completely and let go of the angst that you have to be out there shagging right this second or you are a worthless worm. Thst is, if you will excuse me, the trap that the mentally weak fall into because it's easy and rewuires no work at all.

 

It all boils down to this. If you want something enough, you have to be prepared to let it go in order to attain it. And by thst I mean you have to see your own development as the prize- and not physical development (although that helps) your MENTAL development. Focus on your life and what you want to achieve in it, forget about women- see women as what happens when you get everything else falling into place and you become totally confident and happy with who YOU are mentally.

[Garcon1986]

Because I don't have the time to do that. I work full-time, university studies etc. Plus where the hell am I going to find the confidence to do in-person game in a big city when I can't do it in my uni town?

 

Let's face it dude. It's never going to happen for me.

 

 

'n seriously, someone log into my Tinder. See for themselves the amount of effort i put in.

 

I would argue that because you have so few dating opportunities, you don’t have a lot of reference points to judge female body language feedback. There are going to be loads more singles in London; you might make a short weekend trip. You stand to gain a lot, especially if you start in a social gathering that you would naturally go to. You can learn a heck of a lot by spending even a day and a half socializing.

[LightWave93]

It all boils down to this. If you want something enough, you have to be prepared to let it go in order to attain it. And by thst I mean you have to see your own development as the prize- and not physical development (although that helps) your MENTAL development. Focus on your life and what you want to achieve in it, forget about women- see women as what happens when you get everything else falling into place and you become totally confident and happy with who YOU are mentally.

 

Firstly, whilst I appreciate your post DO NOT make the assumption that I am arrogant and will ignore your advice. If you do then you have a totally screwed up interpretation of my character.

 

Now, onto the key point;

 

What if I do EXACTLY as you suggest, and I still remain unattractive? Then I have wasted time not taking action and am worse off than I was before.

 

I will also highlight the fact that I *do* focus on my life, do talk to anyone and everyone, and I do not have the same results as your friend. It would be a miracle for me to be in that situation.

 

I agree a mindset change is a necessity, but I'm of the understanding that is not exclusively the issue. It's this hidden element I'm trying to address.

[Garcon1986]

Women have developed spidey sense online and offline, to men who are desperate, thats the problem- and they only tell their girlfriends. Hence why it would be very healthy for you to take a weekend trip to a social event in a big city. Mindset change. Trust me on this one, if you were transplanted to where I live, literally every other nurse would be pushing people aside to talk to you. You just need the mental toughness to not be affected by rejection, or at least bounce back quickly. Go outside your city and work on your in person game mate, and bring INNER TRANQUILITY with you.

[NuevoYorko]

And all those opportunities to date or have sex with young beautiful women?

 

What's the point in wasting someone's time going on 1, 2, 12 dates if at the end of it I'm not going to want a relationship?

 

I want to be a guy that women desire, so that I can have opportunities to have sex, date etc.

 

Ah. I see. You are mad because beautiful women aren't chomping at the bit to have casual sex with you. You seem to feel that somehow you're entitled to have that.

 

Welcome to reality.

 

Might as well get off your pity pot and start learning how to enjoy the good things in your life. Beautiful women seeking casual sex are not that common, and those that exist have their pick of EVERY man who is into casual sex - which are, in fact, a dime a dozen. Or a penny a hundred, more like it.

[LightWave93]

Ah. I see. You are mad because beautiful women aren't chomping at the bit to have casual sex with you. You seem to feel that somehow you're entitled to have that.

 

Welcome to reality.

 

Might as well get off your pity pot and start learning how to enjoy the good things in your life. Beautiful women seeking casual sex are not that common, and those that exist have their pick of EVERY man who is into casual sex - which are, in fact, a dime a dozen. Or a penny a hundred, more like it.

 

"I don't like your response, therefore I'm going to insult you".

 

Get off your high-horse, mate. I don't feel entitled. I'm simply trying to come to an understanding of why I can't share an experience that many others before, presently, and after me do so. It's nothing to do with feeling as if I'm owed sex because I check off X, Y or Z...don't throw me into that camp.

 

Perhaps I'm not articulating myself well on this forum, and I certainly feel as if I have to defend myself against harsh judgement a lot of the time. But maybe it's okay for you as you're on the side of the fence where you have opportunities; there is literally nothing for me out there, and I am simply trying my best to improve my situation.

 

I was once in a loving relationship and had my heart ripped out. I ain't some sex-crazed, woman-disrespecting beast. I'm simply a man who wants to enjoy his life and have part of that include beautiful (and average!!!) women.

[Garcon1986]

Lightwave93 it could be a lot worse - you could be a successful cardiologist living a middle class lifestyle with every possible treasure in the world except for a wife hehe. That's me. I've been in the dating game for 8 years to your four =p

 

Why can't you make your previous courses more efficient, take off vacation, or rearrange your week? You need a breather first from women, doing what you really enjoy - and then go back into the game. The trouble here is that women have evolved a really strong spidey sense to weed out desperate folks. I need to have you work on your in person game a little more. In a new scene so people can see your personality shine. Some personalities are not easily expressed on Tinder.

 

The secret here is your game. I'm currently practicing sultry talk with an OKCupid person and trying to tune it just right. Your conversations on Tinder don't clearly leave the woman itching to have more.

 

It's time for a block of in person dating game. Try it and see how it goes. You will have confidence if you pick a social event that you are comfortable at. Don't worry about picking a random pub - try that after a good time at a social event.

[LightWave93]

I literally have no time. Teacher training is time-consuming.

 

I've had a few better conversations (again, you're more than welcome to log in), but they seem to go nowhere. I've read Tinder stories of people hooking up within days, sending nudes etc...women just aren't interested in me in that way, even if I do flirt.

[ZA Dater]

<snip>

It's time for a block of in person dating game. Try it and see how it goes. You will have confidence if you pick a social event that you are comfortable at. Don't worry about picking a random pub - try that after a good time at a social event.

With respect I am reading this thread, reading what the OP says and yes, you have a fair point but if you DONT have CONFIDENCE in person game is IMPOSSIBLE and doomed to fail. Ironically its because of failures that the OP has no confidence. For a variety of reasons I am feeling especially bitter today but the point is women, most being 99.9% don't give two continentals about people like the OP (and me) because they have ENDLESS choice.

 

I went to a party on Sat with a great lady, she even got me to dance, during the evening 7 guys tried to pick her up, their game was a joke, honestly I wanted to laugh at how pathetic it was. In that evening I saw hundreds of posts worth of forum advice. My point is this, NO game will work with people who have endless choice. It becomes less about the game and more about other things, OP what is most likely going to happen to you is you will get friend zoned, its women saying "well you are nice, nice enough to spend time with and use your inherently good qualities but not good enough to date".

 

Believe me you might not be getting dates but its MUCH better than getting dates you DONT want.

Edited January 29, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[ZA Dater]

I literally have no time. Teacher training is time-consuming.

 

I've had a few better conversations (again, you're more than welcome to log in), but they seem to go nowhere. I've read Tinder stories of people hooking up within days, sending nudes etc...women just aren't interested in me in that way, even if I do flirt.

 

 

 

I know this feeling all too well...its all I have ever experienced on Tinder, well when I used fake pictures I got more matches but still the same pathetic level of conversation. My advice is delete Tinder, take a week, do things you like, feel a bit better about yourself and then work out which approaches has given some a level of success and which haven't, then look at who you are as a person, decide what you will do and what you wont do in terms of selling, look at your target market and decide what you want versus what you can get.

[clia]

I can't really comment on point 1.

 

Re: Tinder interactions. Why not? Both Morello and Garcon also mentioned this. Is it possible that this might be an area where you can improve?

 

No idea about 2. I flirt, I tease, I'm sexual. I have a good time. I'm just not a "lad", "f*ck boy", boisterous, or a well-built sport lover.

 

Re: Your vibe. And it's possible that the way you are teasing, acting sexual, etc. is turning girls off for some reason. Or at minimum, they are not responding to it. (I personally think it's gross when a guy I don't know at a club/bar makes sexual comments or acts sexual.) I don't know you in person so I really can't elaborate more on what the issue here might be, but clearly there is one. Others have brought this up as well. It could be related to any number of things -- confidence, masculinity, desperation, undefined creepiness, etc.

 

I also don't understand why you are so focused on this "lad," "f*uck boy," or "well-built sport lover" stuff. You keep bringing it up. Sure, some women go for for guys like that, but a lot don't. I mean, just look around. Tons of average guys like yourself have girlfriends. It's possible the girls you are flirting with or going after prefer those types of guys, and that's part of your problem as well.

 

As for the "f*uck boy" stuff, you said above you are telling women you just want something casual. You've made it clear all you are after right now is casual sex. Sounds like a "f*uck boy" to me. Sounds like a guy who is playing the field. Again, that may be a turn off to some women. And women who do want something casual or casual sex can typically have their pick, so you've got a lot of competition.

 

I don't get the option to date, therefore point 3 is irrelevant.

 

Send some messages to some of the 138 women who you didn't message. When you are at the club/bar, look around for the girl who looks a little lonely, like you are and try approaching her. If you are the guy who never gets the girl, trust me, there are groups of girls there where one is the one who never gets the guy. You might have better luck with that kind of girl.

[ZA Dater]

<snip> If you are the guy who never gets the girl, trust me, there are groups of girls there where one is the one who never gets the guy. You might have better luck with that kind of girl.

 

 

If I had $1 for every time I have read this I'd be quite rich. (the bold part) Why should the OP go for those girls, maybe he doesn't like that sort of girl? Why is it you basically say "oh well I mean you cant get what you want so maybe try get something you don't want" sorry but this is a serious bugbear of mine, have you ever done this? Were you happy doing it?

 

Frankly my advice to the OP is if you have to drop yourself to the level of desperation of pursuing people you don't find attractive then slam the door shut on dating completely because doing this, in view completely defeats the point. However, telling all and sundry you want casual only, immediately that kills off most dating prospects, I saw this at work this past weekend , one girl approached by 5 guys, all wanted casual, guess what I dropped her at home and she gave me a hug...they get nowhere with her at all.

 

I agree with the OP, seemingly ALL women seem to want the sports loving guy who is seems to be made according to some template as to what guys should be, how they should behave. Honestly OP I relate completely to you, either just keep going or focus on other thing in life and ignore all the "noise" around you of who dates who, who hooked up with who, so and so is so hot etc. etc.

Edited January 29, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[clia]

Why should the OP go for those girls, maybe he doesn't like that sort of girl?

 

OP is complaining he can't get a date and is looking for casual sex. What he's doing isn't working, so he can either keep swinging and missing or try something else. I was merely offering a suggestion.

 

Why is it you basically say "oh well I mean you cant get what you want so maybe try get something you don't want" sorry but this is a serious bugbear of mine, have you ever done this? Were you happy doing it?

 

I never had to do it because I never had the problem OP is having. He's had thread after thread asking for help and advice and telling us how lonely he is, so I'm offering some help and advice. He can obviously do whatever he wants with it.

 

Frankly my advice to the OP is if you have to drop yourself to the level of desperation of pursuing people you don't find attractive then slam the door shut on dating completely because doing this, in view completely defeats the point.

 

I never said anything about him pursuing girls he doesn't find attractive. I'm suggesting he open his eyes more, look around, and see if there are girls who he might have a better shot with than the ones who he is currently pursuing, who don't seem interested in him. He might spot a cute, introverted, shy girl in the corner who appeals to him.

 

I agree with the OP, seemingly ALL women seem to want the sports loving guy who is seems to be made according to some template as to what guys should be, how they should behave.

 

I'm a girl, and no, ALL of us don't want this type of guy. There are plenty of gamer type, nerdy, hipster, etc., guys out there who have girlfriends and go on dates.

[LightWave93]

Re: Tinder interactions. Why not? Both Morello and Garcon also mentioned this. Is it possible that this might be an area where you can improve?

 

There's always room for improvement, which is why I try different approaches. I've sent a few messages, asked straight up what they're looking for, said I want a casual thing. Blank. I've done the same, albeit dating. Blank. I've taken the long approach. Blank mid-way, or after I ask for a number, or after I get the number and text them a little bit, to eventually ask them out. Blank.

 

I'm not sure how I'm being misunderstood. I fail at a variety of steps, regardless of my approach.

 

 

Re: Your vibe. And it's possible that the way you are teasing, acting sexual, etc. is turning girls off for some reason. Or at minimum, they are not responding to it. (I personally think it's gross when a guy I don't know at a club/bar makes sexual comments or acts sexual.) I don't know you in person so I really can't elaborate more on what the issue here might be, but clearly there is one. Others have brought this up as well. It could be related to any number of things -- confidence, masculinity, desperation, undefined creepiness, etc.

 

I don't cold approach at a club. I've said this before. I can't get women to date me via online, or through mutual interests; a random woman isn't going to want to be with me. Also, I'm not sexual with women I've just met...I get to know them, because I am genuinely interested in getting to know them.

 

I also don't understand why you are so focused on this "lad," "f*uck boy," or "well-built sport lover" stuff. You keep bringing it up. Sure, some women go for for guys like that, but a lot don't.

 

Because they are the men who generally get the women. It's not "some", it's the majority.

 

Tons of average guys like yourself have girlfriends.

 

I guess I'm below average then.

 

As for the "f*uck boy" stuff, you said above you are telling women you just want something casual. You've made it clear all you are after right now is casual sex. Sounds like a "f*uck boy" to me. Sounds like a guy who is playing the field. Again, that may be a turn off to some women. And women who do want something casual or casual sex can typically have their pick, so you've got a lot of competition.

 

"F*ck boys" use lies and manipulation to get what they want. They say to a woman they want a relationship when really all they do is hit-and-run. Notice how I don't resort to that tactic. I'm not owed anything for taking the honest approach, but it's becoming increasingly clear to me that taking the honest approach is the road to failure in this modern society.

 

And as I've said, ultimately I would like to date / a relationship, but I've never had the casual experiences of youth. It might be easy for you to sit there if you've got that under your belt, but I haven't.

 

Send some messages to some of the 138 women who you didn't message.

 

And get ignored / rejected / ghosted by all 138?

 

When you are at the club/bar, look around for the girl who looks a little lonely, like you are and try approaching her.

 

There aren't any. And remember; when I am at a bar / club I am out with friends, drinking and dancing. I'm not moping in a corner.

 

If you are the guy who never gets the girl, trust me, there are groups of girls there where one is the one who never gets the guy. You might have better luck with that kind of girl.

 

Every night I go out, there's two types of girls; ones that are in a relationship already, and one that's just gone home with a guy.

 

There are plenty of gamer type, nerdy, hipster, etc., guys out there who have girlfriends and go on dates.

 

Every nerdy girl I have ever spoken to / messaged on dating apps (bearing in mind the latter they have swiped right on me to begin with) has never responded to me, even despite our huge list of common interests. I don't even appeal to my own audience.

[NuevoYorko]

 

 

"F*ck boys" use lies and manipulation to get what they want. They say to a woman they want a relationship when really all they do is hit-and-run. Notice how I don't resort to that tactic. I'm not owed anything for taking the honest approach, but it's becoming increasingly clear to me that taking the honest approach is the road to failure in this modern society.

 

How are you choosing to communicate with women that you're contacting that you are not interested in a relationship with them but only casual sex?

 

That right there might be the problem. It could come off as quite awkward or even insulting.

 

I applaud you for being straight up from the get go, but surely you realize that the beautiful women you are attracted to on dating apps are by and large not really looking for the same thing you are.

[LightWave93]

How are you choosing to communicate with women that you're contacting that you are not interested in a relationship with them but only casual sex?

Depends how the conversations flowing. I matched with a girl earlier who's only photos were...saucy, to say the least. I used a more straight up approach. Nada.

 

Otherwise, usually a lot of them will say "I'm not sure" or "I've just got out of a relationship", so I mention I'm looking for a casual thing. Silence.

I applaud you for being straight up from the get go, but surely you realize that the beautiful women you are attracted to on dating apps are by and large not really looking for the same thing you are.

Because casual sex never happens, right? Also, just swiped right on 100 women on OkCupid. No matches.

Edited January 29, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[NuevoYorko]

 

Because casual sex never happens, right?

It happens all the time. I will say that the times I have had casual sex it was spontaneous; no scouring the dating sites for women I found to be beautiful and then working on getting them to have sex with me. I can't imagine that working well for most anyone.

 

If you can lose the self pity, anger and sense of entitlement you have about this, things will go a lot better for you. 100% guarantee.

[LightWave93]

It happens all the time. I will say that the times I have had casual sex it was spontaneous; no scouring the dating sites for women I found to be beautiful and then working on getting them to have sex with me. I can't imagine that working well for most anyone.

 

If you can lose the self pity, anger and sense of entitlement you have about this, things will go a lot better for you. 100% guarantee.

 

And yet people hook up from Tinder etc all the time?

 

Please, tell.me, with evidence, how "letting go" of X, Y and Z will accomplish anything? When I start trying to date / get laid, I never had those issues. Same result as now. I ain't suddenly going to get girls interested in me on Tinder, coming up to me IRL, and generally taking an interest in me, all because in my mind I've fooled myself into thinking I *could* be "that guy".

 

Clearly I'm not attractive enough to do this. And that's okay. I just wish people would stop lying to me in that case.

[elaine567]

Suggesting you only want casual sex is perhaps the equivalent of going up to every woman in sight and saying.

"Do ya wanna f*ck?

99-99.9% will say no to most guys, as that is how it works. Are some up for casual I guess yes, but the blunt approach can be a big turn off.

If you can live with a 0-0.1% success rate then great...

 

You don't actually look like a casual sex guy though, so mixed messages I guess too.

 

 

I would drop the "casual sex" thing.

[ZA Dater]

Suggesting you only want casual sex is perhaps the equivalent of going up to every woman in sight and saying."Do ya wanna f*ck? <snip>

I agree, drop the casual thing and see if the results are any better. I can tell you its possible to find casual on tinder if you really, really, lower your standards, don't go there though. I have been propositioned by ladies on tinder but the reasons were usually very obvious...

 

Hang in there OP, don't let things get totally out of control, the place you are in isn't a nice one, I can relate, try not to get consumed.

Edited January 29, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[HiCrunchy]

OP I am confused.

 

U say u are lonely but do not want a relationship. Casual sex and hookups is a lonely thing. Unless ur friends with that person I guess, but ur going via tinder so thise women there arent ur friends.

 

Why not just date instead? Or just be open to the idea?