Long-term problem; unable to get dates

[Garcon1986]

Let's see some Tinder messages as well in the PM.

[LightWave93]

I think the thing that's upset me most this week is that a friend of mine got a few matches on Tinder, met one and slept with her in the space of a week. He's subjectively less attractive than me and he did in a few days what I haven't in a few years.

 

Then, a few nights back, we were dancing at a night club (I say dancing, he was simply standing on the spot waving his arms), and two of the most attractive girls in the club started to dance with him (one literally ran across the dance floor to do so). He literally did nothing; not before, not during, not after.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am genuinely happy for him, but I'm so pissed off (and a little jealous) that something like that can happen to a guy who is openly depressed, rarely goes out, and doesn't put the effort in.

 

Like I said, there is something fundamentally wrong with me as a human. And I will never have these experiences.

[Garcon1986]

Stay on target! Go to another city in London for the weekend. Preferably large. Specifically work on your in -person dating game. I know you've tried moving your OLD location but the in person game will be different.

[Morello]

I read your Tinder convos. I have good and bad news.

 

Bad: You're basically doing a lot of things the wrong way.

Good: There's still hope

 

Things you're doing wrong:

 

1) You don't sound confident in your messages. You sound unworthy of having these girls even chat with you, which is an attraction killer.

2) You never did ask them out properly. When you kind of did, you never offered a date/time/place.

3) Quite a few times you gave them your number and asked them to call you or message you. Do you really think they're going to do that?

4) You're acting as a bit of a pleaser, complimenting too much without barely knowing them.

 

I think you'd benefit a lot from reading the Corey Wayne book. I find very surprising that you had dating coaches working with you and yet you seem clueless about the dating game. You either don't listen/learn easily or something else is off.

 

I don't usually think dating coaches (such as CW) are the best way to go forward but it would do wonders for you because you have no idea what you're doing and are making very common mistakes that are making you less attractive than the competition.

[Garcon1986]

I like the cheekiness in your conversations, however they seem very short. They don't give time to emotionally engage with women and have them see the best parts of you shine through. I've spent at least a day's worth of conversations before asking a woman out - you are more likely to get a real yes once you've convinced the woman it's right to go out with you. I would try to seek out "emotional engagement" before asking her out, so that she is itching to go out with you, rather than have her thinking "eh maybe not, my girlfriends think he's kinda odd, I'll go out with my friends instead".

[clia]

I think the thing that's upset me most this week is that a friend of mine got a few matches on Tinder, met one and slept with her in the space of a week. He's subjectively less attractive than me and he did in a few days what I haven't in a few years.

 

Ask to see his messages to her. I found Morello's comments above about your messages to be pretty interesting and could explain a lot about why you have had such little success on Tinder. It doesn't take much to turn a girl off in that type of interaction. Obviously something is going wrong with your interaction if you can't turn any of your 100+ matches into a single date.

 

Then, a few nights back, we were dancing at a night club (I say dancing, he was simply standing on the spot waving his arms), and two of the most attractive girls in the club started to dance with him (one literally ran across the dance floor to do so). He literally did nothing; not before, not during, not after.

 

Forget what you think about his looks. Those two girls found him more attractive than you and that's why they approached him.

 

What were you doing while your friend was dancing with two girls? Did you try to dance with the group or try to talk to one of them? Seems like this guy might be a good wingman for you, since he is attracting girls. Rather than being jealous of him, maybe try to use this to your advantage.

[LightWave93]

Ask to see his messages to her. I found Morello's comments above about your messages to be pretty interesting and could explain a lot about why you have had such little success on Tinder. It doesn't take much to turn a girl off in that type of interaction. Obviously something is going wrong with your interaction if you can't turn any of your 100+ matches into a single date.

 

Well there's a few looking for a relationship, but I'm not in the mind to be exclusive right now. I need to work on getting dates / laid, not settling

 

He won't let me read the messages, nor will he tell me what he said. All I know is she sent him a sexy pic out of the blue, something I've never received.

 

Forget what you think about his looks. Those two girls found him more attractive than you and that's why they approached him.

 

'ey, just saying. He's a good lad, happy for him.

 

What were you doing while your friend was dancing with two girls? Did you try to dance with the group or try to talk to one of them? Seems like this guy might be a good wingman for you, since he is attracting girls. Rather than being jealous of him, maybe try to use this to your advantage.

 

Dancing in a group, facing towards him. The one girl just got close to him but he completely ignored her; the second literally ran up to him and danced in his face (never seen anything like it). Not meaning to sound judgemental but I was easily the better dressed / dancer, and even my other friends said so, but hey...it worked!

 

He doesn't go out much. Once in a blue moon. Not exactly the outgoing type nor does he have much experience with the ladies. Less than me actually.

 

So again, looks like I need to give up. It's making me quite depressed. Not worthy of anything apparently.

[Garcon1986]

Get emotional engagement with those tinder matches before asking them out. Your conversations don’t have enough time for the woman to get to know you. Inspire good feelings towards you first.

[clia]

Well there's a few looking for a relationship, but I'm not in the mind to be exclusive right now. I need to work on getting dates / laid, not settling

 

I don't really follow this. Are you saying there are girls you are interacting with on Tinder who want to go on a date with you but you don't want to go on a date with them because they are looking for a relationship? (If that's the case, then you are putting the cart before the horse. One date doesn't mean anything and certainly doesn't mean you have to be exclusive.)

 

My point is just that if you have messaged with 100+ matches on Tinder and can't turn a single one into a date, then there is quite obviously something wrong with your messages. Morello's post above seems to support my assessment.

 

He won't let me read the messages, nor will he tell me what he said. All I know is she sent him a sexy pic out of the blue, something I've never received.

 

This seems really strange. Are you sure this even happened?

 

Not meaning to sound judgemental but I was easily the better dressed / dancer, and even my other friends said so, but hey...it worked!

 

Those girls obviously didn't care about how he was dressed or how he danced. Different strokes for different folks...

[LightWave93]

I don't really follow this. Are you saying there are girls you are interacting with on Tinder who want to go on a date with you but you don't want to go on a date with them because they are looking for a relationship? (If that's the case, then you are putting the cart before the horse. One date doesn't mean anything and certainly doesn't mean you have to be exclusive.)

 

There's girls stating they want a relationship; I'm not going to waste their time dating them when they would be better investing their time finding someone more suitable.

 

The few girls that have responded, I've told them I'm looking to simply looking for a casual thing.

 

IMy point is just that if you have messaged with 100+ matches on Tinder and can't turn a single one into a date, then there is quite obviously something wrong with your messages. Morello's post above seems to support my assessment.

 

Currently 199. I've messaged about 30. I've had about 15 responses but only 11 have become a proper conversation.

 

One unmatched.

Two went AWOL the moment I suggested a meet / gave them my number.

Two claim they want to meet but are "busy".

The rest have simply stopped responding mid-way.

 

Those that haven't responded; they are varying attractiveness, interests etc.

 

This seems really strange. Are you sure this even happened?

 

I trust this man with my life, and he knows how upset I am about this whole ordeal.

 

Those girls obviously didn't care about how he was dressed or how he danced. Different strokes for different folks...

 

Oh, I get that. Simply stating what went on. Before anyone says "Were you worse dressed, dancing etc than him?".

[Wallysbears]

You matched with 199 people and have only messaged 30?

 

I don't understand

[LightWave93]

You matched with 199 people and have only messaged 30?

 

I don't understand

 

I just swipe right and hope for the best, some matches I wouldn't want to talk to anyway.

 

I double-checked. I've messaged 61.

 

Hell, I'm willing to let people log into my damned Tinder account if that's going to help.

 

I don't know why women are not interested in me. They might be swiping, but they certainly aren't interested in talking. I'm not attractive enough, probably butt-ugly. It's the only explanation as to why I don't get interest IRL or online.

[clia]

There's girls stating they want a relationship; I'm not going to waste their time dating them when they would be better investing their time finding someone more suitable.

 

The few girls that have responded, I've told them I'm looking to simply looking for a casual thing.

 

Okay, well this makes you sound like a player who is out for casual sex. That might be part of your problem. You might be better off saying you are open to anything if you meet the right person. Going on one date with a person doesn't mean you have to marry them or start a relationship.

 

Currently 199. I've messaged about 30. I've had about 15 responses but only 11 have become a proper conversation.

 

One unmatched.

Two went AWOL the moment I suggested a meet / gave them my number.

Two claim they want to meet but are "busy".

The rest have simply stopped responding mid-way.

 

Those that haven't responded; they are varying attractiveness, interests etc.

 

Dating is a huge numbers game. You are leaving 85% of your chances on the table by not messaging everyone. Seems odd for a guy who is so desperate for a date.

 

I trust this man with my life, and he knows how upset I am about this whole ordeal.

 

You trust him with your life, but he won't help you out by showing you his messages or telling you what he said to get a sexy pic and sex so quick out of it? Sounds like a great friend.

[clia]

I just swipe right and hope for the best, some matches I wouldn't want to talk to anyway.

 

I double-checked. I've messaged 61.

 

Hell, I'm willing to let people log into my damned Tinder account if that's going to help.

 

I don't know why women are not interested in me. They might be swiping, but they certainly aren't interested in talking. I'm not attractive enough, probably butt-ugly. It's the only explanation as to why I don't get interest IRL or online.

 

Perhaps they are doing the same thing you are and doing a mass swipe right and then picking and choosing who they want to talk to out of that.

[Garcon1986]

Men rarely help other men get dates especially if both parties are single.

[LightWave93]

Okay, well this makes you sound like a player who is out for casual sex. That might be part of your problem. You might be better off saying you are open to anything if you meet the right person. Going on one date with a person doesn't mean you have to marry them or start a relationship

 

As much as I would like a relationship, if I got into one then I would probably always wonder why I was never able to experience more dating / casual sex.

 

Dating is a huge numbers game. You are leaving 85% of your chances on the table by not messaging everyone. Seems odd for a guy who is so desperate for a date.

 

Because after four years and messaging hundreds of women, and internalizing the belief that I am probably going to die alone and never experience intimacy again, it's difficult to find the enthusiasm to face further rejection.

 

You trust him with your life, but he won't help you out by showing you his messages or telling you what he said to get a sexy pic and sex so quick out of it? Sounds like a great friend.

 

I take what I can get.

[NuevoYorko]

 

What's the point of doing volunteer work, gym, dance, developing a career, being independent, sport etc etc if fundamentally I am such a bad human being that is cursed to walk this earth alone?

You have dating problems. I would imagine that there are a variety of things you can do to improve your prospects. You seem quite resistant. Regardless, this has nothing to do with you being a "bad human being cursed ..." etc. Do you think other single people are "bad" as well? Perhaps you feel a bit entitled. Maybe this type of attitude has something do do with your predicament.

 

I'm sick and tired of seeing people dating around, having sex etc.

I can somewhat sympathize with you; being single myself, at times it stings a bit seeing happy couples. That said, bitterness? Another complete turn off for women and for us as well.

 

Would you like to date a bitter woman who felt that the world is against her because she doesn't have the man she thinks she "deserves"? I imagine you would not .

[clia]

As much as I would like a relationship, if I got into one then I would probably always wonder why I was never able to experience more dating / casual sex.

 

You are putting the cart before the horse. I mean, you can't even get a date and you are worried that if you go out with a woman she is going to find you so irresistible that she's going to force you into a relationship so you'll never ever be able to date anyone else again? Be serious here. I don't understand why you are throwing up roadblocks for yourself like this. Go out on a date, be open minded, and since most dates don't turn into anything anyway, you have lost nothing but gained some dating experience.

 

Because after four years and messaging hundreds of women, and internalizing the belief that I am probably going to die alone and never experience intimacy again, it's difficult to find the enthusiasm to face further rejection.

 

Okay then, don't bother trying. It's your choice. By it's very nature online dating and Tinder are flaky. It is what it is.

[LightWave93]

You have dating problems. I would imagine that there are a variety of things you can do to improve your prospects. You seem quite resistant. Regardless, this has nothing to do with you being a "bad human being cursed ..." etc. Do you think other single people are "bad" as well? Perhaps you feel a bit entitled. Maybe this type of attitude has something do do with your predicament.

 

What things? I've honestly tried everything. Building a solid career, becoming independent, being social, being giving (although that's in my nature anyway), becoming healthier, going to therapy, research, coaches, seeking advice, developing new skills, dance...

 

What MORE can I do to improve my situation? I'm in the exact same place I was in four years ago. And all those opportunities to date or have sex with young beautiful women? Gone.

 

You are putting the cart before the horse. I mean, you can't even get a date and you are worried that if you go out with a woman she is going to find you so irresistible that she's going to force you into a relationship so you'll never ever be able to date anyone else again? Be serious here. I don't understand why you are throwing up roadblocks for yourself like this. Go out on a date, be open minded, and since most dates don't turn into anything anyway, you have lost nothing but gained some dating experience.

 

What's the point in wasting someone's time going on 1, 2, 12 dates if at the end of it I'm not going to want a relationship?

 

I want to be a guy that women desire, so that I can have opportunities to have sex, date etc. Not limit myself to the one girl that MAY agree to date me.

[Wallysbears]

I want to be independently wealthy and be able to spend my days lounging at the country club and counting my money...but that's not the cards that life dealt me.

 

So I make the most of the days that I do have.

[LightWave93]

I want to be independently wealthy and be able to spend my days lounging at the country club and counting my money...but that's not the cards that life dealt me.

 

So I make the most of the days that I do have.

 

Do you have a wife, girlfriend or get laid regularly?

 

If yes to any of those, then imagine life without them.

 

I can't fathom what's so difficult for you guys to understand that I simply want to feel like a desirable human being that can function on a romantic / sexual level like everybody else. Do you know how debilitating it is to know that the only way you could ever experience such would be to pay for it?

[clia]

And all those opportunities to date or have sex with young beautiful women? Gone.

 

What about young average looking women? Are they on your radar?

 

What's the point in wasting someone's time going on 1, 2, 12 dates if at the end of it I'm not going to want a relationship?

 

That's exactly what dating is, though. You go on dates with people until you find someone you want to stay with. I mean, what if you meet a great girl who you really like during one of these dates? Isn't that possible?

 

But fundamentally I think (1) your messaging/interactions online/through Tinder are lacking; (2) you are giving off some kind of vibe (related to, for example, masculinity, confidence, desperation, or something else) that is turning girls off when they meet you in person; and/or (3) you are being far too picky about who you will date.

[Garcon1986]

If you advertise yourself as a casual fling guy know that many women will sense that and say no thanks. Your self worth is not controlled by how much female attention you can get- this is something you learn in your 30s. You can however get emotional engagement on multiple dates- try for that first. If you have not tried that, it’s a potential reason why women are flaking. I also haven’t seen you try to spend a few days working on your in person dating game.

[Wallysbears]

You aren't replying to the "matches" that you do get.

You are advertising as someone only interested in casual dating and sex.

 

 

Both of these are valid reasons why you aren't getting more dates.

[LightWave93]

What about young average looking women? Are they on your radar?

 

Yes. I'm not on there's though. Although I've been told before that what I would consider hot is actually average, so perceptions vary.

 

That's exactly what dating is, though. You go on dates with people until you find someone you want to stay with. I mean, what if you meet a great girl who you really like during one of these dates? Isn't that possible?

 

Then I go back to my original point; I would forever wonder why I was never the guy to get many dates or experience casual sex.

 

But fundamentally I think (1) your messaging/interactions online/through Tinder are lacking; (2) you are giving off some kind of vibe (related to, for example, masculinity, confidence, desperation, or something else) that is turning girls off when they meet you in person; and/or (3) you are being far too picky about who you will date.

 

I can't really comment on point 1.

No idea about 2. I flirt, I tease, I'm sexual. I have a good time. I'm just not a "lad", "f*ck boy", boisterous, or a well-built sport lover.

I don't get the option to date, therefore point 3 is irrelevant.

 

If you advertise yourself as a casual fling guy know that many women will sense that and say no thanks. Your self worth is not controlled by how much female attention you can get- this is something you learn in your 30s. You can however get emotional engagement on multiple dates- try for that first. If you have not tried that, it’s a potential reason why women are flaking. I also haven’t seen you try to spend a few days working on your in person dating game.

 

Lots of women have casual sex. Lots of men have casual sex. Why can't I have casual sex? That's the question I'm posing here. You seem to think it's never done.

 

And no, my worth isn't attached to female attention. But I get non, and men my age are having the time of their lives. I've missed out. I don't want to miss out.

 

You aren't replying to the "matches" that you do get.

You are advertising as someone only interested in casual dating and sex.

 

 

Both of these are valid reasons why you aren't getting more dates.

 

*scratch head* The majority of matches don't reply to me.

 

You talk as though casual sex is a rare thing.

 

I want to try both casual sex and dating. I can't get either. I want to be in a position where I could try out both.