Women starting a new job while hiding being pregnant

[major_merrick]

Employers discriminate all the time! Whether they prefer older or younger, black or white, male or female...whatever. All they have to do is lie about the reason, and they are fine. The law is pretty difficult to enforce. So...if you are a smart woman and want to land the job, you hide your pregnancy if you can. That's just the way life goes.

[preraph]

I've never personally seen any instances of employers getting in trouble for only hiring old people -- and that's because they never do that. They usually hire 20-something women and not as picky on men, because it's still mainly male owners/executives. I've never once worked someplace where a boss expressed a preference for old people. It's mainly personal, but there's also the insurance issue if they provide insurance. When I was a good looking 50-something, I made it to the third interview and felt I was being hired and they had me fill out all the paperwork -- and it's illegal in the US to have you put your age on the employment application; but it's perfectly legal for them to have you fill out insurance application and then they see your age there -- and I never heard from them again. They went that far to have me sign everything and then ghosted me.

[Springsummer]

When I was a good looking 50-something, I made it to the third interview and felt I was being hired and they had me fill out all the paperwork -- and it's illegal in the US to have you put your age on the employment application; but it's perfectly legal for them to have you fill out insurance application and then they see your age there -- and I never heard from them again. They went that far to have me sign everything and then ghosted me.

 

Damn, I guess I must stay within the government then.

 

Just yesterday, a senior person thought I still have 32 years to go in the gov. before retirement. How old he thinks I am?

[Springsummer]

I've personally never known of a woman who had to take several months leave from work due to a difficult childbirth. 4-6 weeks is typical for a caesarian.

 

In the US men are rarely provided with family leave. It's not because of medical problems with women.

 

Everyone is entitled to take 1 year of paid maternal/paternal leave where I work.

 

but too bad, it looks like I will never be able to take advantage of that.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Everyone is entitled to take a year off because of getting pregnant

 

 

 

If a person got cancer, they don't have the same entitlements. It's ridiculous to me.

 

 

 

When I started my recent role, I was told to go easy on women A and B because they have small kids. They are constantly absent and their productivity is about half of what it is for other team members. Yet, they get payed the same. I am all for flexibility but FFS make up those hours.

[Shining One]

I think her complaints stem from the fact that they do affect her. In theory, a pregnancy or a woman with small children should have absolutely no effect on her coworkers. In practice, that's not always the case. There are plenty of instances in which coworkers are forced to pick up the slack, often due to the company not wanting to spend money to properly fill the resource gap.

 

While I've never had a pregnant woman reporting to me, I've had my direct reports utilized by other departments to fill in for gaps created by pregnancies. For example, HR had one of my non-hourly (thus "free") support technicians refilling supplies in the break rooms when the woman responsible was pregnant but still working.

Edited November 19, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[NuevoYorko]

Everyone is entitled to take a year off because of getting pregnant

 

That's because children need to have a good start in life. It's not a special treat for the person, but for the good of future leaders and members of your society.

 

So, you're bitter towards working women who have children. Only the women, or men who participate in reproduction as well?

 

You should live here in the US. We are one of the only countries in the world, and the only of the 34 OECD member countries, that has not passed laws requiring business and corporations to offer paid maternity leave to their employees.

[losangelena]

I think her complaints stem from the fact that they do affect her. In theory, a pregnancy or a woman with small children should have absolutely no effect on her coworkers. In practice, that's not always the case. There are plenty of instances in which coworkers are forced to pick up the slack, often due to the company not wanting to spend money to properly fill the resource gap.

 

Then it’s up the company to fill the gaps properly, not demonize women with small children.

 

Listen, I could give a rats behind when a coworker goes on about their “amazing” kids. I’ll roll my eyes all goddamn day. But if you’re gonna get upset about coworkers wanting to actually take care of their kids, direct your anger to where it will be most productive: to management. Jesus.

[BluEyeL]

Seriously this one really annoys me. One of my co-workers did that and she says it wasn't planned and happened after she got the job already. It's doubtful because she started 2 months ago and already looks like she is over 6 months pregnant (probably more).

 

I know this is none of my business but now company is stuck because they have to let her pass probation or she can sue them. Her attitude of "poor me, I had no idea", "I am a victim" is

 

FFS "it looks bad" because it is bad.

 

 

I didn't read any replies.

 

 

What they do doesn't look bad. They aren't required to disclose pregnancy during the interview. Your attitude does look very bad though.

[littleblackheart]

Everyone is entitled to take a year off because of getting pregnant

 

No one is pregnant for a year. Getting pregnant and raising children are not really the same thing... Anyway. Part of this 'entitlement', as you say, is unpaid. This means that taking a whole year out is actually very expensive in most countries - a luxury even, one might say - and not that common.

 

I have a feeling these prejudices will stop when more men take parental leave.

 

If a person got cancer, they don't have the same entitlements. It's ridiculous to me.

 

It's not even comparable.

 

When I started my recent role, I was told to go easy on women A and B because they have small kids. They are constantly absent and their productivity is about half of what it is for other team members. Yet, they get payed the same. I am all for flexibility but FFS make up those hours.

 

If they're not making up their hours and / or the extra hours you're doing are not taken into account, you should take it up with management, not them. Besides, there may be other factors at play that you have not been made privy to.

 

 

@Shining One

For example, HR had one of my non-hourly (thus "free") support technicians refilling supplies in the break rooms when the woman responsible was pregnant but still working.

 

Was that a health and safety thing? How often did that occur? Was this woman's only job to replenish the break rooms?

 

Small business owners who can't afford to pay their employees parental leave just don't, and use all sorts of justifications to get them as far as the interview process for appearances sake then give them a bogus reason for hiring someone else. It's an open secret.

 

Bigger businesses who can afford it do it because they must see it as a good trade-off on balance when gaining a skilled, qualified employee.

 

Genuinely, I just don't get this gripe.

[MidwestUSA]

Back in my corporate days, I shared an office with a girl about the same age as me. She had three kids already, and yes, she sometimes had to take off. But, she made up her time.

 

One day I noticed she was having Cheerios and milk at her desk instead of Diet Coke. I said 'you're pregnant, arent you?' She told me she was, but wanted to wait till she was 'safe' - the usual three month period when miscarriages are most likely to occur - before she announced it. I kept her secret.

 

She finally announced it on a Friday. Monday, she was out sick. My heart sank, I knew. When she came back, she told me she'd gone to the hospital cramping, and they had an OB come right in. This man SCREAMED at her - 'you're delivering a perfectly formed, stillborn baby girl, WTF is wrong with you?!' I had no words to comfort her from THAT. .

 

It wasn't long before she conceived again. She worked; I don't think she missed a day, maybe left early here and there for doctor appointments. One day, she crossed the hall, to use the bathroom, which was right across from our office. Her water broke in the hallway before she got there.

 

Her hubby came and got her, she was crowning as they pulled up to the hospital. A perfect baby; a boy this time. Six weeks later, she was back at work, didn't miss a beat.

 

My point from having this memory brought back to me? You can't paint every woman with the same broad brush.

 

OP, I'm sorry all your experiences are so negative. Does your employer not allow you to accrue vacation days to travel, or 'sleep in'? If not, perhaps you should seek a job that does.

 

 

Edit to add, this girl moved up into high management not long after I left the company.

Edited November 18, 2018 by MidwestUSA

[preraph]

This thread is just a little microcosm of how things are in the workplace: women with children vs. women without. Anyone who thinks people taking off for pregnancies do not affect those left to take up their slack is pretty entitled. I'm for ALL people being able to take off for whatever it is, their relative needing care, their dog needing meds three times a day, kids, a broken leg, but it's never going to be okay to only give people with kids special privileges and that is mainly what is going on in the U.S. today because the law only accommodates them.

 

I honestly don't see why any company should have to pay people for time off except vacations,which are an earned incentive you have to be there a year to earn. But I do think you should be able to take time off and then return to work -- though not in the same job, because it's not fair to a replacement who'd been doing a great job to get laid off because you chose to leave.

 

But what I've seen repeatedly is they take the paid time off and milk the insurance until it runs out, and then never come back. I think we need a law that if they don't return to work within a certain time, they need to repay what the company paid for while they were gone. They should know this up front so they can decide for themselves whether to go ahead and take the pay and use the insurance and be under contract to come back, or be liable.

 

There are actually many solutions to make this more equitable IF the person comes back, but as the laws are right now, it's a loophole many abuse to get free everything for that period of time.

 

IF they came back, there could be a pro-rating depending on how many years they've been with the company. If they were there three years, they get the benefit and resume at their old rate of pay. If they've been there only one year, they get less paid time off. If they haven't even been there a year, I don't think any employer ought to have to pay for any of it.

[NuevoYorko]

I think we need a law that if they don't return to work within a certain time, they need to repay what the company paid for while they were gone. They should know this up front so they can decide for themselves whether to go ahead and take the pay and use the insurance and be under contract to come back, or be liable.

 

Like the OP, you should live in the US. We have no laws requiring paid leave for maternity or any medical issue. There is the FMLA that protects a person's job for up to 12 weeks when they require leave for family purposes. It does not provide for pay.

 

Back in the good old days prior to 1993, women having babies, sick people and those caring for sick family members usually lost their jobs if they missed work for over a week.

 

When my daughter was born, her mother got 2 weeks of job protection (complements of the company she worked for - not the government). No pay. I got nothing except a day off (no pay) to be there for the birth. Infant started daycare at 2 weeks old, or we would have lost medical insurance and possibly ended up on welfare.

 

Good times, right?

[BluEyeL]

I think the US should have paid maternity leave like other civilized countries . I worked until delivery day and I delivered on the weekend. Stayed home 2 weeks and 3 days after.

 

My husband also told me how he had to do lore because he didn’t have children and I told him cry me a river . When I was alone with no children I was offering to do the overnights and weekends , unpaid, to help those with kids and families.

[major_merrick]

I think a year of paid leave is ridiculous. A company should pay for a worker who isn't there? That is nuts. I got my 12 weeks of unpaid leave, and I used some vacation time. It has been adequate for me. I'll be going back to work after Thanksgiving, even though I'm returning already pregnant with #2. If I end up deciding I want to be a full-time mother, I'll quit. You can't live in two worlds, and I think it is unfair to expect to be paid for work that I'm not doing.

 

One improvement I would definitely love to see is a more "24-hour" oriented world. Doctors and mechanics and other services are only open from 8am-5pm on Monday to Friday. How in the world do they all manage to get business like that? I don't understand it. When a mom has to take her kid to the doctor, she has to miss work and use vacation, or be a no-show at work. Not good. There ought to be a way to get a kid to a doctor at 8pm or get the car fixed. Likewise, there ought to be a way for people to work at hours besides 8-5. If people could get both their work and their tasks done without having the two things compete, that would reduce so much stress for the average worker.

 

Actually, I've thought that if I had a bunch of money to start a business, that's what I'd do: after hours services. Have a doctor/pharmacy, mechanic, etc... all in one building for people who work 8-5 and can't take time off. I'm betting that could make tons of money and help a lot of people.

[MidwestUSA]

 

Actually, I've thought that if I had a bunch of money out to start a business, that's what I'd do: after hours services. Have a doctor/pharmacy, mechanic, etc... all in one building for people who work 8-5 and can't take time off. I'm betting that could make tons of money and help a lot of people.

 

Oh, you know it would!

 

I work 9pm to 7am. I can stop at any 24 hour grocery or retail store on my way home for that type of stuff, and catch a doctor or dentist at the first appointment of the day.

 

But, night shift isn't for everyone. My vet has two nights a week where he's open till 7 pm; more of our necessary professional services should adopt such a strategy. I know of a few docs and dentists who have Saturday hours once a month, but it's not enough.

[preraph]

I think a year of paid leave is ridiculous. A company should pay for a worker who isn't there? That is nuts. I got my 12 weeks of unpaid leave, and I used some vacation time. It has been adequate for me. I'll be going back to work after Thanksgiving, even though I'm returning already pregnant with #2. If I end up deciding I want to be a full-time mother, I'll quit. You can't live in two worlds, and I think it is unfair to expect to be paid for work that I'm not doing.

 

One improvement I would definitely love to see is a more "24-hour" oriented world. Doctors and mechanics and other services are only open from 8am-5pm on Monday to Friday. How in the world do they all manage to get business like that? I don't understand it. When a mom has to take her kid to the doctor, she has to miss work and use vacation, or be a no-show at work. Not good. There ought to be a way to get a kid to a doctor at 8pm or get the car fixed. Likewise, there ought to be a way for people to work at hours besides 8-5. If people could get both their work and their tasks done without having the two things compete, that would reduce so much stress for the average worker.

 

Actually, I've thought that if I had a bunch of money to start a business, that's what I'd do: after hours services. Have a doctor/pharmacy, mechanic, etc... all in one building for people who work 8-5 and can't take time off. I'm betting that could make tons of money and help a lot of people.

 

Actually, that office where a string of women kept taking the job and then taking off had all kinds of doctors' offices in it. No pharmacies, but there are those on every corner. Would be nice to have a mechanic next door but zoning prohibits.

[preraph]

Everyone is entitled to take a year off because of getting pregnant

 

 

 

If a person got cancer, they don't have the same entitlements. It's ridiculous to me.

 

 

 

When I started my recent role, I was told to go easy on women A and B because they have small kids. They are constantly absent and their productivity is about half of what it is for other team members. Yet, they get payed the same. I am all for flexibility but FFS make up those hours.

 

Yes, it's not fair. Of course, it affects you and everyone else in the office who has to cover for them. And worst of all, it erodes morale. It's not like they're paying you any more because you're more reliable necessarily or promoting you.

 

I have to say a boss telling you to take it easy on them because they have kids, I'd walk out. That's a bad boss. Kids are optional. People need to be responsible for their own decisions and not expect everyone else to share the responsibility who didn't make those same choices and are standing on their own two feet. I don't think it's too harsh to suggest that people don't have kids unless they can afford it and can accommodate them without help from everyone, and certainly not their employer. I'm for more leniency with time off at work, but there's always those who take unfair advantage. But if you're giving time off because someone is a parent, you need to give it to everyone, or it's simple discrimination.

 

One day, one of the women at work brought her son up there after she was told she had to come get him from school. So the school wasn't putting up with him for whatever reason, but she thought it was okay to bring him to work. The boss told her to take him and go home. What choice did he have? He doesn't want to run a nursery at work.

 

Then we hired a new person in a good position that pays pretty well. She tried to bring her baby to work the second day she was there. My boss is really lenient, and I don't know what happened to her but she didn't last long. I don't think she lasted out the week. That kind of stuff is ridiculous. There's always alternatives, IF you have prepared financially for a child.

 

That said, there are plenty of mothers I've worked with who had their crap together and were organized and prepared to work like any other person and deal with their own problems once they got home. Which isn't easy if your kid is texting you every time he can't find the treat he wants in the refrigerator.

[preraph]

Oh, you know it would!

 

I work 9pm to 7am. I can stop at any 24 hour grocery or retail store on my way home for that type of stuff, and catch a doctor or dentist at the first appointment of the day.

 

But, night shift isn't for everyone. My vet has two nights a week where he's open till 7 pm; more of our necessary professional services should adopt such a strategy. I know of a few docs and dentists who have Saturday hours once a month, but it's not enough.

 

I'm lucky because I have a 24/7 vet now. There's always been some but they were exhorbitantly expensive, but this is my old vet clinic and they only charge a small upcharge after normal hours. I rent a car if my car has to go in the shop longer than a day. There's rental places (enterprise) that will come get you.

[Shining One]

Was that a health and safety thing? How often did that occur? Was this woman's only job to replenish the break rooms?

I wasn't given the exact reasons behind it. I was just told we need to borrow this staff member to help out because this woman is pregnant. She had plenty of other responsibilities, but anything that required lifting, climbing on a step ladder, or significant amounts of walking was passed on to other staff members.

 

While I didn't keep exact track for the entire time, I did clock between 1-4 hours per week. Of course, that was only for my borrowed staff. I don't know how often staff from other departments were used.

[Springsummer]

Two nutty people got a guy transfer to our team from another dept.

 

He took a paternity leave next day. He got the offer, but never even shown up. Now the office/cubical is reserved for him until he comes back next YEAR!

[amaysngrace]

Without children there would be no future so parents get rewarded for making their contribution to mankind and are treated with respect in light of that fact.

 

Parenting is a full time job in itself. My childless daughter has no problem picking up shifts for parents during holidays, even on days that don’t offer holiday pay like Halloween. She’s only 20 and has vowed to never have children but even she gets it.

 

Perhaps it was good parenting.

[Els]

Because being gay doesn't make you take a year off work and force your employer to find "maternity leave replacement" thus going through a lengthy hiring process all over again.

 

Because being gay doesn't make you lose all focus and be obsessed with the new baby once you come back from said 1 year leave.

 

Women that have small children lose all ambition, are constantly absent because kids are sick or have to be taken to place A, B or C thus making their "on" days "half" days, interrupted by constant phone calls. They tend to do the absolute bare minimum and are only back on track when the kids are school age.

 

It leaves people like me, that have no kids take the extra work load because we don't have "obligations" Maybe I want to travel or sleep in - but that's not considered an appropriate excuse.

 

I could go on and on.

 

 

People with sick parents do, though. People with higher genetic risk for medical issues like heart disease, cancer etc are more likely to have to take time off work or require medical leave in the future, too. Heck, even getting older increases your risk for the vast majority of medical complications.

 

 

Does that mean that employers should only hire people in their 20s with no parents or other family after making them undergo extensive genetic testing?

[Shining One]

My childless daughter has no problem picking up shifts for parents during holidays, even on days that don’t offer holiday pay like Halloween.

This is a different situation from what most of us are complaining about. First, she has a choice in the matter. She is volunteering to pick up the shifts. Some of us aren't given a choice, the workload is simply dumped on us. Second, she is being compensated for her time. Yes, she is missing out on holiday pay, but she is still getting paid for covering the shift. Many of us do not get paid for the extra time we have to put in to cover the slack created by parents.

[Els]

 

While I've never had a pregnant woman reporting to me, I've had my direct reports utilized by other departments to fill in for gaps created by pregnancies. For example, HR had one of my non-hourly (thus "free") support technicians refilling supplies in the break rooms when the woman responsible was pregnant but still working.

 

 

This puzzles me coming from you, especially given your strong feelings about women splitting bills 50/50.

 

 

You do realize that there are really only 3 options:

1. Woman doesn't have kids, ever

2. Woman has kids, and picks a "provider" husband who will financially provide for the family while she stays at home

3. Woman has kids, and works

 

 

Option 1 would leave the human race extinct in a short period of time if everyone did it. Option 3 leads to complaints that you mentioned. Option 2 you and other posters don't agree with either because apparently it makes the woman a "gold-digger".

 

 

What solution do you propose? We're still quite far away from being able to develop an artificial womb, and even then I predict the conservatives won't be supportive of legalizing such technology.