Women starting a new job while hiding being pregnant

[littleblackheart]

Not quite - fathers can do it for the older children, but women still need time off especially if the pregnancy/delivery is complicated. No way to avoid few months leave, especially for older mothers. I see this all the time in my job- women postpone getting pregnant to 30+ (even 35+) and then things are not smooth sailing.... When getting your final degree happens in your late 20s/30s, that's the toll to pay

 

Well, there are no guaranties at any age for a smooth childbirth - most of my friends had their kids fairly young, and 'smooth sailings' aren't that common, really.

 

Fathers can and do do it for any child of any age - it may not be culturally accepted everywhere, but it's a fact in most countries in Northern Europe.

 

Honestly, those having a bee in their bonnet about working mothers are getting a little too predictable, especially when zero concrete solution short of don't have kids / stay at home is offered.

 

Either you (general you) accept that some working women are going to have children and some will take time off and well, you stop getting worked up about it, or you enforce more equitable solutions like equal parental leave and / or a better adjusted work / life balance, and / or better management.

 

You can be a working mother and be efficient at your job - they are not mutually exclusive.

 

Luckily though, most employers can see the bigger picture and tend to recruit people based on skills, qualifications and what they can bring to the workplace.

[No_Go]

But that’s the thing - since it’s not a smooth sailing, even under the circumstances the father could take care for the newborn, the mother will still need (weeks even months of) leave before going back to the workforce. It’s not a gender discrimination but pure biology.

 

After say 4 months I’ve seen mothers and fathers taking similar roles in NL, usually both taking a day off per week, and a nanny for the other 3 work days. That way it’s no big deal, besides the inevitable first few weeks/months that the mother can’t avoid taking off.

 

But it’s sucks anyway- I feel like it’s never the right time to get pregnant ... Maybe earlier in life it’s easier because people have less responsibilities overall... and more energy. At 35 is mission impossible...

 

Well, there are no guaranties at any age for a smooth childbirth - most of my friends had their kids fairly young, and 'smooth sailings' aren't that common, really.

 

Fathers can and do do it for any child of any age - it may not be culturally accepted everywhere, but it's a fact in most countries in Northern Europe.

 

Honestly, those having a bee in their bonnet about working mothers are getting a little too predictable, especially when zero concrete solution short of don't have kids / stay at home is offered.

 

Either you (general you) accept that some working women are going to have children and some will take time off and well, you stop getting worked up about it, or you enforce more equitable solutions like equal parental leave and / or a better adjusted work / life balance, and / or better management.

 

You can be a working mother and be efficient at your job - they are not mutually exclusive.

 

Luckily though, most employers can see the bigger picture and tend to recruit people based on skills, qualifications and what they can bring to the workplace.

[darkmoon]

sad that a mother has to work, her schedule is always busybusy

[major_merrick]

I recently had a baby, and I'm returning to work in less than two weeks. I needed that leave time pretty badly. Where I live, you get 12 weeks. Unpaid. So I don't see how that is much of a hardship on an employer. It isn't like my company is paying my bills while I'm off. If I had to keep working, I'd be weak, sick, and pretty useless.

 

I don't think employees should have to disclose whether they are pregnant or not until it is obvious what is going on...employers just need enough time to arrange cross-training or some sort of substitute. It isn't like you're going to hide your pregnancy after about 6-7 months As No-Go said, there is never a right time to get pregnant. You just have to go ahead and do it. IDK why some employers expect people to be machines and run all the time. We're human. That means occasional sickness, bad days, life issues, and yes...pregnancy.

[LurkerXX]

I have no children. I have seen men more distracted by talking about deer hunting than I have women slacking off because they have children. I would like a place that would handle this gracefully as a part of life, and one that is attentive to new dads as well. I know it is more likely to be decent to me in the event that I develop a major illness.

[basil67]

I got a new job while I was trying to get pregnant. I was desperate to get out of my old job and I wasn't falling pregnant either. So I took a new job and then found I was pregnant. I did give them a good nine months though and worked from home a bit while on unpaid maternity leave.

[guest569]

I'm disgusted by the fact this is an issue in 2018. I would have a serious word with co workers who choose to make personal comments about the person and her pregnancy. For the record. I have no children. Never been pregnant. Probably never will be. But I fully support parental leave. Give this poor woman a chance. Maybe she will be a star employee. So you've probably got a few months to dig around for a temp while she's gone. Big deal.

[littleblackheart]

But that’s the thing - since it’s not a smooth sailing, even under the circumstances the father could take care for the newborn, the mother will still need (weeks even months of) leave before going back to the workforce. It’s not a gender discrimination but pure biology.

 

After say 4 months I’ve seen mothers and fathers taking similar roles in NL, usually both taking a day off per week, and a nanny for the other 3 work days. That way it’s no big deal, besides the inevitable first few weeks/months that the mother can’t avoid taking off.

 

But it’s sucks anyway- I feel like it’s never the right time to get pregnant ... Maybe earlier in life it’s easier because people have less responsibilities overall... and more energy. At 35 is mission impossible...

 

I had my second child at 35 while working near full time and studying for a PhD. It's perfectly doable.

 

 

It's not a question of time-off, less responsibilty, less work ethics, different priorities or whatever else.

 

The mindsets around parental leave and working mothers need to change in some countries - less judgement, less ready-made assumptions, more equality and more balance, imo.

[No_Go]

Everything is doable but it doesn't make it easy or comfortable... Taking time off a job or PhD just sucks, but yeah, it's inevitable for people that didn't have their kids early on... I'm in this boat - working in research with 90% (single) men, I'm just freaking out how I'll need to tell them once time comes to get pregnant. They'll not understand because they haven't been in any situation like this, not because they are horrible people. And startup world is so fast paced, I'll not even blame them if they replace me... Survival of the fittest modern version it is. Don't even know what can be done about it, besides advising women in child-bearing age to choose on stable, slow paced jobs with good benefits...

 

 

I had my second child at 35 while working near full time and studying for a PhD. It's perfectly doable.

 

 

It's not a question of time-off, less responsibilty, less work ethics, different priorities or whatever else.

 

The mindsets around parental leave and working mothers need to change in some countries - less judgement, less ready-made assumptions, more equality and more balance, imo.

[Mr. Lucky]

Women that have small children lose all ambition, are constantly absent because kids are sick or have to be taken to place A, B or C thus making their "on" days "half" days, interrupted by constant phone calls. They tend to do the absolute bare minimum and are only back on track when the kids are school age.

 

You could easily apply these same types of biases against the elderly, disabled, caregivers and those with chronic health conditions. If we're not careful, we'll end up with a bunch of middle-aged males running everything.

 

Uh oh, too late....

 

Mr. Lucky

[anika99]

I had my second child at 35 while working near full time and studying for a PhD. It's perfectly doable.

 

 

It's not a question of time-off, less responsibilty, less work ethics, different priorities or whatever else.

 

The mindsets around parental leave and working mothers need to change in some countries - less judgement, less ready-made assumptions, more equality and more balance, imo.

 

I agree. It's not easy being a working mother. My kids are grown now but I well remember the days of working and trying to take care of small kids. It was constant guilt and stress. The guilt came from having to choose my job over my children. I couldn't attend school events that happened during working hours, I couldn't stay home with them if they were just a little sick.i was impatient with them whenever they dawdled or whined in the morning cause ain't nobody got time for that. It was hurry hurry, get dressed! Where's your damn shoes?! Omg we're going to miss the bus! And on the rare occasions that I absolutely had to miss work or leave early because my kids truly needed me then it was more stress and guilt and dread at having to tell my boss that I needed the time. It was just constantly feeling like I wasn't being good enough.

 

But people who aren't in the situation don't understand that side. They see a mother coming in a bit late or taking a day off for a sick child and they think her life is a walk in the park compared to theirs. Like it must be so fun for her to get to take her sick kid to the doctor while they have to stay at work. They are people who constantly compare people and stew over who is doing what and who is getting what. They perceive others as getting something they are not getting but they have no idea what it's really like.

 

There are many parents where I work and when I see them rushing into work late in the morning because of some childcare problem or changing their schedule around so they can meet some need of their children not only am I not the least bit resentful or jealous, I actually feel bad for them. I think "I'm glad that's not my life anymore. I get to come to work, put in my hours with nary a care about what's going on at home. I don't have to stress about my kids when I'm working or stress about my job when I'm parenting"

 

It's amazing how freely people judge parents. They get judged for working and they get judged for not working.

[Simple Logic]

A normal Pregnancy is not an illness and you are expected to do your job. Although most pregnant women think they should be discriminated for.

 

Under Americans With Disabilities Act, the employer is only required to make reasonable accommodations for a pregnant women with pregnancy related disabilities to perform job duties.

 

Anyone, including Pregnant women, with less than 12 months of service or working for an employer with less than 50 employees have no protection under the Family Leave Act.

 

Under the Pregnancy Discrimination Act, employers may not discriminate in the hiring or employment of their pregnant workers, but employers are only required to hold open a job for a pregnancy-related absence the same length of time jobs are held open for employees on sick or disability leave

 

Once she states she is unable to perform her duties and requires leave, the company may fill her position and is not required to continue employment as long as the company has policy and a standard practice of doing this with all their ill or injured employees with similar time on the job.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Simple Logic

[nittygritty]

A normal Pregnancy is not an illness and you are expected to do your job.

 

Under Americans With Disabilities Act, the employer is only required to make reasonable accommodations for a pregnant women with pregnancy related disabilities to perform job duties.

 

Anyone, including Pregnant women, with less than 12 months of service or working for an employer with less than 50 employees have no protection under the Family Leave Act.

 

Under the Pregnancy Discrimination Act, employers may not discriminate in the hiring or employment of their pregnant workers, but employers are only required to hold open a job for a pregnancy-related absence the same length of time jobs are held open for employees on sick or disability leave

 

Once she states she is unable to perform her duties and requires leave, the company may fill her position and is not required to continue employment as long as the company has policy and a standard practice of doing this with all their ill or injured employees with similar time on the job.

 

That’s why it isn’t currently a problem for employers in the US but I can see why it would be a problem in other countries that have government mandated paid maternity leave for an extensive amount of time off.

 

Of course they are going to hide their pregnancy until they meet the requirements to qualify for paid maternity leave. It could negatively impact women of childbearing age employment if employers have more costs associated with hiring them.

[JuneL]

OP, would you mind answering the following genuinely without PC concerns:

If it's up to you to make the law, would you ban all pregnant women and women with at least one kid below 10 years old from working full-time? How about men whose wife is pregnant and who have small kids?

 

I am asking the latter question because I've always worked in a male dominated environment, and some guys whose wives have a career (and can't take care of all household stuff 24/7) also have some of the issues you described. Personally, I don't have kids and I have been asked to share more work because my male colleagues couldn't stay late for work due to their small kids/babies. However, if someone wants to use their babies/kids as an excuse to get away from inconvenient work, it's their character. I'm sorry it sounds like you have had very narrow experience with childbearing-aged working women.

[NuevoYorko]

No way to avoid few months leave, especially for older mothers. (

I've personally never known of a woman who had to take several months leave from work due to a difficult childbirth. 4-6 weeks is typical for a caesarian.

 

In the US men are rarely provided with family leave. It's not because of medical problems with women.

[littleblackheart]

Everything is doable but it doesn't make it easy or comfortable... Taking time off a job or PhD just sucks, but yeah, it's inevitable for people that didn't have their kids early on... I'm in this boat - working in research with 90% (single) men, I'm just freaking out how I'll need to tell them once time comes to get pregnant. They'll not understand because they haven't been in any situation like this, not because they are horrible people. And startup world is so fast paced, I'll not even blame them if they replace me... Survival of the fittest modern version it is. Don't even know what can be done about it, besides advising women in child-bearing age to choose on stable, slow paced jobs with good benefits...

 

Don't worry yourself too much. Granted, research is a still a bit old school but you can be a pioneer . I am in research and the only single mother - it's not affected my productivity or work ethos, and I don't exactly care how my colleagues judge me. More and more can be done remotely anyway so you can adapt your work pattern to your lifestyle.

 

IMO, it's up to the workplace to adapt to an evolving society; it's not working mothers' responsibility to make it easier for everyone else. Fathers should be given the option to do more in terms of parental leave without being stigmatised for it too.

[hippychick3]

I'm disgusted by the fact this is an issue in 2018. I would have a serious word with co workers who choose to make personal comments about the person and her pregnancy. For the record. I have no children. Never been pregnant. Probably never will be. But I fully support parental leave. Give this poor woman a chance. Maybe she will be a star employee. So you've probably got a few months to dig around for a temp while she's gone. Big deal.

 

Exactly.

 

I'm flabbergasted.

 

I've never had to take maternity leave but hold no ill feelings towards my many coworkers who have had to do so...even though I had to carry extra responsibilities as a result. I'm sure most women would rather NOT have to work when their baby arrives. But, for most it's not financially doable. Give them a break. Geez, all of us were born too!

 

Edited to add...I see VERY hard working mothers every single day at my job while seeing some lazy ass dudes with no children. Biased much?

[bathtub-row]

Of course they are going to hide their pregnancy until they meet the requirements to qualify for paid maternity leave. It could negatively impact women of childbearing age employment if employers have more costs associated with hiring them.

 

It’s actually legal to discriminate in reverse. For example, I was a manager in a small office and every single person was key to the function of the office. So, after dealing with a bunch of petty women who were young, vain, jealous, etc - and wanting my job because there was nowhere else to go within that company, I got sick of it and asked the employment agency if I could specify that I wanted to look at applicants above a certain age. And I was told that, yes, I could do that and it was the one place an employer can discriminate.

 

Now, I wasn’t concerned about pregnant women, although in a small office, that would have an impact. What I was more concerned about was the petty bickering that went on between the young women (aka immaturity) and the career-minded people who were constantly trying to unseat me from my position. I wanted women whose kids were grown or in college, women who were mature and who weren’t trying to climb up the ladder - they just wanted a job for the heck of it.

 

While I’m not on board with all this criticism about pregnant women working and not disclosing that fact, I do know the impact of that and other things in a small office of about 5 people. In that case, I made a decision to hire more mature people because I had had enough of the troublemakers. I also worked for many years at a large corporation. People going on pregnancy leave, etc was no big deal in the great scheme of things. I think hiring managers have to take those things into consideration when looking at applicants.

[preraph]

My boss had a whole string of women in a row that got pregnant as soon as they took the job and then had paid leave and then never came back. I don't like it and I think it's wrong to go into a job with the intention of just using it because you can't afford your own pregnancy. It makes it hard for other women in the workplace. It's one thing if the person has been there for awhile, but why take a job if you know you're planning on getting pregnant and then not returning? They just want the paid time off and sometimes insurance. Small businesses can't afford that stuff. The only thing I do like about it is it ought to make an employer want to hire older women...

[guest569]

The only thing I do like about it is it ought to make an employer want to hire older women...

 

Correction: want to hire men

 

bathtub, reverse discrimination is called discrimination. Avoiding hiring people because of their age, whatever that is, is age discrimination. Probably totes fine in the USA (is that where you are?)but illegal here.

[bathtub-row]

Correction: want to hire men

 

bathtub, reverse discrimination is called discrimination. Avoiding hiring people because of their age, whatever that is, is age discrimination. Probably totes fine in the USA but illegal here.

 

It's called reverse discrimination because, typically, older people are discriminated against. And the phrase itself clues one into the fact that it's discrimination, only in reverse. And, yes, it's legal in the States.

[Shining One]

If the woman in question is indeed being deceitful about when she found out she was pregnant, does the company have any legal recourse? I found this case in Canada. The woman in that case knew she was pregnant on day one, but told various people at the firm that she found out at a later (and differing) dates. She was terminated for lying and she took the firm to court. She lost.

[d0nnivain]

bathtub, reverse discrimination is called discrimination. Avoiding hiring people because of their age, whatever that is, is age discrimination. Probably totes fine in the USA (is that where you are?)but illegal here.

 

The federal government in the US does not recognize "reverse" age discrimination under the ADEA. It is perfectly legal to chose not to hire somebody under 40 solely because of their age. Certain states may offer greater protection. It's also pretty easy to cover up, citing somebody else's greater experience.

[d0nnivain]

If the woman in question is indeed being deceitful about when she found out she was pregnant, does the company have any legal recourse? I found this case in Canada. The woman in that case knew she was pregnant on day one, but told various people at the firm that she found out at a later (and differing) dates. She was terminated for lying and she took the firm to court. She lost.

 

You can terminate an employee at will for any reason or no reason, but not an illegal reason. Someone can't be fired for being pregnant / having kids. Someone can be fired for lying and/or excessive absenteeism.

 

I have always been of two minds when it comes to paid family leave. I understand it's importance because in an ideal world somebody shouldn't have to chose between caring for a sick family member or losing their job but as an employer I resent the fact that the illness of my employee's family member becomes my financial problem because I have to pay the absent employee plus I probably have to hire a temp to do the work that the other employee is unable to do so their problem costs me twice.

[bathtub-row]

The federal government in the US does not recognize "reverse" age discrimination under the ADEA. It is perfectly legal to chose not to hire somebody under 40 solely because of their age. Certain states may offer greater protection. It's also pretty easy to cover up, citing somebody else's greater experience.

 

It’s extremely easy to hide the real reason someone isn’t hired. However, in that particular situation, I was dealing with an employment agency and didn’t want to interview any more people under 40. That’s why I asked her if it was legal because employment agencies don’t comply with illegal requests.

 

Once, I interviewed a woman who didn’t really impress me and I cut the interview short. Just before leaving my office, she pointed out that she was of a particular religion - one I was practically raised in but left because it was a cult. She pointed out to me that because of her religion she was the best choice for the job because she was honest. I nearly choked remembering the pious, judgmental religion and the people who thought they were above the rest of the world. It took all my reserve not to shout at her to get the hell out of my office. Had I been interested in hiring her, she would’ve completely killed it with the religion thing. And she would’ve never known the reason she wasn’t hired.