Was she just after a free expensive meal?

[Gretchen12]

Free meal?!?! But you didn't tell her you were paying and we're not living in a war torn country where food is scarce. Why would you think such insulting things about another person? Your assessment reveals how YOU relate to people. Not everything in life is about money.

[JuneL]

She sounds high maintenance.

 

However, I’m not sure why you would tell her directly that she’s very opinionated. As a general rule, you don’t wanna say negative things about the other during the early dating stage. This can easily make things go sour, when you guys know each other well. Just pay attention and decide if she’s someone you wanna continue with.

[Daniel95]

I think that if she had any real interest in you she wouldn't make such a fuss about where you were going to have dinner.

 

Heck, if I'm invited to eat some homemade sandwiches by the woman I like I'm totally acepting.

[RedHead5]

The opininated comment would have insulted me.

 

She may be looking for a certain standard of living. That being said, what if she makes a good living and is looking for someone on her level? May not have been a case of her expecting you to pay.

 

Certain guys I dated would have NEVER went to a chain restaurant. Mind you, I dont care. I met guys for coffee and met one guy at a literal SHACK for a cheap burger. I never picked the spot but have been taken out for very fancy first dates.

 

I would not choose bowling for a first date. I think it would be harder to have get-to-know you conversations at a bowling alley. Maybe that's just me.

 

For whatever reason we will never know, she decided you were not her type. Lots we could speculate but I'd say don't dwell on it bc she wasn't the one for you.

[Larry56]

Max, you actually did the right thing. You are learning from your previous dating habits that you don't need to take these women out on expensive dates at all. You tested to see if she would be interested in going on what would be essentially a "free date" by her standards and she failed the test.

 

Some Women also look at it like this. If they aren't 100% attracted (like more in the 40 - 50% range) to the guy...it's pay to play, baby. If she were really interested in you.. a coffee date in a nice area would of sufficed considering she hasn't met you. She didn't want to do that because...

 

well she's a woman. She has certain expectations of what men should do for her but you certainly do not need to jump that high for a woman who you've never met. Continue with the coffee dates. You need to test these women as much as they test you.

 

 

She was testing and you failed. She asked what you were doing and you said:

 

1. Eating at nice restaurant.

 

So she though cool. Lets go to nice restaurant...and you mentioned bowling.

 

She immediately got turned off. Who cares if she mentioned she likes bowling. If I was her I wouldn't have went on the date with you.

 

In any case you guys didn't match. End of story.

 

Lol, she may of been turned off but who cares?? Guys you don't know you shouldn't be paying for your bottle service. She failed the test, he didn't get his time wasted. So it's really no ones loss.

 

Free meal?!?! But you didn't tell her you were paying and we're not living in a war torn country where food is scarce. Why would you think such insulting things about another person? Your assessment reveals how YOU relate to people. Not everything in life is about money.

 

LOL. Really? You've never dated a woman HAVE you?

 

Let's examine this.

 

Women act like they want gender equality in their relationships but they certainly don't when it comes to courting.

 

If he had gone to this expensive restaurant this woman (depending on what kind of person she is) MIGHT have ended looking at HIM when the bill came...

 

what exactly should he do then? Pay up $100 ..$150...on some woman he's ONLY just met?...Or..

 

Split the bill...and she's NEVER coming back. RIGHT??

 

He's screwed one way or the other.

[Ruby Slippers]

Her response was that it was the worst place in the area. That kind of shocked me and I responded something like "you're certainly opinionated. How about going to X instead?" That was another somewhat reasonably priced place, but actually a bit more than the original place. A few days later I checked and she blocked me.

OK, now I've re-read the original post and have time to write a more thoughtful response.

 

This is where things went off track. Her comment about it being the worst place in the area was rude and harsh. It's one thing to politely let the man know you don't like that place for whatever reason and suggest another place at a similar price point. It's another thing entirely to rudely dis him for his choice. Not ok, not good manners.

 

A man asked me out yesterday. We decided on Italian cuisine, and he listed off the three big corporate chain Italian restaurants in the area. I vastly prefer local, family-owned, non-chain places. The food is usually way better, ambience is better, and you don't get that generic mass-produced feel to everything. I politely asked if he would mind trying a local spot instead, said I'd do some research and find a few options. I did just that, making sure to find affordable spots at similar price points to what he had originally suggested or less, and we agreed on one.

 

Summary: she has poor manners and was quite disrespectful to you. You're much better off without someone like that in your life.

[Logo]

Let's dissect this a bit.

 

Some are saying that a 'fancy' meal at a 'fancy' place (whatever your idea of 'fancy' happens to be) is their way of testing if the guy is interested or not.

 

Others are saying that if they get asked to meet at a Starbucks, for example, they're not going to bother.

 

I suppose if the roles were reversed they would have taken their date to drink Tulip nectar at a place reminiscent of What Dreams May Come. Or better yet, fly him to Paris for a quick café au lait atop the Eifel Tower with a romantic view of Sacré Ceour on one side and Champs Élysées on the other.

 

Others are saying that if a man suggests a chain restaurant, it's not going to cut it because it's not up to their standard and reflects poorly on the man.

 

Now, here I am, thinking to myself, "Who cares about the food or the place"?

 

As long as the place hasn't been previously shutdown by the department of health or is too noisy to hear the other person, it shouldn't play such a critical role in the decision to meet or not.

 

The point of meeting someone for the first time, or even going out on a first date is to get to know the other person and see if there is some common ground or attraction.

 

Everything else is shallow, materialistic, reeks of a sense of entitlement and a high level of insecurity, not to mention an inability to judge a person's character.

 

Yes, lifestyle factors into it, but having expectations on the first meet or date screams high maintenance. You can call it "standards" all you want.

 

To be honest, I don't like chain restaurants, but if I were interested in a woman, I'd meet her for sandwiches at jimbo's sandwiches if that was her preference, and take it from there.

 

Also, if a woman needs to 'test' a man (and vice versa), then (s)he lacks the skills for a relationship and lacks the maturity to maintain a healthy one based on mutual respect, mutual trust and mutual love.

 

So to answer the OP, did you do anything wrong? No. Absolutely not.

 

I wouldn't have bothered with her in the first place because she took a long time (weeks?) to get back to you. She had other prospects lined up and she figured she'd keep you on reserve for a proverbial rainy day.

 

I'm going to start taking my dates to Arby's. I've never been to one, but it would be a good way to test if the woman is interested in me for who I am as a person.

 

[sarcasm]After all, I'm a terrible judge of character[/sarcasm]

Edited October 13, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Art_Critic]

I'm going to start taking my dates to Arby's. I've never been to one, but it would be a good way to test if the woman is interested in me for who I am as a person.

 

Isn't where you take a date and how you treat them kinda who you are as a person, if you cheap out and take them to Arby's then that is who you are.. ?

[elaine567]

I'm going to start taking my dates to Arby's. I've never been to one, but it would be a good way to test if the woman is interested in me for who I am as a person.

In the perfect world maybe but everything is a test and if you do that some women will reject you out of hand, for all sorts of reasons, some good some bad.

A date is an audition and if the actor has not learned the lines, shows up in any old clothes, can't play the part when asked, is sullen and passive aggressive towards the casting director, he is not going to land the role.

Yes, it is all bull**** and superficial, but people want to meet people that are like them, like the things they like to do and forge a connection.

Everyone has their own filters as to how they get rid of the people they don't want.

In days gone by, people usually met and dated people in their own social circle, now with the internet people mix with all sorts, but they still hanker after people who are their own "type", so they need to pretty aggressively weed out the rest. Date venues can be used as a filter, of course they can. Date venues can tell a lot about a person, they are not unimportant.

If your "date" is a person who prefers the finer things in life, regularly dines in nice places with like minded people, then a date at Arby's is not going to impress full stop, is it?

You bait your hook according to the fish you want to catch.

Usually you cannot catch big quality fish by dangling a worm... it doesn't work like that.

It is life, it is what it is.

[elaine567]

Isn't where you take a date and how you treat them kinda who you are as a person, if you cheap out and take them to Arby's then that is who you are.. ?

 

Agreed.

It is quick it is cheap, it screams "I don't really have time for you in my schedule and I do not rate you highly enough to spend time or money on you. Plus I am dating countless others, so I cannot afford to pay for proper meals for every woman I date, surely you understand that..."

[lurker74]

She was testing and you failed. She asked what you were doing and you said:

 

1. Eating at nice restaurant.

 

So she though cool. Lets go to nice restaurant...and you mentioned bowling.

 

She immediately got turned off. Who cares if she mentioned she likes bowling. If I was her I wouldn't have went on the date with you.

 

In any case you guys didn't match. End of story.

 

If this is failing I don't want to succeed. A woman who expects a nice restaurant on a first date is rather strange and a man who is willing to take a woman to a nice restaurant on a first date is trying to prove something that probably isn't true.

 

I'll take that failure every time.

Edited October 13, 2018 by lurker74
Typos

[RedHead5]

I think the first date, everyone should be putting their best foot forward. And it should probably reflect your personality a little. If you are fine with an Arby's girl, by all means, suggest that and you will probably weed out alot of women. I would probably be a little put off by a suggestion of Arby's.

 

I think it boils down to your tastes and lifestyles mathcing up. The guy I'm dating now didn't even take me out to dinner for a first date. We just met at a bar downtown for a drink. And then we proceeded to bar hop literally all night because everything went so well.

 

If the girl was repulsed by Friday's then that's her perrogative. Not sure why we are being judgy about her lifestyle choices. If you think she is snotty being repulsed by that restaurant then she is just not the one for you but it doesn't make her a bad person. There are men out there just as repulsed by chain restaurants that will be great for her.

[JuneL]

OP: Again, you should have asked yourself “Why would I want to be with such a high maintenance girl?”, much like you should have asked last time “Why would I want to have such a girl who is so unpleasant to talk to?” You seem to be putting so much weight on a girl’s looks that you’re trying desperately to please her.

[Logo]

My comment about Arby’s was tongue in cheek.

 

I take it that since you chose to focus on that, and respectfully express your disagreements, then you agree with the rest of what I wrote?

 

 

The above question is half tongue in cheek half serious.

 

 

Here’s the thing, I realize that there are social norms and that individuals are changing with the times — OLD being one contributing factor.

 

 

But women have the advantage because they still expect men to abide by and follow outdated norms, while women can adjust and adapt to the times as they see fit. Essentially, the message is, keep the status quo on your end, but we can pick and choose whatever social norms we want to keep or change on our end. Otherwise, you men, will lose out.

 

 

There’s no equality there. I want equality for all, in all aspects of life, but women seem to want to have one set of rules for men and another for women.

 

 

So when it comes to courting, women expect men to keep the old fashioned traditions that grew out of a patriarchal system all while the metoo movement claims to pave the way to a power structure that puts women on an equal footing with men.

 

 

So, what is this disconnect, some form of reparations?

 

 

I disagree that “it’s life. It is what it is”. I’m surprised that a woman would say that in this day and age.

 

 

How would you respond if a man were to say that about the gender pay gap? Would you accept, “It is what it is” for an answer?

[RedHead5]

My comment about Arby’s was tongue in cheek.

 

I take it that since you chose to focus on that, and respectfully express your disagreements, then you agree with the rest of what I wrote?

 

<SNIP>

 

Logo, with all due respect, I'm not sure what else I'm agreeing or disagreeing with besides the choice of a first date. I'm not saying it has to be fancy I'm just saying some women are looking for something specific and that's fine for them. If their choice doesn't suit the man, move on, just like she did.

 

As far as all the politics you just got into, I try to stay far away from that. I am more the submissive type when it comes to a relationship. I want a man who treats me like a lady. And I will give him the room he needs to do that and not try to run things. I can take care of myself and my children in all aspects but I definitely don't want a Beta.

Edited October 13, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Ruby Slippers]

The point of meeting someone for the first time, or even going out on a first date is to get to know the other person and see if there is some common ground or attraction.

 

Everything else is shallow, materialistic, reeks of a sense of entitlement and a high level of insecurity, not to mention an inability to judge a person's character.

OK, I can already see this thread is going to go 20 pages or more and get into all kinds of tangents about equality, feminism, me too, and other contentious topics. But I'll state my point of view, anyway, in hopes it's illuminating to someone. Please try to understand.

 

For me and probably most women, especially women of child-bearing age who would like to get married and have children, it's about a whole heckuva lot more. I'll speak only for myself here.

 

I'm serious, make it pretty clear on my profile I'm interested only in men who are also serious, open to marriage in a reasonable time frame once we establish we're a great match, and open to trying for kids with me. Not all women want to get married and have kids in the next few years - but all of us have it coded into our biology to seek out a man who is capable of being the provider during those critical years when we're busy giving birth and raising/breastfeeding/nurturing young children. Deep down, most women who want to be mothers don't want the stress of having to worry about generating income during those precious years.

 

In my experience, serious men who want to get married and have a family are 100% aware of this. One of the big reasons I have such a weakness for dating men from the old world - Indian men, for example - is that generally, they come right out on date 1 or 2 or 3 and tell you exactly what they want, and how they've been preparing themselves their whole life to be that family man and provider. They understand it's their task to prove to you they will make a great husband and father. How refreshing!!

 

I screen very carefully because I don't want to waste anyone's time. If a man invites me to Starbucks for a first meet, it screams "low effort". I'm just not interested in a man who isn't going to make a more serious effort than that. The equivalent for the woman would be showing up for the date in a tank top, shorts, and flip flops.

 

A week ago, a man asked me out for coffee, saying he used to ask women to dinner but feels he was taken advantage of. Why should I be punished for other women's mistakes? I'm not going out with any man to take advantage of him or get a free meal. I cook better than most restaurants I visit, and I can afford groceries just fine.

 

I'm only going out with a man I've gotten to know a bit and have a very good idea could be the man for me. My time is precious, as I assume his is, too. I'm not into meeting random men I don't know much about, making new buddies. I'm looking for the right man, meeting only men I think could see me as the right woman. So I get to know them fairly well through messaging and at least one good phone call before we ever meet. If it doesn't feel promising, I don't bother, so as not to waste his time or mine.

 

But women have the advantage because they still expect men to abide by and follow outdated norms, while women can adjust and adapt to the times as they see fit. Essentially, the message is, keep the status quo on your end, but we can pick and choose whatever social norms we want to keep or change on our end. Otherwise, you men, will lose out.

This is true among human beings, and it's true in the whole animal kingdom and always will be. Say whatever you want about "equality" - the males/men compete for the females/women, vie for their attention, sex, hand in marriage, and child-bearing. Be thankful you're not one of the species where one or a very select few dominant males claim ALL the females, and all the others get NO mating rights ever, unless they topple the dominant males.

 

This is the way it has always been in nature, due to biology, and it's the way it will always be.

 

Appealing, attractive women have many suitors vying for their time and attention, get sparkling invites to nice places for first dates/meets. Naturally, we select for the best men, the ones who extend invites that convey seriousness and good father & husband potential.

[Ruby Slippers]

I suppose if the roles were reversed they would have taken their date to drink Tulip nectar at a place reminiscent of What Dreams May Come. Or better yet, fly him to Paris for a quick café au lait atop the Eifel Tower with a romantic view of Sacré Ceour on one side and Champs Élysées on the other.

If I were a man, you bet your butt I would invite any lady I was interested in on a very nice date. I'd screen VERY carefully to filter out the time-wasters, gold-diggers, etc., and once I found a gem of a lady I felt was worthy of my time and attention, I'd make sure to show her my absolute best and make a great first impression.

[JuneL]

Let me start by reiterating that the girl in question is high maintenance, period. I know for a fact that there’re men who consistently go for high maintenance women, and it’s entirely their choice. I also understand that many of these high maintenance women put lots of efforts into maintaining their looks (it can be like a full-time job ), so it’s not like they’re expecting something out of nothing

 

That said, I’ve always seen this “equal pay” argument in contexts like this. In a work environment, everyone (man or woman, young or old, black or white) is supposed to provide exactly the same service to the employer, so of course there should be equal pay. In contrast, in the dating environment, most women are looking for a masculine guy and most guys are looking for a feminine girl; put differently, most guys want to feel masculine whereas most girls want to feel feminine in a romantic relationship. Both parties are looking for a different “good” in a heterosexual relationship, in other words. (Indeed, my gay friends always split their checks evenly from first date to and throughout their marriage.) That’s why this tradition of men paying more while women are doing the sweet cute things during the early stage persists.

 

My comment about Arby’s was tongue in cheek.

 

I take it that since you chose to focus on that, and respectfully express your disagreements, then you agree with the rest of what I wrote?

 

 

<SNIP>

Edited October 13, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BaileyB]

But it wasn't a blind date. They knew what each other looked like and they're already been talking.

 

It was essentially a blind date.

 

I've done my fair share of online dates. I've seen pictures and talked with people by email and phone. And then, we've met for a drink and I've said "Nope. This is not the one..." As they have done the same.

 

When I did online dating, I learned early not to invest too much time, money, or emotional energy into an individual until we have met and I knew, this is someone I want to see again.... There were just too many duds...

[elaine567]

How would you respond if a man were to say that about the gender pay gap? Would you accept, “It is what it is” for an answer?

 

 

I would also say "It is what it is" because in some sectors it aint changing and I can rail all night about how unfair it all is but it will not make a blind bit of difference. The world will turn at the speed it wants to.

Men paying for early dates is still how it is, it suits some very well, both men and women, that is why it continues.

Others not so much.

 

That traditional culture will not change because YOU want it to change, or because "It isn't fair", it will change when women stop expecting dates to be paid for by men and men stop paying for them, and not a second before.

 

BTW "emancipated", feminist women have been splitting bills for decades, it is not a new thing...

[MaleIntuition]

If I were a man, you bet your butt I would invite any lady I was interested in on a very nice date. I'd screen VERY carefully to filter out the time-wasters, gold-diggers, etc., and once I found a gem of a lady I felt was worthy of my time and attention, I'd make sure to show her my absolute best and make a great first impression.

 

And then you would be creating threads on LS asking why you got friends zoned despite the fact the fact you where doing everything you could to please the girl.

 

Stop pretending this has anything to do with being a good potential father or husband. It’s your wish for a certain lifestyle and the external perceptions that goes with it. Food for though: More expensive dates means less potential money saved. Perhaps the responsible man priorities differently?

[JuneL]

If I were a man, you bet your butt I would invite any lady I was interested in on a very nice date. I'd screen VERY carefully to filter out the time-wasters, gold-diggers, etc., and once I found a gem of a lady I felt was worthy of my time and attention, I'd make sure to show her my absolute best and make a great first impression.

 

But it’s easy for you to say what you would do if you were a man. You know, if I were a billionaire, I would buy each of my good friends a nice house. Talk about cheap talk!

 

The truth is, the OP doesn’t even know how the girl actually looks like. She could have used heavily edited pictures and may show up as an obese woman

[Ruby Slippers]

And then you would be creating threads on LS asking why you got friends zoned despite the fact the fact you where doing everything you could to please the girl.

I doubt that. The most attractive, desirable men I've ever dated have always taken me to the nicest places. These men are driven and it's not a big deal for them to take a woman on a decent date. Usually on the first date, they subtly communicate that they are more than able to provide for a family and I'd never have to work if I didn't want to. These are the men who rarely get friend-zoned, the ones women try hardest to impress.

 

Stop pretending this has anything to do with being a good potential father or husband. It’s your wish for a certain lifestyle and the external perceptions that goes with it. Food for though: More expensive dates means less potential money saved. Perhaps the responsible man priorities differently?

I'm an anonymous person on a forum. I have no reason to posture or pretend here. I also don't posture or pretend in real life. I'm speaking my truth 100%.

 

I've been wined and dined by millionaires and could have married a few by now, if that's what I wanted. Those guys still approach me, even at my age. I didn't because I'm holding out for real love, not a "lifestyle". And I don't give much of a damn what anybody thinks of how I live my life. I'm rather bohemian and counterculture, a nonconformist by nature.

 

I do want my children to have a safe, comfortable home and enough financial stability that they don't have to worry about health care and other expensive necessities.

[Ruby Slippers]

The truth is, the OP doesn’t even know how the girl actually looks like. She could have used heavily edited pictures and may show up as an obese woman

I think that's called catfishing. If I showed up for a dinner date and the woman looked vastly different than her pictures, I'd tell her politely I didn't appreciate being hoodwinked, wish her the best, part ways, and block her.

[BaileyB]

Food for though: More expensive dates means less potential money saved. Perhaps the responsible man priorities differently?

 

Of course he has different priorities, assuming he is not an investment banker with unlimited resources to spend.

 

It is possible for a man to show his interest without spending an excessive amount of money for a meal with a woman he barely knows. And a sincere woman, would be able to assess his interest and potential as a future partner without checking the total amount on the bill.

 

This is not about spending money on a nice restaurant, something many couples like to do from time to time as they can afford it. What we are arguing here is the expectation that somehow a woman will judge a man's character or interest in her based on his willingness to spend an excessive amount of money on a date - before they are even "dating."

 

I know, it happens every weekend... Men throw their money around trying to impress women and women mistakenly take this to mean that he is really interested or will be a good partner. Not necessarily.

 

Just saying, OP shouldn't feel the need to spend a lot of money on a woman he has not met in real life because a reasonable woman would know that there is a time and a place, and she would not be expecting that on a first "meeting."

 

But then again, what do I know... The love of my life bought me beer and wings last night and we had a wonderful evening together...