BaileyB Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 I’m sorry that you are not in a good place right now. Although I admire your desire to stay for the kids, I think this is why a lot of people separate rather than staying until kids graduate (or whenever). It’s like death by a thousand cuts when you are not able to make a clean break. Be kind to yourself and know, it will get better. From the movie, the best exotic marigold hotel - “everything will be alright in the end. If it’s not alright, then it’s not the end.” Take care. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 It seems you are wallowing in the pain. It won't help. You are correct... but I'll tell you why I feel like this... it's because she believes I am the bad man, by having a character flaw (irascible), whilst her 50% of blame is due to circumstances... menopause, empty nest syndrome, depression. I am a bad person she is a victim of circumstances. Should what she thinks bother me? Of course not... but it is... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 Be kind to yourself and know, it will get better. Thanks... it will take a while... see above. I will have to reprogram my brain after all these years of brainwashing and codependecy. I'm finding it more difficult than I thought... Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Giotto, you just have to understand that you are powerless to fix everything. I remember your old thread was about the wife being OCD. I would suggest that you are being OCD yourself in continuing to try to put this situation in order instead of just walking away and moving on. Glad you're both counseling. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 I would suggest that you are being OCD yourself in continuing to try to put this situation in order instead of just walking away and moving on. Glad you're both counseling. Yes, I guess it's codependency... next step in therapy will be analysing my behaviour and hopefully I will find a way forward... Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 next step in therapy will be analysing my behaviour and hopefully I will find a way forward... Do you have any other choice? You can’t go back, you can only go forward. Don’t spend too much time analyzing, perhaps a better use of your time would be spent working through the logistics of where you are going to live, what kind of boundaries you are going to develop in the relationship with your wife, and thinking about what you want for your future... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 And I'm leaving her because she's withdrawn the sex part from our marriage... Just read your first post from 2009. Seems the lack of sex has been a huge issue for you since 1999... I think you need to stop comparing notes with your wife. Seems to me she gave up on you a long time ago and stuck it out for the kids. This time, she was happy to continue the marriage only with no sex, which you refused to do hence the separation. Now she is "free", she is feeling a load off her back I guess... hence why she is apparently doing so much better than you. Women seem to do very well on their own, men not so much. She thought she was never going to be happy again, I guess she got that wrong... You made a decision and you need to stick by it and you need to stop looking back. The past is the past, you cannot change it, you cannot fix it. You stuck in there for your kids too. but it is time to let go of all of that. It all sounded to me like a lot of misery and torture for you both anyway... Embrace your new found freedom, you are a long time dead... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
notbroken Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 I think she found a way to get YOU to divorce her so she could be 'off the hook'. She wants to put the blame on you and you are allowing it to rest on your shoulders. It took 2 to marry and 2 to divorce. Blame doesn't matter. At all. All that matters is that you are divorcing/splitting. She will find a way to blame you. It is human nature. While difficult, stop caring what she thinks. It is totally (keyword) irrelevant. Forgive yourself. You aren't to blame for wanting sex. That does not make you a bad person. Period. You aren't responsible for all the bad in the world. Don't listen to her assigning blame. In fact, don't listen to her at all. Don't even talk to her if at all possible - and it is. There just isn't any help or joy for you there. You will be surprised how bright the future is once you change your environment and stop talking to your ex. Happiness is near - and it is not in her direction or in assigning blame. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 He blames her, she blames him. It is how it usually pans out. He needs to let it go and so does she. He is never going to move on if every second thought is about her, what she said, what she did, what she didn't do, what she thinks, what she is going to do next etc. It is difficult after such a long time together though, easier said than done. It just takes time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Do you know what bothers me? It's that she is miles ahead of me in terms of detaching. Realistically, she's been in the same place and justifying the same position for years now, so she has indeed had a substantial head start. My hope for you giotto is that, once on your own, you'll be a quick learner. None of the expectations you've had in this relationship have been unreasonable, and I'll bet you'll find someone willing to fulfill them in a way that works for you. Better days ahead... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Do you know what bothers me? It's that she is miles ahead of me in terms of detaching. She's clearly been thinking about this for a long time, whilst I thought things were getting better! Yes, I can't get over it. That the last ten years of my life have a been a lie. It hurts to see how she's adjusting whilst I'm still a mess. I shouldn't be, but I am. I guess when we will be officially separated, I will be able to detach properly. Not in a good place right now... You made that choice and probably grasped at straws only seeing what you wanted to see. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 Thank you very much for your comments. Sorry if I don't reply personally, to each post. Yes, there is no point in ruminating, or trying, once again, to apportion blame. I guess I can't help feeling guilty for my anger and my less than mature behaviour. It is what it is. I'm slowly accepting it and processing it, but it will take time. Some days are better than others. It's just that her behaviour was so confusing that I still don't know what to think. When somebody lies next to you in bed and says "I love you", what am I supposed to think? Then she says it was in the heat of the moment, nothing is black and white. So, I will forget all of this and start rebuilding my life. I will be back for another update! Thanks for your help... it's been very precious all these years. Link to post Share on other sites
Mysterio Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Thanks for your input... unfortunately, my wife is not the most talkative person in the world. When she told me she didn't want to have sex with me any more, to my pressing questions, she answered that she is menopausal and her libido is less than zero, even less than before. She hated it when I put pressure on her between 2002-2010 to have sex, although I was only asking for twice a month. It is true I would get angry. Not violent. Angry with her. I'm not proud of it and obviously I did some damage. I have a completely different personality and to me they were just rows... ah well. Now she doesn't want to get into that place any more, even if it's been 10 years since my last outburst. I thought things had improved... I was wrong. Giotto. If you and your wife split. Whats she going to tell the new guy? I don't want sex. What then. Sometimes I don't believe this menopause thing sometimes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Giotto. If you and your wife split. Whats she going to tell the new guy? I don't want sex. What then. Sometimes I don't believe this menopause thing sometimes. Many older women who are experiencing low libido and other problems due to the menopause, do not seek out other partners. They remain single. Or they find a man who has issues of his own around sex or has medical issues and only really wants a companion. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 Many older women who are experiencing low libido and other problems due to the menopause, do not seek out other partners. They remain single. This is what she told me and I believe her, because of her issues. Of course she might meet somebody else and they might get together, but I doubt it would be a sexual relationship, if she is prepared to separate because of sex... but you never know and I will never know the real reason. She never ever mentioned her mental issues as one of the reasons. I don't think she is aware of the impact. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 Giotto. If you and your wife split. Whats she going to tell the new guy? I don't want sex. What then. Sometimes I don't believe this menopause thing sometimes. It might be the menopause, but I doubt it. She was having sex with me during the menopause. Her libido is zero, but she could get aroused and have orgasms. Maybe she will do the same if she met a new guy, but I suspect she would end up in the same situation. As I said before, I will never know the real reason, but my best guess is that she fell out of love with me many years ago and stayed because of the kids... the rest is BS... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 Many older women who are experiencing low libido and other problems due to the menopause... As I said in my previous post, I don't think it's the menopause. It's just an excuse, IMO... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted September 15, 2019 Author Share Posted September 15, 2019 (edited) Update: we are separating. I'm going to tell my family next week and then it will be out in the open. Kids know, most of her family know already. But, but... she is struggling mentally, and a lot. I recently found a little diary where she talks about about her struggle, her low self-esteem, being fat and ugly. That she can't see a happy future. This doesn't mean I'm not going to go ahead with the separation - I need a break from all of this - but I was quite surprised by the seriousness of her mental condition and how well she's managed to hide it. I'm not going anywhere any soon, so I can keep an eye on her, but I'm worried. Really worried. I repeat: this is not an excuse to stay, we are separating. I just don't know how to deal with a serious mental illness. Edited September 15, 2019 by giotto Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 You can't fix her. Inform her family and let them deal with it or stay stuck. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted September 15, 2019 Author Share Posted September 15, 2019 You can't fix her. Inform her family and let them deal with it or stay stuck. I'm not staying stuck... I'm pretty sure her sisters know, but I can't be certain. I will talk to my daughter and she will talk to her sisters... BTW, she left counselling after 2 sessions. Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 I'm not staying stuck... I'm pretty sure her sisters know, but I can't be certain. I will talk to my daughter and she will talk to her sisters... BTW, she left counselling after 2 sessions. Not surprising. She doesn't want help so how can you do anything? You can't. All you'll do is let her pull you down with her. Let her go fully. If not you will stay stuck. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 I would just mention that her having to accept that sex was the most important thing to you in your long marriage was probably 1) hard for her to even believe at first and 2) very hurtful. It's really inconceivable to most women that sex is the most important thing to a man and that without it, there is nothing left for them. Because women do put so much time, energy and emotion into making a life with their man. But they have to have attraction to want sex. It's not that she can't have an orgasm. It's that she simply isn't feeling intimate with you anymore, whether it be attraction or eventually came to realize only one thing mattered to you that much and lost respect. I imagine if she met the right man, she would have sexual feelings again. Whether she bothers to do that, as Elaine said, is probably down to which way the wind blows after this long struggling in this marriage. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 I would just mention that her having to accept that sex was the most important thing to you in your long marriage was probably 1) hard for her to even believe at first and 2) very hurtful. Nope, it's more like ZERO sex is unacceptable. You're skewing this for what purpose? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I would just mention that her having to accept that sex was the most important thing to you in your long marriage was probably 1) hard for her to even believe at first and 2) very hurtful. Can't speak for giotto, but sex isn't the "most" important thing in my marriage. However, infidelity or the unilateral abandonment of sex would still be a dealbreaker for me. Not that hard to understand. I need oxygen to live but wouldn't be happy were you to take away food and water... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 I would just mention that her having to accept that sex was the most important thing to you in your long marriage was probably 1) hard for her to even believe at first and 2) very hurtful. It wasn't the most important thing, but one of the important things. We had 10 good years of pretty good sex until her mental issues took over. The problem is that she was very good at hiding them and wouldn't talk about them, so I didn't have a clue how severe they were. Was it hurtful? Of course. I made it worse, because she couldn't cope, but I didn;t know what was going on. It's that she simply isn't feeling intimate with you anymore, whether it be attraction or eventually came to realize only one thing mattered to you that much and lost respect. No, it wasn't like that. Do you know how many times I have explained her to her the meaning of sex for me. It's the intimacy, the bonding at the deeper level, all things we used to have. Then she pushed me away and she blamed me for getting upset about it. Instead of talking to me. But she couldn't talk to me because it's one of her deepest issues... not being able to talk about her issues. I imagine if she met the right man, she would have sexual feelings again. Whether she bothers to do that, as Elaine said, is probably down to which way the wind blows after this long struggling in this marriage. She told she doesn't want another man. Ever. She wants to disappear from the face of the Earth, be on her own. But until she finds a way to deal with her mental issues, depression, low self esteem, she won't even try. Believe me. It's very sad for me, but I can't fix her and she doesn't want to help herself. I'm very worried about her, but I can't be trapped in this anymore, it's destroying me too.. Link to post Share on other sites
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