elaine567 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Many women live with hotheaded men who punch walls, throw things, get insanely angry and they never turn a hair as they know over the years that is just how he is and he has no intention of ever hitting or harming her. It is by no means ideal, but she trusts him to not to take things too far. She is not scared of him. BUT guys who have been mild mannered and suddenly get angry are an unknown quantity, that wife has no idea how far he will go, she is not used to living in a climate of anger and so she gets very scared. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 BUT guys who have been mild mannered and suddenly get angry are an unknown quantity, that wife has no idea how far he will go, she is not used to living in a climate of anger and so she gets very scared. Fair point... I guess after the 4th time she wasn't scared any more? Jokes apart, why stay with me for all those years afterwards faking it if she was really scared of me? I don't get it... I find it difficult not see her reasons as excuses... if things were so bad, if she was so frightened as claims she was, why didn't she leave me? It just doesn't make sense to me. I still believe she is using her issues to blame me... and she still hasn't answered my questions... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 I'm not trying to make you feel bad giotto, just saying you should never dismiss someone's feelings about things like that. Sometimes, sure, they may just be grasping for excuses, but sometimes they may be telling you the truth. I think our issues were a little be more severe than that and I've been really really patient. I don't dismiss anything, but it's very difficult to deal with someone who bottles everything up and tells you constantly they are fine when it's clear they are not. You end up feeling hopeless and desperate. After a few years, you get angry. Well, I did. We should have separated at that time. We nearly did, but then she backtracked saying she would go to therapy. I never got angry after that again... even when she told me she wouldn't go after all. It was a very dark period of my life, when I kept slamming against brick walls, getting nowhere, feeling totally unloved and rejected. Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 At the end of the day why a marriage breaks down is irrelevant. Not because you cant learn from mistakes, but because the reasons are usually BS. Ex, when I was in a support group for "single" fathers I met a man who's wife has among her excuses was he was allergic to cats so she could never have one, her MM loved cats. Another one was because the guy played poker on Tuesday nights. I dont believe for a second that a woman in a loving healthy relationship with a man who isnt violet would fall out of love and into another mans bed because he displayed an uncharacteristic anger outburst that again wasn't a physical treat to her. There is more from her side that she isnt willing to own up too, like sleeping with another man. Once that happens any and every little thing becomes much bigger as they bounce blame off of them and onto the husband. Take it with a grain of salt. I'm happy for you that this conversation gave you some level of closure, although I dont believe closure comes from anything your former partner says. Link to post Share on other sites
FMW Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 My husband's anger issues for the last few of our marriage were NOT the reason for the divorce. And I'm NOT saying the situations are exactly the same, of course they aren't. My post was simply to address that one issue - how women react to a husband's anger. I was sharing my experience. Dismiss it as you see fit in view of your own situation. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 I dont believe for a second that a woman in a loving healthy relationship with a man who isnt violet would fall out of love and into another mans bed because he displayed an uncharacteristic anger outburst that again wasn't a physical treat to her. There is more from her side that she isnt willing to own up too, like sleeping with another man. Once that happens any and every little thing becomes much bigger as they bounce blame off of them and onto the husband. Where does it say Giottos wife has fallen into another man's bed? Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 I'm not minimizing anything, I'm fully aware that it does in fact happen. I know guys who have rage and angry outbursts and women left them for it. What I'm saying is when they start pointing out one incident that happened 12 years ago as the reason its usually BS and her not wanting to admit something from her end. It's not always cheating, but its usually something that is a her problem and she wants to make it an him problem. More often than not it is because of another man or prospect of another man. I didn't say it was the case here just using an example. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Where does it say Giottos wife has fallen into another man's bed? Isn’t it enough that she fell out of his bed? Giotto was angry over the lack of both sex and communication, so blaming his outburst for the disconnect is putting the cart before the horse... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Again, unfortunately its common place to ignore any poor behavior or lack of effort on the wives part here, let's just focus on how the husband reacts to it. The wife consistently spends more then they both bring in and if the husband gets upset then it's his fault if she is scared and falls out of love, or doesn't want sex anymore. Forget that she drove the anger, let's minimize her actions. It was done on this very thread. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Fair point... I guess after the 4th time she wasn't scared any more? Jokes apart, why stay with me for all those years afterwards faking it if she was really scared of me? I don't get it... I find it difficult not see her reasons as excuses... if things were so bad, if she was so frightened as claims she was, why didn't she leave me? It just doesn't make sense to me. I still believe she is using her issues to blame me... and she still hasn't answered my questions... Maybe she was just as scared to leave you in case your anger got worse.... If you want answers from her, do marriage counseling together. Even if you two divorce at least you'll each learn tools to co parent together and make life better for your kids. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 Dismiss it as you see fit in view of your own situation. I don't dismiss anything... in fact, it was very useful to see a woman's perspective on this. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 More often than not it is because of another man or prospect of another man. I didn't say it was the case here just using an example. It's not the case, but I see what you mean. She couldn't have sex with me, let alone with another man... seriously, my wife has pretty big issues, but she is rugsweeping blaming me for my desperate actions. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 Maybe she was just as scared to leave you in case your anger got worse.... If you want answers from her, do marriage counseling together. Even if you two divorce at least you'll each learn tools to co parent together and make life better for your kids. We tried counselling 10 years ago (she suggested it) and it was useless... she didn't like the counsellor and gave up after 3 sessions. Truth: she didn't want to talk about herself. Our kids are over 18 now, so they don't need parenting anymore... must be sad for them, but that's life. We don't hate each other and I will be happy to keep our friendship going, especially when we will have grandchildren... because I'm sure we will one day. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 Giotto was angry over the lack of both sex and communication, so blaming his outburst for the disconnect is putting the cart before the horse... That's why I asked when exactly she fell out of love with me. I suspect it was a lot longer before what she said... in fact, she was rather vague. No answer yet. Probably because she doesn't want to admit that she didn't want to have sex with me because she didn't love me anymore... we'll see. I gave her until Wednesday to answer, since I have my therapy session that day... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 I know guys who have rage and angry outbursts and women left them for it. She didn't leave me, but basically I put too much pressure on someone who didn't have the tools to deal with it because of her issues... I was too selfish and I made a huge mistake, but I didn't have any info... so I got it completely wrong... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) we've had a chat... yes, I frightened her with my angry outbursts, but she has forgiven me. She stayed for the kids the last few year. But basically, she is menopausal, suffering from empty nest syndrome and depressed. She says it's impossible for her to see a future where she is happy. And I'm leaving her because she's withdrawn the sex part from our marriage... This is all very sad and I feel guilty about leaving her... especially the part where she said she can't see how she can be happy in the future... Edited June 17, 2019 by giotto Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 This is all very sad and I feel guilty about leaving her... especially the part where she said she can't see how she can be happy in the future... What good would it do to pile your unhappiness on top of hers? At some point, you realize self-preservation is a healthy instinct. You don't add anything to your family, friends or life by martyring yourself to her inability or unwillingness to deal with issues... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 What good would it do to pile your unhappiness on top of hers? Mr. Lucky Totally agree... she is not going to get better, even if I stay. So, I can only suggest things and carry on with my plan... Link to post Share on other sites
bigman1 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Dude, she need hormone replacement therapy. Maybe it was mentioned before. Menopause wrecks some women...absolutely wrecks them and in turn, marriages. I've seen it a lot. It may not solve the issues, but the issues seem so clear. It makes sex painful for some, takes away drive, causes depression, etc. Also check the parathyroid or for hyperparathyroidism. That also causes some REAL major issues. Dang near psychological meltdown. Divorce may be inevitable, but so much of what I have read of your posts, and I admit to not reading all, but still, it is like textbook. Seen it, watched some close to me go through it. Literally dang near textbook presentation. Good luck. Also, angry outbursts are not really helping. I don't fault the anger, I just say that if someone expresses fear of you or your reaction then chances are that your perception of how it went is SERIOUSLY out of proportion to how it actually was. I was told that I was very intimidating. Never tried to be. But one day, a complete stranger told me that I was intense and intimidating. I talked to my family about it and they all agreed. I never had angry outbursts, but the look on my face, the intensity of my gaze and my size make me a scary dude. I had to be mindful of that. Now as to your outbursts, well, if a cop saw you doing it and would likely intervene upon seeing it, then it's too much. If it scared your wife, who had your kids, then.... just saying. Good luck. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 Dude, she need hormone replacement therapy. Maybe it was mentioned before. Menopause wrecks some women...absolutely wrecks them and in turn, marriages. She doesn't want to go down that route. Basically, she doesn't want any treatment or therapy. She is going to see her GP to have her dose of anti-depressants increased. Also, angry outbursts are not really helping. I don't fault the anger, I just say that if someone expresses fear of you or your reaction then chances are that your perception of how it went is SERIOUSLY out of proportion to how it actually was. She never told me she was scared of me until a few months ago. I agree, maybe I went over the top. It seemed "normal" anger to me, but we all have different sensibilities. I have apologised to her many times. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 She's also said that she would have probably behaved the same even without our disagreement... I guess, she is not in love with me anymore, she is depressed, menopausal and already misses the children, even if they will be here all summer... maybe she is disappointed that I'm not sticking around, but I need to stop this co-dependency. Link to post Share on other sites
bigman1 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Alright then. That seems to settle that. The end. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 The end. Let's hope so! Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 Little update after 2 months... not long to go until the official separation and announcement. I'm seeing a therapist. My wife is seeing a therapist. Ironic, isn't it? I must say I'm finding it difficult to let go. Do you know what bothers me? It's that she is miles ahead of me in terms of detaching. She's clearly been thinking about this for a long time, whilst I thought things were getting better! Yes, I can't get over it. That the last ten years of my life have a been a lie. It hurts to see how she's adjusting whilst I'm still a mess. I shouldn't be, but I am. I guess when we will be officially separated, I will be able to detach properly. Not in a good place right now... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
notbroken Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 It seems you are wallowing in the pain. It won't help. Get some outside activities (gym, walking, running, fishing, motorcycling - anything) and do them alot. Read. Do anything that allows you a brief respite from wallowing in it. Stay away from drinking/drugs. Accept your part in your divorce, forgive yourself, and move on. Obviously much easier said than done but you have to - and the sooner the better. Go 100% no contact asap. Can't do it soon enough. Quit talking to your ex unless whatever you have to say is so important it just must be done immediately - there are very few things like that. Quit making excuses to talk/deal with your ex. That's killing you. Get a decent place to live and make it your own. Do fun things. Eat well. Treat yourself well. Bottom line - don't dwell on the misery any more than necessary. Divorce is miserable enough. Go no contact and be the best you that you can be. Link to post Share on other sites
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