Els Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 An engagement is a promise to marry within a year. If you are only ready to marry in 2 years then you don't get engaged, you wait till the previous year of your wedding to get engaged. When couples get engaged 2-3-4 years ahead it's usually to shut her up :-) As someone who had a <1 yr engagement, I would recommend that couples give it more than a year, LOL. It's insane how early so many venues and vendors/dress shops book up, and how early you need to make your decisions, it's like 18 months is the norm nowadays. We had no idea at that time, but it would have saved us a LOT of stress and extra cost if we had given ourselves an additional 6 months. OP, look, most people aren't giving you the advice they're giving because of your long engagement or whatever. The entire thing is just extremely fishy in general. How is it even possible that a 32 yo man "doesn't know" that taking an overnight trip with a female friend would be upsetting to his fiancee???? That's like you kissing another man and then telling your fiance, "Oops, sorry, didn't know I wasn't allowed to do that..." 2
bathtub-row Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 When I was engaged to my son’s dad, we traveled to Europe a couple of months before the wedding. Shortly after that trip, I called off the wedding because I realized that I didn’t like traveling with him and I saw a side to him I didn’t like, as in - we were highly incompatible. Before that, very few issues. But I ended up changing my mind and married him anyway. After our son was born, those negative traits raised their ugly heads again and that incompatibility became stark. We divorced after 7 years of marriage. In retrospect, I can see clearly that we should’ve never married. I could’ve saved us all a lot of years and heartache if I had just walked away. I’m not saying your situation is the same but I am saying that if you see red flags, you’d be smart to pay close attention. I think I might’ve reacted as you have in this situation if I were back in my 30’s. But now? I’m pretty certain I’d walk away from a man who pulled this stunt. I’ve just learned things that sometimes can only be learned through experience. In your mind, this isn’t serious enough to end your relationship over and you have to do what seems right to you. 1
Whoknew30 Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 Well, OK... I guess you guys must be really young. I say that because a guy would really have to be completely clueless (if not down right stupid) to not see that this was not a good idea no matter what. Are you going to have to explain things at this level to your HUSBAND in the future? Because if I tried that with my GF, she would cut my nuts off, in a nice way of course... She did absolutely the right thing. Instead of jumping to worse case scenario...she had a clear cut conversation, issue was resolved & they move on. It’s called 100% healthy relationship goals. A husband or wife should be capable of not making every issue worst case scenario & talk breaking up bc one hears what they don’t like. If you can’t havw open conversations with your gf bc she’d go off on you...that sounds more like a troubled situation then a young couple trying to find their way. So if she has to have conversations with her husband, that are healthy reciprocated...we’ll thats exactly what should happen in marriage. OP...men can be naive...not every situation goes to worse case. You did the right thing by being open & honest & he did the right thing by being transparent. You tow sound like you’re going to be alright! I wish my H & I would Have been able to have such open communication when we were starting out...would have saved us a lot of years of conflict. Good luck 1
Zapbasket Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 Other than being more watchful and trying to notice any more red flags that might come up, I don't really see any other solutions at this point... If that's what you are comfortable with, then that's what you should do. Trust really is nothing but an assumption regarding another person's intentions and how that is likely to play out in their actions, the latter involving an assumption about someone's ability to translate intention into conduct. So, trust leaves us vulnerable...but without trust, there can't be a relationship. Mutual trust is a delicate structure that constantly has to be negotiated and re-negotiated, because sometimes our expectations of others we care about are unfair/unrealistic. This, in turn, sets the stage for being disappointed and disappointing, and sometimes relationships don't recover from these let-downs. Sometimes, too, they *shouldn't* recover. You said you feel like a "bitch" when you consider that the 22-year-old might have been perfectly innocent in all this. Watch out for this. You're not a bitch: your fiancé placed you in a position where you had to set boundaries and that's what I see everyone on here warning you about: beware that your fiancé's gaffes don't force you into a role of constant boundary-setting as it's unfair, exhausting, and incompatible with long-term success of a relationship. You sound like a smart woman, and I hope everything works out well for you.
act00 Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 Atsumi -- you're placing a lot of responsibility and "blame" (I don't know that blame is the right word here) on Hiking Girl when it comes to fostering a relationship with you...to make you comfortable. I think that's backwards. The responsibility lies on your fiance to pull the triangle together and make plans for the three of you to meet, maybe grab a drink or go for a hike or climb as a group. It is not her responsibility to ask for your personal information and reach out to you, nor is it yours to reach out to her. This is on him. He's the common denominator here. To be honest, I feel like he should have wanted to plan something for the three of you (or more in your hiking group or common friends) in order to introduce, and also because he wants her to know you and you to know her. We want our SO's to like our friends. It wouldn't occur to me to reach out to the significant other (SO) because I have formed a friendship with her husband/boyfriend. I would assume that he is in communication with his SO and they are both fully on board with this platonic relationship. While an overnight one-on-one trip might be a bit "sketchy" to me, again, I can only work on the knowledge that the SO is on board and is in agreement with this trip and fully trusts both of us. I could see myself suggesting to my engaged/married platonic guy friend, "We should all hike/climb/get a drink together some time. I would love to meet her," but I cannot see myself asking for the SO's phone number so that I can extend myself to her and make sure she is truly okay with his friendship with me or make sure that she trusts me. You shouldn't have to prompt him that you'd like to meet this woman, but I also think it is reasonable to do so...and he can make the necessary arrangements. He only hikes with her when you are not available, and I find this a bit sketchy. Why are there no meets when you are available? Why is this girl such a mystery? I'm glad you were able to talk it out and make him aware of his actions, and I hope things continue on the up and up. 1
Timshel Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 I've read all of this thread, this is my opinion. I was a climber and love it, haven't done it for a bit, it requires trust and respect. OP says her fiancee met this climbing 'buddy' online, took it up with her, ignored his fiancee's request to plan a trip with her....yet when OP will be out of the country for a week, plans a trip with his protege' for same trip that OP has requested. I am not sure that the young climbing buddy knows that her mentor is in a relationship. They haven't met. I would take her off the table as a culprit. As far as OP's fiancee being ignorant, pass. How would a man be responsible enough to ask a woman to create a future with him, yet blase' about a climbing trip (coincidentally when OP is out of the country) with some newly met chick? OP is fine with the online seeking out of opposite sex/ermwhoever climbing partners by her fiancee, without any cognizance that these women may be looking for more. Where online is he looking and why are you not seeking climbing partners as a couple? Anyway, it doesn't sound honest OP. It may be a blip but from the information you have provided, no. 3
hippychick3 Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 I've read all of this thread, this is my opinion. I was a climber and love it, haven't done it for a bit, it requires trust and respect. OP says her fiancee met this climbing 'buddy' online, took it up with her, ignored his fiancee's request to plan a trip with her....yet when OP will be out of the country for a week, plans a trip with his protege' for same trip that OP has requested. I am not sure that the young climbing buddy knows that her mentor is in a relationship. They haven't met. I would take her off the table as a culprit. As far as OP's fiancee being ignorant, pass. How would a man be responsible enough to ask a woman to create a future with him, yet blase' about a climbing trip (coincidentally when OP is out of the country) with some newly met chick? OP is fine with the online seeking out of opposite sex/ermwhoever climbing partners by her fiancee, without any cognizance that these women may be looking for more. Where online is he looking and why are you not seeking climbing partners as a couple? Anyway, it doesn't sound honest OP. It may be a blip but from the information you have provided, no. I agree. If my partner was on Facebook friending women who share a common interest and then meeting up with them to partake in that interest, he would no longer be my partner. 2
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 Atsumi -- you're placing a lot of responsibility and "blame" (I don't know that blame is the right word here) on Hiking Girl when it comes to fostering a relationship with you...to make you comfortable. I think that's backwards. The responsibility lies on your fiance to pull the triangle together and make plans for the three of you to meet, maybe grab a drink or go for a hike or climb as a group. It is not her responsibility to ask for your personal information and reach out to you, nor is it yours to reach out to her. This is on him. He's the common denominator here. I agree, BUT with age and maturity, this is something a woman, in my opinion, should realize and even be proactive about. I'm not saying this 22 year old girl did anything wrong, but a few years ago (and I've talked about this here before I think), I started Facebook messaging with an old male friend of mine (we went to high school and college together). The topic was running, specifically taking up running at an older age. It was 100% a harmless conversation (on both our parts), but he's happily married and I have never met his wife. We had only been chatting for a few days, but I decided to friend request his wife and include her in our conversation (she's a runner too). I didn't want there to be any appearance of impropriety. 2
heavenonearth Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 I agree. If my partner was on Facebook friending women who share a common interest and then meeting up with them to partake in that interest, he would no longer be my partner. Same. I just don't get that there are guys out there who'd do this. It's so foreign to me, a completely different world.
JuneL Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 It’s actually puzzling why he didn’t at least get a partner at his level.
Gaeta Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 OP said she was cheated on in her last 3 relationships. We often unconsciously pick the same type men. We see often, a woman coming out of an abusive relationship to jump right into another one, a woman leaving a cheater and her next partner is a cheater. RE: OP has 3 cheating exs. If I had been cheated on by my last 3 partners you'd bet my boyfriend wouldn't be hicking on weekly basis with a young hottie that is his type. Is it possible OP has again picked a man with wondering eyes and hands... Is it possible by wanting to play 'cool' she shoots herself in the foot. 1
heavenonearth Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 OP said she was cheated on in her last 3 relationships. We often unconsciously pick the same type men. We see often, a woman coming out of an abusive relationship to jump right into another one, a woman leaving a cheater and her next partner is a cheater. RE: OP has 3 cheating exs. If I had been cheated on by my last 3 partners you'd bet my boyfriend wouldn't be hicking on weekly basis with a young hottie that is his type. Is it possible OP has again picked a man with wondering eyes and hands... Is it possible by wanting to play 'cool' she shoots herself in the foot. This is so true. In therapy, I have come to realize that in the past, I have ALWAYS picked the same kind of guy to date. I dated about 9 guys (for longer than half a year) from when i was 16 to age 30, and literally ALL of them were THE SAME KIND OF GUY! They all either cheated or left me because of 'GIGS'. At 30, I finally broke my pattern and started dating someone who deserves me. I do think OP is pretty chill, considering her history with men. I'd be so anxious with a partner like hers... 2
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 Is it possible by wanting to play 'cool' she shoots herself in the foot. That could be the motto of my 14 year marriage.
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted May 31, 2018 Posted May 31, 2018 At 30, I finally broke my pattern and started dating someone who deserves me. :love::love::love:
salparadise Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) Just take a moment to think about this....if you posted about it thinking it wasn't a big deal, that's alarming in itself. I'm starting to think you are the naive one, not your boyfriend. ...yet blase' about a climbing trip (coincidentally when OP is out of the country) with some newly met chick? OP is fine with the online seeking out of opposite sex/ermwhoever climbing partners by her fiancee, without any cognizance that these women may be looking for more. Everyone seems to be thinking it has to be one or the other. Either inexcusably naive or a scoundrel trying to bang the 22 year old cutie. The cutie is either innocent or guilty of collusion... and then OP is being taken to the woodshed for not realizing what a cad he is and immediately kicking him to the curb. Too black and white. I think it's likely a gray blend of personalities and circumstances. Firstly, OP created the potential for this by identifying as the cool girl with the permissive attitude. Anythings goes if you use the word "friends," it's all good. Everyone with a brain in their head knows that same-sex and opposite-sex "friends" are not equivalent. People get sucked into fuzzy logic because of the ambiguity of this word; we think in words and when language is imprecise so is thinking. The English language makes it damn nigh impossible to avoid distinguishing between genders––zero gender-neutral personal pronouns. We have "boyfriend" and "girlfriend," in which case we presume they're schtupping... then we have "friends," which [to some] means the urge to merge is totally non-existent. Now, that's naive. Secondly, OP's boyfriend doesn't have to be consciously executing a diabolical plan to cheat in order for the possibility of being tight with an attractive 22 year old to be appealing. We have some hardwiring that makes spending time with, and being admired by, a fertile, attractive young woman feel really good (not unlike opioids). His conscious mind could be resolute with respect to his engagement, and yet receiving attention from this hot-looking young woman will still feel really good. And given that his fiancé is extremely open-minded and permissive, what's the downside? As for the gorgeous, single 22 year old, she wouldn't necessarily have designs on OP's fiancé either. Chances are that she just thought of him as a pleasant guy, a good climbing partner and mentor, not eligible bachelor #1. She has hardwiring too, but it tends to be much less deliberate in women... until it's not, and that's when things start heating up. Anyway, I just see it as the perfect storm, which started as an unspoken dearth of boundaries by all three, but especially by OP. A woman doesn't have to verbalize everything. So much can be said with just a look, and the way she conducts herself as well. A man knows what the expectation is. What this man knew was that OP was cool with him developing a relationship with this young woman as long as it fell under the category of "friends." The overnight offer fell into his lap, an extension of what was already brewing. But hell yea, girlfriend out of town so it's a great idea. It wasn't obviously out of bounds because no bounds were being set at all. Isn't linguistic ambiguity interesting? Edited June 1, 2018 by salparadise 2
Timshel Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 OP's fiance has been (hypothetically) honest, forthcoming to a point. What is his point? I think he has one. Maybe he was relieved that OP noticed and had a reaction. It isn't rainbows and butterflies to be cynical and discerning. Who wouldn't rather run through the daises and take every thing at face value. I would but when I do am quickly reigned in, lol. Atsumi, your fiance may have no intention to cheat. There is an intention though, as I would not dismiss this behavior as 'silly,' it's insulting to him actually. There is a signal he is sending that should be addressed. As other posters have suggested, there is no need to be cool with everything to a point of dispassion/complacency. Something needs attention. Have a date and quality time together and find out what that is. 1
fieldoflavender Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 Yeah don't be the cool girl. I did that and it blew up in my face. My ex's "female best friend" gave him an inappropriate birthday gift, and I did get upset but he wouldn't acknowledge it (like sure he apologized that I felt bad and he said insensitive things about it) but he never recognized it was a problem. Which should have been a red flag. Eventually he apologized and we fake resolved it. And then he kept texting her after that and I got really mad and he couldn't accept it. And then he had to cut her off because I asked him to pick but it led to more issues. So really - just recognize what you're comfortable in the long run and don't need to play the cool girl. It's your life.
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