He planned a weekend trip with another woman, that I am not invited to

[fieldoflavender]

Be careful, I'm sure you guys had more history but still. My ex had the whole "Omg I was clueless" thing about similar boundary stuff in the past too. I should have left him then but I chose to believe him then he continued to be clueless and it was useless and one of the major contributors to our relationship because I could not trust him.

 

So I don't buy the whole "Oh how could I not know it was INAPPROPRIATE".

 

Anyways you guys have history - be wary and watch him carefully. If it's a one-off then fine. But if it's recurrent, he shouldn't get a pass again.

[lana-banana]

Why is the wedding a few years away?

 

Do you have a ring and a solid date for the ceremony?

 

This. On top of an already confusing situation, your engagement is now "a couple years" long? I could see that if you were still in college or something, but he's 32. Do you actually have a ring and a set wedding date?

[Highndry]

I've read this whole thread, and while I think it turned out the best way it could have for you given the situation I'm not sold on the fact that he's just "clueless" at 32. I don't remember ever being that stupid, even when I was a teenager.

 

Maybe I just don't understand "climbers," but I wasn't aware that all of a sudden extra-curricular activities trumped relationship boundaries.

 

I second the recommendation to keep a good eye on this guy. It appears he had his eye on a young hottie and was getting a bit carried away.

[PegNosePete]

That said, I'm not planning on being stupid. If I see any red flags, I will take note and act accordingly.

Your posts here are FULL of red flags! Sure, no 100% concrete proof, that very rarely happens until you go digging. But certainly there are lots of red flags.

[losangelena]

I find it kind of funny that NO ONE can believe that a 32 year old man could ever be so clueless. Ha! Do you know men? I dunno, I work at a tech company that is 80% men, and I am surrounded by hapless, overgrown boys of all ages. They're not all that way, but jeebus, the 21st century male is coddled enough, especially in west coast urban America, that they can stay stupid, selfish, and unaware well into middle age. It is an epidemic.

 

Not trying to start anything by saying that, but I don't find it all that strange, what OP is experiencing with her fiancé.

[Zapbasket]

I find it kind of funny that NO ONE can believe that a 32 year old man could ever be so clueless. Ha! Do you know men? I dunno, I work at a tech company that is 80% men, and I am surrounded by hapless, overgrown boys of all ages. They're not all that way, but jeebus, the 21st century male is coddled enough, especially in west coast urban America, that they can stay stupid, selfish, and unaware well into middle age. It is an epidemic.

 

Not trying to start anything by saying that, but I don't find it all that strange, what OP is experiencing with her fiancé.

 

It may not be strange but the high numbers of "hapless, overgrown boys of all ages" doesn't change the fact that they don't typically make good marriage partners. What woman wants to be in a relationship where she's constantly having to explain to her partner why x,y,z behavior isn't appropriate? What relationship do we know that's successful when the woman assumes the role of the man's mother?

 

In OP's case, at the age of 32 her fiancé should have known better. Nothing about this scenario, even his response to OP's discomfort, suggests a solid, mature relationship ready to blossom into a solid, healthy marriage. Think how many things like this we see even just here on LoveShack: how frequently does this result in a happy ending for the couple involved? Pretty much never. Add to it all that the OP and her fiancé have no immediate plans to get married or even a projected wedding date, and I'm really sorry to say I think OP is headed for winding up single and heartbroken by her mid-thirties. (Sorry, OP.)

[Eternal Sunshine]

Also the fact that he said that he is just going to cut this girl off doesn't mean that he is actually going to do it. He will likely just go underground.

[Gaeta]

He has always been a very kind, intelligent, and caring man, and we get along fantastic. I have known him for many years, and I also know that no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. I certainly have my own flaws. His flaw is that he can be thoughtless, and can do things without considering the implication of his actions. Can this lead to some bigger issues someday, if he doesn't learn to be more thoughtful? Sure. But if this is his biggest flaw, I am willing to roll the dice because all the good things about him far outweigh this issue in my eyes.

 

 

I would not call that a 'flaw' but selfishness, immaturity, shallowness....

 

 

Being late often is a flaw, being forgetful is a flaw, being messy is a flaw, leaving the toilet seat up is a flaw but doing things without considering the implication of his actions is a negative character trait that could (will) lead to divorce...not a 'flaw'.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I would not call that a 'flaw' but selfishness, immaturity, shallowness....

 

 

Being late often is a flaw, being forgetful is a flaw, being messy is a flaw, leaving the toilet seat up is a flaw but doing things without considering the implication of his actions is a negative character trait that could (will) lead to divorce...not a 'flaw'.

 

I tend to agree. OP, in what other ways is he thoughtless?

[lakerman34]

You seem like a decent lady, but I don't know, this guy DOES sound immature, and this is coming from a guy whose girlfriend constantly says "you're such a big child" (albeit playfully).

 

Do you really want to marry a man who still thinks and acts like a boy?

 

I'm beginning to think that MAYBE he IS actually as dumb as you say he is. Still, in my opinion, doesn't sound like marriage material until he gets his act together.

 

I'm not a woman, but in your shoes, it would take a GRAND gesture (for example: a date for the wedding) for me to overlook this. Still yet, I'd keep a careful eye on him.

[atsumi]

I find it kind of funny that NO ONE can believe that a 32 year old man could ever be so clueless. Ha! Do you know men? I dunno, I work at a tech company that is 80% men, and I am surrounded by hapless, overgrown boys of all ages. They're not all that way, but jeebus, the 21st century male is coddled enough, especially in west coast urban America, that they can stay stupid, selfish, and unaware well into middle age. It is an epidemic.

 

Not trying to start anything by saying that, but I don't find it all that strange, what OP is experiencing with her fiancé.

 

THIS. Lol.

[Gaeta]

THIS. Lol.

 

 

I am astounded that you find this funny. As it become normal for the generation Y that men act thoughtless, careless, and juvenile?

[atsumi]

This. On top of an already confusing situation, your engagement is now "a couple years" long? I could see that if you were still in college or something, but he's 32. Do you actually have a ring and a set wedding date?

 

I don't plan on going into every detail of our personal lives because it's not related to this thread. But since a few of you have now raised this question and made assumptions about us not having a wedding date, the engagement being too long, etc... I have a gorgeous ring, and we have a date, which is 2 years away. The engagement is exactly as long as it needs to be, and we have numerous personal, financial, and other reasons why we decided to schedule the wedding when we did. It seems that people tend to get really alarmed by a 1+ year engagement, but everyone's circumstances are different. Some couples elope in Vegas after a few months of dating and skip the engagement completely, while others have a 3-4 year-long engagement. Both situations can be perfectly healthy and appropriate - there's no magic number of months being engaged before the wedding that works for everyone.

[atsumi]

I am astounded that you find this funny. As it become normal for the generation Y that men act thoughtless, careless, and juvenile?

 

Actually, we count as millenials. And I certainly don't think that my generation is any worse than generations before when it comes to men acting thoughtless and juvenile (caveat - not all men, and not in every situation). It's a tale as old as time.

[atsumi]

I tend to agree. OP, in what other ways is he thoughtless?

 

He isn't thoughtless as a general rule, that's what I mentioned in a previous post - I'm very happy with our relationship overall. This has definitely been the biggest issue that has come up so far.

[Gaeta]

I don't plan on going into every detail of our personal lives because it's not related to this thread. But since a few of you have now raised this question and made assumptions about us not having a wedding date, the engagement being too long, etc... I have a gorgeous ring, and we have a date, which is 2 years away. The engagement is exactly as long as it needs to be, and we have numerous personal, financial, and other reasons why we decided to schedule the wedding when we did. It seems that people tend to get really alarmed by a 1+ year engagement, but everyone's circumstances are different. Some couples elope in Vegas after a few months of dating and skip the engagement completely, while others have a 3-4 year-long engagement. Both situations can be perfectly healthy and appropriate - there's no magic number of months being engaged before the wedding that works for everyone.

 

 

An engagement is a promise to marry within a year. If you are only ready to marry in 2 years then you don't get engaged, you wait till the previous year of your wedding to get engaged.

 

 

 

When couples get engaged 2-3-4 years ahead it's usually to shut her up :-)

[atsumi]

It may not be strange but the high numbers of "hapless, overgrown boys of all ages" doesn't change the fact that they don't typically make good marriage partners. What woman wants to be in a relationship where she's constantly having to explain to her partner why x,y,z behavior isn't appropriate? What relationship do we know that's successful when the woman assumes the role of the man's mother?

 

In OP's case, at the age of 32 her fiancé should have known better. Nothing about this scenario, even his response to OP's discomfort, suggests a solid, mature relationship ready to blossom into a solid, healthy marriage. Think how many things like this we see even just here on LoveShack: how frequently does this result in a happy ending for the couple involved? Pretty much never. Add to it all that the OP and her fiancé have no immediate plans to get married or even a projected wedding date, and I'm really sorry to say I think OP is headed for winding up single and heartbroken by her mid-thirties. (Sorry, OP.)

 

I see that you make quite a few assumptions, and you know what they say about assuming...

[Gaeta]

Actually, we count as millenials. And I certainly don't think that my generation is any worse than generations before when it comes to men acting thoughtless and juvenile (caveat - not all men, and not in every situation). It's a tale as old as time.

 

 

FYI: generation Y and millennial is the same.

[lakerman34]

All I can say is, I hope this all works out. For everyone's sake, I hope it was just a serious, stupid lapse of judgment by your fiancee.

 

I can ALSO say that, having been on this sight since 2012, there are MANY times (perhaps most times) where LSers hit the 'panic' button and automatically think that your relationship is at an end, and their insight is useless.

 

With all of that being said, calling something what it is, your fiancee is dumb. Guys don't make the mistake that he made. Outside of this REALLY dumb mistake, we know nothing else about the guy. Still, your best bet is to watch your financials, play a little bit of PI, and make sure that there are no other women. I wouldn't be surprised if there are.

[atsumi]

An engagement is a promise to marry within a year. If you are only ready to marry in 2 years then you don't get engaged, you wait till the previous year of your wedding to get engaged.

 

 

 

When couples get engaged 2-3-4 years ahead it's usually to shut her up :-)

 

Mind stating your sources for this information?

 

Google:

en·gage·ment

inˈɡājmənt,enˈɡājmənt/

noun

1.

a formal agreement to get married.

synonyms: marriage contract

 

I don't see any time span as part of this definition... According to surveys, the average engagement is 14.5 months long. What works for you does not necessarily work for everyone else. And trust me, he didn't need to shut me up about anything, proposing was 100% his idea. In fact, he'd happily go to the courthouse with me tomorrow and sign the papers, if that was the only factor in the equation. I think you should be a little more open-minded about the fact that different people have different life circumstances, and we all try to make them work in the best way we can.

[JuneL]

Just skimmed through the thread. I can’t say for sure whether your fiance has a crush on this cute young girl or not, but it’s quite obvious he enjoys climbing much more with her.

[atsumi]

All I can say is, I hope this all works out. For everyone's sake, I hope it was just a serious, stupid lapse of judgment by your fiancee.

 

I can ALSO say that, having been on this sight since 2012, there are MANY times (perhaps most times) where LSers hit the 'panic' button and automatically think that your relationship is at an end, and their insight is useless.

 

With all of that being said, calling something what it is, your fiancee is dumb. Guys don't make the mistake that he made. Outside of this REALLY dumb mistake, we know nothing else about the guy. Still, your best bet is to watch your financials, play a little bit of PI, and make sure that there are no other women. I wouldn't be surprised if there are.

 

Thanks for the advice, and I agree that 1) he acted really dumb and 2) there's a fair number of alarmist responses I'm seeing here. Definitely didn't intend to start such a heated discussion with my original post....

[Zapbasket]

He isn't thoughtless as a general rule, that's what I mentioned in a previous post - I'm very happy with our relationship overall. This has definitely been the biggest issue that has come up so far.

 

The thing is, the issue that started this thread isn't just an act of "thoughtlessness." It's a really big deal that should be setting off huge alarm bells in your head. Otherwise wonderful spouses cheat, and it's not always some malicious, planned-out thing. They never wanted to deceive or hurt their spouse, but got in over their head. But even that one instance--even if it never happens again--is like a single drop of grape juice in a glass of water: the water is never clear again.

 

The mess he made with this is bigger than only you. What about the girl who thought she had a regular climbing partner, who was looking forward to the trip? I'm an outdoor enthusiast, too, and so I know how rare and wonderful it is when you find an activity partner of a similar skill level, level of risk awareness, similar activity goals, compatible schedules, etc. At the least I'm sure she was disappointed when your fiancé called off not only the trip but their entire regular climbing arrangement. And she might have felt worse, too--maybe she had a crush on your fiancé; maybe she didn't even know he was someone's fiance or maybe she was led to believe his being engaged wasn't something to worry about.

 

I know how strong the desire is to overlook faults in someone you love, and to scoff at the opinions of strangers over the internet. Obviously no one knows your relationship as well as you do, and only you know what you're willing to tolerate in a relationship. There's no right or wrong here, and people do slip up. But chronic lack of awareness of the impact of one's actions--for the short-term, it's bearable, but for a lifetime? And I think what many of us are questioning is how capable someone is of learning better awareness of what constitutes appropriate behavior in a committed relationship when he's already 32 and has committed as huge a gaffe as this one.

[heavenonearth]

An engagement is a promise to marry within a year. If you are only ready to marry in 2 years then you don't get engaged, you wait till the previous year of your wedding to get engaged.

 

 

 

When couples get engaged 2-3-4 years ahead it's usually to shut her up :-)

 

Well I often agree with you on this forum, but I think this is a silly explanation!

 

I mean, some people really want to get married but don't have the means or logistics to plan it within a year. Circumstances are different for many.

I don't see a problem with someone asking their partner to get married, knowing that this is what they want, and waiting until they are able to create their perfect wedding, even if it takes 2-3 years.

 

Also, some people date for 6+ years and then decide to get married.

 

Also, to 'shut her up'? Really? A bit sexist, don't you think?

You are pretty much implying that women who are engaged 2+ years before marriage, had been begging for it ad nauseam.

Generalizations much?

[Zapbasket]

I see that you make quite a few assumptions, and you know what they say about assuming...

 

Indeed. But...my assumptions here cost me nothing. It's not my relationship. You, too, are making a lot of assumptions, so, again, yes: you do know what they say about assuming. Also that old adage, "Fool me once...."