hippychick3 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 I'm glad to hear the update and that he made the changes he did. I hope they are sincere. I still have trouble believing it never entered his head that going away with a 22-year-old girl while engaged to a 32-year-old woman might be disrespectful, at the very least, to you. I don't' think he was deliberately being malicious either, but he should have had the good sense and judgment to immediately say NO when she asked him. I wonder what kind of vibe they had going during their weekly climbs for her to even have the gall to ask another woman's fiance on a weekend trip! This is what I wonder as well. I get that she is much younger, but I'm pretty sure at the age of 22 I would not have invited another woman's fiance on a trip with me expecting he would go...unless he had been flirting heavily with me (and I was THAT kind of girl). I'm glad he changed his plans and listened to your concerns. But, his lack of good judgment and good boundaries would really bother me. I'd keep my eyes and ears open at all times with your fiance. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 This is what I wonder as well. I get that she is much younger, but I'm pretty sure at the age of 22 I would not have invited another woman's fiance on a trip with me expecting he would go...unless he had been flirting heavily with me (and I was THAT kind of girl). I'm glad he changed his plans and listened to your concerns. But, his lack of good judgment and good boundaries would really bother me. I'd keep my eyes and ears open at all times with your fiance. Yes, exactly. I don't buy his "I couldn't have known this would bother you!" story. That is a load of malarkey. He was toying with boundaries, and back-tracked when OP called him out on it. My sense is that there is a crush between these two, but he's had a reality check and hopefully realized just what he was risking by pushing the envelope. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
marky00 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 As far as the issue with his female climbing partner, he said that he didn't think about how going on a trip with a woman I had never met might be inappropriate / crossing boundaries. rolls eyes 1 Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 So now he will carry on seeing her, but he will be sneaky and delete all the evidence so you'll never find out. Get regular STD checks, OP. Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Clavel Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 So now he will carry on seeing her, but he will be sneaky and delete all the evidence so you'll never find out. Like 7char Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 He told me that he is not going to climb with this girl anymore because he doesn't want me to be uncomfortable (even though I didn't say anything about forbidding him from climbing with her). He then canceled all his plans with her, rescheduled his weekly climbing appointments to go with a male friend instead, and started planning the summer weekend trip with me. Total and complete capitulation without so much as a single defensive statement as to there not being anything inappropriate going on between them? No questioning the implication of opposite-sex friends being unacceptable, innate morality and character or anything... like flipping a light switch, she's gone. One extreme to the other without so much as an utterance of self-advocacy. Hmmm. I think you should've asked for a new Lamborghini while you were at it. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Total and complete capitulation without so much as a single defensive statement as to there not being anything inappropriate going on between them? No questioning the implication of opposite-sex friends being unacceptable, innate morality and character or anything... like flipping a light switch, she's gone. One extreme to the other without so much as an utterance of self-advocacy. Hmmm. I think you should've asked for a new Lamborghini while you were at it. Very insightful. He reacted just like someone caught with his hand in the bag. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
lana-banana Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Either he: 1) Is so naive he had no idea that this entire sequence of events would upset you (at his age, beyond unlikely); 2) Realized he was playing with fire and decided he values you more than this chick and put all your fears to rest; or 3) Has reason to feel guilty and is slashing and burning before you can confirm any of your suspicions. I have no idea which it is. But I'm with sal. As good as it is that he recognized what he did was wrong and remedied it appropriately, the sudden switch from extremes is odd in its own right. I personally would have asked for a 36-inch Viking range. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 This whole thing is fishier than the fisherman's wharf at 6am. Really bizarre, OP. I'd keep my eyes and ears wide open, if you stay with him. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author atsumi Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 So now he will carry on seeing her, but he will be sneaky and delete all the evidence so you'll never find out. Get regular STD checks, OP. I mean, yea. I could just assume that he's currently cheating, physically or emotionally or both. Or that he will cheat in the future. I can't really live my life like that, though - if I always assume the worst, how do I ever know that my SO is being faithful? Guilty until proven innocent? It would slowly drive me crazy to live with constant suspicions. I had another thread here a while ago, which ended up getting many pages of responses, about how I was cheated on by an ex-fiance. In that case, I had also given him the benefit of the doubt, until I found concrete proof that he was a cheater and a psychopath... at which point I bounced and never looked back. The guy I'm with now is different in pretty much every way, and I've known him for 9 years now. I guess I'll just have to make peace with the fact that relationships require an inherent amount of trust, and that I can't read his mind to find out whether he's really faithful or not. That said, I'm not planning on being stupid. If I see any red flags, I will take note and act accordingly. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author atsumi Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Total and complete capitulation without so much as a single defensive statement as to there not being anything inappropriate going on between them? No questioning the implication of opposite-sex friends being unacceptable, innate morality and character or anything... like flipping a light switch, she's gone. One extreme to the other without so much as an utterance of self-advocacy. Hmmm. I think you should've asked for a new Lamborghini while you were at it. I shortened the conversation I had with him, to avoid writing a novel. He did defend himself by saying that he would never even think of doing anything inappropriate with the other girl, because I have always been his priority. To be fair, he had pursued me for 3 years before we started dating (it's a long story), even though he had plenty of other options in that time. I know this doesn't guarantee infinite future faithfulness, but it's something. He also said that if I don't like him having female friends, it's my right to feel that way and he wants me to tell him that. Basically, he made it sound like he would not want to jeopardize his relationship with me over his friendship with another woman, so he would have no issue dropping the other friendship if I had a problem with it. I don't know how sincere he was really being, but either way, I don't plan on demanding that he completely avoids having female friends. I just told him that his actions were making me become suspicious/resentful of his female climbing friend, and he said that he "doesn't care about her" and would find a new (male) climbing partner. And lol, a new Lambo would sure be nice. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 An update on my situation - over the weekend, I had a long and eye-opening conversation with my fiance. I walked away with the conclusion that he was really being quite naive, thoughtless, and inconsiderate, rather than actively malicious or shady. When I explained to him that I was hurt by the fact that he was planning a trip without me, he admitted that he was being selfish because he just wanted to go on the trip as soon as possible. He was thinking that he would be able to go on another climbing trip with me later in the summer, and admitted that this was an unrealistic hope given his work schedule. As far as the issue with his female climbing partner, he said that he didn't think about how going on a trip with a woman I had never met might be inappropriate / crossing boundaries. Sounds hard to believe, I know - but he really can be very clueless at times. He showed me their messages - apparently she had invited him on this trip, and it was not really clear whether or not other people would be coming or not (the other friend of hers was cc'ed on the thread). When I told him that I considered a trip like this inappropriate in this situation, he was very apologetic and seemed sincerely upset that he had acted in a way that I perceived as sketchy. He told me that he is not going to climb with this girl anymore because he doesn't want me to be uncomfortable (even though I didn't say anything about forbidding him from climbing with her). He then rescheduled his other weekly climbing plans, so that he could go with a male coworker instead. He had never climbed with this coworker before, but said that he recently found out this guy is a fellow climber, and should have asked him earlier instead of looking online for partners. Long story short, he was extremely apologetic about both not planning a trip with me, trying to plan it when I couldn't join, and acting in a sketchy way with this 22 year old girl. He then canceled all his plans with her, rescheduled his weekly climbing appointments to go with a male friend instead, and started planning the summer weekend trip with me. All in all, I am satisfied with this course of action. Obviously he could still be trying to lie or minimize the situation to me, but there is no way I could know that, and I chose to believe him. Think about this... he's not grown up to even consider marrying! You should NOT need to lead him around to make decisions! He may never grow up. Do NOT marry him! Link to post Share on other sites
Author atsumi Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Either he: 1) Is so naive he had no idea that this entire sequence of events would upset you (at his age, beyond unlikely); 2) Realized he was playing with fire and decided he values you more than this chick and put all your fears to rest; or 3) Has reason to feel guilty and is slashing and burning before you can confirm any of your suspicions. I have no idea which it is. But I'm with sal. As good as it is that he recognized what he did was wrong and remedied it appropriately, the sudden switch from extremes is odd in its own right. I personally would have asked for a 36-inch Viking range. This is a really good summary, and I agree that it's probably one of these 3 options. Which one?? I have no idea.... I personally think that it's #2. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Tell me - why would you plan to marry a man (boy) who is incapable of considering how his actions affect YOUR feelings? You will have a lifetime of this - that makes for a VERY long life of misery! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author atsumi Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 This is what I wonder as well. I get that she is much younger, but I'm pretty sure at the age of 22 I would not have invited another woman's fiance on a trip with me expecting he would go...unless he had been flirting heavily with me (and I was THAT kind of girl). I'm glad he changed his plans and listened to your concerns. But, his lack of good judgment and good boundaries would really bother me. I'd keep my eyes and ears open at all times with your fiance. I'm still torn on what to believe. On the one hand, maybe this 22 year old girl was trying to make moves on my man, in which case, good riddance (assuming he is really cutting her off). On the other hand, maybe she was just naive, had no idea that inviting him might seem inappropriate, and she was actually just looking for someone to go climb with. If I were in her shoes, I would never be clueless enough to think that inviting an engaged man on a trip, without even bothering to speak with his fiance first, is OK - UNLESS I was trying to reel him in. But who knows. Maybe she just has poor social skills / manners. I agree that his lack of good judgment and inability to see the boundaries is concerning. No one is perfect, but I guess that I'll need to be on the lookout for red flags... Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Can you answer my question? Link to post Share on other sites
heavenonearth Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I am still puzzled by this whole story! If my boyfriend would pull something like this, I'd be really, really pissed. You seem to be so cool about this... like 'ok, he apologized, all is good again'! How can any man be so clueless? And how would any woman want to be with a man who is this clueless? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 It’s completely irrelevant whether the girl made moves on him or not. Nor is it relevant that your fiancé has female friends. But what IS relevant is that he was considering an overnight trip alone with someone of the opposite sex. That’s it. That’s the whole issue in a nutshell. It’s great that he backed off but I think he’s definitely put himself in a questionable light. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
phineas Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 This whole thing is fishier than the fisherman's wharf at 6am. Really bizarre, OP. I'd keep my eyes and ears wide open, if you stay with him. at 6 am the fish is fresh. We are talking some sticky been in the sun till 3 pm fish here. Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 at 6 am the fish is fresh. We are talking some sticky been in the sun till 3 pm fish here. Post of the day! Link to post Share on other sites
Author atsumi Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Tell me - why would you plan to marry a man (boy) who is incapable of considering how his actions affect YOUR feelings? You will have a lifetime of this - that makes for a VERY long life of misery! I appreciate your concern for my well-being, but there's no need to be so harsh. Overall, I'm very happy with my relationship, and we haven't had any big issues prior to this one I talked about in my post - which is why I was so bothered and taken aback by this situation. He has always been a very kind, intelligent, and caring man, and we get along fantastic. I have known him for many years, and I also know that no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. I certainly have my own flaws. His flaw is that he can be thoughtless, and can do things without considering the implication of his actions. Can this lead to some bigger issues someday, if he doesn't learn to be more thoughtful? Sure. But if this is his biggest flaw, I am willing to roll the dice because all the good things about him far outweigh this issue in my eyes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 But if this is his biggest flaw, I am willing to roll the dice because all the good things about him far outweigh this issue in my eyes. Just be sure you don't have blinders on. Pretending not to notice the BIG DEAL of going on an overnight trip with a cute young girl when you're engaged to someone else is nothing to sneeze at. Tread carefully, and good luck. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author atsumi Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 I am still puzzled by this whole story! If my boyfriend would pull something like this, I'd be really, really pissed. You seem to be so cool about this... like 'ok, he apologized, all is good again'! How can any man be so clueless? And how would any woman want to be with a man who is this clueless? I mean, I'm not really all cool with this. I was pretty upset with him, and let him know in clear terms where I expect the boundaries to be. He apologized and I believe that he was sincere, but I definitely still think that he ****ed up. I'm choosing to forgive him and move on with life, with the caveat that I won't stand for something like this happening again (and he knows this). I have no idea if he was really that clueless, or if he was just being selfish and playing dumb. I don't think that he was being actively malicious and trying to cheat, because it wouldn't make sense for him to tell me about all this plan to go on a climbing trip with this girl. If he wanted to cheat, he could have just done it quietly while I was away, without telling me about the trip. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author atsumi Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just be sure you don't have blinders on. Pretending not to notice the BIG DEAL of going on an overnight trip with a cute young girl when you're engaged to someone else is nothing to sneeze at. Tread carefully, and good luck. Thanks, and I agree with you. The wedding is a couple years away in any case, and there is plenty of time to make sure everything is right in the relationship. I've learned to be careful with stuff like this, but I also don't want to turn into a paranoid crazy bitch, so it's going to take some effort to find a healthy balance. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Why is the wedding a few years away? Do you have a ring and a solid date for the ceremony? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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