she left - but will it last?

[somanymistakes]

 

um, please re-read this and really think about what you are saying and how bizarre it sounds. You making it sound like a jerry springer show.

 

I'm sorry, I really don't understand the point you're trying to make.

 

This is the OW/OM forum, everyone here is involved in someone else's marriage to some extent, and most of us are hoping that our married partners will leave their spouses. Aren't we all, therefore, concerned about the state of those marriages?

 

I really don't understand how else it would work. I mean, I guess for those people who only want an affair and nothing else, they can just not think about the marriage at all because as long as the BS doesn't find out it doesn't get in their way.

 

But a lot of people get drawn into these affairs in the first place because of the "poor sad MM/MW" confiding their marital woes, don't they? So from the very beginning they would be thinking about the state of the marriage and caring about what happened with it. Wouldn't they?

[wmacbride]

I'm sorry, I really don't understand the point you're trying to make.

 

This is the OW/OM forum, everyone here is involved in someone else's marriage to some extent, and most of us are hoping that our married partners will leave their spouses. Aren't we all, therefore, concerned about the state of those marriages?

 

I really don't understand how else it would work. I mean, I guess for those people who only want an affair and nothing else, they can just not think about the marriage at all because as long as the BS doesn't find out it doesn't get in their way.

 

But a lot of people get drawn into these affairs in the first place because of the "poor sad MM/MW" confiding their marital woes, don't they? So from the very beginning they would be thinking about the state of the marriage and caring about what happened with it. Wouldn't they?

 

If you can't see just how convoluted that is, then there is really something wrong.

 

It's not just that you know about her marriage, it's how much you now about her...and that you actually seem to relish this. You are getting second hand gossip from him about her, and you ar eokay with that, and will even rationalize it?

 

I get you see her as competition, and that you wish she was out of the picture. That's human nature, and it makes sense. It's easy to think that, if not for her, he's be with you full time.

 

Way deep down, in your heart of hearts, do you really, honestly believe that? Are you really okay with him talking about her behind her back?

 

How would you feel if he was talking about anyone else behind their back? ow about if if he was running you and your relationship down behind your back? I expect you would feel really bad. If it's not okay for him to do it to you, then why is it okay for him to do that to her?

 

If you are, then I highly suggest you take a much closer and analytical view of your situation. She is not the problem. He is. Even if she wasn't in the picture, he still wouldn't be with you full time, because you aren't enough. She's not enough. In all likelihood, no woman would be enough.

 

That is no reflection on you, but it sure is a reflection on him. You care so much for him, and he knows that, he knows that as it stands right now, you will put up with a huge amount of crap from him and still rationalize his actions. Would you be willing to put up with type of thing of he wasn't married? if not, then why are you willing to put up with it because he is?

[somanymistakes]

If you can't see just how convoluted that is, then there is really something wrong.

 

It's not just that you know about her marriage, it's how much you now about her...and that you actually seem to relish this. You are getting second hand gossip from him about her, and you ar eokay with that, and will even rationalize it?

 

I get you see her as competition, and that you wish she was out of the picture. That's human nature, and it makes sense. It's easy to think that, if not for her, he's be with you full time.

 

Way deep down, in your heart of hearts, do you really, honestly believe that? Are you really okay with him talking about her behind her back?

 

How would you feel if he was talking about anyone else behind their back? ow about if if he was running you and your relationship down behind your back? I expect you would feel really bad. If it's not okay for him to do it to you, then why is it okay for him to do that to her?

 

I'm trying to figure out what you're saying and I think I get the general direction, but I don't entirely understand it. I don't know if it's generational or cultural or what, but I'm honestly used to my friends telling me a lot of personal details about their lives and relationships. I used to tell him everything too, during those years we were apart.

 

And I know I'm very nosy. I mean, look at the amount of time I spend on this forum reading about and meddling in everyone else's lives. But it seems normal to me? I mean, aren't we all meddlers?

 

However, the bitchy way I talk about her here is not the way he talks about her. He spends much more time beating himself up for his failure to be a good husband and make her happy. If he were slagging her off the way I am, then yes, I would worry about that. If he were openly saying horrible things about her that would suggest that either he's nasty to her or very two-faced. If he were calling her a horrible harridan then it would be, like, why on earth have you not left already? It would suggest that he was either lying or stupid.

 

The things I say are not the things he says. Like, he only said that she showed up with this dog unexpectedly and he wasn't sure how they were going to take care of it. He didn't suggest anything about why she'd done it. I know why she did it, it's pretty obvious to me!

 

If we were together and he was unhappy, I hope he'd tell me first and not only rely on friends for support, but I wouldn't think it was strange for him to also ask friends for advice. I wouldn't want him to just suffer quietly.

 

If you are, then I highly suggest you take a much closer and analytical view of your situation. She is not the problem. He is. Even if she wasn't in the picture, he still wouldn't be with you full time, because you aren't enough. She's not enough. In all likelihood, no woman would be enough.

 

I dated him. He never cheated. As far as I know, he's never cheated on any of his girlfriends since, unless you count being in contact with me at all as cheating all along. (We've been still friends for ages, it just didn't heat up again until recently.) He's not one of those girl-in-every-port types.

 

Would you be willing to put up with type of thing of he wasn't married? if not, then why are you willing to put up with it because he is?

 

Honestly? I'd be willing to put up with much worse treatment for a while because I deserve it considering what I've put him through. He has every right to make me jump through hoops and grovel. If he wanted me to parade around publicly confessing everything I've ever done, I'd think that was fair enough. If I lose out in the end here, that's karma.

 

If there weren't the marriage and other complications I can't talk about, I would probably have a little less patience for him taking time to make up his mind. As it is, it seems reasonable to me, but at some point he has to decide what he wants.

 

That's why i remind myself that this thread will be a year old in December and that I need to take stock.

[JuneL]

I repeatedly offered to go completely out of contact during the MC, he begged me not to.

 

 

You have been accusing the wife of avoiding to work on their marriage, in a tone full of distain. So I was just trying to let you see that your selfish coward of affair partner is the one who has been refusing to work on their marriage, by keeping you around (assuming your story is valid). But more likely than not, that selfish coward is telling his wife that this crazy ex won't stop cringing to him — she has gotten herself into a series of bad relationships in the past and is using him to escape from the reality of having to meet an available man and getting into a relationship in a healthy way.

[Birdies]

Somanymistakes - I understand where you're coming from. I too was heavily invested in my AP's marriage, even though I never expected that we would be together, because I loved him and I worried about how he was being treated. I think it's a normal reaction when you love someone deeply yet are just on the outside looking in at their marriage. You can't actually do anything to help (and obviously our presence doesn't help the marriage anyway), so you just obsess a bit as a way of feeling like you have any control.

 

He always spoke about his wife respectfully, whereas I was trying to get him to understand that he was being emotionally abused and that this isn't what love looked like. They had been together since he was young and he had never really fully realized what it would feel like to be in a mutually supportive and loving relationship until we were involved in the A. He told me that over and over, and still does now that we are together. It wasn't some line of BS he was feeding me to get me into bed. If anything, he was way too easy on her emotional abuse. That is a classic part of the cycle of abuse and the way that when abusers are "being good", the abused tells themselves THIS is the real person and the other stuff was an aberration.

 

Now that we are together, everything he had said (again, in a respectful and offhand and resigned sort of way, not meanly) about her treatment of him and her deep-seated FOO issues had been confirmed voluntarily by his family and mutual friends. They've all basically thanked me for "giving them back their son / brother / friend", as she was hellbent on separating him from family and friends, and talk about how glad they are to see him with someone who clearly adores him and who makes him so happy - while they still obviously don't condone the way things happened.

 

Anyway, sorry I'm just rambling now. I would remember that not everyone here has been in our position and their advice / input may not be relevant. Because yes, it's effing ludicrous and wrong to be involved with a married man and to know the intimacies of their marriage. Clearly. I think we are all the first to admit that. None of us would have set out with that as our goal. But through a series of misguided choices, that's where you are. And after accepting that that's where you are and that you're not immediately going to give up on this guy, take the advice that is relevant and leave the rest.

 

I will say, conflict avoidance in men is a real issue and your guy is not sending the message that he is someone you could trust to make hard decisions and be painfully honest with you in the future. Right now, it's easy for him to be honest with you because you are not the source of the problem. But realistically in life, there will always be conflict or disagreements with our spouses. So I would watch and listen and consider whether he's someone you could rely on when things get tough.

 

It's something I'm very aware of, as my now-partner has a lot of those conflict avoidance tendencies too. I think a lot of MMS do. The one saving grace is that his ex was pathologically unable to take criticism in any way, whereas I'm pretty good about wanting to work on myself and make changes if they are somehow hurtful to my spouse. So he knows I won't react in a way that further discourages honesty. We've had a few small trials in that area and things have gone so far well.

[Chica80]

Somanymistakes - I understand where you're coming from. I too was heavily invested in my AP's marriage, even though I never expected that we would be together, because I loved him and I worried about how he was being treated. I think it's a normal reaction when you love someone deeply yet are just on the outside looking in at their marriage. You can't actually do anything to help (and obviously our presence doesn't help the marriage anyway), so you just obsess a bit as a way of feeling like you have any control.

 

He always spoke about his wife respectfully, whereas I was trying to get him to understand that he was being emotionally abused and that this isn't what love looked like. They had been together since he was young and he had never really fully realized what it would feel like to be in a mutually supportive and loving relationship until we were involved in the A. He told me that over and over, and still does now that we are together. It wasn't some line of BS he was feeding me to get me into bed. If anything, he was way too easy on her emotional abuse. That is a classic part of the cycle of abuse and the way that when abusers are "being good", the abused tells themselves THIS is the real person and the other stuff was an aberration.

 

Now that we are together, everything he had said (again, in a respectful and offhand and resigned sort of way, not meanly) about her treatment of him and her deep-seated FOO issues had been confirmed voluntarily by his family and mutual friends. They've all basically thanked me for "giving them back their son / brother / friend", as she was hellbent on separating him from family and friends, and talk about how glad they are to see him with someone who clearly adores him and who makes him so happy - while they still obviously don't condone the way things happened.

 

Anyway, sorry I'm just rambling now. I would remember that not everyone here has been in our position and their advice / input may not be relevant. Because yes, it's effing ludicrous and wrong to be involved with a married man and to know the intimacies of their marriage. Clearly. I think we are all the first to admit that. None of us would have set out with that as our goal. But through a series of misguided choices, that's where you are. And after accepting that that's where you are and that you're not immediately going to give up on this guy, take the advice that is relevant and leave the rest.

 

I will say, conflict avoidance in men is a real issue and your guy is not sending the message that he is someone you could trust to make hard decisions and be painfully honest with you in the future. Right now, it's easy for him to be honest with you because you are not the source of the problem. But realistically in life, there will always be conflict or disagreements with our spouses. So I would watch and listen and consider whether he's someone you could rely on when things get tough.

 

It's something I'm very aware of, as my now-partner has a lot of those conflict avoidance tendencies too. I think a lot of MMS do. The one saving grace is that his ex was pathologically unable to take criticism in any way, whereas I'm pretty good about wanting to work on myself and make changes if they are somehow hurtful to my spouse. So he knows I won't react in a way that further discourages honesty. We've had a few small trials in that area and things have gone so far well.

 

This the bolded part....took a long time for me to see. It wasn't until after I left untIL after friends and family said ya...those aren't normal relationship or healthy dynamics.....

 

My problem is I just went from one cycle to another. And although AP may have shown me a "healthier" view of what love is supposed to look like. It's still mixed in with pain and confusion... :/

[pheonixrisen]

Well as women, I think EAs hurt more than a PA. We know men can bang without feeling anything but for her, it has to be worse that he's so invested in you and it's not even physical. It's even worse that you 2 had a significant past and history.

 

I think for a lot of wives, they don't want to "lose" to the OW. I know I'll upset some people but it's the truth and nobody wants to admit it. As a wife, they feel superior. They have more power. And a lot of these WHs are too scared or too cowardly to man up and just walk away so he stays. This gives the wife the power again. She won't let him go b/c she knows he won't be alone but she will be. In her eyes, he will go on and be happy with the home wrecker while she's alone and left to pick up the pieces by herself. Again, I know I'll upset people but I stand by it.

 

I think in your MM's case this could be the case too. If any part of what you say is true, she seems capable of that type of manipulation. Not many women are able to be the bigger person and say "your heart isn't entirely here regardless of your physical presence so I'll go ahead and file and set us both free to be happy". I have to say, I don't even know if I'd be able to be that big so I'm not trying to offend anyone lol

 

Lost girl ...generally woman don't like loosing to other woman( that's not specific to ow)

 

You will be surprised how many wives actually do let them go walk them out of the house .

You have no clue to what they tell us

They do not want the divorce

They would never settle down with the ow

They did wrong and want to make it right

And I could go on .

 

So it's not the wives whodont let them go it's them who do not want to go....did you ever comprehend that mm original plan may have never been to end their marriage....or that even if it ever ended you are not the one they actually want to settle with or make a wife ...

 

As far as I know they have 2 legs know where the door is they walked out that door a hundred times

When they were meeting you and making all those promises ...they can use the same 2 leg and walk out for ever

 

They don't because they want to stay too

 

You are attacking the wife how is it her fault really

 

He made the promises to you

He ducked you /and then ****ed you over

He is the one with the stories and excuses to not leave .

 

It's just you and him .if his heart is not in marriage it's simple leave....but may be you are not enough that he would actually leave a marriage for .

 

Some ws do leave but you need to be extra ordinary for that to happen ...when they do it's fast for a woman/man who is more than what they have whom they love and value more than what they have .and some leave and still not end up with ow as they are just means to an end not the end goal.

 

Not trying to offend it's just something to think about .

[pheonixrisen]

Somanymistake.

 

You are judging the wife for the way she treats him based on his heresay ....isnt that calling the kettle black as you actually mistreated him all those years ago by treating him badly / cheating on him etc...

 

So after all these years you decided you are perfect and the same wife who is actually loyal is imperfect because they have strains in their marriage...

 

You say in one post she is avoiding working on the marriage and next post they have been going to mc for a few months ...why the contradiction ...things really don't add up ...are you that blind to see he is the one who still has you in the side as a back up....isnt the number one rule of reconciliation is nc with AP ...so isnt it he the one avoiding working on the marriage with 100%commitment .so why blame the wife .

 

It's a bit scary when someone is so heavily invested in someone else's marriage that they know every detail ..its not a game that you and him are conspiring against what she is and is not doing that's a scary situation to be in .

 

If she is that much avoiding to work on the marriage should walking away be easier then ...shouldntbhe be happy she does not want too and walk away

 

Or

 

He is just lying she is trying ...she wants a break from it all and decided to take leave ...and he is twisting it to how he wants ...so may be he uses this time to involve you further when wife returns he is going to tell you he wants to work it out with her ...this mm is perfectly controlling 2 women and using you and her against each other to get what he wants from both ..

[wmacbride]

Somanymistake.

 

You are judging the wife for the way she treats him based on his heresay ....isnt that calling the kettle black as you actually mistreated him all those years ago by treating him badly / cheating on him etc...

 

So after all these years you decided you are perfect and the same wife who is actually loyal is imperfect because they have strains in their marriage...

 

You say in one post she is avoiding working on the marriage and next post they have been going to mc for a few months ...why the contradiction ...things really don't add up ...are you that blind to see he is the one who still has you in the side as a back up....isnt the number one rule of reconciliation is nc with AP ...so isnt it he the one avoiding working on the marriage with 100%commitment .so why blame the wife .

 

It's a bit scary when someone is so heavily invested in someone else's marriage that they know every detail ..its not a game that you and him are conspiring against what she is and is not doing that's a scary situation to be in .

 

If she is that much avoiding to work on the marriage should walking away be easier then ...shouldntbhe be happy she does not want too and walk away

 

Or

 

He is just lying she is trying ...she wants a break from it all and decided to take leave ...and he is twisting it to how he wants ...so may be he uses this time to involve you further when wife returns he is going to tell you he wants to work it out with her ...this mm is perfectly controlling 2 women and using you and her against each other to get what he wants from both ..

 

I'm sorry, but the mm in this situation claiming to be working on his marriage while he is cheating with another woman is, well, I'm just going to call it what it is.

 

He's being an idiot.

 

That's like a 500 pound man who is trying to lose weight stuffing fist fulls or oreos into his mouth and chugging down bottles of coke while whining that he can't lose weight.

 

In other words, if he is cheating, then why is he surprised his marriage counseling isn't working out. Is he that dense?

 

I know you'll keep making a million excuses for him, which is likley why he stays around. He knows he has pretty much carte blanche because you are still trying to make up for your behavior all those years ago.

[ladydesigner]

I think MM keep their OW around for the same reasons they keep the wife around... because they can.

 

My WH told me after we had separated that he NEVER thought I would be able to leave him. I honestly think this is how they roll. Not all, but most.

[wmacbride]

I think MM keep their OW around for the same reasons they keep the wife around... because they can.

 

My WH told me after we had separated that he NEVER thought I would be able to leave him. I honestly think this is how they roll. Not all, but most.

 

 

Sounds about right to me.

 

Notice how the same guys who cheat and think it's fine will often be the same guys who would have a meltdown if their wife was the one catting around.

 

Hypocritical, but maybe it says something about how those men think.

[Steen719]

My WH told me after we had separated that he NEVER thought I would be able to leave him. I honestly think this is how they roll. Not all, but most.

 

Same exact thing my XH said when I left his cheating hiney!!!!

 

 

Sounds about right to me.

 

Notice how the same guys who cheat and think it's fine will often be the same guys who would have a meltdown if their wife was the one catting around.Hypocritical, but maybe it says something about how those men thinks.

 

As my XH was asking me over and over to stay, he was saying he would have been gone in a heartbeat if I had been the one who cheated.

 

Some nerve, right? Then he proceeded to throw that OW under the bus, telling me she was crazy, pursued him, blah, blah, blah. He didn't know that I saw on computer. He was a prince of a guy, wasn't he? I do not think all MM or MW are the same, but it seems that when a person does not leave their marriage when they are saying they want to, it should be obvious that if they actually wanted to, they would. I don't understand the confusion or the rationalizations that the affair partner believes. If they are going to leave, they do. Some do, some on here have. Their decisions are generally pretty quick.

 

I think we can make ourselves believe anything, even that our wayward spouses aren't cheating on us - even when it would be clear to a 5 year old.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Steen719

[somanymistakes]

My friends were actually more concerned about the possibility of me destroying his marriage and then getting bored with him and dumping him again. And that I have no right to see myself as a better option than his wife considering all the baggage of my past I'd be dragging into his life. Nobody who actually knows either of us thinks that he's manipulating me.

 

I may sound a little flippant about everything at the moment, but that's because I have a hint that something big may be brewing right now. I have hope. Yes, we all know hope is dangerous. We'll just have to see what happens.

[somanymistakes]

A quick summary of what's been going on:

 

While he was on a business trip she came home with her sister in tow, saying her sister needs a place to stay for the next couple of months, so surprise, she's moving in with them! She also canceled the marriage counseling saying it wasn't necessary.

 

He says that he's had enough, that it's obvious that things are never going to get better and he needs to end this, but that it's really hard because she's taking ridiculous steps to avoid him and is now using her sister as a shield to prevent them from having the talk. He wants to be with me but says we can't see each other until he can get her to formally move out so that he's free and clear, and asked me to please give him a little time while he tries to figure out how to make that happen.

 

I know he could still change his mind or just waffle forever, but he says he knows he has to do this.

 

And so, I wait. I don't know for how long. I'd think it would be better to just get it over with but I know that's not easy with the family complications.

[BTDT2012]

He wants to be with me but says we can't see each other until he can get her to formally move out so that he's free and clear,

 

Why does she need to move out? Why can't he move out?

[somanymistakes]

I think it's his house, though I'm not sure. I don't know every detail of the his-and-hers finances. So I'm only guessing at this point but if it were me I would worry that leaving the house would be a sign that I was giving it to my partner.

[anika99]

A quick summary of what's been going on:

 

While he was on a business trip she came home with her sister in tow, saying her sister needs a place to stay for the next couple of months, so surprise, she's moving in with them! She also canceled the marriage counseling saying it wasn't necessary.

 

He says that he's had enough, that it's obvious that things are never going to get better and he needs to end this, but that it's really hard because she's taking ridiculous steps to avoid him and is now using her sister as a shield to prevent them from having the talk. He wants to be with me but says we can't see each other until he can get her to formally move out so that he's free and clear, and asked me to please give him a little time while he tries to figure out how to make that happen.

 

I know he could still change his mind or just waffle forever, but he says he knows he has to do this.

 

And so, I wait. I don't know for how long. I'd think it would be better to just get it over with but I know that's not easy with the family complications.

 

This is just another chapter from the cheater speak handbook. "I can't leave because my wife refuses to let me tell her I'm leaving" It's ridiculous. Right now you're MM is using the sister's visit as an excuse and after the sister leaves he will give you some new absurd reason as to why he can't tell his wife. He's no closer to leaving now than he was when you started this thread 9 months ago.

Edited September 6, 2017 by anika99

[pheonixrisen]

I

A quick summary of what's been going on:

 

While he was on a business trip she came home with her sister in tow, saying her sister needs a place to stay for the next couple of months, so surprise, she's moving in with them! She also canceled the marriage counseling saying it wasn't necessary.

 

He says that he's had enough, that it's obvious that things are never going to get better and he needs to end this, but that it's really hard because she's taking ridiculous steps to avoid him and is now using her sister as a shield to prevent them from having the talk. He wants to be with me but says we can't see each other until he can get her to formally move out so that he's free and clear, and asked me to please give him a little time while he tries to figure out how to make that happen.

 

I know he could still change his mind or just waffle forever, but he says he knows he has to do this.

 

And so, I wait. I don't know for how long. I'd think it would be better to just get it over with but I know that's not easy with the family complications.

 

Please read what you write a couple of times and let it sit in and maybe their will be a breakthrough

 

They are married .

 

No matter what life throws at them .no matter who comes to visit .if he wanted to talk to her about finishing thier marriage he would just talk

 

He can tell her I want to discuss right now

 

She avoids

 

He insist not tomorrow but right now ...and say it .

 

Done

 

It does not take a month to discuss one thing with a person who is your spouse.so tell him to cut the bull****...walk home sit the wife down tell the sister to give them privacy and then tell her what needs to be said

 

If she wants to avoid him she would just go and live with parents or her own ...and he would be free to be with you .

 

Do tell him to cut the bull**** and sit her down and tell her .

 

Because your post comes across like she is pulling the string and he is like a puppet dancing but complaining to you about it .

 

It's simple .

Walk home .sit her down .and tell her .if she avoids insist he wants to talk to her then and not later .

 

Unless he is the one avoiding talking to her.

[pheonixrisen]

This is just another chapter from the cheater speak handbook. "I can't leave because my wife refuses to let me tell her I'm leaving" It's ridiculous. Right now you're MM is using the sister's visit as an excuse and after the sister leaves he will give you some new absurd reason as to why he can't tell his wife. He's no closer to leaving now than he was when you started this thread 9 months ago.

 

Omg has he been telling her he is leaving for 9 months .and he did not get time in these 9 months to tell his wife he is leaving .9 months .

[OWAmy]

OP I can see this situation going on and on and on. Significant time has already passed and I think you need an answer one way or another. I don't believe he will do anything. Unless you force his hand - set him a time limit and be adamant that should he fail by that date then you are gone. And mean it. All this wushu washy dithering around on his part.

 

Is there a Land Registry where you are. Here in the UK, for a small fee you can find out who's name is on the title deeds to a property.

[elaine567]

Haven't read all the thread, so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but has this affair turned physical or it still a emotional affair.

[somanymistakes]

Omg has he been telling her he is leaving for 9 months .and he did not get time in these 9 months to tell his wife he is leaving .9 months .

 

No, he hasn't been telling her he's leaving for nine months. He's been telling her they have problems that they need to talk about and fix, and also that he's talking to me and that we have feelings for each other.

 

I know it's confusing, especially since there's a lot I'm leaving out. I can say that this is the first time he's clearly said to me that he's definitely giving up on the marriage.

 

Yes, this whole thing is very slow, I agree about that. That's part of why I make these posts, because without that record it doesn't feel like it's been as long as it has. We're all such busy people, we barely have time to talk.

 

That's why I'm sort of making jokes about the end of the year, and which way things will have turned out by Christmas.

[BaileyB]

What is most disturbing to me is how you are sitting on the sidelines, waiting almost with glee for his marriage to end so that you can be together. What does it say about you that you are waiting, and hoping, and wishing for the end of a marriage?

 

If he wanted to leave his wife, he would leave her.

[somanymistakes]

Haven't read all the thread, so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but has this affair turned physical or it still a emotional affair.

 

Does talking about sex still count as emotional-only or is it somewhere in between?

 

We have not done anything physical, we are keeping our distance from each other. Both tempted, of course, but hanging in there. And especially now that he's said he's going to leave and that we can finally get together after that, we're not going to give in now.

[somanymistakes]

What is most disturbing to me is how you are sitting on the sidelines, waiting almost with glee for his marriage to end so that you can be together. What does it say about you that you are waiting, and hoping, and wishing for the end of a marriage?

 

That I'm an OW?

 

I think Birdies was right earlier that I obsess so much about things precisely because I have no control over the situation. I don't have any real power here, so I meddle in absolutely everyone's lives to make up for it. It's why I post on LS so much. I can't fix my life so I mess around in everyone else's.

 

I wanted them to fix their marriage at first, because I know I'm a mess and a bad choice and being with me ought to be a last resort. My opinion changed as I learned more about the situation. I'm a mess, but I still think he's better off without her, regardless of what happens with us. He deserves someone who appreciates him and doesn't ignore and avoid him and make him feel like he's a horrible person for wanting intimacy and conversation once in a while.