she left - but will it last?

[anika99]

You broke up with him 10 yrs ago, you both had nine years to declare your feelings of never ending love for each other but instead you both waited till the minute he got married and then decided to have an emotional affair. Ridiculous.

 

It's no accident that this started right after he married, there's some twisted psychology going on in both of your heads. I think for you it really is because he became more attractive once he became unavailable. You are just continuing your pattern of having unhealthy relationships. He just another one in your string of terrible relationships. You need more therapy because you are still self sabatoging your own life and causing your own unhappiness.

 

I can't say what twisted thinking led your MM to this place but it's pretty sad that he brought an innocent person into this. If he wanted to spend his life pathetically pining for an ex that's his choice but he has no right to hurt other people just because he's messed up in his head. How cruel of him to marry and then almost immediately start tormenting his new bride with an ex gf.

 

I doubt that he really came clean to her, if he did then he's using it to his advantage to get her jumping through hoops for him. Poor man, has a wife who is probably going overboard trying to please him and an exgf/mistress also stroking his ego. If he wants to be with you then he can but instead he's choosing to stay married while keeping you on the side. If he plays his cards right his wife will become pregnant and then he'll have a built-in excuse for not leaving and carrying on this affair for years.

 

You didn't suddenly come to your senses the moment he got married and realized he was the one for you. You started this because you are still making poor choices for yourself and the relationships you have. I hope someday you really are able to free yourself of your past behaviour and you really do find a good man.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

If you really loved him as much as you say, you would step back and honour his marriage- because that's what he needs. Real true love is selfless. You're just being selfish.

 

Respect their marriage, respect the choice he made when he married her. You missed he boat here. Move on and find someone you can have.

[Ahurtgirl]

Sounds like you like him now for more because someone else wanted him too. My exH was like that. He constantly broke up with me while we dated and then the minute I would start dating again, he'd pop back into my life. It was as if he needed to feel like he was winning something because as soon as I would go back to him, within months, he would break up with me again. Then the cycle would continue. It was awful. I would never have married him if I could go back in time. Turns out he was gay which maybe explained all the toying of my emotions and being on a string when we dated. My xAP was the first man that made me feel loved and accepted. I never knew what that felt like before.

You need to either make a commitment to him and tell him that you are ready to finally make him number 1 in your life, or you need to walk away for good. Make a decision and stick with it.

[BTDT2012]

An update of sorts. You'll still hate me, and I'll still probably deserve it, but at least it's a different story than the standard workplace affair.

 

We have not gone physical. We have continued to stay away from each other and mostly limit our contact to one long phone call a week. We exchanged christmas cards. His was from him and his wife, and that did make me feel pretty rotten, knowing that she'd signed it thinking I was just a friend. That, combined with the amount we've been flirting, made it clear to me that we really were doing too much behind her back, and I pushed him to come clean to her.

 

Which he did. She's understandably upset.

 

He refuses to give me up as a friend or stop talking to me, though we're trying to back off on the flirting and just talk about movies and television, while they try to figure out whether their marriage is worth saving.

 

I should be okay with this. It was what I wanted, and at least they're both talking about the problem now instead of him just stewing about it on his own. But I feel worse about it than I expected I would. I keep wanting to get reassurances from him about how he feels, even though I know how he feels and we both agreed to cool it. At the same time I keep asking him if I should give him some space for a while so that I'm not in the way, but he doesn't want me to go.

 

I'm not going to pretend I'm doing anything right here, I'm probably making things worse, that's what I'm good at, after all.

 

Does his wife know he is still talking to you? If you actually love him, as you say, you need to remove yourself from the equation. How do you know he actually told his wife anything?

[somanymistakes]

She knows we're still talking, it's not a secret. She's upset but he says he has a right to have friends, and it isn't really cheating because we haven't done anything more than talk. I agree that it's an emotional affair, but he doesn't think that's a real thing.

 

She's not willing to make a 'her or me' ultimatum. I guess neither of us is. I don't feel like I have the right. I know that the thing about me only wanting him because he's not available is possible, we've both talked about that. I don't think it's the truth but it makes me scared to push him because if he left her for me and I let him down that would be horrible.

 

None of us want to be the one that actually forces something to happen. Sometimes I think he's hoping she'll get angry enough to dump him so that he doesn't have to be the one that ends the marriage.

 

I would leave him alone if he wanted me to but he doesn't. She's watching him all the time now to be sure he doesn't sneak off to see me, but we weren't meeting in person anyway. It doesn't change anything for me. It just makes him more stressed.

 

Yes, it's possible that he's lying about what's happening with her, but I don't see why he would.

[RecentChange]

Yes, it's possible that he's lying about what's happening with her, but I don't see why he would.

 

Why? To keep you around, to keep you on the hook. Married men lie, they lie to the wife, they lie to the mistress.

 

Look, I have been cheated on, but more importantly I have been the cheater.

 

Keeping contact with you is a twist of the knife in his wife's chest, every single day. It's such a cold hearted, selfish thing to do. Does this guy have zero empathy?

 

It's your choice to stay in this mess. Do you really see a happy ending here?

 

Gah, his poor wife, she penned a holiday card to you

[FoundMyStrength]

She knows we're still talking, it's not a secret. She's upset but he says he has a right to have friends, and it isn't really cheating because we haven't done anything more than talk. I agree that it's an emotional affair, but he doesn't think that's a real thing.....

I would leave him alone if he wanted me to but he doesn't.

 

Keep in mind that I'm an xOW when I say this, so I get it. I get the feelings that are there. But this is selfish. You're acting as if you have no agency and control. Everything is he said this, he doesn't want to end things, he says it's not an affair, he thinks it's okay to be friends.

 

What do *you* think? How do you feel knowing there is a woman out there sitting in her home watching her husband text you, knowing he's talking to you? If feelings are there, it doesn't matter if you talk about the weather. Or talk about constipation. It will still hurt her and cause her pain. It's a cop out to say it's okay bc he says it's okay. Bc he says he doesn't want to stop.

 

What do you think is the right thing to do here. My guess is your actions are driven by fear of losing him. If you drop out of contact, he might reconcile with his wife. But the truth is, right no he's getting his cake and eating it too. If you go NC, you force him to choose. Yes, it might not be you, but at least this man has to man up and decide.

[somanymistakes]

I don't feel like I have the right to push him, because of everything I've done to him in the past. I'm afraid that I'm a bad choice for him. If they can fix things and be happy together then I have to be happy for them.

 

After everything that's happened I feel like making an ultimatum and disappearing would just demonstrate that I'm not really serious about getting back together, that I'm just jerking him around again. That's why I'm choosing to stay involved, to show that I've changed and that I will be there for him.

[independentwoman]

I don't feel like I have the right to push him, because of everything I've done to him in the past. I'm afraid that I'm a bad choice for him. If they can fix things and be happy together then I have to be happy for them.

 

After everything that's happened I feel like making an ultimatum and disappearing would just demonstrate that I'm not really serious about getting back together, that I'm just jerking him around again. That's why I'm choosing to stay involved, to show that I've changed and that I will be there for him.

 

These two statements are contradictory and you're lying to yourself. There is absolutely 0 possibility of them being able to fix things if you stay in the picture. He can just keep on eating cake and hurting his wife and you are playing a part in that. If you're serious about getting back together with him than you don't want them to be happy or fix things.

[BTDT2012]

I don't feel like I have the right to push him, because of everything I've done to him in the past. I'm afraid that I'm a bad choice for him. If they can fix things and be happy together then I have to be happy for them.

 

After everything that's happened I feel like making an ultimatum and disappearing would just demonstrate that I'm not really serious about getting back together, that I'm just jerking him around again. That's why I'm choosing to stay involved, to show that I've changed and that I will be there for him.

You don't want him to fix his marriage , you want him to be with you.

[Grathblagg]

I don't feel like I have the right to push him, because of everything I've done to him in the past. I'm afraid that I'm a bad choice for him. If they can fix things and be happy together then I have to be happy for them.

 

After everything that's happened I feel like making an ultimatum and disappearing would just demonstrate that I'm not really serious about getting back together, that I'm just jerking him around again. That's why I'm choosing to stay involved, to show that I've changed and that I will be there for him.

 

You really don't think much of yourself, do you? You're going to hang out, hoping that what you're being sold is real, while your star-crossed lover, the object of your affection, is sleeping with his wife every night.

 

While he's dishing out a heaping helping of "Poor me! Poor me!" to you, he's getting down to business with his wife every night, saying how much he loves her, and "She's nothing really. Honest!" about you, if he says anything at all. So, you're nothing really. Right? Or NOT?

 

Have you talked to his wife? "Hey! You're husband is talking about his problems with you to me. I really love him. I wish that he'd leave you". No? Then you don't know shyt. She doesn't have the whole story, and neither do you. Only Da Playa' has the whole story. All you know is is his story of unrequited love for you. You need to start looking out for you, and the longer that you go sniffing around their wedding bed, the more likely you are to end up in it, a good, free, lay for a man who's trying to keep two women well-lubed.

 

Dadgumit, the story is as old as the written language. It's pretty much all the same, only names and places have been changed.

 

You really don't think much of yourself, and that's got to change. There's someone out there who would adore you, but you'll not see him, because you're in the bushes outside of someone else's house all of the time. You're going to miss out, big time. Get it together, girl. You deserve better, but only if you believe that.

[FoundMyStrength]

I don't feel like I have the right to push him, because of everything I've done to him in the past. I'm afraid that I'm a bad choice for him. If they can fix things and be happy together then I have to be happy for them.

 

After everything that's happened I feel like making an ultimatum and disappearing would just demonstrate that I'm not really serious about getting back together, that I'm just jerking him around again. That's why I'm choosing to stay involved, to show that I've changed and that I will be there for him.

 

I agree with this. I felt the same. I never told him to leave his wife, or to be with me. On the few times he spoke about his marital difficulties, I made it clear that I understood I was the intruding factor and that I shouldn't be part of the equation of him and his wife.

 

But you can go NC without animosity and misunderstanding. I told him that I loved him, but simply couldn't do it anymore. That I felt less-than, guilty, and ashamed. I told him that I wished more than anything that we could have met as two single people, and shared a life, but that while he was married, I could not be involved with him any longer. I doubt he will ever be in contact with me again, but if he does come back divorced and unattached, at least I will know that he and his wife took the time to figure out for themselves whether to split up. And that he took the time to figure out how he truly felt about me aside from affair emotions and impulses.

 

What other people are saying about self-esteem is so true. At a certain point, I realized that I was accepting being placed in a less-than position. I've seen a few people on the boards say that one reason xMM don't leave is that they can't possibly respect (and thus view as partner material) a woman who accepts less-than treatment. I'd rather let go of my xMM and have his last memory of me being a woman who is strong enough to walk away and not look back than to have him remember me as the one who desperately clung on for his breadcrumbs and hurried bathroom emails.

Edited January 27, 2017 by FoundMyStrength

[jennifernyc84]

Why do you think he is giving up on his marriage after only one year? You said he had found someone he loves. Why would he give up so soon if he really loved her?

 

I think he has had feelings for you for so long that when you finally started to have feelings back, it made him question his marriage. I don't think you should pressure him at all.

 

It sounds some what similar to what I'm going through with my MM (xMM?)

 

We've never really dated though. I've always loved him. We would kiss and touch each other as teenagers but never dated. He got married and then his "feelings" for me perked up.

 

It's been a living hell since then.

 

My advice. Stay away...for now. I know that's not what I've done but I wish I would've. Do as I say, not as I do, right?

 

Anyway, let him figure out the situation with his wife. Maybe they're not doing as bad as he says or feels they are.

 

I don't think a friendship would be ideal at this point. Not for you or him.

 

Sounds like a mess waiting to happen. Back away. If he loves you, it will happen. But until then, back away.

[somanymistakes]

She doesn't share his interests, they're not sleeping together, they bicker and then ignore each other, and he feels neglected and miserable. But he cares about her, worries about what would happen to her without him (he has a good job and she doesn't), and he's not willing to abandon her after making marriage vows. I don't think he can bring himself to be the one who leaves. It's always been his girlfriends dumping him (like I did )

 

He is not trying to keep me around for sexual purposes. He's always been very insistent that he doesn't want me - or anyone - to be his mistress, and that he could never forgive himself if he betrayed his promises that way. He tells himself that what he's doing with me now isn't cheating. But... after everything we've said and done, if he's choosing to try and stick with his marriage, I don't think we can keep going on like we have been. It's too much of a distraction. I wouldn't call it cake-eating, more like one foot in, one foot out, and that's no good for anyone.

 

I love him. I promised him I would never abandon him again. I am not willing to force NC on him without him agreeing to it. How do I convince him that emotional cheating is real, and that we need to stop?

[aileD]

There's no way to do that without going NC.

 

You need to make a decision. Do you feel good about YOUR part in this?

 

Can you look in the mirror and be ok KNOWING that you are having an emotional AFFAIR with a married man?

 

This isn't about him, it's about you.

[Midwestmissy]

Are you powerless? If nc is right for you, you do it. His priority is himself, not his wife not you. Why do you want his approval on this? Because you know he won't agree to it and it will prove to you that your bond is above all normal rules and moral codes.

 

You both seem to jump through hoops to convince yourselves that what you're doing isn't wrong. You know what's really awesome? Being in a relationship that is loving and so healthy you don't need to do anything but just be. You don't need to question, navel gaze, you just get to love. Totally possible. It's what people who don't spend all day on forums do (I say that tongue in cheek bc I'm here, obvi). They love and and enjoy life. All this hand wringing is just drama so you don't have to put on big girl pants and move forward with life.

 

What will happen if you go nc? He will stay with his wife. What will happen if you keep contact going? He will stay with his wife. Do something good for you.

[somanymistakes]

I couldn't look in the mirror and be okay knowing that I'd walked away from him after promising I wouldn't.

[aileD]

I couldn't look in the mirror and be okay knowing that I'd walked away from him after promising I wouldn't.

 

Let me rephrase my question because I want to be clear about something. My question is about YOU ...not him. You have a tendency to turn things around and push yourself down for him and that's not ok.

 

When you look in the mirror, are you happy with who you see (externally AND internally?)

 

don't think about him. think about you.

 

don't be a martyr for someone else, especially one who's not willing to be one for you.

 

Read up on codependency too.

 

you are crossing oceans for someone who won't walk thru a puddle for you.

 

when do you start taking care of yourself? He's a grown man ...he'll survive. I also bet YOU are putting more worth on your promise to him than he is. You are holding it in your heart and clinging to it and I bet you it isn't even that important to him. People heal. He will be fine.

 

You have to do what's best for you,and if he's there in the end then that's great....but you will never get there if you lie down and let him walk on you. Get there first by yourself for YOU

[anika99]

She doesn't share his interests, they're not sleeping together, they bicker and then ignore each other, and he feels neglected and miserable. But he cares about her, worries about what would happen to her without him (he has a good job and she doesn't), and he's not willing to abandon her after making marriage vows

 

The above is said by every cake eating cheater. Do you really believe that he and his new wife just spend their evening scowling at each other and being miserable together? Stop being so gullible, you are making a fool out of yourself. If their marriage is just non-stop then how exactly is staying with his wife doing her a favor? If you could be a fly on the wall at their house you would see a much different picture of their marriage than the cartoonish picture he is painting for you.

 

You also said you feel like you can't walk away because you don't want him to doubt you and you want him to see that you have changed. I'm sure he is very flattered by your attention and is immensely enjoying having two woman compete for him but I'm also sure a part of him wonders about what is wrong with you that you only wanted him back once he was in a serious relationship with someone else.

 

Reminds me of a guy who dumped me after a couple of years. At the time I was devastated and crushed. Practically begged him to reconsider and stay with me. I hadn't done him any wrong he just thought he could find better. I eventually moved on and started a new relationship with someone else. As things were getting more serious with my new man who should turn up but my ex, declaring his everlasting love and devotion to me. Leaving me was the biggest mistake of his life he said, if only I would dump my new man and give him another chance he would spend the rest of his life proving his love for me. Oh my ego loved it! Here was the man who broke my heart and left me crushed now validating me and telling me I was a worthy person all along. It was healing medicine for my wounded ego. My head knew better though and when i pondered the situation I thought "that guy is messed up in the head. He didn't want me when he could have me but now that I'm unavailable he suddenly wants me more than he wants to breathe. That is screwed up" and thankfully I didn't fall for it.

 

Unless your MM is completely shallow and obtuse I'm sure he has similar thoughts about you. Staying devoted to him now isn't proving to him that you have changed. It's proving that you haven't changed. You are still chasing the elusive fantasy that is just out of your reach. Still choosing dysfunction over normal and healthy. Do you really think your MM doesn't question your motives?

[heartwhole]

Please read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It will give you a lot of clarity about this "I think it's cheating but he says it's not" argument.

 

A major theme in your posts is putting yourself down. And I think that's the root of a lot of this. You and MM have a lot of desire for one another right because nothing is more attractive than what you can't have. But you do not have a lot of love for one another right now. You are both behaving selfishly and recklessly and calling it love for the other person. I know, I know, you love him the best you know how, but you are not behaving in a loving manner, and neither is he.

 

You're doubling down on this idea that you can't abandon him because of LOVE and COMPASSION and GOODNESS. No, no, no. You can't abandon him because of fear and selfishness and a failure to make good choices.

 

Read the book I recommended. You'll come to realize that asking him to be emotionally intimate with you, or him asking it of you, is a threat and show of disrespect for his marriage. And if you loved him, you wouldn't do those things. If you loved yourself, you wouldn't accept those things from him or anyone else.

 

I hope you are in IC to work on the self-esteem issues. It's quite simple -- we just say no when others ask us to disrespect ourselves. It isn't "love" to do otherwise.

[Midwestmissy]

You're breaking yourself so you don't break a promise to him. It makes no sense. Don't put yourself below him, he's no prize to anyone in this mess. You have so much to give, why dump it into a thankless fruitless heartbreaking situation?

 

This is a lot more about how you feel about yourself than how you feel about him. Your using these elevated arguments and him as a shield to not look at your issues. But he's not protecting you from anything. Please get therapy. How many people here have told you "yes! Keep doing what you're doing! You're just not loving him enough! When you actually do everything for him, he won't move the goal posts again! We know it because it happens everyday on LS!"

 

You deserve to get the love you need. You need to be healthy to receive it. He's keeping you from it.

[MJJean]

I love him. I promised him I would never abandon him again. I am not willing to force NC on him without him agreeing to it. How do I convince him that emotional cheating is real, and that we need to stop?

 

If you love him, you want what is best for him. What is best for him is sorting out his marriage, one way or another. Which he will never do unless he is left to his own devices without an OW to act as relief valve. So, the best thing for him is for for you to go NC.

 

I couldn't look in the mirror and be okay knowing that I'd walked away from him after promising I wouldn't.

 

But you can look yourself in the mirror knowing you're helping him betray sacred vows he made when he married?

[SoleMate]

If [[A]]pursuing him is wrong because he's married, but []dropping him is also wrong because you love him, what is a smart person supposed to do in that situation before things get out of control?

 

That is a false parallel. The wrongness of A is absolute. B isn't "wrong" at all; perhaps it would make sense to say it's hard, or doesn't feel good, or it hurts. But B is not either of these:

 

wrong

rôNG/

adjective

1. not correct or true.

"that is the wrong answer"

synonyms: incorrect, mistaken, in error, erroneous, inaccurate, inexact, imprecise, fallacious, wide of the mark, off target, unsound, faulty; "the wrong answer"

2. unjust, dishonest, or immoral.

"they were wrong to take the law into their own hands"

synonyms: illegal, unlawful, illicit, criminal, dishonest, dishonorable, corrupt

 

The one (borderline) ethical thing I believe you could do is call for a 3-way meeting wherein you let all participants know you'd like to discuss plans and goals for your future relationships. However, the chance of success is negligible. One might even say that to disturb marital peace on such a quixotic effort is dishonorable.

 

Do you ever think about the fact that this man chose to marry a woman, and it wasn't you?

[aileD]

Also...you are not abandoning him. If you want to maintain a vow of chastity and wait for him, then go ahead and do so. You would not be abandoning him, you would be just letting him go until he is ready to be with you the right way.

[Birdies]

She doesn't share his interests, they're not sleeping together, they bicker and then ignore each other, and he feels neglected and miserable. But he cares about her, worries about what would happen to her without him (he has a good job and she doesn't), and he's not willing to abandon her after making marriage vows. I don't think he can bring himself to be the one who leaves. It's always been his girlfriends dumping him (like I did )

 

He is not trying to keep me around for sexual purposes. He's always been very insistent that he doesn't want me - or anyone - to be his mistress, and that he could never forgive himself if he betrayed his promises that way. He tells himself that what he's doing with me now isn't cheating. But... after everything we've said and done, if he's choosing to try and stick with his marriage, I don't think we can keep going on like we have been. It's too much of a distraction. I wouldn't call it cake-eating, more like one foot in, one foot out, and that's no good for anyone.

 

I love him. I promised him I would never abandon him again. I am not willing to force NC on him without him agreeing to it. How do I convince him that emotional cheating is real, and that we need to stop?

 

I don't see this happening. Why would he agree to stop getting his side dish of cake (in this case: emotional support, ego boosting, the thrill of something illicit, etc) and go back to only the main dish? He don't think he will agree unless you make it clear that this needs to happen with or without his support, so I think you're in a catch-22 that only you can extricate yourself from.