she left - but will it last?

[Poppy47]

Well, I don't think you'll be happy with this situation indefinitely. We all want someone we can curl up with at night and wake up with in the morning and bring to our friend's bday party and talk about with our coworkers and bring home at Christmas.

 

I hope he mans up soon, or you decide to move on before you lose too much of your life. I don't think these things are always doomed or that he is lying to you - I just don't think these guys usually have it in them to ditch their wives, since they are generally conflict avoidant by nature. I don't think my MM or I (both married) would have if it weren't for DDay.

 

Good luck

But what if we don't need that?

Somebody might be content with another arrangement.

Not everybody wants a 24/7 arrangement.

Poppy.

[somanymistakes]

I generally think the whole MC situation is him trying to get her to give up on him and leave, or to get a third party to say "you should break up" (which I'm pretty sure isn't going to happen, I don't think MC works that way). Anything to cushion the blow and lift some of the responsibility off him for being the one to end things. Because, yeah, conflict-avoidant.

 

There's a lot of possible outcomes I could put up with, but since I am obviously at a distance from how they're trying to work this out, I don't know what's going to come of it. If I knew for sure what would happen it would be a lot easier!

[elaine567]

But what if we don't need that?

Somebody might be content with another arrangement.

Not everybody wants a 24/7 arrangement.

Poppy.

 

Agreed but that is not really what somanymistakes wants, else she would not be so conflicted and worried and posting on LS.

 

She would be happy with the here and now and not be too concerned as to his MC, the state of HIS marriage, his potential divorce and the "we'll be together for real", maybe scenario.

 

She is in limbo and the truth is that whilst her MM is actively trying to fix his marriage, she is on the sidelines making excuses for him as to why he is actually doing that...

[I4givehim]

They are MARRIED!!! Leave them alone. Go No Contact with him. Let them figure out their marital problems. AND if or when he comes to you remember WHEN THE GOING GOT ROUGH HE GOT GOING TO ANOTHER WOMEN!!! So, you make sure to make him happy at alllllll times because if you don't he will be telling another women his problems... Good Luck.

[MJJean]

Even conflict avoidant people will take action if they want something bad enough.

[elaine567]

I get that conflict avoidant people get into affairs as they would rather do that than confront their spouse with what they perceive as the wrongs in the marriage, but I do not think it is the whole story.

 

If he is petrified of causing conflict then why embark on an affair which will induce World War Three if found out or introduce mountains of issues at home if he does manage to hide it.

Most BSs tell of plenty of "conflict" induced when their WS is playing away from home, so I doubt if he was truly conflict avoidant he would embark on an enterprise that was almost guaranteed to stir the pot and cause "conflict".

 

I have a feeling it is just another "excuse" trotted out by the MM and often underlined by his OW to justify him staying at home and retaining the status quo.

[JuneL]

The "smart" thing to do at the beginning is to give him a firm and short deadline (1-3 months at most) to get his divorce started. Before you see the hard evidence of his divorce process, definitely don't engage in any affair with him. How can you stand such a coward? There is a recent thread by a guy who has self described as a conflict avoidant person. Even he divorced his wife for his girlfriend without blinking an eye.

 

I'm in no way condoning affairs. But it boggles my mind how you can let this selfish coward drag your life like that?

[wmacbride]

Have I sat down with her one-on-one and gone over every single thing he's ever said to verify it with her? No, she'd probably rip my face off.

 

Do I have proof beyond just his word? Yes, including things she's said while we're on the phone.

 

I have no doubt that she knows about me in general. Some of the specific things he's confessed to me I don't know if she knows or not, and I'm not going to ask her because that would be cruel.

 

And of course I don't have absolute proof about their sex life because short of putting a camera in the bedroom there's no way I can prove that one. She certainly hasn't managed to get pregnant despite saying that she wanted to, but that doesn't prove they're not having sex, I'm aware that this is something I can't prove.

 

I read this, and I don't mean to give you a hard time, but this post both made me feel confused and at the same time, a little bit sick to my stomach.

 

I am not claiming to know you well or anything like that, but this just doesn't square with the posts you make when you give advice to other people. It's as if your brain knows one thing, but your emotions won't listen.

 

You also mention you don;t want to be cruel to his wife. Come on, you must know that doesn't make any sense. you don't want to hurt his wife yet you are doing the one thing that has a near 100 percent chance of hurting her.

 

Also, doesn't it kind of make you feel uncomfortable knowing so much about a stranger, and using that to strengthen the emotional connection with her husband who you are cheating with? I'm not saying you are doing this on purpose, but it's what is going on.

 

If you actually know her, how can you look at her, talk to her etc. knowing that you have a knife stick squarely in her back?

 

If you seemed like the kind of person who didn't care about things like that, I wouldn't mention it, but as I said above, if your posts and advice to others on here are representative of you, they don't square with you being an an affair. It just doesn't seem to be true to who you really at in your heart. Do you believe her pain is a fair price for all of this because in the end, it won't really be you or him that pays, it will be her. Hoe do you reconcile yourself with that?

 

Just some thoughts. As always, I could be way off, and if I am, feel free to tell me so.

[somanymistakes]

I get that conflict avoidant people get into affairs as they would rather do that than confront their spouse with what they perceive as the wrongs in the marriage, but I do not think it is the whole story.

 

If he is petrified of causing conflict then why embark on an affair which will induce World War Three if found out or introduce mountains of issues at home if he does manage to hide it.

Most BSs tell of plenty of "conflict" induced when their WS is playing away from home, so I doubt if he was truly conflict avoidant he would embark on an enterprise that was almost guaranteed to stir the pot and cause "conflict".

 

Did he really embark on anything? I knew he still had feelings for me, even his wife knew that before she married him, but it was me who came around and pushed things and upset the situation by telling him I wanted him back. I'm the bad guy here.

 

He doesn't believe in emotional affairs anyway. He knows we're not just friends but he won't call this an affair because we're not sleeping together.

 

There was already conflict at home, which talking to me served as an escape from, because he didn't want to to fight with her about it.

 

But yes, he did knowingly increase the conflict by telling her about what was going on with him and me, because eventually it was obvious that she needed to know and it was wrong to hide it from her. He's a good person and wants to do the right thing. And I think that is also why he's having so much trouble walking away from this. He doesn't want to be the man who abandoned his wife, particularly when his wife is playing that she can't syrvive without him. I think he keeps hoping she'll leave.

 

Yes, I know, I'll make any excuse for him, but it's not like I think he's perfect. He's not. I still think he's better than I am though. I'm a mess.

[somanymistakes]

I read this, and I don't mean to give you a hard time, but this post both made me feel confused and at the same time, a little bit sick to my stomach.

 

I am not claiming to know you well or anything like that, but this just doesn't square with the posts you make when you give advice to other people. It's as if your brain knows one thing, but your emotions won't listen.

 

You also mention you don;t want to be cruel to his wife. Come on, you must know that doesn't make any sense. you don't want to hurt his wife yet you are doing the one thing that has a near 100 percent chance of hurting her.

 

Also, doesn't it kind of make you feel uncomfortable knowing so much about a stranger, and using that to strengthen the emotional connection with her husband who you are cheating with? I'm not saying you are doing this on purpose, but it's what is going on.

 

If you actually know her, how can you look at her, talk to her etc. knowing that you have a knife stick squarely in her back?

 

If you seemed like the kind of person who didn't care about things like that, I wouldn't mention it, but as I said above, if your posts and advice to others on here are representative of you, they don't square with you being an an affair. It just doesn't seem to be true to who you really at in your heart. Do you believe her pain is a fair price for all of this because in the end, it won't really be you or him that pays, it will be her. Hoe do you reconcile yourself with that?

 

Just some thoughts. As always, I could be way off, and if I am, feel free to tell me so.

 

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

I do feel awkward knowing too much about her, considering. We are not friends, I knew that would be a terrible idea. And I don't know anything about what's actually being said in MC, because that would be hugely inappropriate. I do have a lot of friends who share extremely personal details of their lives and relationships with me so I have strange boundaries in general, but this is different because we are rivals. I want to know everything but I know that I shouldn't.

 

As far as his wife goes, I've developed more of a dislike for her as time goes by. Maybe it's natural, maybe it's part of the compartmentalizing we do as OW, losing sympathy for the BS in order to justify our own feelings? I try to remind myself that my feelings towards her are unfair, I'm seeing her through a very negative lens because of circumstances, and she does have good qualities too. But in my gut I want her to go away. Not just so that I can "win" but because I'm angry at her for mistreating him and not being good enough for him. I know that's not fair either, I've hurt him too. But it is how I feel.

 

I've seen a couple of other heartbroken OWs posting that sort of thing, that they hope their MMs will leave their wives, regardless of whether they ever get together or not, just to get free of the bad home situation that the OWs sympathised with that drew them into the affair in the first place. So I know this particular set of feelings isn't unique.

 

I don't want to hurt her any more than necessary but I want her gone. To that end, I am willing for her to have that pain. I know that sounds pretty awful stated bluntly. But if they're not happy, if they can't manage to work things out, aren't they better off apart? In the end it's up to them, to divorce or not. I can't force them either way.

[BTDT2012]

But what if we don't need that?

Somebody might be content with another arrangement.

Not everybody wants a 24/7 arrangement.

Poppy.

You find an unattached person who wants the same type of arrangement.

[aileD]

I'm a Bs and your situation is similar to what happened in mine. My husband had many of the same feelings for his AP that yours has for you. It was very emotional, we had a bad marriage, he felt guilty for leaving, he did MC and other things to try to push me away so that *I* would be the one to leave and he wouldn't have to. I knew about her for a year and a half while he went back and forth. He didn't spare me any detail of how he felt about our marriage or her. He said all the same things to AP as yours is saying to you. All of them.

 

I'm here to tell you this: We are still together, we are still married and she is out of his life. We are finally making progress in MC and divorce isn't an option for either of us. We healing old hurts and creating a new marriage. It is NOT easy and there have been slip ups and honest talks about divorce. There have been a few times where it WAS me who said "done, I'm done. I'll give you a divorce". And it was him who cried to me that he didn't want that.

 

 

I'm not saying it can never work but you have to look at the facts. The two most important ones are

-the time that this has been going on. When MM do leave, it doesn't take this long

-the fact that he's literally already said to you that he will not leave her.

 

 

Hon, you're not a bad Person. But you need to be realIstic. If you are okay with being a mistress then OWN IT. I know you're not because you're so conflicted here. You want a real relationship.

 

I want to let you know that 3 months after "ending affair day", my husband's AP had a steady boyfriend who she is still going strong with today. She was ready to kill her self over my husband and now she's happy with someone else who brings her out in public and wakes up next to her. Thst could be you.

 

You have to give him a time frame. If you don't want to give him an ultimatum that's ok.....but have one in your mind. Have a date set thst is reasonable and if he does not start the divorce by then, it's your queue to either accept and embrace your mistress status or move on and find happiness for you....because it won't likely ever change

[stillafool]

But what if we don't need that?

Somebody might be content with another arrangement.

Not everybody wants a 24/7 arrangement.

Poppy.

 

That's what FWBs are for. There are thousands if not more who want that type of relationship. There's no good reason to get involved with a married person and play a part in the destruction of a marriage.

[aileD]

But what if we don't need that?

Somebody might be content with another arrangement.

Not everybody wants a 24/7 arrangement.

Poppy.

 

And that's fair. Just clear it with all three parties involved first. Arrangements can be made and are made like that all the time

[wmacbride]

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

I do feel awkward knowing too much about her, considering. We are not friends, I knew that would be a terrible idea. And I don't know anything about what's actually being said in MC, because that would be hugely inappropriate. I do have a lot of friends who share extremely personal details of their lives and relationships with me so I have strange boundaries in general, but this is different because we are rivals. I want to know everything but I know that I shouldn't.

 

As far as his wife goes, I've developed more of a dislike for her as time goes by. Maybe it's natural, maybe it's part of the compartmentalizing we do as OW, losing sympathy for the BS in order to justify our own feelings? I try to remind myself that my feelings towards her are unfair, I'm seeing her through a very negative lens because of circumstances, and she does have good qualities too. But in my gut I want her to go away. Not just so that I can "win" but because I'm angry at her for mistreating him and not being good enough for him. I know that's not fair either, I've hurt him too. But it is how I feel.

 

I've seen a couple of other heartbroken OWs posting that sort of thing, that they hope their MMs will leave their wives, regardless of whether they ever get together or not, just to get free of the bad home situation that the OWs sympathised with that drew them into the affair in the first place. So I know this particular set of feelings isn't unique.

 

I don't want to hurt her any more than necessary but I want her gone. To that end, I am willing for her to have that pain. I know that sounds pretty awful stated bluntly. But if they're not happy, if they can't manage to work things out, aren't they better off apart? In the end it's up to them, to divorce or not. I can't force them either way.

 

Thank you for your reply. It sounds like you were being very honest in your words.

 

I admit I just can't square away your anger with her for hurting him, when he's doing the same thing to her...and to you as well. Where's your anger with him?

 

It sounds like you really love him, and as we all know, love sometimes can be confusing.

Edited July 27, 2017 by wmacbride

[Poppy47]

And that's fair. Just clear it with all three parties involved first. Arrangements can be made and are made like that all the time

 

Precisely.

Poppy.

[Doublegold]

As far as his wife goes, I've developed more of a dislike for her as time goes by

 

I so relate OP, same here; she makes it so easy.

[minimariah]

As far as his wife goes, I've developed more of a dislike for her as time goes by.

 

well... it does make a lot of sense, when you think about it.

 

you don't know this woman and everything you DO know about her is negative. every story that relates to her is negative - so all you ever hear is him complaining about her, that is the only context you know. you are the OW & obviously... you do see her as an intruder, an obstacle to your own happiness. that feeling is irrational and almost always present so there is that, too. and finally - MMs love to complain about being mistreated by their wives but they tend to leave out the part where THEY mistreat the wife. which is why you perceive him as the victim, not her or even both of them.

 

i think i've told you this before, but i see a whole lot of red flags and wildly unhealthy patterns in your relationship. good luck!

[Steen719]

well... it does make a lot of sense, when you think about it.

 

you don't know this woman and everything you DO know about her is negative. every story that relates to her is negative - so all you ever hear is him complaining about her, that is the only context you know. you are the OW & obviously... you do see her as an intruder, an obstacle to your own happiness. that feeling is irrational and almost always present so there is that, too. and finally - MMs love to complain about being mistreated by their wives but they tend to leave out the part where THEY mistreat the wife. which is why you perceive him as the victim, not her or even both of them.

 

i think i've told you this before, but i see a whole lot of red flags and wildly unhealthy patterns in your relationship. good luck!

 

If my XH's OW had only my XH's word for what kind of person I was. I was mean, refused to take care of him when he was sick, yelled at him in front of the doctors and nurses, contributed little financially and on and on. In truth, I took care of him for quite some time, before and after his transplant, never yelled at one single time in front of his doctors or nurses, worked teaching online classes while he contributed nothing and well....you get the idea. I saw all of his comments to her about me on facebook. I let her know what a big fat liar he was. What was he going to tell her? I was good to him, I was helping more than my share, but he was a liar and wanted his cake and to eat it too?

 

Please......if you want to believe him and want to stay in this unhealthy relationship, at least take off those rose colored glasses. My XH's OW believed him too. Oh poor XH - she felt so sorry for him. UGH. See what your relationship for what it is instead of blaming her for making him "unhappy". You are participating in her unhappiness and you must know - really, you must know that if he wanted to her leave her, he would be gone. Don't say it is not that simple. If he wanted to do it, he would.

[pheonixrisen]

Is there anything you can do at the beginning of what might become an affair, any honorable compromise to deal with the situation of believing that you are truly in love with a married man? If pursuing him is wrong because he's married, but dropping him is also wrong because you love him, what is a smart person supposed to do in that situation before things get out of control?

 

i'm interested in that question in general but if you want to hear my story...

 

He's not some man I met at work who was hiding his ring, he's my ex, the only one I ever really loved, who I dated for four years back in college and broke up with ten years ago due to my own unresolved issues. We've been "friends" ever since, but I know he never got over me and it's been awkward for him watching me go through a string of terrible relationships while he tried to be supportive. We always kept in touch and always still cared about each other. Finally after some therapy and a lot of soul-searching, I got my head on straight and wanted a good man in my life. Of course, in the meantime, he married someone else.

 

If they were happy I would leave it at that and try to be happy for him, but they've only been married a year and they are already wondering if they've made a mistake. He's confided in me about their problems just like I always confided in him, except this time we both admit we are still in love with each other and want to get back together, if only he weren't married. He's never cheated on anyone in his life, that's more something I would have done. That's the problem. We're both worried that I'm only feeling this way about him because he's not available, and that if he does leave his wife for me, I'll lose interest and dump him again, and then everyone loses.

 

If I sound like a pretty terrible person, that's why I chose this username. I have made a lot of mistakes.

 

We have not so far had a physical affair, but the things we've said to each other would destroy his wife if she knew. I know I have to try and let go and be just friends if he does choose her, but I still have hope. They haven't been married long, I've known him a lot longer than she has, and they don't have children. He might still choose me.

 

I don't know what else I can do at this point other than wait and avoid being alone with him in person. I don't want to be a homewrecker but I don't want to give him up either. If he leaves her for me but we don't sleep together until they're separated, is it still wrong?

 

You might want to take a second look at few things you mentioned.

 

A smart person would analyse the pros vs cons and would realize they are reasoning through emotions and should walk/run in the other direction as you mentioned you made tons of mistake this would just add to the list

 

You mentioned you got help and got your self together you might want to rethink this again ...as if you got your self together you would not be heading in this direction as it's far from a smart move .people make mistakes and people learn ..you have not yet learnt !so it will be an endless cycle .

 

Mm having affairs normally say a lot of things to ow that would break his wife heart they need to lay the foundation stories are rewritten wife becomes the monster ...rarely will a mm tell you I have great relationship my wife is awesome now let's **** ...but when push comes to shove they also throw the same ow who they swore thier undying Romeo and juliet love too under .

 

When I found out about my dh affair 5 years ago we did not have a child .he was in a 2 year affair with promises made to leave me and marry her .i found out 2 years too late and showed him the door he refused to leave .so even though they don't have a child does not mean he will leave .

 

Now to answers your question.

 

If you as you say have got your self together and have your head right

If he as he proclaims love for you that would destroy his wife

 

Then the smartest thing here to do is step back give him a time period a week / a month / 2 months tell him you will wait for him to make the decision and move to leave his wife immediately .and let him make that decision alone.

 

Let him prove to you in action his out of the world love for you .everything else is just bull****.

[pheonixrisen]

He married someone else because he thought he could never get me back. I was always his first choice. He said even if I'd shown up on the wedding day and said "Don't marry her, marry me" he would have gone with me.

 

If being apart for ten years and seeing other people hasnt made us stop wanting each other I dont see how anything else will either.

 

If you read stories upon stories here ...you would know

 

MM say a lot of things (in words)

 

Their Actions are quite different .

 

Wake up and smell the coffee he also made vows to forsake all others (words)His actions are quite different .

[pheonixrisen]

An update of sorts. You'll still hate me, and I'll still probably deserve it, but at least it's a different story than the standard workplace affair.

 

We have not gone physical. We have continued to stay away from each other and mostly limit our contact to one long phone call a week. We exchanged christmas cards. His was from him and his wife, and that did make me feel pretty rotten, knowing that she'd signed it thinking I was just a friend. That, combined with the amount we've been flirting, made it clear to me that we really were doing too much behind her back, and I pushed him to come clean to her.

 

Which he did. She's understandably upset.

 

He refuses to give me up as a friend or stop talking to me, though we're trying to back off on the flirting and just talk about movies and television, while they try to figure out whether their marriage is worth saving.

 

I should be okay with this. It was what I wanted, and at least they're both talking about the problem now instead of him just stewing about it on his own. But I feel worse about it than I expected I would. I keep wanting to get reassurances from him about how he feels, even though I know how he feels and we both agreed to cool it. At the same time I keep asking him if I should give him some space for a while so that I'm not in the way, but he doesn't want me to go.

 

I'm not going to pretend I'm doing anything right here, I'm probably making things worse, that's what I'm good at, after all.

 

He told her but has not left her ...isnt Dday a perfect oppourtunity to walk away .

 

Read your above post he is playing with both of you .perhaps he like the emotional.power he controls.

 

He tell his wife but does not leave her stay to work things out

He tells you to not go ...but is still with his wife

 

2 women who think the world of one guy ...

You dislike her coz she has what you want

She dislikes you coz she looks at you as a home wrecker

 

All the while he is the one doing wrong ...just great

 

Also I would like to address another point that you keep saying .they would actually need to have sex to get pregnant

 

For 5 years of my marriage me and dh had sex all the time but I never got pregnant (for no reason) we were not actively trying nor preventing .

 

So just because she is not pregnant does not mean they are not having sex .

Edited July 28, 2017 by pheonixrisen

[somanymistakes]

I guess the closest I can get to being mad at him about all this is that he should never have married her. If he's telling the truth that he would have left her at the altar if I had bothered to show up that day to take him back, he shouldn't have married her, that wasn't fair to her.

 

It's possible that he's rewriting history in his head now that the marriage isn't going so well, and that he was more enthusiastic at the time. I don't know, I didn't go.

[pheonixrisen]

I guess the closest I can get to being mad at him about all this is that he should never have married her. If he's telling the truth that he would have left her at the altar if I had bothered to show up that day to take him back, he shouldn't have married her, that wasn't fair to her.

 

It's possible that he's rewriting history in his head now that the marriage isn't going so well, and that he was more enthusiastic at the time. I don't know, I didn't go.

 

You are still on a delusional train going 100 mile per hour .

Saying one thing and actually being in the situation and what your action may be are 2 very different things .

 

So your mm is basically saying :on the day when 2 people are the most happiest celebratibg their love if you would have showed up he would have walked away

 

But fastforward when he is actually unhappy and you are offering him everything ...he is still there working things out with his wife .

 

He is dragging you along ...when mm really love thier ow the separation from wife is quick /fast with minimal damage if she threatens suicides calls her family and let's them know and then walks off .

 

This mm is just waiting ...sooner or later you are going to give in and give up what he requires of you ...in desperation to keep him ...he is playing the damsel in distress ..while working things out with his wife .see the situation for what it is .stop making excuses for him he is exactly where he wants to be.

[somanymistakes]

So your mm is basically saying :on the day when 2 people are the most happiest celebratibg their love if you would have showed up he would have walked away

 

But fastforward when he is actually unhappy and you are offering him everything ...he is still there working things out with his wife .

 

Because on his wedding day he hadn't yet made a vow to her, and now he has, and owes it to her to try. Even I told him he ought to try. He shouldn't leave her just for me, he should leave her because their marriage is broken beyond repair.

 

There's a lot more to the story than I can share on a public forum, obviously, so all I can say is that his actions are consistent with the story as I know it, the evidence I've seen, and the things I have asked him to do. There has never been a case where I've found out any shocking surprise and he's had to backtrack or change his story.

 

when mm really love thier ow the separation from wife is quick /fast with minimal damage

 

counterexample: Prince Charles.

 

if she threatens suicides calls her family and let's them know and then walks off .

 

Even people who desperately want divorces often don't do that, I read enough divorce forums to know that.

 

Maybe it would be easy to just walk away if he didn't care about her at all, but that's not how things are.

 

This mm is just waiting ...sooner or later you are going to give in and give up what he requires of you.

 

What he requires? He's not trying to get me to sleep with him. He has never asked me to do that. He has said that he doesn't want us to do that, not while he's married.

 

Which is a good thing because I don't think either one of us would hold out for long if the other pushed. I worry sometimes that I will get too frustrated and just try to seduce him. I doubt he'd be able to say no. But it would be wrong, and we have enough self-control to know that.

 

I am not going to demand that he have sex with me. I am not going to demand that he leave his wife immediately and come be with me. I am not going to demand anything. I wanted them to resolve their own situation with as little interference from me as possible. But I'm too weak to go into complete NC while they do it, I miss him too much.