central Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Thanks for the feedback. I completely agree that it's an open-minded and generous offer. It's also a difficult proposition for me to just take lightly. Too much at stake. That is why I'm not in a good space to just have fun with it yet. Maybe. Someday. Maybe not. We have a fantastic sex life, and my wife suggested I play with others if I wanted. I knew she meant it, too, so I did. And, I knew she would also enjoy the same freedom, so she did. An open relationship has worked for us, but we are very, very careful to avoid hurting each other over this. Lately, she hasn't been interested in other men, but is still fine with me seeing other women. It doesn't happen often these days, but I still enjoy the freedom occasionally. Mostly, we enjoy our own great sex life. If it weren't so great, though, I'd definitely be pursuing my granted freedom very avidly. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
MJJean Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 My God! If this were happening in my home I would sharpen the knife and hand it to my wife. The reality is birth control is NOT 100%, so pregnancy is a possibility if you do go outside your marriage. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author StillRambunctious Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 The reality is birth control is NOT 100%, so pregnancy is a possibility if you do go outside your marriage. Agreed, but in my situation, without providing too much detail, pregnancy is not an issue. My issue is with the example provided. There was so much pressure on that relationship, that opening it up would be ill advised in the first place. Using a straw man argument to make a point never works for me. There is a possibility of something going not as planned in every aspect of life. That is the essence of life. It's full of grey areas, but also full of color. It's all about how you choose to view it and engage with it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Even if you and your wife talk through ll of this and decide that going outside your marriage isn't the right path, there can still be a great benefit to it. The conversations can bring you closer together, and help you and your wife learn more about each other as people. When you think about it, it's really awesome and exciting that, no matter how long you know someone, there is still more to learn about them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MJJean Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Agreed, but in my situation, without providing too much detail, pregnancy is not an issue. My issue is with the example provided. There was so much pressure on that relationship, that opening it up would be ill advised in the first place. Using a straw man argument to make a point never works for me. There is a possibility of something going not as planned in every aspect of life. That is the essence of life. It's full of grey areas, but also full of color. It's all about how you choose to view it and engage with it. I have a Pill baby and a condom baby. My close friend got pregnant after a tubal. Another 2 have had vasectomies and produced children proven by DNA testing with a few more who just took their wives word for paternity. An unintended pregnancy could destroy your marriage and put a fairly decent dent in your finances and plans for the future. Of course, there is also the risk of emotional attachment brought on by PEA chemicals. Which, should that occur, could also destroy your marriage. And that's not even counting your wife's reaction if you were to take the hall pass. Bottom line, the biological purpose of sex is procreation and pair bonding to see to the survival of the offspring. The reality is that birth control has a failure rate and people "catch feelings" due to the PEA chemical soup produced by physical intimacy. If you're going to play with fire, at least understand and account for the most common ways of getting burned. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author StillRambunctious Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 The reality is birth control is NOT 100%, so pregnancy is a possibility if you do go outside your marriage. I have a Pill baby and a condom baby. My close friend got pregnant after a tubal. Another 2 have had vasectomies and produced children proven by DNA testing with a few more who just took their wives word for paternity. An unintended pregnancy could destroy your marriage and put a fairly decent dent in your finances and plans for the future. Of course, there is also the risk of emotional attachment brought on by PEA chemicals. Which, should that occur, could also destroy your marriage. And that's not even counting your wife's reaction if you were to take the hall pass. Bottom line, the biological purpose of sex is procreation and pair bonding to see to the survival of the offspring. The reality is that birth control has a failure rate and people "catch feelings" due to the PEA chemical soup produced by physical intimacy. If you're going to play with fire, at least understand and account for the most common ways of getting burned. I apologize for upsetting you. Point taken. I will tell you that my situation doesn't fit in any of the categories you mentioned, but I fully understand the emotional consequences. That is why taking her up on her offer is a difficult decision for me, not to mention just the logistical issues that go along with it. We obviously need to talk this through further. The trick is finding time for both of us to be available for each other to do so. I will do my best. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
standtall Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I have a Pill baby and a condom baby. My close friend got pregnant after a tubal. Another 2 have had vasectomies and produced children proven by DNA testing with a few more who just took their wives word for paternity. Sure you do...I bet you also know an immaculate conception as well. Unless you work in some clinic...I'm calling this out.Your just egging someone on. Link to post Share on other sites
Author StillRambunctious Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Sure you do...I bet you also know an immaculate conception as well. Unless you work in some clinic...I'm calling this out.Your just egging someone on. It does seem strange. Come to think of it, I'd stay away from that clinic. Link to post Share on other sites
MJJean Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Sure you do...I bet you also know an immaculate conception as well. Unless you work in some clinic...I'm calling this out.Your just egging someone on. Seriously. I'm middle aged and have a lot of friends, most of which I've known since High School. Most of us married and had kids young, divorced, remarried, and the social circle grew. If you're on the planet long enough and know some people, you see some head scratching shyte. My eldest baby is a Pill baby. Best guess is a course of antibiotics I was on for a lung infection interfered with the effectiveness of the Pill because I never missed my dose. My condom baby is a total mystery as we never had any obvious signs of mishap until I realized I was pregnant again. My exH had a vasectomy when I was pregnant with the condom baby. I scheduled it, drove him, and cleaned/checked the post surgical wound. We divorced. He remarried. His 2nd wife had two children. I'd have said she was cheating, but there was some social services involvement, paternity was questioned, and DNA testing says they're both his. My best friends 1st husband knocked up some random chick while they were married and she was pregnant with their 2nd child. Random chick aborted, friend paid for it, and a condition of her paying for the abortion and reconciling with her husband was he get a vasectomy. He did. A year later, she got pregnant with their 3rd child. In the subsequent divorce he tried to deny paternity, the court ordered testing, and the kid was his. The other guys who allegedly had vasectomy babies were 1 cousin and 2 sort-of friends, but testing was never done and I can't say if those kids were theirs or not. My 2nd closest girl friend had 5 kids before she was 30. She got her tubes tied. She ended up pregnant again...twice...within 5 years of having the procedure done. She had the clamps and the one on her right ovary slipped. This lady is why I had the cut and cauterize method done when I had my tubal. Link to post Share on other sites
MJJean Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I apologize for upsetting you. Point taken. I will tell you that my situation doesn't fit in any of the categories you mentioned, but I fully understand the emotional consequences. That is why taking her up on her offer is a difficult decision for me, not to mention just the logistical issues that go along with it. We obviously need to talk this through further. The trick is finding time for both of us to be available for each other to do so. I will do my best. No upset at all! I'm just pointing out that unless you are infertile or only having sex with women who are infertile, it's a possibility you must consider before making a decision. As far as emotional consequences, you must think of yourself, your wife, and the OW. The biggest dangers to you and OW are emotional involvement and the buckets of drama that come from that. For your wife, some people really don't mind, some think they won't mind and only realize they do mind after the damage is done. She may be sincere, but not realize how she will respond to the reality. If you do decide to use the hall pass, go on a few dates and only kiss. See how your wife responds. If she responds unfavorably, at least you didn't have sex. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 No upset at all! I'm just pointing out that unless you are infertile or only having sex with women who are infertile, it's a possibility you must consider before making a decision. As far as emotional consequences, you must think of yourself, your wife, and the OW. The biggest dangers to you and OW are emotional involvement and the buckets of drama that come from that. For your wife, some people really don't mind, some think they won't mind and only realize they do mind after the damage is done. She may be sincere, but not realize how she will respond to the reality. If you do decide to use the hall pass, go on a few dates and only kiss. See how your wife responds. If she responds unfavorably, at least you didn't have sex. I would also suggest to the op that he make very clear to any woman he decides to "explore" with the parameters of the agreement he has made with his wife. That way, the woman will know what she can expect and how far the relationship, if any, will go. he doesn't strike me as someone who would lead a woman on, but misunderstandings can happen. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 She may be sincere, but not realize how she will respond to the reality. Including the possibility she might internalize the resentment until it blows like Mt. Mayon. OP, I'd ask myself at what price was I willing to pursue this? Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author StillRambunctious Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Including the possibility she might internalize the resentment until it blows like Mt. Mayon. OP, I'd ask myself at what price was I willing to pursue this? Mr. Lucky I agree with all of this. I've been racking my brain for nearly a year and it just doesn't add up. It seems too damn risky and nearly impossible to make work. I sincerely don't know how anyone does it. I feel trapped between two unpleasant scenarios. Live sexually frustrated, but with a happy family or divorce and make everyone unhappy. I guess castration could be another option. <sarcasm> 1 Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Sure you do...I bet you also know an immaculate conception as well. Unless you work in some clinic...I'm calling this out.Your just egging someone on. Fact, the only 100% effective birth control is to not have sex. Fact, every other form of BC is not 100% effective. It has been reported in the media, whether real news or fake news networks, mainstream newspapers and magazines that people have gotten pregnant even though condoms, pills, and vasectomy's not working. Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 When a husband/MM has a hall pass there will always be the chance that he gets his OW knocked up. All it takes is for the OW to want to keep the baby, file for child support first, the courts will give her a lion's share of this MM's income. The courts do not take into consideration of preexisting children. So who ever files first comes out ahead. In this case the wife will see her husbands income cut in half. Hall pass, what a joke. When are people going to realize that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Link to post Share on other sites
Author StillRambunctious Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 Fact, the only 100% effective birth control is to not have sex. Fact, every other form of BC is not 100% effective. Thanks Dr. Obvious. Fact, you know nothing about me and my own fertility issues. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author StillRambunctious Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 Hall pass, what a joke. When are people going to realize that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Well apparently it works perfectly well for some couples and I applaud any couple who works together to keep each other happy and their marriage alive. Not everything works for everyone, but I wouldn’t want to live in a world where everyone has to march to the same drum. I personally believe staying in a marriage with little or no sex or passion is a joke. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Just a Guy Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Hi Rambunctious, after reading through the latest posts I must say that I stick with my previous suggestions, namely, have your wife cooperate with you in sexual acts barring PIV sex, which she is probably not up for. Alternatively, explore the world of Hotwives as these are the only ladies who would be willing to have NSA sex while you do not run the danger of getting emotionally caught up in a love triangle with them. Hotwives are into having sex with other men WITH the consent and encouragement of their husbands. That puts them in a 'safe' category at least as far as the emotional aspect is concerned. For them the payoff would be that you are married and have your wife's permission for this which is important to them because they would rather not be dealing with the drama of cheating husbands. On a forum like this one which is populated by folks who have been cheated on by their spouses, it is understandable that there would be an inbuilt antipathy towards anything to do with extramarital sex. At the same time you have folks like Central and others who have successfully had the best of both worlds. Admittedly, people like them are few and far between. It is rare that a man and a woman, who hold radical views, will fall in love with each other, carve out a happily married life and at the same time be able to lovingly explore their sexuality with others without jeopardizing the primary relationship. Very few can carry it off successfully. Most men and women are just not cut from the same cloth. There is the saying ' Exceptions prove the rule'! The thing is that if you and your wife are not cast in the same mould as Central and his wife, then it is better you not step into their world. I would suggest that you have a series of heart to heart talks with your wife to ascertain the extent of her boundaries both ethical and emotional while at the same time examining your own. After carefully evaluating everything you should then take whatever step you think is wise after weighing the repercussions of it. As somebody said, act in haste and repent at leisure. You have a generally good thing going with your wife. Treasure it and be careful how you decide to rock the boat. Warm wishes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I personally believe staying in a marriage with little or no sex or passion is a joke. But even with a "hall pass", isn't that what you'd be doing? I have a hard time believing NSA sex with a stranger would satisfy your marital need for "sex or passion", just doesn't work that way. Next time you're hungry, have someone else eat a meal for you. That's about as satisfying as what you're proposing... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author StillRambunctious Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 But even with a "hall pass", isn't that what you'd be doing? I have a hard time believing NSA sex with a stranger would satisfy your marital need for "sex or passion", just doesn't work that way. Next time you're hungry, have someone else eat a meal for you. That's about as satisfying as what you're proposing... Mr. Lucky No. At this point the hall pass is off the table for me. I’m simply trying to keep an open mind and not judge those who want to go that route. Let me be clear: I’m not comfortable with taking her up on her hall pass. So my next option is what? At this point, I’m contimplating ending a passionless marriage because I’m tired of being taken for granted. Don’t we deserve to be with someone who feels as strongly for us as we do for them? I’m trying to be sensitive to her physiological issues, and she’s trying to be sensitive to my needs, but at the end of the day who are we kidding? My kids are my focus now and I’d do anything for them, so they are keeping me grounded. Am I being selfish for wanting my wife to be more than just a friend or really close business partner? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
standtall Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Fact, the only 100% effective birth control is to not have sex. Fact, every other form of BC is not 100% effective. It has been reported in the media, whether real news or fake news networks, mainstream newspapers and magazines that people have gotten pregnant even though condoms, pills, and vasectomy's not working. That's not my point. Figure it out. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Am I being selfish for wanting my wife to be more than just a friend or really close business partner? No. I haven't been through menopause so I don't know what that feels like for a woman, but I have a hard time understanding women who think they can keep their marriage while refusing sex with their husband. I don't think that you are wrong to expect a little more compromise from your wife. I hope things change for you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OneParadox Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Thanks Dr. Obvious. Fact, you know nothing about me and my own fertility issues. There is no point of arguing the whole BC/pregnancy/VD with these posters. It soon becomes clear they are using pregnancy and disease as a cover for an ethical and moral argument they strongly believe in. Instead of coming out and saying "I believe sex outside of marriage is morally wrong" (and quote God, the scriptures, their pastors, Fox news, or just the little voices in their heads), they come up with some convoluted medical reason why sex is so incredibly risky and dangerous. FWIW, a moral and ethical opinion in the matter is a valid argument when presented in an honest and transparent manner (though, obviously, not very convincing to people who do not share their values and beliefs). In their heads, they think a half-ass scientific/medical argument might have more sway. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
MidlifeMama Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) No. At this point the hall pass is off the table for me. I’m simply trying to keep an open mind and not judge those who want to go that route. Let me be clear: I’m not comfortable with taking her up on her hall pass. So my next option is what? At this point, I’m contimplating ending a passionless marriage because I’m tired of being taken for granted. Don’t we deserve to be with someone who feels as strongly for us as we do for them? I’m trying to be sensitive to her physiological issues, and she’s trying to be sensitive to my needs, but at the end of the day who are we kidding? My kids are my focus now and I’d do anything for them, so they are keeping me grounded. Am I being selfish for wanting my wife to be more than just a friend or really close business partner? No,no,and no you are not selfish. This struck a cord with me today. I feel selfish also. I feel like, I will hurt my entire family for what? To want a romantic, and yes sexual experience with someone who wants the same from me? Now that we (My husband & I) are no longer "raising" a family, the dynamics have changed. It's US now and we should be all over one another. We are not. We have tried and tried and now there is ED. I suspect that is due to all the talks and lack of much left between us in the sexual dept. BUT, I STILL feel guilty, even though my kids are older. If what you really have is a business partnership, that is not likely to get better. You sound committed to your kids, that in itself will sustain you should you decide to divorce. Divorce is sad but remember, they see and know a lot more of what's going on at home. Do they see affection, touching, kissing? Kids pick up cues and know things and learn how to be in relationships based on what they see and hear. It doesn't have to be devastating, it can depend on how each one handles it and how it's presented to them. I think you both would be on the same page about being gentle, kind to them and mainly one another. If this is what you decide think about approach... facts to spouse, gentle, kind words and not accusations but needs are not being met. We have one life, we aren't dead and our children can still mean everything to us, even if not married to their other parent. Geeze, I need to take this advise YES you deserve to be with someone who wants you as much as you want them !!!!! Edited February 1, 2018 by MidlifeMama 1 Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Well apparently it works perfectly well for some couples and I applaud any couple who works together to keep each other happy and their marriage alive. Not everything works for everyone, but I wouldn’t want to live in a world where everyone has to march to the same drum. I personally believe staying in a marriage with little or no sex or passion is a joke. Taking in sickness and in health, you know the wedding vows, they must be a joke as well. Open marriages work well? From being on forums for years i have seen very few times where good comes out of them. I have seen hundreds of stories where a good marriage went bad after opening it for one marriage that survived it. Link to post Share on other sites
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