In Love With Different Sex Drives, My Wife Gave Me A Pass

[StillRambunctious]

I'm of the thought that she doesn't want sex with you.

 

A. Her lack of desire with you,

B. Her suggestion that you have sex with other people (most likely so she can too)

C. The discussion of swinging...really? That seems contrary to her menopause issue.

 

Something is going on more than menopause...I can't put a finger on it, but if you don't, your next threads have a good chance of being in the divorce or infidelity forums.

 

Thanks. I believe I’ve/we’ve addressed all of these issues in prior posts within this thread. Yes, we have an unconventional marriage, we both understand that and aside from the sex issue, it works for us. Everyone is healthy and successful. That frankly has to account for something. I’m confident we’ll figure out what’s best for all of us, but the kids will always be in our focus. I’ll continue to fight to make it all work until it doesn’t anymore. I can only do the best I can with the situation I’m in.

[lucy_in_disguise]

One issue that I do not think has been brought up is that your wife specifically suggested you have sex with others as long as it's "just sex". What is "just sex", and how do you reconcile it with the fact that you need to be intellectually attracted to someone to go through with it?

 

Your wife also doesn't like dealing with feelings, which means she may not have processed the emotional implications of this arrangement all the way through.

 

I think it will be difficult for both of you to manage the emotional side of things in a way that is supportive to the marriage if you go through with this. I predict you will develop feelings for a woman you sleep with, while your wife either discovers her jealousy/ built up resentment, or shuts down further emotionally.

 

You seem to have a good marriage outside the (relatively recent) sex issue. Some situations are laden with too much risk. Proceed with cautioun.

[central]

Before you go any further, I suggest that your wife consult a hormone specialist. She may regain some of her drive with estradiol patches, progesterone supplements, and/or compounded testosterone cream. Which combination is best for her depends on other factors and side effects, if any. You may find that you don't need a hall pass if this works.

 

We have had an open relationship for 18 years. We also agreed early on that either of us would be free to pursue sex elsewhere if one of us were unable or unwilling (e.g., due to unfixable loss of libido) to have sex as often as the other needed.

 

[We're also open to polyamorous relationships, if we develop feelings for someone else while pursuing sex - we're so compatible and so deeply love each other that we have no concern that we'd split up by bringing in another partner. Not everyone could handle this level of relationship, of course, and I am not suggesting it.]

 

We've also experimented with this just for variety (we both have very high sex drives, and like the novelty of new lovers occasionally). I will say that it can be very difficult for a married man to find partners just for sex, whereas women have no trouble whatsoever unless they're very unattractive. Even on swinger sites, most males have no success - the few that do are usually very attractive and very social, and good at MFM threesomes. It can happen, but the successes can be few, and far between. I've done fairly well, but it's inconsistent.

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that it can work, but it isn't easy. If there's another solution, such as hormone therapy for her, that should be pursued first.

[Maraud3r]

This really sounds like she's using a low sex drive to wriggle out of having sex with you more than anything, especially since she first gave you a hall pass then brought up swinging. Which someone with no sex drive should not be interested in. And given how much you say you love her, want sex with her, how you much value faithfulness etc. Just imagine her denying you this while lying beneath another man. Would you really be able to handle this?

 

As for giving you a "go ahead", sexual dimorphism is a thing. It's harder and more tiresome for men to get laid on a casual basis. Much more so when they're in a commited relationship. Something I doubt she's unaware of. She just dumped the whole "low sex drive" thing in your ball court. By now being able to go "well, I gave you a choice" while simultaneously laying the foundation for straying herself or justifying it if she has already done so.

 

Other people have said these things do not add up and I absolutely agree with them. Something here is really off and it seems you're the last person to find out.

[central]

This really sounds like she's using a low sex drive to wriggle out of having sex with you more than anything, especially since she first gave you a hall pass then brought up swinging. Which someone with no sex drive should not be interested in.

 

Well, I don't really agree with this. Even people with low sex drive can sometimes get excited by the prospect of sex with someone new. It may not last, or they may seldom want to repeat such an experience, but it can still be exciting occasionally.

[StillRambunctious]

Thanks Central. It's good to know I'm not alone in the wilderness. Yes, she has talked to her doctor about hormone therapy and is trying over-the-counter methods first. She will be meeting with her doc again soon to discuss it further.

 

Maruad3r, thanks for the input. This seems to be a recurring issue and one that is confusing, so first let me apologize for stating it earlier, and second, let me clarify again. The "swinging" activity was brought up and discussed in the heat of hot talk between the two of us, kind of exploring each other's boundaries and fantasies, while we had both been drinking. I'm certain it was I who brought it up and she reluctantly agreed to it "under the right circumstances," which quite frankly are pretty lofty (everyone has to be hot, it can't be anyone we know, it has to be somewhere far from home so we don't run into anyone we know, they can't talk, haha, etc). So let's just say we can take swinging as a couple off the table for discussion, unless someone spots a unicorn.

 

The "pass" was given to me in the sense that if I meet someone while traveling or at a gig (I'm a musician) and something happens, she wouldn't be upset, but she also doesn't want to know about it, it must be discreet and it can't be long-term. (While typing this I'm realizing again how many rules she has. haha) She also gave me the okay to explore swinging on my own (safely and discreetly), but as you stated, I've learned how nearly impossible that is.

 

Also, let me just say, we've been through a lot together and have stuck by each other, fought for each other and still know what the other is thinking at certain times (it's kind of creepy). Anyway, my point is, I trust her. I'm pretty darn confident she's not laying the groundwork for "getting something on the side" as most guys like to put it. Hell, I don't know another guy who would put up with her demands or her lack of warmth. Hahaha .... She is still damn hot though.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling. As you guys have stated, this isn't so easy for a guy in my situation to just go "get some." Even though I'm in good shape, funny, musically inclined, and I believe still pretty good looking, I'm also still married. When everyone knows you're married, well, hooking up with someone is frowned upon at the very least. You can be labeled a creep pretty darn quickly. Going to strip clubs with friends seems to become a more frequent past time, but that gets old and expensive really quick.

 

So, I'll keep trying to figure it out. Thanks again for the feedback. Every little bit helps.

Edited January 26, 2018 by StillRambunctious

[Maraud3r]

You say you trust her, love her, know what she thinks etc. Yet you are getting more and more defensive about the entire situation, her and her motivations. That seems, odd. It's also reminiscent of many other people we have here in the past, who often did not try to convince others but themselves.

 

You say you're a musician, you're travelling and on gigs. Does this mean you're gone for days at a time or even longer? If yes it might just be be wisest to wait for your thread in a few months or years down the road at this point.

 

Well, I don't really agree with this. Even people with low sex drive can sometimes get excited by the prospect of sex with someone new. It may not last, or they may seldom want to repeat such an experience, but it can still be exciting occasionally.

So you're telling me that someone has a low sex drive, so sex with the person they supposedly have great sex with, is their soulmate, they love and cherish and want to spend time with does not manage to excite them. Yet sex with a stranger does.

 

That's not a low sex drive, that's being not sexually interested in their partners and rationalizing why they are when it comes to strangers. Sex outside the relationship just seems like the last step from a relationship to being a cohabitating single out on the prowl.

[central]

So you're telling me that someone has a low sex drive, so sex with the person they supposedly have great sex with, is their soulmate, they love and cherish and want to spend time with does not manage to excite them. Yet sex with a stranger does.

 

That's not a low sex drive, that's being not sexually interested in their partners and rationalizing why they are when it comes to strangers. Sex outside the relationship just seems like the last step from a relationship to being a cohabitating single out on the prowl.

 

You may find it unbelievable, but I've seen it happen.

 

Some people become LD as they get older, due to declining hormone levels, for example. Even then, the prospect of a new lover can get the juices flowing - temporarily. It works for HD people too, of course, but perhaps even more-so. And often, that temporarily increased libido will carry over to their love relationship (the soulmate they cherish, even) for a while, until that hormonal boost fades away. I've seen that happen, too.

[StillRambunctious]

Ha! Please tell me where I was defensive in my last comment. I merely tried to clarify an earlier comment about swinging and add a little insight into our relationship. We are both adults and are pretty clear with each other about our goals, our boundaries and our needs and threats. I didn’t come here to bitch or drag anyone through the mud. I also didn’t come here to listen to conspiracy theories from someone who clearly has an agenda. Maybe you’d like me to put her on here so you could interrogate her. I’d pay money and make popcorn for that! Haha

 

Anyway, like I said before, just looking for some input from anyone who has dealt with this situation and who can comment without judgment. I thank those who are able to do that.

[MidlifeMama]

I think you have an interesting dilemma, so to speak.

You sound like sex for you needs to be emotional and have an connection. You like the tease, the romance, all of that. That's very nice and you need to receive that back.

You aren't getting that from your wife,(not just sex) so she gives you a hall pass.

 

Tell me if I'm wrong, but it is possible your hall pass could turn into getting many needs met that don't necessarily include penetration. You must not be getting affection such a teasing, kissing, making out, foreplay, etc as maybe that would lead to sex for most? I may be wrong and apologize if I am. Those are needs as well.

 

What if you take your hall pass and the first time around you are like eh, that was not what I expected. Now you take hall pass #2 and she is smokin hot, you have great sex and she wants to continue to see you as often as possible?

 

O.K. still working for you as you walk around the house with a smile from ear to ear and can't share why because your wife doesn't want to know about it. It would be awkward if she did and you told her! So, you hold it all inside.

 

Now you keep going back to said hall pass and she is falling for you. Wants to know YOU. You love the attention, you think of her constantly because hey, you kinda like her and hello, the sex is amazing.

 

Then you go home and the wife starts to look less and less appealing. You still love her, but cant get hall pass off your mind. It wasn't supposed to involve feelings but you can't hide what you feel. So now there is no going back because your wife still doesn't want sex and you've grown further apart.

 

You want to hold it together because everything else is great in your family life, but you can't get hall pass off your mind.

 

I am only putting this scenario out there for you to think long term because a one time hall pass is not going to cut it. You know it isn't. You'll want more, especially when it feels good.

 

I don't think your a bad guy at all. I also don't think your wife is a bad lady. I think you have great communication. I feel bad that she doesn't want sex. I am post-menopausal and though I don't get as wet, coconut oil works great and my hormones are raging. Not everyone is like that. My husband is the don't want sex partner in my relationship.

 

I never got a hall pass, but he hinted many times that maybe he couldn't satisfy me and he would "Forgive" me if "something" happened. You see, he doesn't know that I have used my hall pass. I fell for someone though I can only see him once a year. Here's what it did... it made me desire my husband even less. When you aren't getting what you need and still love the person you are with, it is hard to keep it together. I care deeply for my husband. We get along great, we are the best of friends. Raised great kids, but I grew tired of him not wanting me. Fast forward, I did wrong, I know this but having said that, it doesn't take away the fact that adding a hall pass or full blown lover can make any good contributions to a marriage. Sure if one doesn't know, the other does know and that one will not have the same feelings for their spouse. They may still love them but you MAY start to look at her more as a roommate.

 

I just want to say that if you think that taking the hall pass will fulfill you and you can continue on at home status quo, you may be very disappointed to find out it changes you. It may change how you look at your wife and whether or not it is enough. You need to be prepared for that because right now you are excited at the thought of being able to have sex while keeping your marriage intact because you got the green light, but not thinking about how it could turn out emotionally.

 

Something else to consider..what if said lover ends up pregnant or one of you ends up with an STD? Now those things could certainly happen, and then dang, talk about putting a damper on things.

 

 

So, I guess all you can do is try it. See how it feels, see what happens. You may find that it is not fulfilling. You may find it very fulfilling and works out for you both. Chances are strong it will cause a lot of stress and friction because it wont be a 1 time deal. In that case it turns into juggling an affair partner (which is what the hall pass will be) and home life.

 

If you can't work out the sex and closeness in your marriage, you may at some point have to decide if you truly want to stay long term. I don't envy you. I'm in the same boat. I wish you well.

[central]

I just want to say that if you think that taking the hall pass will fulfill you and you can continue on at home status quo, you may be very disappointed to find out it changes you. It may change how you look at your wife and whether or not it is enough. You need to be prepared for that because right now you are excited at the thought of being able to have sex while keeping your marriage intact because you got the green light, but not thinking about how it could turn out emotionally

 

This is a very well thought through post. The part I quoted is particularly something to consider. However, my view is that IF you do find someone better suited for the long term, go for it. I don't think relationships need to last forever, particularly if they aren't working well. There are significant issues in OP's, and while there are many good things, it is possible he can be happier overall.

 

Basically, let events take you where they will. Either do nothing and accept things as they are, or be open to all possibilities. Don't put unrealistic restrictions in place before you even begin to explore.

 

Personally, in my own case, we both feel that if either of us finds someone so much better for them, they'd better go for it. Life is short enough and happiness so elusive, that we think it's right to pursue it. Ethically, of course, which means openly and honestly. Sure, it would be very painful for either of us if the other left, but we are both very capable of finding another great match. It wouldn't be an irrecoverable disaster. And, since we do love each other, we'd be happy for them, hard as that would be at first.

[Mr. Lucky]

The "pass" was given to me in the sense that if I meet someone while traveling or at a gig (I'm a musician) and something happens, she wouldn't be upset, but she also doesn't want to know about it, it must be discreet and it can't be long-term. (While typing this I'm realizing again how many rules she has. haha)

 

Which just points out the ephemeral nature of what you're considering. She doesn't want to know and yet wants to lay the ground rules. And each trip you'd come home from, she'd get to wonder "did he or didn't he".

 

If you think you're not having much marital sex now, wait until you put this arrangement in place...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Maraud3r]

I also didn’t come here to listen to conspiracy theories from someone who clearly has an agenda. Maybe you’d like me to put her on here so you could interrogate her. I’d pay money and make popcorn for that! Haha

Yes, not defensive at all. I guess the men and women who pointed out that some of these things are contradictory all have both an agender and are "conspiracy" nutters.

 

Meanwhile the ones who reassure you obviously are calm, well adjusted and reasonable adults. Even if some of them are admitted cheaters.

 

You see, most of us do not have an agenda or designs for you, your wife or relationship. Heck, you likely live halfway across the globe. We're merely giving feedback. That you do not like some of it is fine but if you merely want reassurance you might want to rephrase your threads in the future.

 

You may find it unbelievable, but I've seen it happen.

No, I absolutely do not find it unbelievable. I do believe you. I merely have a different view and take on such behaviour. If someone is fine with their partner not being sexually attracted to them anymore, going out to get a third party to do the deed and then return using the memories and feelings from the third party to distract themselves so they can lower themselves to have sex with their spouse that is fine!

[RecentChange]

I am not sure I want to Wade into this.... But I will say I have seen this not work ... And have seen it work.

 

My advice?

 

GET A VASECTOMY

 

You really do not want to accidentally knock someone up, and no BC is 100% condoms break etc.

 

I know a couple where he has a hall pass, but this was a prerequisite, and I think it's a wise one.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Rambunctious, lot of good advice from a lot of experienced posters. Midlife made some very valid points. So did Central. Also RC as usual came up with sane and sensible advice.

 

I was wondering if you are fixated on having PIV sex with your wife or, if other forms of sexual contact with her would also meet your needs, if not fully, then in enough degree to satisfy your strong urges. My only concern is where you mentioned that your wife lacked warmth. This could be a killer. However, if we put that aside for the moment, could your wife give you oral sex? You know a blow job? Also she could give you a hand job. All this preceded by a lot of foreplay and kissing and cuddling if that is what gets both of you going. Maybe a glass of wine each to get both of you warmed up and your inhibitions down a little. How about reading erotic stories together or the famous Penthouse letters? Anything to get your libidos especially hers, escalating to new highs. If nothing else works share your weirdest sexual fantasies with each other.

 

On another note, the solution to your finding willing female partners to utilize your hall pass is to search websites like CL and AM for so called Hotwives with whom you can have NSA sex and if you gel with someone in particular, can have a long term sexual relationship with someone without the danger of it turning into something emotional. However this would be highly unconventional and both you and your wife would have to discuss something like this threadbare before you jump into it headfirst. Just some thoughts to help you along the way. Maybe others can pitch in and offer their own views. As a point of clarification I would like to state that I have no personal experience in this matter and what I have had to say is based on information gleaned off the internet and other reading material. How it will impact you, your wife and your marriage is an unknown phenomenon and there are no guarantees that things will work out smoothly for you. Personally, I would not step into this kind of quicksand but that is because of my own beliefs and sense of ethics. However, I learned a long time ago that 'One Man's meat is another man's poison' and ' To live and let live'! What is wrong for me may very well be right for you as long as you for not hurt anyone else in the process. Warm regards.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Just a Guy

[kgcolonel]

just a quick question on a comment you made...you reference your marriage as being unconventional...in what way would you say that it is unconventional?

[StillRambunctious]

Hi Rambunctious, lot of good advice from a lot of experienced posters. Midlife made some very valid points. So did Central. Also RC as usual came up with sane and sensible advice.

 

I completely agree, Just A Guy! Thank you to all of the posters who have offered thoughtful positive advice and experiences. I'm looking at you Just A Guy, Midlife, Central and RC and others. You all seem to understand my conundrum well. The easiest thing to do is to blame others for your problems. I'm not going to do that. I'm also not going to immediately jump to the conclusion that "she's cheating" or "there's something nefarious going on," because I know us well enough to trust that isn't the case. I'm also not going to start spying on her, as some would suggest, because that simply creates a toxic environment that kills anything good in a relationship. If the trust is gone, to the point of spying on each other, than quite frankly, the relationship is dead in my opinion.

 

Midlife, you are absolutely spot on. It's more than just the "penetration" that I miss. I want the affection, the foreplay, the closeness, everything that goes with a passionate relationship. I want what we had before these changes started to happen. In addition to the premenstrual issues, My wife's business is growing with great success, from which she gets a great sense of pride and satisfaction, as do I. I believe that evolution (from mother/wife to successful business owner) has also brought on a new sense of independence that adds to the issue of physiological changes in her body. Quite frankly, she has found other things to be passionate about.

 

You see, we've both spent $$$$$$ in the past on therapists (individually and together) to try find a solution. The solution the therapists suggested was to try to find happiness within, rather than from each other. (I know, what a waste of $$$$$$.) That's easy to do if neither of us had this desire, but I'm the one who gets revved up when her hair brushes me when she walks by, or when I see her naked getting out of the shower, or when I feel the warmth of her body or smell her skin when we actually do hug. So when those things occur, my new practice is to refocus on something else like taking care of the kids, getting busy on a project, creating some new music or art, etc. That way I can avoid an awkward rejection that I will most definitely internalize and not handle well.

 

So there it is. I'm trying to work through it, but I have few friends or peers I can talk to about this. I don't want air out our dirty laundry to people we both know, and therapists seem to be just a waste of money. So here I am, spilling my guts to strangers anonymously.

 

Your point about what happens next emotionally if I take her up on the hall pass is also spot on. That is exactly the dilemma I contemplate. I'll share one experience I recently had. I made an online friend on a different marriage forum site. We started chatting about our issues and struck up a very close friendship. One day last year, she surprised me by flying cross-country to attend one of my gigs. And was I surprised! She is a knockout and we hit it off like we had been friends since childhood. We spent a lot of time together that weekend, talking over dinner and drinks, touring the city, etc. We had an obvious strong attraction to one another and could have taken it farther romantically, but we didn't. Why? Because we were both fearful of what would come next. How would it affect our family lives? We still talk via email often, but we're now very cautious with each other. I think because we both know how close we were to making things extremely complicated.

 

Anyway, that provides just a bit more insight into my situation. It's a difficult one and I appreciate all of the advice and beneficial critiques. I'm nowhere near perfect and a work in progress, but I'm confident that if I continue to use my head first (the one on my shoulders, haha) I can work my way through this. But it's always nice to bounce things off others to make sure I'm on the right track.

[wmacbride]

op,

whatever you decide to do or not do, be true to yourself. If going outside your marriage is something you strongly eel will not be right for you, then don't do it. If you feel it is something you can live with, so long as you and your wife are on the same page, then it's something to consider.

 

Take your time, as there is no rush. Talk to your wife some more. As the saying goes " act in haste, repent at leisure".

[Just a Guy]

Hi Rambunctious, I guess you do have a dilemma. I have to say that creative people are actually highly sexed people, especially men although the ladies are not far behind. I do not know how intensely you feel about this but if it is something that is reaching a stage where it trumps everything else then maybe you and your wife need to have a serious talk about whether you should continue with your union or not. If your wife is unable or unwilling to meet your needs and is not prepared to make the slightest effort in that direction, then maybe it is time to wish each other well and go your separate ways.

 

I do not remember how long you have been married but I guess it must be near 20 years or more. I know that would make it very difficult for both of you because of history and because you are still in love. However, your last post lead me to think that your wife is probably insulating herself from your obvious passion possibly because, as you said, she lacks warmth and also because she is now getting a high from her business success and thinks that giving into carnal desires will diminish her capacity and capability to perform successfully in her chosen field.

 

Maybe you could ascertain her views on getting a divorce and see what she has to say. If she is vehement in her dismissal of the idea then you know that she is still invested in you and in the marriage. If she is ambivalent or wishy washy about it, then you would know that she is probably open to the idea as her investment is now tenuous to say the least. I may be completely on the wrong track and since you are the person wearing the shoe, you would know where exactly it pinches. You know your wife better than anybody else and you will most likely gauge her thoughts and feelings accurately. In the context of turning things over in your mind, I thought that throwing out this thought would also be relevant for you. Wish you the best going forward.

[StillRambunctious]

Thanks again. Solid advice. I’m fact, one of the most useful (there have been few) bits of advice from my therapist was to be always ready to walk away or be left. That actually has helped me be stronger in our relationship and we have discussed it before. She was strongly opposed to divorce at the time, but I’m thinking I may need to re-evaluate. At the very least it will demonstrate how serious I am about wanting more.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Look, anything's possible I guess, but I'm pretty confident that's not the case. We both run our own businesses from home, so we pretty much know where the other one is 24/7. If anything, we may spend too much time together. haha

 

yeah, don't let these guys project their insecurities on to you. Her sex drive has dropped and she is giving you a hall pass to tgo get your rocks off somewhere else.

 

So go do it. At least once. It won't be the end of the world, and you may find that it's not as fulfilling as you thought it would be. or maybe it will?

 

Who knows. We put so much pressure and focus on it. It's just sex. It feels good and our bodies are MEANT to crave it.

 

If I got an HONEST hall pass I would take it. The question you need to ask is if hers was honest. Some women offer one just hoping to hear that you "would never do that."

[Mr. Lucky]

If I got an HONEST hall pass

 

And if I saw a unicorn, I'd probably try and get a ride. There's about an equal chance of both occurring.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/649715-husband-got-another-woman-pregnant

 

She gave her husband a hall pass. Ask her how it's working out...

 

Mr. Lucky

[StillRambunctious]

And if I saw a unicorn, I'd probably try and get a ride. There's about an equal chance of both occurring.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/649715-husband-got-another-woman-pregnant

 

She gave her husband a hall pass. Ask her how it's working out...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

My God! If this were happening in my home I would sharpen the knife and hand it to my wife.

[OneParadox]

My 2 Cents: you are way overthinking this. At the end of the day each couple comes up with its own arrangement. And what works for some does not work for others. These arrangements go from "divorce if you ever dare to even look at someone of the opposite sex" (seriously: some spouses will not tolerate any interactions with anyone of the opposite sex) to fully open marriages. Most couples are somewhere in between. And, in many ways, each one is unique. You would be surprised by the things spouses are allowed and prohibited from doing (even in the most "traditional" looking pairs).

 

FWIW, this is a very generous and open minded offer from your wife. Even if you decide not to go through with anything (or fail to find the proper situation/playmate to do it), the fact you have been given the freedom to even consider it is quite a gift to you. Enjoy it!

[StillRambunctious]

FWIW, this is a very generous and open minded offer from your wife. Even if you decide not to go through with anything (or fail to find the proper situation/playmate to do it), the fact you have been given the freedom to even consider it is quite a gift to you. Enjoy it!

 

Thanks for the feedback. I completely agree that it's an open-minded and generous offer. It's also a difficult proposition for me to just take lightly. Too much at stake. That is why I'm not in a good space to just have fun with it yet. Maybe. Someday. Maybe not.