Question for those doing NC ***Updated***

[Scoutjr]

I get what you're saying.

I am not speaking or speculating directly on this specific MM, but a general observation I have after meeting several couples where the WS is leading a constant double life, because that is their intentional decision, to keep their home as a safe haven while doing whatever they want outside.

There is no way to know what their home life is like. If he is getting enough out of his relationship with his wife and wants to maintain it, it's possible he's a perfect husband and father and that is her main experience of him. It's tricky, because if he can really carry on a double life and not have her suspect at all, he is one cold,manipulative, jerk.

I don't think the BS always knows. If the WS is truly a narcissist, then they put on a show that suits their needs and a BS can be left in the darkness for decades, thinking everything is just great. would we want to be in that position? Probably not, but it doesn't mean she is experiencing his dark side.

 

 

Are you a therapist? Just wondering...

[Scoutjr]

Confessing to relieve ones guilt is not BS. Some can take their affairs to the grave and some can not. The guilt tears them apart. I don't think this OP can hold out much longer. Read what she writes. She does not beat down her husband. She desires to make the AP pay for her sins, while at the same time searches for value in her destruction. She feels that the A is unforgiveable and considers telling both BS. The self flagellation paints a picture of a WS in torment. Unfortunately for her, she has a conscience and will probaly talk.

 

Perhaps you should spend some time considering how you want all this to end. Lets assume this comes out in some fashion. What do you want of your husband and marriage? You wrote your husband is the strongest man you know. This is your blessing and your curse. A strong man could take the pain and battle with you, which may result in a stronger marriage. The curse is that a strong man could also throw you out immediately and permanently.

 

Spend some time thinking about your future and the path you wish to follow. Know your answers before you look the man in the eye and start talking.

 

Best wishes to you and your family.

 

Thank you, Cullenbohannon. The one thing I want is the one thing I can't have. To take it all back.

[BluesPower]

Thank you, Cullenbohannon. The one thing I want is the one thing I can't have. To take it all back.

 

You know... I know that all of this is so hard.

 

But I really think you are making progress. Just keep your head up.

[whatcomesnext]

Scout, I know you’ve been doing a lot of thinking about “why” this happened. Have you read or seen any of Esther Perel’s work in this area? I’ve found it to be helpful and relatable. Here is a link to her Ted talk from a couple of years ago.

Edited February 8, 2018 by whatcomesnext

[Scoutjr]

Scout, I know you’ve been doing a lot of thinking about “why” this happened. Have you read or seen any of Esther Perel’s work in this area? I’ve found it to be helpful and relatable. Here is a link to her Ted talk from a couple of years ago.

 

Thank you! I'm reading the transcript on my phone...very interesting. I'll report back when I am finished!

[Scoutjr]

You know... I know that all of this is so hard.

 

But I really think you are making progress. Just keep your head up.

 

Do you really think so? I hope I am. I want to get to the point where I don't feel anything for MM at all, not anger, not love, not hate. Just indifference. I wonder if that is possible.

 

As for my DH, he is a good person. We have a "nice" life, nice kids, good friends, our families of origin are a bit messed up, but whose isn't. I do feel something is missing in my life. I do think it has to do with me, I am almost 50 years old and I feel like I should have figured it out by now.

 

Sorry, went off on a tangent.

[BluesPower]

Do you really think so? I hope I am. I want to get to the point where I don't feel anything for MM at all, not anger, not love, not hate. Just indifference. I wonder if that is possible.

 

As for my DH, he is a good person. We have a "nice" life, nice kids, good friends, our families of origin are a bit messed up, but whose isn't. I do feel something is missing in my life. I do think it has to do with me, I am almost 50 years old and I feel like I should have figured it out by now.

 

Sorry, went off on a tangent.

 

I think MacBride said that, "You need to think about how and if you are going to rebuild your marriage. And you need to start thinking about your H."

 

I really think that is some super advise. It took me until about 50 to work out some stuff. So you are not alone in that.

 

You have had all the advice, you know the score, you know what you have done. And while you are sad in a way that the "so called" good parts of the affair are gone. That is in quotes because there really are no good parts to an affair.

 

You intellectually know that it was all fantasy.

 

But really, you have to pull yourself up with your big girl panties and move on. If you want to stay married to your H, wallowing in the end of this affair is not going to help you. He may be a good man, but I am betting that he is not stupid. No matter how well you think you are covering up your affair, he knows.

 

The thing is, it all sucks and until you start to live authentically, it will.

 

Start thinking about your husband and your family, because your xMM is never, ever going to feel the pain that you are feeling.

 

See where I am coming from?

[CommittedToThis]

Hi Scout,

 

Just a couple things to do with what you will:

 

Why don’t I block him? Good question. Maybe I still feel like there will be a chance for closure...

 

Rule number 1: There is no such thing as "closure" when dealing with a narcissist. You just have to accept this. They are incapable of viewing you in any way other than being an object. Do you offer a heartfelt "goodbye, I'm going to miss you, all the best and let's stay in touch" to the couch you are discarding?

 

You are the couch in his eyes.

 

Until you are mentally ready to block xMM in every way possible, you are opening yourself to revictimization.

 

I want to get to the point where I don't feel anything for MM at all, not anger, not love, not hate. Just indifference. I wonder if that is possible.

 

Yes, it's totally possible and not only that, once you break the bonds completely your life will open up in ways you never imagined.

 

It starts with true no contact. Think of all the times he's let you down or otherwise made you feel bad next time you want to reach out. Put whatever anger he inspires to good use.

 

Know that you will "win" by never, ever giving him the pleasure of your attention. Give it to someone who deserves it.

 

I guess it’s hard to accept I’m human. I was always told my feelings were wrong from a young age and that I should not have them.

 

This is just wrong and I am sorry you were fed this abusive nonsense from childhood. You didn't ask for nor deserved to be told this crap, it's not on you anymore, ok? You were just a kid, it's not your fault.

 

It's theirs. You don't have to own this if you don't want to. It's as easy as saying, "I did nothing to deserve to be treated badly as a child, this is all on my abuser(s) and they can own it, I'm moving on."

 

Here's what saved me: "People treat you the way you allow them to."

 

Everything you need to know to be successful in life is right there. People like you and I were raised to perhaps feel we were not measuring up or were otherwise wrong in some way; narcissists can smell us a mile away. Eau de Empathy is their favorite scent because they themselves lack it.

 

Please, Scout, delve into the concept that maybe your childhood issues have affected your adult decisions in ways that are not healthy or normal.

 

I do think it has to do with me, I am almost 50 years old and I feel like I should have figured it out by now.

 

In my research into childhood abuse I've learned a lot of us do not process what happened until much later in life. We are too busy in our 20s-40s establishing careers and raising families and otherwise distracting ourselves.

 

Once we reach middle age and slow down a bit, that's when the memories start to reappear.

 

I envy folks who come to grips with this stuff early in life; I'm 55 and I only just figured it out but, hey, better late than never.

 

I wish you the best, Scout. I think you have the empathy to stick with this and do the right thing. The fact xMM is a narcissist should scare the living daylights out of you.

Edited February 8, 2018 by CommittedToThis

[Scoutjr]

Hi Scout,

 

Just a couple things to do with what you will:

 

 

 

Rule number 1: There is no such thing as "closure" when dealing with a narcissist. You just have to accept this. They are incapable of viewing you in any way other than being an object. Do you offer a heartfelt "goodbye, I'm going to miss you, all the best and let's stay in touch" to the couch you are discarding?

 

You are the couch in his eyes.

 

Until you are mentally ready to block xMM in every way possible, you are opening yourself to revictimization.

 

 

 

Yes, it's totally possible and not only that, once you break the bonds completely your life will open up in ways you never imagined.

 

It starts with true no contact. Think of all the times he's let you down or otherwise made you feel bad next time you want to reach out. Put whatever anger he inspires to good use.

 

Know that you will "win" by never, ever giving him the pleasure of your attention. Give it to someone who deserves it.

 

 

 

This is just wrong and I am sorry you were fed this abusive nonsense from childhood. You didn't ask for nor deserved to be told this crap, it's not on you anymore, ok? You were just a kid, it's not your fault.

 

It's theirs. You don't have to own this if you don't want to. It's as easy as saying, "I did nothing to deserve to be treated badly as a child, this is all on my abuser(s) and they can own it, I'm moving on."

 

Here's what saved me: "People treat you the way you allow them to."

 

Everything you need to know to be successful in life is right there. People like you and I were raised to perhaps feel we were not measuring up or were otherwise wrong in some way; narcissists can smell us a mile away. Eau de Empathy is their favorite scent because they themselves lack it.

 

Please, Scout, delve into the concept that maybe your childhood issues have affected your adult decisions in ways that are not healthy or normal.

 

 

 

In my research into childhood abuse I've learned a lot of us do not process what happened until much later in life. We are too busy in our 20s-40s establishing careers and raising families and otherwise distracting ourselves.

 

Once we reach middle age and slow down a bit, that's when the memories start to reappear.

 

I envy folks who come to grips with this stuff early in life; I'm 55 and I only just figured it out but, hey, better late than never.

 

I wish you the best, Scout. I think you have the empathy to stick with this and do the right thing. The fact xMM is a narcissist should scare the living daylights out of you.

 

Thank you for your kind words committed to this (CTT). They really did mean a lot to me and helped me feel less alone, especially what you said directly above. I feel like I shouldn't have those feelings!

[Scoutjr]

Sorry for a new post. I just want to get to a place where I just don't care about x-MM. No love, no hate, no wanting anything. I know Poppy is there, anyone else have words of wisdom?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Sorry for a new post. I just want to get to a place where I just don't care about x-MM. No love, no hate, no wanting anything. I know Poppy is there, anyone else have words of wisdom?

 

This is not specifically about other man/other woman, but I really think the only way to achieve this is time.

[grass-hopper]

Sorry for a new post. I just want to get to a place where I just don't care about x-MM. No love, no hate, no wanting anything. I know Poppy is there, anyone else have words of wisdom?

 

That’s the magical question.

I have no words of wisdom for you.

I too am in search of that moment where indifference kicks in.

[Poppy47]

Scoutjr

 

I slipped and fell a number of times. It is just absolute NC in every way.

 

You need to be totally aware at all times that you will be tempted in difficult times. It needs resolve and hard work.

 

I think one of the most important things you can do is to keep occupied with new things, people, or even clean out the cupboards.

 

Get your brain out of the patterns it has become comfortable in.

 

Easy to say. Hard to do.

 

Poppy.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Put your focus back on you. Every time you think of xMM, ask yourself what you can do for yourself in that moment to make you feel better. Ideas: manicure, organizing your space, a massage, walk in nature, go to the beach, hug a child, love a pet, make a list of all you are grateful for, tackle a project you've been putting off, etc.

 

The more you do for yourself, the less you will believe your happiness lies with xMM, because you will be generating that happiness for yourself. Hugs!

[Bittersweetie]

Sorry for a new post. I just want to get to a place where I just don't care about x-MM. No love, no hate, no wanting anything. I know Poppy is there, anyone else have words of wisdom?

 

I am indifferent to xAP and I agree with PP, it just takes time. As time moved on, and clarity set in, when I would think about certain aspects of the A, they began to be tainted with the negativity of my actions. Therefore my thoughts became more about "why did I make that choice" than about xAP.

 

If you are looking for a specific timeframe, I can only speak for myself, and I reached indifference probably between 6 months to a year out from d-day. However I do think it would've taken much, much longer without having a d-day that immediately brought everything to the surface to be faced head on.

[Scoutjr]

He responded. It was very perfunctory. Not sure how I feel. But I must be strong and refrain from reaching out again even though I desperately want answers. I honestly don't think my therapist is helping.

[Poppy47]

He responded. It was very perfunctory. Not sure how I feel. But I must be strong and refrain from reaching out again even though I desperately want answers. I honestly don't think my therapist is helping.

 

Dump the therapist and get one who is helpful. Shop around... you are the employer.

Poppy.

[Scoutjr]

Dump the therapist and get one who is helpful. Shop around... you are the employer.

Poppy.

Yea, I really need to. I told her I was upset about the very perfunctory response and she told me I should be more flirtatious?! What the what? She was incredibly helpful in my darker times, but now I feel I've outgrown her, but I don't' want to stop completely.

[Adotta]

Yea, I really need to. I told her I was upset about the very perfunctory response and she told me I should be more flirtatious?! What the what? She was incredibly helpful in my darker times, but now I feel I've outgrown her, but I don't' want to stop completely.

 

Jesus christ?! Seriously?! Dump that **** therapist right now! She is feeding you back to the abusive asshat. Be more flirtatious???!!! You have told her your trying to work on your marriage right? How can she be so daft?

 

Sorry for posting here when I'm dealing with my own things and I'm just a young guy but that struck me as insane advice!

 

Can you tell me what it is that draws you to this om so much? Was it just romance? was the sex world shattering? what exactly keeps you hooked? I just ended my own journey into this type of unhealthy relationship and I find its been easier when I know I can find better(I'm not married or dating right now so no bw or gf thank god). But if you can't ever see your husband as better I struggle to see how you can ever get over this om. You will always be comparing them. Maybe not in a mean sense but it's still there. You probably don't even mean too.

 

I feel like you need to get to the point where even if your husband was completely out of the picture and a non issue you would still not want to go back to this om. That's what worked for me. I now know that even if it wasn't impossible for me and my exMW(more complicated then possible to explain) to be together I wouldn't want her any more. She's damaged and super unhealthy for me.

 

I'm sending good thoughts and feeling scout. Stay strong. I've been on the receiving end of obsession and swinging emotions for a long time and I know how hard it can be.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Adotta

[William]

We're about a month down the road from the start of this thread on questions for those doing no contact with an otherwise committed person and moderation will remind members to stay focused on that topic. If you've done no contact with such a person, share your experiences, challenges, successes and advice. Thanks!

[Cullenbohannon]

Everyone can slip and fall. Not everyone can get back up.

[Scoutjr]

Going on two weeks since last contact...shallow victory at that.

[whatcomesnext]

Congratulations Scout! It may seem a small victory to you (especially since you probably don’t FEEL very good) but it is a victory nonetheless. As my therapist has said, NC isn’t necessarily about feeling “good.” I know it’s hard - it really is like withdrawal from a drug. I would never have believed how excruciating and debilitating it could be if I hadn’t experienced it myself. At two weeks every minute, hour, day is a victory so see it as that. Taking your power back, your life back. Keep at it. I slipped up and broke NC at intervals (even months in) because talking to him even briefly felt like such a relief - like Xanax. But the relief was always short lived, didn’t change anything and only made me feel worse in the long run. If I recall correctly your MM is somewhat similar to mine in that he effectively disappeared on you and discarded you in a narcissistic way. Trying to reengage with someone who treated you like that and having the effort fall flat only adds to the feelings of powerlessness and humiliation. At the time I really thought I had to do it, I felt manically compelled to reach out, to “do something.” Push past those feelings. You will only have new negative and painful memories to add to your brain if you don’t. He doesn’t deserve your contact. Keep going!

Edited February 23, 2018 by whatcomesnext

[Scoutjr]

Congratulations Scout! It may seem a small victory to you (especially since you probably don’t FEEL very good) but it is a victory nonetheless. As my therapist has said, NC isn’t necessarily about feeling “good.” I know it’s hard - it really is like withdrawal from a drug. I would never have believed how excruciating and debilitating it could be if I hadn’t experienced it myself. At two weeks every minute, hour, day is a victory so see it as that. Taking your power back, your life back. Keep at it. I slipped up and broke NC at intervals (even months in) because talking to him even briefly felt like such a relief - like Xanax. But the relief was always short lived, didn’t change anything and only made me feel worse in the long run. If I recall correctly your MM is somewhat similar to mine in that he effectively disappeared on you and discarded you in a narcissistic way. Trying to reengage with someone who treated you like that and having the effort fall flat only adds to the feelings of powerlessness and humiliation. At the time I really thought I had to do it, I felt manically compelled to reach out, to “do something.” Push past those feelings. You will only have new negative and painful memories to add to your brain if you don’t. He doesn’t deserve your contact. Keep going!

 

Ah, you are exactly right WCN, I must keep all of this in mind. Relief is short lived and I wind up feeling worse.

[whatcomesnext]

I’ll add this as you think on it Scout. Having broken NC feels worse down the line after the fog starts to lift then it does at the time. When I did it I was so depressed that I felt desperate. Now months later I cringe thinking about how my actions not only hurt me more - and of course could have hurt my H and marriage more, though I was not mentally able to think about that at the time - but could have only served to further stroke his ego and make him feel forgiven and off the hook to the extent he did harbor any guilt. It also communicated to MM a lack of self-respect. It’s not that I did anything embarrassing (no begging, crying, professing love, etc.) or that I broke so many times (maybe three times total broken up by months). But I was friendly and open to someone who hurt and abandoned me. I’ve read in various places that you can’t expect the person who hurt you to heal you, you can’t expect a cat to bark, and you can’t expect to be the exception to someone’s rule. Yet that is exactly what I wanted. Now I have zero desire to contact him. When I see him I ignore him, pretend he isn’t there. I’m not ambivalent yet. I hope one day I will be. For now it still hurts. I still experience a sadness hangover for a few days after seeing him, still feel a sense of loss, regret, guilt, difficulties identifying myself or who I want to be going forward, accepting that I can’t go back in time. But I know now he is not the answer to fixing those issues. Quite the opposite. I’d urge you to check out the blogs Baggage Reclaim and Post Male Syndrome.