Consequences ***Updated***

[Bittersweetie]

I'm still determined to move forward and focus on healthier relationships but this was a disappointing setback.

 

Okay, you broke NC, it happens. But then you write the above. If you want to move forward, and am disappointed in your setback, what are you going to do right now? Restart NC? Change nothing?

 

Do you think that having lunch is really a good idea? I think you've read enough on this site to know that closure comes from us, not xAPs. What is he really going to say or do that will give you more confidence in ending it than right now? Or do you want to see if he can talk you back into it?

 

And how do you feel right now after breaking five weeks of NC?

 

I'm not trying to be mean here or anything. You've proved you can do NC. You've proved you can be the one in control here. So how exactly are you going to move forward?

[CantTakeMySmile]

What is your current plan of action?

[FMW]

Sorry for the long post here, just self-therapy I guess.

 

I'll be honest, I don't have a plan of action right now. I'm hoping the few days I have before Friday will help me figure out what it is I want by reconnecting with him in any way.

 

I think maybe the problem is that I tried to stop the A by going NC. I just kind of faded away from him and he seemed to get the idea and left me alone. Neither of us ever said it was over and done. It's obvious that doesn't work when we actually came face to face again, which was bound to happen. If he had simply responded to me as I did to him, just being cordial but a little distant, I would have moved forward with the NC. But started pursuing me again.

 

So I discovered that I am weak and not ready to walk away if he's not letting go of me. I guess I'm hoping talking to him again, away from a crowd of people, will result in some kind of stronger resolution. I purposely agreed to only meet him in a public place so that all we can do is talk.

 

Some foolish part of me maybe hopes we can still do the activities together we enjoy - golfing, hiking, shooting, chess - and only be together in public and stop the private time unless his marital situation changes. As long as he maintains the status quo I would be free to pursue other romantic interests. But I realize that's not realistic. I will always want more from him. I can't just be his buddy.

 

A complicating factor is my worry that his cancer may take a bad turn sooner than later and do I really want to forego any time we have left together? But I know as long as he and his BW decide to stay in the marriage I need to remove myself and he has no right to expect me to stay around.

 

His BW had been living somewhere else for 9 months when he and I met and stayed away for a total of 2 1/2 years before returning. I know it may be all lies but he says she just couldn't afford to live separately anymore and even though he's tried to reconcile with her she shows no interest in being more than roommates essentially. He retired early to pursue music full time and his medical insurance is through her employer. With his terminal cancer diagnosis and extensive treatment, he can't lose that insurance. And I'm not stupid, I also realize bottom line is he just doesn't want to lose her, their family connections and history and financial stability. Whatever the case I know he won't choose me.

 

I know the reality and what I need to do, I've read so many stories here and posted my own convictions on just walking away and having no contact. But doing it is a whole other thing. So maybe this will serve as a cautionary tale for someone else. The emotional ties and/or addiction can be stronger than anything you've ever known and impossible to fight with logic and reason. It just comes down to how much pain someone is willing to take before it's just not worth it anymore. I thought I was there. Guess not.

[Crazelnut]

Sigh. Do Not Go To Lunch on Friday! You KNOW it is a bad idea. It will set you way back and you know it.

[FMW]

Thanks for the "spankings", I need them Yes I know I'm being stupid. I don't feel great about being back in contact with him, I realized that I felt a type of freedom when I thought it was over, but now a little bit of the heaviness in my heart is back. Even though I still love him, things are not the same for me now. I've had 5 uninterrupted weeks to focus on all the @#%* I allowed him to put me through.

 

Even though I'm not being as smart as I could/should be, I'm not back at square one either. Even while we were still seeing each other regularly I had started distancing myself emotionally from him, little by little. That's what allowed me to start the NC in the first place. I can do it again.

 

Unfortunately I just feel the need to hear what he has to say. If it's the same old stuff then I think my disgust with the situation will kick back in and it will be an easy decision to just end it once and for all.

 

But this has taught me I just don't know until I go through it how I'm going to react. I just have to make my way to the end of this particular journey, I'm not there yet.

[CantTakeMySmile]

So, what is this meeting about? You know he won’t leave his wife and though he has tried to reconcile with her, she is not interested. So, is there relationship totally platonic now. Separate bedrooms. Separate meals etc? Is he allowed to see other women? It would seem so if this is just a marriage for insurance. Are you allowed in his home? Does he have freedom to do as he pleases? If not? Why?

 

What is it you are looking to hear?

[FMW]

Even with all the pain this relationship has caused me, I would do it again (with the exception of still being available to him when his BW moved back into the marital home with him). Because of my long and empty marriage, I prefer pain to the numbness.

 

My friend told me that xMM told her (when I walked away and before he ran out after me) that he wished he'd never met me. She said she thinks he meant because he knew he had hurt me. But obviously it didn't stop him from coming after me.

 

In her own life, she's saying right now she wishes she'd never met her BF of 4 months because it seems he might be lying about seeing someone else. I told her she should take the good (knowing she's able to love someone when she didn't think she could, just as I had felt until I met xMM) and move forward with that experience to find it again.

 

Maybe I'm in the minority of looking at it that way.

[FMW]

CantTakeMySmile, I'm not specifically looking for anything. I'm just curious as to what he's going to say. Like I said, just following this journey through to the end.

 

My guess is that he just wants to continue things the way they always were with me and keep it hidden. Which I cannot and will not do.

 

Last time we spoke about it he said they were just platonic, but that they did "friend" things, like ice skating or bike riding occasionally, but not very often. I assume they share meals together. I don't know about their sleeping arrangements. know he loves her family and so I'm sure he attends family dinners with her. I'm sure she's not ok with him seeing other women, and is seems he has to explain where he spends his time if he's not at home when she is. Last year, shortly after she moved back in, he invited me over to see him at their home while he was recuperating from a surgery and I made it clear that would never happen. I had visited there frequently while she lived elsewhere, but I refused to step foot inside once it was her home as well.

 

I'm sure you are trying to point out to me that he's lying about the lack of intimacy with her, otherwise he would be free to see me or whoever else he might want to see. As I've said, I'm not stupid, I always known that his description of things may be all lies. I really do get it. I know it's impossible to understand how I can see the reality of the situation but still not be completely ready to shut the door on him. It makes no sense, but that's where I'm at.

 

I think part of agreeing to meet him for lunch is to ask him those questions. He brought up during our very brief snippets of conversation on Sunday that things were bad with her. What does he plan to do about the situation? My guess is absolutely nothing, but I'm giving him the chance to answer that one more time. In the past he's always said he would re-evaluate the status of his marriage after x amount of time. The last x amount of time ended at the end of January when they reached the 1 year mark of her being back in the house with him. We haven't had any status talks for almost 6 months. The expiration of that time was one of many things that led me to NC.

 

I know it's frustrating as @*&$ and reading my posts probably makes you want to reach through the computer and smack me. I get it. But again, this is where I'm at and I'm working my way through it.

 

I see this as the ending of the relationship, it's just not going to be as quick and clean as anyone would hope.

 

Reading and posting here is very important to the process and I truly appreciate everyone's responses and in general everyone sharing their stories here.

[S2B]

He didn't take that opportunity of seeing you to announce that his divorce is final - so cancel the meeting on Friday! Nothing good can come from meeting with him!

 

Reconnecting will only start up the affair again - and that's exactly why he asked you! He's selfish!

 

There's no reason to meet him. He wants sex with both women - even if it hurts your feelings to be involved.

[CantTakeMySmile]

CantTakeMySmile, I'm not specifically looking for anything. I'm just curious as to what he's going to say. Like I said, just following this journey through to the end.

 

My guess is that he just wants to continue things the way they always were with me and keep it hidden. Which I cannot and will not do.

 

Last time we spoke about it he said they were just platonic, but that they did "friend" things, like ice skating or bike riding occasionally, but not very often. I assume they share meals together. I don't know about their sleeping arrangements. know he loves her family and so I'm sure he attends family dinners with her. I'm sure she's not ok with him seeing other women, and is seems he has to explain where he spends his time if he's not at home when she is. Last year, shortly after she moved back in, he invited me over to see him at their home while he was recuperating from a surgery and I made it clear that would never happen. I had visited there frequently while she lived elsewhere, but I refused to step foot inside once it was her home as well.

 

I'm sure you are trying to point out to me that he's lying about the lack of intimacy with her, otherwise he would be free to see me or whoever else he might want to see. As I've said, I'm not stupid, I always known that his description of things may be all lies. I really do get it. I know it's impossible to understand how I can see the reality of the situation but still not be completely ready to shut the door on him. It makes no sense, but that's where I'm at.

 

I think part of agreeing to meet him for lunch is to ask him those questions. He brought up during our very brief snippets of conversation on Sunday that things were bad with her. What does he plan to do about the situation? My guess is absolutely nothing, but I'm giving him the chance to answer that one more time. In the past he's always said he would re-evaluate the status of his marriage after x amount of time. The last x amount of time ended at the end of January when they reached the 1 year mark of her being back in the house with him. We haven't had any status talks for almost 6 months. The expiration of that time was one of many things that led me to NC.

 

I know it's frustrating as @*&$ and reading my posts probably makes you want to reach through the computer and smack me. I get it. But again, this is where I'm at and I'm working my way through it.

 

I see this as the ending of the relationship, it's just not going to be as quick and clean as anyone would hope.

 

Reading and posting here is very important to the process and I truly appreciate everyone's responses and in general everyone sharing their stories here.

 

Honestly, I don’t think I am really trying to point out anything. I am not to judge. Just trying to rwlatenit to my own experiences. I would also meet me ex if I had the opportunity, I would want to hear what she had to say.

 

I just don’t know what she could say to make it better.. but I would want to know... because maybe, like you, it will give me the freaking balls to let my heart get over her!!

[FMW]

Can'tTakeMySmile - I didn't think you were judging at all. I don't get offended at people asking questions, I appreciate the responses! I've posted some pretty strong posts here in response to others who were waffling about what to do in similar situations.

 

So much easier to give others advice than to put it in action ourselves

[CantTakeMySmile]

Can'tTakeMySmile - I didn't think you were judging at all. I don't get offended at people asking questions, I appreciate the responses! I've posted some pretty strong posts here in response to others who were waffling about what to do in similar situations.

 

So much easier to give others advice than to put it in action ourselves

 

#justsucks!! Lol

[Vivir]

Let's see, Finding My Way... Let's see here.

 

You're curious about what he might say at your Friday meeting. I admit, I would be, too, and I would likely go if I were in your shoes.

 

It seems to me that you are fully aware that he is highly likely not going to say anything whatsoever that is new or different than what he has been saying for the length of your involvement with him.

 

If you weren't fully aware of this, I would caution you to expect it.

 

After I had implemented NC, it took the xMM that was in my life several months to come to terms with it. He would force contact every other month or so to see where my head was at. A few months ago, he decided he wasn't going to "try" anymore. It was hard to hear him say that, but I told him that had been the point of breaking up and going NC in the first place... he seemed not to "get it" until he wanted to get it... still, it was hard for me to hear him say he was DONE even though I had been done for quite a while by that time...

He tried a few strategies to get me to see him, and I was tempted, but I declined. He was not happy about that.

 

My point: no matter what his strategy with me had been, he ultimately said the same thing - nothing different. By the time he tried to say he was divorced, I didn't believe a word coming out of his mouth.

 

I have learned that we MUST ask open ended questions. By doing this, I learned that even though they were "divorced" they were still living together. One of our most defining moments came behind me asking an open ended question: he admitted that he wouldn't be "friends" without sex being part of the equation.

 

At the very beginning of the affair, divorce had been an option. He took it away and didn't tell me about it. I had to rip it from his mouth. He held all of his cards close to the vest. And let me draw my own conclusions.

 

If your MM doesn't say anything different, and you want - or even need - to be finished with this affair mess, gather up all of your strength and fold,

just say your Goodbye and walk away from the situation. Perhaps you can practice in the mirror.

 

So long as you stay, nothing will change for the better (for you). In fact, you will be further teaching him what new low thing you are willing to put up with... and what he can get away with as far as you're concerned.

[FMW]

Thanks Vivir. I appreciate you sharing your experience. I honestly kind of dread meeting him tomorrow, it's been nice to feel lighter without him. Hopefully that's a good sign that I'm close to being done with him for good. I just feel compelled to go to avoid wondering "what if".

[CatMinx]

I know this feeling well. I caved every time we met up for ‘closure’ despite not even wanting to be back with exMM. It feels worse and worse every time. I always ended up wishing I had stayed away. I hope you are stronger than I was.

[Crazelnut]

Thanks Vivir. I appreciate you sharing your experience. I honestly kind of dread meeting him tomorrow, it's been nice to feel lighter without him. Hopefully that's a good sign that I'm close to being done with him for good. I just feel compelled to go to avoid wondering "what if".

 

Then do not go!

[S2B]

Don't go!

 

Then suddenly you have your power back!

 

And that would be a great switch in this scenario.

 

 

Just send a text saying you can't make it! Do NOT give any explanation even if he asks!

[FMW]

I kept the lunch meeting. We caught up on what had been going on in each others' lives. He wanted to know if I was happy with my life, I said something like you mean am I totally heartbroken over you, and smiled to lighten the statement. He said he regretted getting in as deep as we did when he knew he wasn't sure what he wanted with his marriage (during their 2 1/2 year separation) and was sorry for the hurt he caused me. I told him I was a big girl and knew the situation. He admitted to letting himself think about a possible future with me too much and he shouldn't have shared those thoughts with me when he wasn't sure what was going to happen.

 

She recently found his burner phone, although I don't think there was anything on the phone because he deletes everything immediately. In the ensuing argument he threw the phone down on the floor and stomped on it and destroyed it.

 

She also found texts on his iPhone, an account they share, from a prospective music student by seeing the uploaded information to the Cloud. Obviously something about those texts were inappropriate (I didn't bother to ask because it was clear he wanted to present them as something innocent from a 25 year old girl) and his wife called her number and apparently said some nasty things to the girl.

 

He says his wife "never comes home" (I believe she's only there for short periods of time) but he didn't want to share any more information about that and since it's not my business I didn't ask any more.

 

I told him he had to talk to his wife and they had to figure out what they were going to do because this was unhealthy and stressful for both of them. I told him that the fact he replaced the burner phone with a new one shows that he wants to continue seeing other women or at the very least keeping secrets from his wife and the marriage could not be repaired while he was doing that. They either dedicate themselves to their marriage, agree to an alternate arrangement, or divorce.

 

He's concerned about their property and financial accounts, saying "she wants my money" (I explained after 25+ years of marriage it was THEIR money). I told him to go get a free initial consultation with a divorce attorney to get an idea how things were likely to go. It didn't mean he had to do anything about it, but he would have a better idea in making choices.

 

We told each other we loved each other, we didn't end anything. But while he's dealing with this most recent marriage crisis I am keeping my distance. I told him what I have told him before, I love him and want him to be happy and want what's best for him, whether I'm anywhere in that picture or not. He feels the same for me.

 

I'm not going to worry about NC any further, but I want to say that the 5 weeks I did were very important to helping me heal a little bit and get my head a little straighter. The many reasons it would be best for me NOT to continue seeing him, regardless of what happens with his marriage, are very clear and front and center for me. I know that most likely I will be happier with someone else than with him. I don't feel as bound to him as I used to.

 

So I'm not going back to NC, I'm not walking away from. But I still see this as likely the continuing journey of getting to the end for us. I don't feel permanent NC is the way to do that for me, I need to work through it and see it through to the end. And since i do have at least some interest in someone else (at this point we're just friends) I don't feel as scared as I used to that I would never be open to anyone else without him being completely out of my life.

 

I know the vast majority here on LS will totally disagree with my approach. I don't think one approach is right for everyone. NC was very important for me as a temporary tool to gain a little detachment. It's just not what feels right to me as an ongoing thing. I think NC will just organically happen at some point, it doesn't have to be forced, if the relationship isn't meant to be. That's probably because I feel sure that if I ever tell him I don't want to hear from him again he will honor that. For those whose AP will not honor that request, then NC is obviously the smart choice.

[S2B]

Wow you should have received $300 for that counseling appointment you gave him...and legal advice thrown in for his interest too!

 

Honey, he's not doing anything to change this! Accept that and move forward.

 

He's a cake eater who cheats with multiple women who are willing - why is that enough for you?

 

Why would you think his (lack of values) makes him a good man?

[FMW]

Thanks for your responses S2B, I appreciate you taking the time to read my long entries.

 

Wow you should have received $300 for that counseling appointment you gave him...and legal advice thrown in for his interest too!

 

He tells me I'm his best friend and at times I switch to friend mode and advise him like I would any other friend. Payment for this session was a free lunch

 

Honey, he's not doing anything to change this! Accept that and move forward.

 

He's a cake eater who cheats with multiple women who are willing - why is that enough for you?

 

Our situations have changed in the almost 3 years together and I've made a lot of strides forward and handled many transitions following the end of my 23 year marriage. He on the other hand is basically in the same position he was when we met. I'm no longer willing to settle for how things have been, but don't feel that means I have to cut him out of my life completely, at least at this moment. I may decide differently at a future point.

 

Why would you think his (lack of values) makes him a good man?

 

I certainly don't think he's a bad man. He's a messed up man who does bad things. I'm not a bad woman, but I was weak and hurting and allowed myself to get involved in a situation that was clearly not healthy in order to find some escape and relief. I'm not going to judge him or anyone else for having their own weaknesses. Bad actions do not equal bad people in my book.

 

I may find that I have to adjust my thoughts and actions on this whole matter in the future, but for right now I'm not taking the scorched earth approach.

 

I'm going out this weekend with friends and will see the new man I'm a little interested in now, so I'm not in a holding pattern. I've reached the post-divorce transition point where I'm ready to date. My feelings for xMM aren't holding me back because I'm starting to accept them as part of my past. He's not available for what I need and want so I'm ready and open to see who else is out there. Just taking it day by day.

[Poppy47]

I'm not surprised his wife is hardly ever home. I wouldn't go home to a bloke like him either.

I think you are relieving him of the responsibility for the bad stuff he does by saying he's not a bad person.

 

It is my belief that nothing positive ever happens by drifting along day by day. Allowing the past to linger ultimately allows it the opportunity of becoming the present.

 

Examination of fundamental beliefs and goal setting in line with them is the way I see of moving forward. Seeing a different future, making a new narrative.

 

It IS only my belief. Everybody has their own.

 

Poppy.

[CantTakeMySmile]

It is my belief that nothing positive ever happens by drifting along day by day. Allowing the past to linger ultimately allows it the opportunity of becoming the present.

 

 

 

This sentence is going to be my mantra. Thank you poppy.

[Poppy47]

I have learned the hard way.

 

The most important workshop I ever went to as an eduactor many years ago was all about narrative... You are in charge of changing your narrative i.e. your entire life.

 

Poppy.

X

[FMW]

Thanks for that insight Poppy.

 

I don't feel I'm "drifting", I just am not ready to slam the door on things yet.

 

I've gone through big transitions in the past few years. Anyone who has ended a long marriage will understand on how many levels that alters your life. My father lost his battle to cancer during the time I was going through my divorce which added somewhat to the instability I felt, my world was rocked for a while. And then when xMM received a terminal cancer diagnosis it was just another hit to my equilibrium.

 

I think I've made good progress in navigating all the changes overall, but obviously there have been missteps.

 

When your world is rocked and you lose your footing for a while you discover that what you feel and think one day may not be the same as it will be the next week. That can be true for anyone in any normal situation as well, but I've found it to be magnified in my experience of the last few years.

 

So day by day for me doesn't mean abdicating responsibility or planning, and certainly doesn't mean standing still and just waiting to see what happens. It just means I'll know when I've reached the end of this particular aspect of my life and until then I don't feel the need to erase it.

[FMW]

Well, it's finally over so I thought I'd finish my "story" posted here. I think MM has reached more of a true reconciliation with his BW, for the first time in over 3 years I finally saw her for the first time on Saturday. She came with him to a performance with one of his bands that doesn't play very often. After the show he came and sat with her while the band waiting to be paid and to split the tips from the performance.

 

She seemed very attentive to him, and friendly when she interacted briefly with others. Funny how you have a picture in your mind about what they are like, and both of those things surprised me.

 

I truly do love MM and hope he's happy.

 

For me - my heart is broken, but then again I always knew it would be. I don't regret not being the one to end it, because of his health situation I think I would have always felt like I had abandoned him if it had been me.

 

I actually do feel a little excited about the freedom I have now to move forward.

 

I take responsibility for the pain I'm in, I made the decision all along the way to continue. But the one thing I AM angry with MM about is the way he ended it. He just stopped texting me and stopped responding to me. I only sent a few over the past 3 weeks, but the last one was heartfelt, telling him what I said above - that I really did love him and hoped he would be happy. He wouldn't even respond to that.

 

He said hi and used my name on Saturday when I saw him, so he's not ignoring me that way which I guess would be even worse.

 

We've been seeing each other for over 3 years and in those three years we've had a lot to deal with in our personal lives, he even told me recently not for the first time that he didn't know what he would have done without me during some of his more difficult periods of cancer treatment. I just wish that he would have said something at the end - like telling me they had really reconciled for real and he couldn't see me anymore.

 

But this was the way he chose to do it - ghosting me after more than 3 years. So I'll learn to get over my broken heart and move forward to find a much healthier and happy relationship in the future.

 

The one good thing that came out of this for me is that I know that I am capable of truly being head over heels in love. I'm happy to know that.