What is meant by "gentleman" and "chivalrous" in women's OLD profiles?

[salparadise]

On a first date I could see it bein a turn off if the woman insisted she pay half as if I'm trying to purchase her. But yes, it comes off as a sign of disinterest.

 

I don't see it that way at all. I've had quite a few (ok, a few) who put their card on the little tray with the bill as if it's standard procedure. And if I say, "it's ok I got it," they say, "no, I prefer we split it." These happened to be the most progressive, socially/culturally aware women I've dated. One of them was my former girlfriend that I was with a year and a half. After the first few dates we alternated. I realize that I'm on the left edge of the scale in terms of how I view it, but I find it very attractive when they signal their preference to be seen as full equal and competent this way.

 

From a more practical perspective, on a first date you don't know if there will be a second date, and it's almost like an interview where both people are there for the same reason... an equal opportunity sizing up of a prospective dating partner.

 

For me, as I've said before, it's not so much about the bucks (and I do try to keep the costs down on a first date) as her symbolically saying, I'm fully equal, competent and willing to meet you half way, not only tonight but throughout should we continue into a relationship.

 

As for my former girlfriend, she was assertive in this way throughout and reciprocated/initiated, but was quite submissive sexually and feminine in demeanor. So, it doesn't have be standoffish or a sign of disinterest at all. She texted after the date and to say she hoped we would see each other again. She was/is enlightened and evolved in a way that I really appreciate. I wish it was the cultural norm, but unfortunately it seems to be the exception.

[OatsAndHall]

"gentleman": This can range from them expecting you to pay for every date all the way to just being polite (opening doors, etc..).

 

"chivalrous": Who knows... I stayed away from women who had that on their profile page as either a) I don't think they understood what the word implies or b) they overly romanticized the dating scene in some way.

 

But, I don't play much into the "male role" when dating. I treat the woman with respect, I'm polite (I'll open doors, etc..), and I have no issue paying for the first date. But, I am certainly not a White In Shining Armor and I expect reciprocation on dates.

[SevenCity]

I too was amazed and realized I had to make much much better choices in the men I was accepting dates with.

 

And I did and it did get better.

 

Some men (and women) have accused me of being too picky or a bit of snob when what I really was/am is being discerning about the dates I choose to spend my time with anymore. It's too easy to get caught up in all the attention and watch your calendar fill up with dates every night of the week until you realize what a bloody time waster it actually is not to mention exhausting.

 

As for your comment about men moving in and leaching off their girlfriend only to be labelled a con man, compared to women doing the same, all I have to say is what you allow is what will continue. If you feel your girlfriend is mooching off of you unnecessarily and taking advantage of you in whatever ways feels unfair then do something about it other than just complaining.

 

Again, and you won't like to hear this, but it all goes back to the basics which is COMMUNICATION! The sooner you learn to talk and ask questions, even hard questions, the less likely you will end up in these precarious and undesirable situations

 

For the record, I would never be in a situation with a move in leech. I've lived with exactly two women in my years, one of which I had married, the other was my LTR ex of 7 years.

 

Communication is key in a relationship but you have to pace yourself. More than that, seeing how a woman acts tells you everything you need to know.

[SevenCity]

I don't see it that way at all. I've had quite a few (ok, a few) who put their card on the little tray with the bill as if it's standard procedure. And if I say, "it's ok I got it," they say, "no, I prefer we split it." These happened to be the most progressive, socially/culturally aware women I've dated. One of them was my former girlfriend that I was with a year and a half. After the first few dates we alternated. I realize that I'm on the left edge of the scale in terms of how I view it, but I find it very attractive when they signal their preference to be seen as full equal and competent this way.

 

From a more practical perspective, on a first date you don't know if there will be a second date, and it's almost like an interview where both people are there for the same reason... an equal opportunity sizing up of a prospective dating partner.

 

For me, as I've said before, it's not so much about the bucks (and I do try to keep the costs down on a first date) as her symbolically saying, I'm fully equal, competent and willing to meet you half way, not only tonight but throughout should we continue into a relationship.

 

As for my former girlfriend, she was assertive in this way throughout and reciprocated/initiated, but was quite submissive sexually and feminine in demeanor. So, it doesn't have be standoffish or a sign of disinterest at all. She texted after the date and to say she hoped we would see each other again. She was/is enlightened and evolved in a way that I really appreciate. I wish it was the cultural norm, but unfortunately it seems to be the exception.

 

Valid points. I'm not really into feminists myself but it's interesting that she ended up being submissive in bed because that is a huge plus for me. I may have to rethink that!

 

Side note: how are you doing with all that? I get angry anytime I think about how she ended things with you. Grade A crappy

[Cookiesandough]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I guess the consensus from the men is the fake wallet reach is the most attractive thing.

[Shining One]

I guess the consensus from the men is the fake wallet reach is the most attractive thing.

No one I know finds the fake wallet reach attractive. It's a sign of a disingenuous person. How can that possibly be attractive?

 

 

Speaking for myself, here's what I find attractive at the end of a first date:

1. She offers to contribute.
   
2. I decline and say it's on me.
   
3. She accepts and says the next one is on her.
   

This shows that she is interested in a second date and she isn't a leech.

[PegNosePete]

No one I know finds the fake wallet reach attractive. It's a sign of a disingenuous person. How can that possibly be attractive?

 

 

Speaking for myself, here's what I find attractive at the end of a first date:

1. She offers to contribute.
   
2. I decline and say it's on me.
   
3. She accepts and says the next one is on her.
   

This shows that she is interested in a second date and she isn't a leech.

But how do you know that isn't a fake wallet reach?

[Cookiesandough]

True. Most women never get called on their bluff.

[salparadise]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I guess the consensus from the men is the fake wallet reach is the most attractive thing.

 

No no, please don't do the fake, slow reach... be sincere and confident. Just say, "thank you, but I prefer that we split" if he tries to wave you off. If he seems not to understand you could add something like, "there's no reason it should always be incumbent upon you."

 

But how do you know that isn't a fake wallet reach?

 

When they're faking it they move extremely slow and look at you with a raised eyebrow as if they expect you to wave them off... and the best reaction is, don't wave them off, even though there may be an awkward moment. It's a good opportunity to learn something, and a step forward in vanquishing an old Victorian archetype.

[HarmonyDriven]

No one I know finds the fake wallet reach attractive. It's a sign of a disingenuous person. How can that possibly be attractive?

 

 

Speaking for myself, here's what I find attractive at the end of a first date:

1. She offers to contribute.
   
2. I decline and say it's on me.
   
3. She accepts and says the next one is on her.
   

This shows that she is interested in a second date and she isn't a leech.

 

 

3. What if she accepts and says "thank you." Is that sufficient? You would not want her to say the next one is on her if she has no intention of a 2nd date, right? Heck, you might not want a 2nd date?

 

Not that I have ever done this, but I wonder if people on first dates tell the waitress/server to issue separate checks?

 

Hmmm, anyone do this?

[PegNosePete]

You would not want her to say the next one is on her if she has no intention of a 2nd date, right?

If she doesn't want a second date then the polite thing to do is to pay half, or at least make a genuine offer.

 

I wonder if people on first dates tell the waitress/server to issue separate checks?

Separate checks? No way. If you want to split, just pay half each. Counting up exactly what each person had is way too penny pinching. But then on a first date you probably only had a couple of drinks anyway.

[Cookiesandough]

3. What if she accepts and says "thank you." Is that sufficient? You would not want her to say the next one is on her if she has no intention of a 2nd date, right? Heck, you might not want a 2nd date?

 

Not that I have ever done this, but I wonder if people on first dates tell the waitress/server to issue separate checks?

 

Hmmm, anyone do this?

 

I am ashamed to say I've done this before. I used to be (no I swear, its in the past ) neurotic about this. I would whisper it to the waitress when I went to the restroom.Or I would tell the waitress separate checks before the guy even ordered. I am not proud. I just hate feeling like someone owes me something for my company, especially when I might not even want to see him again. It's scary to me.

[CptInsano]

I am ashamed to say I've done this before. I used to be (no I swear, its in the past ) neurotic about this. I would whisper it to the waitress when I went to the restroom.Or I would tell the waitress separate checks before the guy even ordered. I am not proud. I just hate feeling like someone owes me something for my company, especially when I might not even want to see him again. It's scary to me.

 

Yeah, I had a woman get pretty much angry at me because I paid while she was in the restroom. We were just about to leave, and it seemed like the expedient thing to do. I mean, she was vegan, so that salad and tea she had didn't cost anything compared to my lunch, but it really seemed to be a matter of principle with her.