What is meant by "gentleman" and "chivalrous" in women's OLD profiles?

[Cookiesandough]

A lot of women these days actually offer to split the first date check.

 

The 'standard' I would say is ... man reaches ... woman reaches too ... man says "I got it." ... and woman nods.

 

Yep. I always ask to split 1st date because that's the way I firmly believe it should be. But men I think a lot men see it as an insult or something

Edited August 23, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[SevenCity]

A lot of women these days actually offer to split the first date check.

 

The 'standard' I would say is ... man reaches ... woman reaches too ... man says "I got it." ... and woman nods.

 

I am not a fan of Dutch at all. That's not what I'm suggesting.

 

Rather, that the thought enters a woman's mind of "Hey this guy has taken me out 4 times. I WANT to buy him dinner".

 

I had one girl who forcibly removed the check from my hand so she could pay. It was a thoughtful gesture.

 

What's interesting, I've spoken to women who say they will only pay if they don't like the guy at all. I think it has to do with eliminating any expectations on behalf of the guy.

 

I agree with JJS - make a genuine effort on a first date. My ex and my ex wife both offered to pay for first dates. The last girl I dated did as well and I thought she was cut from the same cloth. I was very wrong!

[SevenCity]

Yep. I always ask to split 1st date because that's the way I firmly believe it should be. But men I think a lot men see it as an insult or something

 

I don't know any guy who would be insulted at an offer?

[HarmonyDriven]

 

I'll even put the woman behind me in a crowded place so I can push through for her. I have zero issue with doing that type of stuff and rather enjoy it.

 

 

Yes! Yes! I have been on dates with men who have done this.....Love it!

 

====

 

I have paid my fair share in OLD, which is fine for me. In fact, if I am not "feeling it" I sometimes happily grab the check and pay for drinks.

 

I do remember OLDate back in September 2011, we went to a restaurant and I ordered a margarita and chips/salsa. Date ordered water. The server brings the chips/salsa and places the basket in the middle of both of us. The date then inquires, "can I have some?"

 

WTF?? Yeah, I ordered the chips/salsa for myself???? Of course, I picked up the check....water costs nothing....

[No_Go]

I never had this experience. If anything, I had guys speculating (because when I take out my card, it is for real and I'm paying the whole bill - not Dutch).

 

I always thought going Dutch is for associates - even with platonic close friends we alternate but one picks the whole tab each time.

 

Yep. I always ask to split 1st date because that's the way I firmly believe it should be. But men I think a lot men see it as an insult or something

[No_Go]

Means:

 

1) No sex early on. No one night stands, get to know her first.

 

2) Treat her in old-fashioned way (pull chairs, open doors, pay bills etc).

 

But I think most times means 1), not 2).

 

I've found quite a few female profiles stating they are looking for a "gentleman" or someone who is "chivalrous".

 

At quick glance this may seem like they want a guy to open doors for them and not be a jerk, but upon further reflection it appears to be code for "sugar daddy / meal ticket".

 

I drew this conclusion after dating a couple girls who used the phrase "I'm not a gentleman" or "I thought you were chivalrous" when I voiced my issues with the lack of them ever paying for anything. For reference, I always opened doors for them

 

Am I correct in assuming this is what women mean when they use those words in an online profile?

[SevenCity]

I'm not sure I needed a detailed explanation of what it means to hold a door open for someone.

 

I've done both of those versions, but when I think of holding a door open for someone I think of standing aside and letting them walk through first. I do it for men and women, young and old, without really thinking about it. It's a habit.

 

One of the reasons I think some men no longer do it is because of the reactions they get from feminists. Rude, unappreciative, and often outright mean about accepting a common courtesy. Why put up with all of that negative attitude when you're simply trying to do something nice for someone?

 

I've gotten rolled eyes, snorts of disgust, and sometimes refusal to walk through the door. But, I won't give up my "home training" as we call it. Be polite to folks anyway.

 

 

Funny you mention that. When I was in college I held open a door for a girl in my class. She had this look of evil towards me as she walked through.

 

When we got inside I asked what that was all about? She says "I can open my own doors, thank you". Wow.

 

Fast forward a couple weeks and we fooled around in one of the library study rooms and she ended up giving me a hand job. WTF?

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

I agree with JJS - make a genuine effort on a first date. My ex and my ex wife both offered to pay for first dates. The last girl I dated did as well and I thought she was cut from the same cloth. I was very wrong!

 

I also think a lot of how much you buy into chivalry is how much you buy into gender roles.

 

I don't care if my girlfriend wears lingerie.

 

I don't expect her to cook or clean or spend a disproportionate time taking care of the kids.

 

I don't care if she makes more $ than me (although if she makes a LOT more it's not good, another topic).

 

So, I think a good question is ... if men and women are equal and men give women chivalry, what do women give men? Submissive love perhaps?

[SevenCity]

Means:

 

1) No sex early on. No one night stands, get to know her first.

 

2) Treat her in old-fashioned way (pull chairs, open doors, pay bills etc).

 

But I think most times means 1), not 2).

 

Is that what YOU would mean or do you know women who have written it and the intent behind it?

 

And women online have no issues stating "No hookups!" almost as a tag line to every profile (which is so silly as it deters no one).

[Cookiesandough]

Oh okay. Likewise, if you've been on 4 dates with a woman and she hasn't picked up the tab once, I suppose you two aren't compatible. I'd say women that are like what you're looking for would offer by 3 if you paid last 2 times, but I'm no expert.

 

And yes, some men see it as slight or sign of disinterest if you insist to go Dutch because it gives a platonic vibe, I guess.. But that's how I want it to be, particular with online dating, where I'm rarely sure if I want to see him again.

[No_Go]

Other women that I know.

 

I'd personally never put a line like this - it is distasteful IMO, so as 'no hookups'. There are much more elegant ways to get the same result.

 

Is that what YOU would mean or do you know women who have written it and the intent behind it?

 

And women online have no issues stating "No hookups!" almost as a tag line to every profile (which is so silly as it deters no one).

[SevenCity]

I also think a lot of how much you buy into chivalry is how much you buy into gender roles.

 

I don't care if my girlfriend wears lingerie.

 

I don't expect her to cook or clean or spend a disproportionate time taking care of the kids.

 

I don't care if she makes more $ than me (although if she makes a LOT more it's not good, another topic).

 

So, I think a good question is ... if men and women are equal and men give women chivalry, what do women give men? Submissive love perhaps?

 

I believe in gender roles to a degree (I always drive and won't let a woman drive me around - even my sisters). I'll defend us, lift heavy stuff, take out the garbage, kill bugs, etc.

 

Good question though as I've also had girls use the "old fashioned" line yet they couldn't even boil pasta.

[SevenCity]

Other women that I know.

 

I'd personally never put a line like this - it is distasteful IMO, so as 'no hookups'. There are much more elegant ways to get the same result.

 

That is useful info. So I guess I may take a chance next time I see it.

 

Hopefully I don't end up in #2!

[SevenCity]

Oh okay. Likewise, if you've been on 4 dates with a woman and she hasn't picked up the tab once, I suppose you two aren't compatible. I'd say women that are like what you're looking for would offer by 3 if you paid last 2 times, but I'm no expert.

 

And yes, some men see it as slight or sign of disinterest if you insist to go Dutch because it gives a platonic vibe, I guess.. But that's how I want it to be, particular with online dating, where I'm rarely sure if I want to see him again.

 

On a first date I could see it bein a turn off if the woman insisted she pay half as if I'm trying to purchase her. But yes, it comes off as a sign of disinterest.

[No_Go]

It is easy to test for 2) (if you mean the paying part):

if in 3 to 4 dates she do not reciprocate, she's not going to reciprocate at all. You can also discuss gender values on date 1 or 2, and it is not weird if you present it neutrally (not you and her, but men and women in general).

 

That is useful info. So I guess I may take a chance next time I see it.

 

Hopefully I don't end up in #2!

[GemmaUK]

I'm not sure I needed a detailed explanation of what it means to hold a door open for someone.

Oh...you..OK, I'll drop the womansplaining! Lol!

 

I've done both of those versions, but when I think of holding a door open for someone I think of standing aside and letting them walk through first. I do it for men and women, young and old, without really thinking about it. It's a habit.

 

One of the reasons I think some men no longer do it is because of the reactions they get from feminists. Rude, unappreciative, and often outright mean about accepting a common courtesy. Why put up with all of that negative attitude when you're simply trying to do something nice for someone?

 

I've gotten rolled eyes, snorts of disgust, and sometimes refusal to walk through the door. But, I won't give up my "home training" as we call it. Be polite to folks anyway.

 

I really hope that women like that are in the minority, maybe they should wear a sign saying 'let the door slam in my face please' instead of thinking everyone is a mind reader!

 

Don't give up doing what you do - it's nice, and it's manners and most of us (I hope) appreciate it.

[PegNosePete]

I believe that was meant to be what is called "tongue in cheek."

Of course, but I've seen many profiles with "wish lists" just as long, and just as ridiculous!

[kendahke]

That's great for them. Though I think it's a far cry to change sexual orientation, no?

 

So where does this "gentlemanly" behavior end? You move her in and feed her Bon Bons all day while she doesn't do anything but take?

 

Now you're being facetious. This isn't even worth answering other than to say "then be alone and don't date".

[Michelle ma Belle]

It's funny that we're on here seemingly berating some women and their alleged 'rules' around dating and paying and how it somehow equates to chivalry and being a gentleman.

 

Once again, this goes both ways too. Although I'm not sure men are as inclined to list such a thing in their profiles the way some women would but it doesn't negate the fact that some men are looking for a free ride too and disguising it under the label of feminism.

 

I can't even begin to list the number of first and second dates I've been on with men who asked me out and where I ended up having to pay the check at the end of the night! Never mind basic manners like opening doors or allowing me to order first.

 

That's not to say I have any problems with picking up the tab but I think as far as first dates go, whoever initiates the date should at least follow through and pay the bill. After that, if more dates are on the horizon, I think it's only fair that women take on some of the financial burden and take turns unless the man makes it clear he prefers to be the one to take care of things.

 

After one too many of those first (and second dates), I decided I would no longer invest time or money on first dates apart from a cup of coffee.

 

Nor would I would ever add such a disclaimer as "Gentlemen need only reply" in my dating profile.

[cp30]

I'm seeing a guy who I had to bully into letting me buy a few rounds of drinks on our second date after he paid for the first date and bought the first round of drinks and dinner.

 

I then met him out at a party for some mutual friends, and he told me to put my drinks on his tab, and I thanked him but politely declined.

 

There are some ladies out there who don't take advantage of men and expect them to spend, spend, spend. Don't lose hope, SevenCity!

[Echo74]

It's funny that we're on here seemingly berating some women and their alleged 'rules' around dating and paying and how it somehow equates to chivalry and being a gentleman.

 

Once again, this goes both ways too. Although I'm not sure men are as inclined to list such a thing in their profiles the way some women would but it doesn't negate the fact that some men are looking for a free ride too and disguising it under the label of feminism.

 

I can't even begin to list the number of first and second dates I've been on with men who asked me out and where I ended up having to pay the check at the end of the night! Never mind basic manners like opening doors or allowing me to order first.

 

That's not to say I have any problems with picking up the tab but I think as far as first dates go, whoever initiates the date should at least follow through and pay the bill. After that, if more dates are on the horizon, I think it's only fair that women take on some of the financial burden and take turns unless the man makes it clear he prefers to be the one to take care of things.

 

After one too many of those first (and second dates), I decided I would no longer invest time or money on first dates apart from a cup of coffee.

 

Nor would I would ever add such a disclaimer as "Gentlemen need only reply" in my dating profile.

 

I agree with this. When I began dating my ex, I invited him on our second date and paid for it. Knowing he was sort of old fashion, I had my cc ready beforehand so I could quickly slip it to the server. He was pretty uncomfortable with that though and never let me pay for a date the following 25 years.

[SevenCity]

Now you're being facetious. This isn't even worth answering other than to say "then be alone and don't date".

 

You stated I should date men and I'm being facetious????

 

Or not date at all if I don't intend to pay for everything ever?

 

All I am asking is if the words were code for "you'll always pay". I never said a thing about splitting bills or having her pay for a first date.

[SevenCity]

I'm seeing a guy who I had to bully into letting me buy a few rounds of drinks on our second date after he paid for the first date and bought the first round of drinks and dinner.

 

I then met him out at a party for some mutual friends, and he told me to put my drinks on his tab, and I thanked him but politely declined.

 

There are some ladies out there who don't take advantage of men and expect them to spend, spend, spend. Don't lose hope, SevenCity!

 

Good to know women like you still exist. I won't loose hope!!!

[SevenCity]

It's funny that we're on here seemingly berating some women and their alleged 'rules' around dating and paying and how it somehow equates to chivalry and being a gentleman.

 

Once again, this goes both ways too. Although I'm not sure men are as inclined to list such a thing in their profiles the way some women would but it doesn't negate the fact that some men are looking for a free ride too and disguising it under the label of feminism.

 

I can't even begin to list the number of first and second dates I've been on with men who asked me out and where I ended up having to pay the check at the end of the night! Never mind basic manners like opening doors or allowing me to order first.

 

That's not to say I have any problems with picking up the tab but I think as far as first dates go, whoever initiates the date should at least follow through and pay the bill. After that, if more dates are on the horizon, I think it's only fair that women take on some of the financial burden and take turns unless the man makes it clear he prefers to be the one to take care of things.

 

After one too many of those first (and second dates), I decided I would no longer invest time or money on first dates apart from a cup of coffee.

 

Nor would I would ever add such a disclaimer as "Gentlemen need only reply" in my dating profile.

 

That's the absurdity of the situation. When a guy acts like this, EVERYONE says he's a dbag. I've watched stories where guys move in with women and don't work and spend their money. They ban together and go to the police calling him a con man. When a woman does it no one bats an eye.

 

I can't believe you had more than one guy bail on a date bill. Even when the woman was misrepresented I still pick up the tab on a first date. I can't fathom sticking a woman with the bill.

 

You also make a valid point about who asked. I would still pay even if I was asked on a first date.

[Michelle ma Belle]

That's the absurdity of the situation. When a guy acts like this, EVERYONE says he's a dbag. I've watched stories where guys move in with women and don't work and spend their money. They ban together and go to the police calling him a con man. When a woman does it no one bats an eye.

 

I can't believe you had more than one guy bail on a date bill. Even when the woman was misrepresented I still pick up the tab on a first date. I can't fathom sticking a woman with the bill.

 

You also make a valid point about who asked. I would still pay even if I was asked on a first date.

 

I too was amazed and realized I had to make much much better choices in the men I was accepting dates with.

 

And I did and it did get better.

 

Some men (and women) have accused me of being too picky or a bit of snob when what I really was/am is being discerning about the dates I choose to spend my time with anymore. It's too easy to get caught up in all the attention and watch your calendar fill up with dates every night of the week until you realize what a bloody time waster it actually is not to mention exhausting.

 

As for your comment about men moving in and leaching off their girlfriend only to be labelled a con man, compared to women doing the same, all I have to say is what you allow is what will continue. If you feel your girlfriend is mooching off of you unnecessarily and taking advantage of you in whatever ways feels unfair then do something about it other than just complaining.

 

Again, and you won't like to hear this, but it all goes back to the basics which is COMMUNICATION! The sooner you learn to talk and ask questions, even hard questions, the less likely you will end up in these precarious and undesirable situations