She doesn't want exclusivity?

[Mkn1010]

That may be true. I don't think having a confrontational discussion is best. Might be a little harsh and heavy. Could scare her away, especially since we are not exclusive. It's not like she's hiding anything from me - that I know of. She's been pretty forthcoming and open.

 

And I have been silent for a few days. Because I haven't messaged her, nor has she messaged me.. so for all she knows, I could be on dates. I still have my profile up on OkStupid.

 

I can recognize that she's not investing as much as I am. I guess women just like men who are emotionally unavailable in the beginning and then want them to open up later..

 

 

Sadly, some women do feel more attracted to emotionally unavailable men (me included :/), even though I DON'T want to be this way. It comes down to a past relationship void that has been left within, a big hole, whether from a romantic partner or from a distant parent etc. The woman doesn't even realize why she's drawn to unavailable men, but there's a powerful 'spark' there (albeit an unhealthy one). That 'spark' that we think is chemistry is actually something within us subconsciously that recognizes something familiar within that other person that we think we help us to relive our most dysfunctional relationship experiences. And if only we get it right this time (make an emotionally distant man love us), then we can prove to ourselves finally that we are WORTHY.

 

 

Yes, it's messed up. And women who have been in past abusive relationships or experience infidelity or an emotionally void father etc do this time and time again (or so my therapist tells me), and sadly all three of these examples apply to me. So I know this pattern well. But I'm trying actively to change it, and that's what it takes: a HUGE amount of effort and self-awareness to reject the emotionally distant types that everything within yourself is telling you that you're drawn to, and focus your time on the ones that can truly give you want you deeply desire.

 

 

I'm not saying this is definitely going on with her because I don't know her, I'm just going off your comment about women liking emotionally unavailable men so I that I can explain that dynamic for you. And also, you mentioned that she was in an abusive relationship. So I'd question what self work she's done thereafter to prevent the above patterns in her life. It's taken me 2.5 years to get to where I am now personally and I'm a work in progress.

 

 

What therapy/self-work did she do post the abusive relationship?

[Crosswords]

Sadly, some women do feel more attracted to emotionally unavailable men (me included :/), even though I DON'T want to be this way. It comes down to a past relationship void that has been left within, a big hole, whether from a romantic partner or from a distant parent etc. The woman doesn't even realize why she's drawn to unavailable men, but there's a powerful 'spark' there (albeit an unhealthy one). That 'spark' that we think is chemistry is actually something within us subconsciously that recognizes something familiar within that other person that we think we help us to relive our most dysfunctional relationship experiences. And if only we get it right this time (make an emotionally distant man love us), then we can prove to ourselves finally that we are WORTHY.

 

 

Yes, it's messed up. And women who have been in past abusive relationships or experience infidelity or an emotionally void father etc do this time and time again (or so my therapist tells me), and sadly all three of these examples apply to me. So I know this pattern well. But I'm trying actively to change it, and that's what it takes: a HUGE amount of effort and self-awareness to reject the emotionally distant types that everything within yourself is telling you that you're drawn to, and focus your time on the ones that can truly give you want you deeply desire.

 

 

I'm not saying this is definitely going on with her because I don't know her, I'm just going off your comment about women liking emotionally unavailable men so I that I can explain that dynamic for you. And also, you mentioned that she was in an abusive relationship. So I'd question what self work she's done thereafter to prevent the above patterns in her life. It's taken me 2.5 years to get to where I am now personally and I'm a work in progress.

 

 

What therapy/self-work did she do post the abusive relationship?

 

I was actually just reading an article on this. It is very interesting. Such a shame though. Because the same pattern is on repeat and the same thing happens time and time again!

 

I don't know what she did to heal post break up.. was a pretty heavy conversation, so I didn't ask too many questions. As you can imagine. I more-so listened.

 

 

And she did respond finally.. she messaged me

 

Her:"Hi... haven't heard a word from ya for a while... everything ok?"

Me: "Hey Possum! Ya, everything is great. How are you?"

Her: "Ya things are ok with me... still figuring my **** out lol"

Me: "It's a process; just keep working towards what you want, and you'll get there"

Her: "Yep"

Her: "Thanks"

Me: "I feel like you have a lot on your mind.. You can call me if you'd like to talk? I like hearing your voice"

 

And last message was about 12 minutes ago. Most messages are spaced roughly 20-30 minutes apart. And I responded to her first message an hour and a half later because I was working out.

[Crosswords]

Okay.. so she never responded or called in response to my "I feel like you have a lot on your mind.. You can call me if you'd like to talk? I like hearing your voice" message. So I just sent a "ok, I'm headed to bed. Good night" text.

 

I'm officially mind ****ed now. It seems like she is afraid to open up emotionally, would be my guess. Otherwise why would she send the text she did today? She clearly cares about what we have, but maybe only cares when I dont?

[Mkn1010]

I have to say that she sounds all over the shop.

 

 

The answer you should be looking for is not why she is behaving a little inconsistently, but if this is good enough for you?

 

 

My guess (which is totally based objectively on your posts here) is that she reached out because she is insecure and wanted to know that you're still on the hook but she had no FOLLOW THROUGH. That's the key part.

 

 

As to why, who cares!

[marksaysay]

The answer you should be looking for is not why she is behaving a little inconsistently, but if this is good enough for you?

 

Exactly! Is this the type of behavior you would exhibit towards someone you were totally into?

 

I'm telling you, man, that I've been exactly where you are. You feel strongly that she's into you but you get conflicting signals. She says one thing but the actions show something totally different and it leaves you confused.

 

Let me tell you, if I wanted to be with someone, there is no way they'd be confused about my intentions.

[salparadise]

Exactly! Is this the type of behavior you would exhibit towards someone you were totally into?

 

I'm telling you, man, that I've been exactly where you are. You feel strongly that she's into you but you get conflicting signals. She says one thing but the actions show something totally different and it leaves you confused.

 

Let me tell you, if I wanted to be with someone, there is no way they'd be confused about my intentions.

 

I agree. She may be saying the words you want to hear but her behavior is diametrically opposite. Red flag with foghorns blaring.

 

Instead of believing the words and asking why this behavior, reverse it and say, ok, I'll believe the behavior and ask why is she saying those things. The answer is, for the effect. It helps her fill the void within, which is the crux of this whole mess, to know that she has secured your attachment. It's about her, not you.

 

Pay attention to what Mkn1010 said: "It comes down to a past relationship void that has been left within, a big hole, whether from a romantic partner or from a distant parent etc." Read the entire post, then read it a few more times. The parts that Mkn1010's therapist got exactly right are the void/worthiness issue and the emotionally distant parent... but almost certainly the mother. This is classic cluster B etiology.

 

In that last text exchange, the mistake you made was the final text where you said, "you can call me if you'd like to talk? I like hearing your voice." That's what she was looking for... Yup, he's still on the hook. Then she went silent. You have to reverse- you have to trigger her anxiety by cutting it off without giving her that affirmation. That's really all she wants from you... to know you're on the string.

 

You have to accept the this is who she is. If you were to manage to get her to commit the relationship would still have the push-pull, distancing and all of that crap. She's not aware of much of it, it's just who she is, it's all she's capable of.

 

You need to set the feelings aside and use your cognitive mind to protect your emotions. Recognize that this woman doesn't have the capacity for a warm, loving, reciprocal relationship. It's always going to be about filing the void, which of course isn't possible. Ignore the words and believe the behavior.

 

I'm sorry, I know what it's like to be in your position.

Edited April 6, 2017 by salparadise

[Crosswords]

Well this is all very heartbreaking. And none of it makes sense.

 

She is all over the place in terms of signals. Hot and cold. I'm always trying to figure things out.

I know she's stated a few times she is in a weird phase. So maybe that's also indicative of what's been going on. But there are so many valid points in the previous posts it's hard to brush away.

 

I suppose I will start dating other people, although still keep her around. Just more emotionally withdrawn and a bit more care-free.

 

One thing that my friend suggested was maybe she is still living with her ex. They had dated for 4 months and she brought it to a close saying it just felt like friendship. She says to me she is just couch surfing with a friend. However! Anytime there is an overnight plan suggested she always says it's too soon for that. The night we had sex I drove her home, a couple weekends ago when I went away tommy friends for the weekend I asked her and she said it was too soon. She has never invited me up to her place she's staying. She often comes down late when I arrive. I've never met her 'roommate'. And calling her can be difficult at times I know she would be at home.

So.. her 'roommate' has told her she has to be out by April 25th. And then she is going to live somewhere else. Do note that she sent me a link for the 1 bedroom apartment saying we should split it..

 

This would maybe explain why she wants to hold off on the exclusivity? Because she can't even plausibly offer it at the moment.

The agreement she has with her current roommate is strange too. Shes lived there for the past 4 months. Rent free. She says she sleeps on the couch. But she does the dishes, makes his food, cleans the house, everything that is a chore.

 

Perhaps it was a simple couch surfing agreement that turned in to a relationship and then it all fell apart. And now here we are.

 

I understand every perspective you have all given me and can agree with most. But when she touches me, the way she looks at me, the sex, the words. Everything feels real. But I can acknowledge that there is SOMETHING fishy going on.

 

Thoughts?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Crosswords

[marksaysay]

 

I understand every perspective you have all given me and can agree with most. But when she touches me, the way she looks at me, the sex, the words. Everything feels real. But I can acknowledge that there is SOMETHING fishy going on.

 

Thoughts?

 

The bold words tells you everything you need to know.

 

I kept telling myself the same thing. In my situation, we even had sex on our last date. She texted me a long list of things she loved about me the next day. I responded with something similar. She hasn't responded since and that was 3 weeks ago. If I were you, I'd definitely start seeing other people.

[xUnknown]

Cut it off. Tell her that you're getting conflicting signals and feelings from her and you are going to do mind games or stress about it.

 

You'll feel better about her when you walk away. Who knows, maybe she'll realize what she lost when you do...

[Life lessons]

I guess you could also look at it this way....she's been rent free for a while now---maybe she can't afford an apartment, on her income!? If that's the case, maybe that's why she sent you a link for an apartment. Although I admit, I still don't understand the 1-bedroom.

 

Your situation is definitely full of mixed signals!

 

I just don't see that she's that into you. It's good that she reached out but it doesn't seem like the conversation lasted too long and then she left you hanging. She's definitely seeing your high interest level still, considering your observation of her and thenletting her know you're there if she needs to talk. I probably wouldn't have said that to her but that's just me. I'm thinking she still sees that you're hanging onto her, by the last sentence you sent her. IMO, it was kind of rude of her not to respond after that....she could've at least said something, to let you know she's all right or whatnot.

[Usename12]

I understand every perspective you have all given me and can agree with most. But when she touches me, the way she looks at me, the sex, the words. Everything feels real. But I can acknowledge that there is SOMETHING fishy going on.

 

Thoughts?

Crosswords, you should realize that things for a person can sometimes feel very real when they are in the moment with you and change when you're not around. They re-examine themselves and wonder what they are getting into. She can think without you present. We all do this when we are figuring things out with another person. So don't put all your weight on your interactions with her. Understand that what she does when you are not around also tells you a lot about her. She seems very capricious (the hot and cold), which is common for women confused and emotional about their situation and it's making you confused.

[stillafool]

I guess if I had only been broken up for 2 months I wouldn't want a relationship right away either. I would want to take my time and meet different men and just enjoy my life as a single woman again. When the man comes along that makes my heart flutter with emotion then I would start thinking about a relationship.

[EZNona]

To rewind a bit more..

 

So after Dropping her off at home and having the exclusivity talk, I drove home. About 20 minutes later she send this...

 

"I really appreciate you as a person and I also want to see you more I really enjoy our time together. I hope you can be patient with me in regards to developing the same pages as you. I want to experience life and adventures and traveling with you. I want to love you, and live with you one day. I want to plan a family with you, and be your old woman."

 

And then a couple hours later she sent the apartment listing link.

 

No wonder why you're confused. She's all over the place! She says she doesn't want to be exclusive yet, but is planning and discussing long-term commitment life goals in the next breath with you.

 

Listen, continue to date her if you want. I always say you should know if you want long-term commitment with someone by no later than the 3-4 month mark. But since she is dating others, I encourage you to do the same unless you are uncomfortable with that.

[anduina]

If I were to take a wild stab at this, it sounds like she's looking for a more traditional arrangement of the guy supporting her, particularly since she needs to move out of her existing traditional arrangement.

[Crosswords]

If I were to take a wild stab at this, it sounds like she's looking for a more traditional arrangement of the guy supporting her, particularly since she needs to move out of her existing traditional arrangement.

 

Yes she definitely is. I think she wants to be a stay at home mom for the most part. Work before and also after the kids are old enough.

 

But also.. things have been sorted out.. she sent me this Yesterday morning and this is what the conversation became:

 

Her:So I have to confess and say when we speak on the phone and you go completely silenced it really bothers me. I feel left hanging... may I ask why you do that?

 

Me: Oh! I never want you to feel left hanging or bothered!

I didn't realize I did that? I suppose anytime I go silent on the phone I'm just listening to what you're saying and thinking about it. Or thinking about you haha!

You can call me on it next time and I can give you an exact reason of why I'm silent at that given time..

Thank you for telling me that this bothered you. Communication is key!

(side truth: my ex always gave me **** and would get mad at me because I would talk too much on the phone and wouldn't be silent. In person too. It sucked. So maybe I learned to not be totally totally open with my thoughts - which I know you mentioned a while back in terms of feeling that I'm holding some of my words back)

 

Her: I want to love you

Her: And I want to embrace you and all you are worth

Her: I know your probs at work atm but I would totally love to call you now I really have taken some time to think about a potential exclusive partnership with you

 

Me:And I want all that to with you too!

I can call you at my next break?

 

Her: Awe okay I'd like that

 

Me: Ok.. Will be around 12:30

 

Her: Sure I'll turn my phone on Loud lol

Her: Can't stop dreaming of you.

 

Me:You are always on my mind, (her name)! And you're incredibly sweet today

 

Her: I normally am this way everyday... I am sorry I haven't been lately

 

Me: It's okay

I really like it like this though - Genuine, clear and open. It's what I want. Is there a particular reason why you haven't been lately?

 

Her: Yes I've been afraid of you a little

 

Her:I'm afraid of love for the most part. It's a long story... anyways I am sorry my communication has been poor. I have been taking days to think about you and the way you've been sweeping me off my feet, and it's everything that I want... not just security. But I haven't found real love in my entire life.. one that didn't come to an end.. and I guess you scared me a little when you asked me to be exclusive to you. It wasn't the mare fact of not dating anyone else moreso that I felt in my heart to hold back due to a habit of fear... and I guess I didn't communicate well enough or rather at the time I felt on the spot and didn't rightfully know how to answer appropriately.

 

Her: Even tho I dream of love in the long run idealizing about love is easier sometimes than facing it

 

Her: I feel like you are a beautiful opportunity of love and abundance that you are reaching out to me and I am pushing you away unintentionally only because I am fearful.... And I don't want to miss this incredible opportunity that's at my fingertips... you are too good to be true... sometimes I feel like. And you are everything wonderful and exciting to all my senses.. I guess I am a creature of habit in the wronged of ways... I want to be brave and let you in.

 

---

 

Then I responded with my own feelings and response to her.

We then talked on the phone during my break and she told me she wanted to be exclusive. And the conversation was very sweet.

We then made plans to hangout this evening. Then she sent me a nude photo haha.. and then we texted more. And then we talked at night again for an hour and a half where she told me she just doesn't understand why i believe in her so much and stuff because she's had a lot of bad men take advantage of her, etc.

 

So yea. That's that; for now.

[lolablue17]

It seems she sensed that she is pushing you away, by herself, without the need to hear it from you. So as I suspected from the beginning, all of this "circle dance" was just her own autosuggestion.

 

As much as it was a little hard time for you, it's better that way, because a decision that made after deep thinking might be more solid and last longer than a hasty decision.

[Crosswords]

Okay, so in my last post I mentioned she agreed to exclusivity

 

We hung out last night and she was Sweet as usual. I picked her up for our date at 5pm, and dropped her off at 10:30. She said she wanted to be home for 11 because she worked this morning. We had went out for some food (she offered to split, but I took the whole bill, telling her she could get it next time), and then we were going to go dancing. It was 10pm and we swung by her place so she could grab dancing shoes. But when we got there she said 'oh, I just realized we only have an hour. Do you think it's even worth it?' So we ended up parting ways at about 10:40 after hanging out in my car for a bit. She initiated the goodbye kiss/hug. And she brought up that we should watch or go to a movie on Sunday.

 

I was cruising on OkCupid when I got home after the date and saw she was last online at 4:24pm. I then fell asleep on my couch until 3:00am and the first thing I checked was OkCupid because I was curious if she had used it again. And low and behold, she did. At 12:30am. I was a little miffed because, well, we could have gone dancing! And at the same token she's online probably talking to other guys..

 

I woke up this morning and checked it again, curious if she checked it before work. She did. She starts work at 9am, but she was last online at 8:51am.

 

I know it sounds crazy that I'm looking at these times. But given the whole scenario of things I suppose I feel like I'm still in self protection mode and keeping my eyes open. I don't want to have to feel like this.

 

I brought up the OkCupid thing in the past and she says she only uses it for meeting new people, guys and girls, platonically. I'm not sure if I believe this though..

I don't know what to do in this situation. We've talked about cheating in the past and she's been cheated on. But she said she could never ever cheat.

But this is different because we just became 'exclusive'.

 

I feel like she's still open to other people, and keeping me around. I just don't get why she wouldn't want to take it down if she said such nice things in the previous post..

 

#So***inConfused

[Mkn1010]

Neither of you are adhering to what it means to be exclusive, in my opinion. There appears to be no trust here in which case it's for the bin.

[Crosswords]

Neither of you are adhering to what it means to be exclusive, in my opinion. There appears to be no trust here in which case it's for the bin.

 

I agree. She just didn't say she wanted to take down profiles. We never talked about that.

[Life lessons]

Hi CW....I see that she decided on exclusiveness. That's good considering that's what you wanted, right!?

 

Are you now doubting her because of the okc profile and logins?

 

It does seem a little off that she wouldn't go dancing with you because of the time and the fact that she had to work the next morning but she logged into the site a few hours after you dropped her off. In order to ease your mind....which I guess all she really has to say is simply "I couldn't sleep"...but see if she proffers another reason. Just non chalantly bring it up that you noticed she had logged in at that time and see what her response is.

 

Or simply overlook this instance and see how future dates pan out. Remember to look at the actions...not just the words. Your situation just has me a little baffled because of all the future talks before even agreeing on exclusivity.

 

I'm taking it that she hasn't invited you up to her apartment still? Is there a reason for that?

 

Are you still wanting to be exclusive with her at this point?

[Life lessons]

Oh and I'll add.....you probably want to trust your gut feeling on this as well....as far as the okc site.

 

Considering this is a new relationship, it's better to make certain that there's clear understanding of the dating profile Intentions now rather than later. If you're uncomfortable with it or doubting it, it would probably be best to inform her.

[Crosswords]

Hi CW....I see that she decided on exclusiveness. That's good considering that's what you wanted, right!?

 

Are you now doubting her because of the okc profile and logins?

 

It does seem a little off that she wouldn't go dancing with you because of the time and the fact that she had to work the next morning but she logged into the site a few hours after you dropped her off. In order to ease your mind....which I guess all she really has to say is simply "I couldn't sleep"...but see if she proffers another reason. Just non chalantly bring it up that you noticed she had logged in at that time and see what her response is.

 

Or simply overlook this instance and see how future dates pan out. Remember to look at the actions...not just the words. Your situation just has me a little baffled because of all the future talks before even agreeing on exclusivity.

 

I'm taking it that she hasn't invited you up to her apartment still? Is there a reason for that?

 

Are you still wanting to be exclusive with her at this point?

 

It is what I wanted. However it doesn't FEEL like we're exclusive yet. My spidery senses are tingling in some way. Like maybe I'm not what she truly wants even though she's said all these amazing things. Which still makes me wonder why she has said so many wounderful things so soon! I just took it as really high interest.

 

I don't know if I'll bring up the OKC log in times and such. Could seem a little intense. And come across the wrong way...

 

and I'm not truly sure why she hasn't invited me up to her place. Technically it's not even her place. She's couch surfing at the moment, so maybe it would be weird for her to invite anyone up.

 

I do want exclusivity with her. I have huge feelings for her. I'm just not sure what's really going on...

 

I had a shower at 3:00 and then sent her a sexual photo at 3:15 with the message 'I want you so bad right now..'. It's 6:30 now and I still haven't gotten a response :S

[Miss Spider]

People these days draw a distinction between exclusivity and bf/gf. Sounds like she wants neither one and conflated them to get around this. Sneaky. She wants to continue seeing others "platonically". Riiiight. It's always platonically for us ladies until we find someone who lights our fire. Now she has reluctantly agreed to exclusivity, yet she's still partaking in the sausage festival that is okcupid. For "platonic" friends? I'm sorry, but you're a placeholder as someone above said and I wouldn't be surprised if she was still doing stuff with other guys, much less leaves you when her "mr right" comes along.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[Mkn1010]

I read your update and I still think the same thing that I've thought all along, she's all talk: 'future faking' and 'love bombing' you. The words, even agreement to exclusivity (by words), are there and are exaggerated in my opinion. But there are NO ACTIONS to support them.

 

The actions here from your recent date were that she departed early to "go to bed", only to end up browsing the site. The next action is her delaying a response to your text about wanting her. What do these actions say to you?

[divegrl]

Have you still not been inside her place? This is not good. Huge red flag.

 

She could be living with another man.

 

Or this might not be her friends place at all. After you leave, she could be driving back to her real home.... with a husband, kids and a dog. Who knows???

 

How much do you really know about her? Have you seen her Facebook or Instagram accounts? My guess is she is just not into social media, right?

 

I know this is a huge projection on my part. But I'd be careful OP. I'd insist that you see where she is " sleeping " before you care on any further.

 

Good luck my friend.