Meeting Ex soon... how to proceed?

[EmilyJane]

She already has! Last night, sending me a song that she hated when I showed her last year but now she likes... Exchange by Bryson Tiller.

 

When I didn't reply, I received around 30 messages of raging intensity including a last-ditch attempt to meet up with me. Just desperation.

 

Wow.

 

Are you ready to block her phone and on social media?

[ML Hammer95]

Wow.

 

Are you ready to block her phone and on social media?

 

 

Yeah its time. As bad as it sounds, I wasn't too affected by the messages yesterday... I was smiling and shaking my head at it more than anything. Some of the things she said were mad - like I'm so horrible to her, I'm manipulative, don't want to talk to her, saying I'm sulking and throwing my toys out the pram! Sorry she meet me, we got attached, I get off on hurting her etc...

 

Couldn't possibly try and explain her haha so best to block.

[EmilyJane]

Yeah its time. As bad as it sounds, I wasn't too affected by the messages yesterday... I was smiling and shaking my head at it more than anything. Some of the things she said were mad - like I'm so horrible to her, I'm manipulative, don't want to talk to her, saying I'm sulking and throwing my toys out the pram! Sorry she meet me, we got attached, I get off on hurting her etc...

 

Couldn't possibly try and explain her haha so best to block.

 

I literally told my ex that meeting him was the worst thing that ever happened to me. And started to have the same sort of tantrum at him by text. I did it a lot. Mostly when he went on another bender and committed some major foundational boundary violation. He did this thing a lot of making a special date time and I would be so happy and go to meet him. But he would have already got a better offer that involved drinking and just ignore me trying to find out what was happening. I will never forget the humiliating pity from his office security guard who after I had been waiting in the lobby for an hour checked the logs and found he'd left the building three hours earlier.

 

Managed to pull myself up. Different circumstance and due to very different dynamic but I can sympathise with her, she feels abandoned and angry at you for not meeting her needs.

 

But this one, your girl. She's really full in to gaslighting you. I'm a bit shocked. I'm really proud of you for not letting any of it in.

 

I Initiated NC. To stop the emotional reactivity.

Because the rage text is not helpful and I did not want to do it anymore. I still feel so ashamed of it. It's not a nice headspace to be in.

 

Do try and explain to her briefly. Ask her to respect it and repeat your boundary.

 

But don't wait fir a reply before blocking.

Edited April 3, 2017 by EmilyJane

[ML Hammer95]

What is gaslighting exactly?

[ML Hammer95]

Looking at it, I think maybe I've been gaslighting her.

[EmilyJane]

Looking at it, I think maybe I've been gaslighting her.

 

 

Well, I'll bite and take it seriously, why and how do you think you have been gaslighting her?

 

 

There's some info here

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/abuse/612098-gaslighting

[EmilyJane]

Pointing out a partners potential mental illness and encouraging them to seek help is not gaslighting.

 

I would highly doubt that the person I've been conversing with has employed gaslighting - you show self awareness and capacity to admit fault and learn and kindness and no signs of needing to control someone.

 

I mentioned she has potentially been doing it because she throws a lot of accusations at you in an attempt to make you question your sanity and get on the defensive so that she can regain power over you. I would actually suspect that a lot of the things she accuses you of, like being controlling, are actually descriptions of her issues.

 

Remember gaslighting is fundamentally about manipulating someone into questioning reality with intent to gain power and control over them .

 

You are not doing this by placing boundaries of how it is appropriate to treat you. That is healthy and assertive and you are doing really well.

[ML Hammer95]

Over the course of this relationship though I haven't enforced these boundaries consistently. Allowing her to come back etc..

 

She has said she feels stuck before, that's one of the signs. She often calls me a liar and really contradictory - what she doesn't know is that the contradictions come from her behaviour. Like before, wanting to be there for her and then pulling away when it's become too much. She saw that as inconsistenty and dishonesty.

[EmilyJane]

Over the course of this relationship though I haven't enforced these boundaries consistently. Allowing her to come back etc..

 

She has said she feels stuck before, that's one of the signs. She often calls me a liar and really contradictory - what she doesn't know is that the contradictions come from her behaviour. Like before, wanting to be there for her and then pulling away when it's become too much. She saw that as inconsistenty and dishonesty.

 

But you have learnt about the importance of not having fuzzy movable boundaries through the course of making the mistakes. You slipped into being a bit co dependant maybe simply because you were in a complex emotional situation with someone with no boundaries or self awareness who was highly manipulative.

 

Now you know and you are employing them.

 

This is how most of us learn.

 

 

Read that article linked about gaslighting in the first post on the thread titled gaslighting. It may match some of her behaviour. Trust your judgement.

 

How are you doing now? Are you ok?

[ML Hammer95]

But you have learnt about the importance of not having fuzzy movable boundaries through the course of making the mistakes. You slipped into being a bit co dependant maybe simply because you were in a complex emotional situation with someone with no boundaries or self awareness who was highly manipulative.

 

Now you know and you are employing them.

 

This is how most of us learn.

 

 

Read that article linked about gaslighting in the first post on the thread titled gaslighting. It may match some of her behaviour. Trust your judgement.

 

How are you doing now? Are you ok?

 

I do think I was a bit codependent, but I can't lie that all those messages I received the other day have left me shaken. I don't believe me things she said, but its hard not to take them to heart. I am sensitive sometimes and being involved with this girl has heightened that.

 

I think telling her she may have a disorder and needs help was a huge mistake - every time we spoke since she managed to bring it up in almost a mocking tone.

[EmilyJane]

I do think I was a bit codependent, but I can't lie that all those messages I received the other day have left me shaken. I don't believe me things she said, but its hard not to take them to heart. I am sensitive sometimes and being involved with this girl has heightened that.

 

I think telling her she may have a disorder and needs help was a huge mistake - every time we spoke since she managed to bring it up in almost a mocking tone.

 

I think that's how it works with the extremely manipulative unable to take responsibility sort - they wear you down.

 

Anyone would be shaken.

 

Of course she's mocking it. It's how she convinces you all the problems are yours. It probably means you've hit quite close to the bone. That's why she keeps bringing it up every time, it really got to her just unfortunately she's also the type who cannot admit to any fault. So the truer she thinks something might be the more she has to make you seem nuts or stupid for thinking it. She's probably really pissed off you brought it up. It's like the counselling session - she knows you are getting support and info somewhere.

 

And look how many smart kind people on here with no reason to be biased were concerned enough to point out the potential for a disorder.

 

It's definitely not you being stupid or nuts. You told her something that seems pretty obvious.

 

Remember the counsellor confirmed some of her controlling behaviours.

 

Don't let her make you question your truth or your reality.

 

Keep reading stuff on BPD in relationships and stick to blocking her everywhere and I think you will start to feel a lot stronger in yourself fast.

 

I suggest the reading because I think it would be good for you to identify what was her stuff in the memories that go through your mind and I think go back to your counsellor. It will help you process and build your self esteem up and heal faster.

 

And being sensitive is a highly desirable trait in a man so don't even bother feeling crappy for that. It will mean you will be able to form a better relationship when you are ready.

 

You're doing well. You set the boundary and you're sticking to it, it's jusr that this isn't your average break up because of all the control and manipulating, and gaslighting by ridiculing you, putting you down and otherwise causing you to doubt your own reality. People like her leave devastation in their wake beyond just relationship grief. Counselling and talking to trustworthy friends and family and continuing to educate yourself will get you through much cleaner and easier.

Edited April 5, 2017 by EmilyJane

[ML Hammer95]

That's interesting... from what you are saying it's the same reflex that always bought up 'this disorder I have' that kept bought up random girls I was friends with who I supposedly fancy and various other jealous things. Because it has affected her and that was her way of expressing it. Your explanation made quite a lot of sense.

 

It is also interesting that she calls me manipulative and 'gets off on hurting her', when everybody on here thinks the opposite. I did think she was the one being manipulative but increasingly thought that I could potentially being that to her too.

 

She hasn't come back in days and fingers crossed that is it now - I always think I'm in the clear but she always comes back but this time I'm confident. Surely someone who says all these things wouldn't come back again, especially if she doesn't like/love me like the forum members think.

[EmilyJane]

That's interesting... from what you are saying it's the same reflex that always bought up 'this disorder I have' that kept bought up random girls I was friends with who I supposedly fancy and various other jealous things. Because it has affected her and that was her way of expressing it. Your explanation made quite a lot of sense.

 

It is also interesting that she calls me manipulative and 'gets off on hurting her', when everybody on here thinks the opposite. I did think she was the one being manipulative but increasingly thought that I could potentially being that to her too.

 

She hasn't come back in days and fingers crossed that is it now - I always think I'm in the clear but she always comes back but this time I'm confident. Surely someone who says all these things wouldn't come back again, especially if she doesn't like/love me like the forum members think.

 

People usually throw the things at you that would hurt them the most/are the most true for them I've found.

 

And yes those weird jealous accusations do fit the pattern, well spotted.

 

I don't think thst it's that she doesn't love you, I think it's more that what she thinks is love is actually complete external validation and is not about what she cab give you either.

 

Honey, bottom line is the best thing you can do for yourself right now is block her then go back to the counsellor to keep untangling the mess of head**** things she's left.

 

Downtown is very very good at situations with BPD like partners. Look up some of his posts.

[ML Hammer95]

People usually throw the things at you that would hurt them the most/are the most true for them I've found.

 

And yes those weird jealous accusations do fit the pattern, well spotted.

 

I don't think thst it's that she doesn't love you, I think it's more that what she thinks is love is actually complete external validation and is not about what she cab give you either.

 

Honey, bottom line is the best thing you can do for yourself right now is block her then go back to the counsellor to keep untangling the mess of head**** things she's left.

 

Downtown is very very good at situations with BPD like partners. Look up some of his posts.

 

Because of the nature of university counselling, and because I wanted to see the same counsellor to avoid explaining the situation again, my next appointment isn't for four weeks. When I made the initial appointment, it was a month before I actually saw them and the situation changed again. Like it has this time.

 

Had a slight issue today when talking to a new girl. As a joke she said that if I didn't do something she'd 'go call someone else' which I took the wrong way and said I wouldn't stand for comments like that as it reminded me of my ex. She got a bit awkward after and said she didn't appreciate being compared to her. I was just trying to assert some boundaries and not stand for the same things as before but may have expressed that the wrong way.

[ML Hammer95]

Cried tonight over her. Remembering the good and feeling sorry for myself generally that someone loved me and I acted terribly towards her. Probably a bit lonely too. Think the intensity of feelings were so strong that it will take time to readjust.

 

However I have remained strong and not contacted. Quite proud that I resisted when I have felt weak.

[EmilyJane]

You're grieving. It will happen. The crying.

 

But it will get better. And if you're crying and feeling the grief stuff it means you're grieving properly and will heal clean.

 

The thing that happened with the new girl - is why I learned to not date before I had healed, you're just not ready or capable of being available and open properly to something new.

 

If it's any consolation, I did break NC and it was the worst idea ever. Now I'm stuck in stuff a bit. Because he's completely mentally unravelled so I've pushed him on to his support network not me and waiting for an opportunity to ghost without telling him this time.

[ML Hammer95]

You're grieving. It will happen. The crying.

 

But it will get better. And if you're crying and feeling the grief stuff it means you're grieving properly and will heal clean.

 

The thing that happened with the new girl - is why I learned to not date before I had healed, you're just not ready or capable of being available and open properly to something new.

 

If it's any consolation, I did break NC and it was the worst idea ever. Now I'm stuck in stuff a bit. Because he's completely mentally unravelled so I've pushed him on to his support network not me and waiting for an opportunity to ghost without telling him this time.

 

I am certainly feeling the grief to be honest... it didn't help that yesterday I was clearing an old iPod ready to sell and there were screenshotted messages from Snapchat from her on there. Looking at them more subjectively than I did at the time it is clear to see she was insecure about me and cared very much and did actually love me. Even recently she was recommending songs and films to me that were romantic and about lost love. It doesn't bring her back but it's almost nice to realise that she did genuinely care deeply and love me in her own way.

 

What caused you to break No Contact? The thing that stops me is that it wouldn't be fair on either of us and however bad I feel, contact will only make me feel worse in the long-term especially as it would likely result in an intense argument.

[EmilyJane]

I am certainly feeling the grief to be honest... it didn't help that yesterday I was clearing an old iPod ready to sell and there were screenshotted messages from Snapchat from her on there. Looking at them more subjectively than I did at the time it is clear to see she was insecure about me and cared very much and did actually love me. Even recently she was recommending songs and films to me that were romantic and about lost love. It doesn't bring her back but it's almost nice to realise that she did genuinely care deeply and love me in her own way.

 

What caused you to break No Contact? The thing that stops me is that it wouldn't be fair on either of us and however bad I feel, contact will only make me feel worse in the long-term especially as it would likely result in an intense argument.

 

Oh it's on a couple of posts in coping a week back and on save your hearts thread in addiction. Events...have occurred...it feels like a telenovela

 

Here on page 469-70, airborne really came through there.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/coping/615186-how-you-coping-today-469.html

 

Here pg 2-3

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/addiction-recovery/608213-married-alcoholic-2.html

 

And thank god he pulled the prize piece of @ssholery described here because I was all.. well he is doing what I said he had to to reconcile, not drinking and getting help and he seems really broken by losing me maybe I should let him in a bit more again.... eeeeh wrong!

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/620767-i-love-you-but-i-m-not-love-you

 

So thank god he's predictable in doing something bloody horrible every time I even start having any nostalgic missing him maybe we will be together feelings about him because now I've got my barriers back up. And am feeling both utterly rejected undesirable and unwanted yet also completely livid with rage. Like seriously, this f***en guy amirite?!?!

 

Of course she cared about you. You can tell from how nuts she gets when you don't do what she wants. I think to her that means you don't love her or are no good or something.

 

I just think her brand of caring has been pretty crappy for you overall.

 

I still don't actually know what happened when you broke up. Like, what happened who left who and why.

 

So I'm trying not to say stuff that would just be random guesses.

 

Isn't this weird? Having conversations about deeply personal stuff with a stranger on a public board. But it's extremely therapeutic for me. Keeps me on the right track.

Edited April 15, 2017 by EmilyJane

[ML Hammer95]

I just think her brand of caring has been pretty crappy for you overall. ... what do you mean by this? More explicitly, because I agree with the general statement but am interested in what exactly you're getting at.

 

 

To be honest, I wouldn't know where to begin with 'how it ended', there were so many times where I thought it was it and we'd walk away from each other but never did. I've touched upon certain events that have happened in other threads. I appreciate your theories though, they usually make so much sense and there's so much material on these threads already that your perceptions are normally correct!

 

Your situation sounds so difficult I must say... but you are totally doing the right thing! Without wanting to guess too much, you can't live your life thinking about what might be too much.

 

You're right about talking online though... in a way it is easier! People don't mind you talking about your ex whereas your friends and family might tire much quicker.

[EmilyJane]

Hmm that's a good question. I wonder what exactly i am getting at, I say stuff off sheer instinct mostly.

 

I guess I mean that the on again off again push pull, the extreme manipulation, gaslighting, control and constant blaming you for her stuff I get the impression has shaken your trust in your own instincts, in your belief of what is right and wrong and has left you with a lot of internal conflict. Among other things obviously.

 

And it makes me angry. You are clearly a kind, intelligent thoughtful self aware person and I can see the glimpses of the strong character that defined you prior to this but that persons "voice" is a little shaken.

 

It makes me see that it is harder to heal from this BPD like woman's ministrations than from non BPD like people because the same techniques she used to undermine you and confuse you to control you are the ones that mean you have so much more self doubt than before and are trying to find out all over again where appropriate boundaries are because she had like none and now you're vigilant about it.

 

I am angry that someone exploited another's healthy humility for their own ends and left that person shaken and not as strong in themselves and without their previous trust in their own instincts, impulses, ability to set boundaries, trust in others. Everything.

 

It is going to be really challenging to heal clean from this in a way that means you can form happy relationships without carrying through the damage she did.

 

And that sucks.

 

Does that make sense? It's often really hard for me to put my mostly felt impressions into words and go back and work out what has made me draw conclusions.

 

I'm totality not infallible. I literally just pick up unconciously on clues and patterns and link them to previous experiences or situations or knowledge. It's not a concious step by step process. To me these impressions just appear fully formed in my brain and most of the time people think they are reasonably accurate. I can't actually claim any credit or have much reason to believe people should trust them, I just do. Have trust in my instincts and judgements and the longer I've trusted them the better they are.

Edited April 15, 2017 by EmilyJane

[Jason Van Jason]

Even if you are going to be together, it sounds like you two need some significant time apart. If your both serious about it, time will be just another obstacle and if it is the end, then, you know what the deal was.

[ML Hammer95]

Hmm that's a good question. I wonder what exactly i am getting at, I say stuff off sheer instinct mostly.

 

I guess I mean that the on again off again push pull, the extreme manipulation, gaslighting, control and constant blaming you for her stuff I get the impression has shaken your trust in your own instincts, in your belief of what is right and wrong and has left you with a lot of internal conflict. Among other things obviously.

 

And it makes me angry. You are clearly a kind, intelligent thoughtful self aware person and I can see the glimpses of the strong character that defined you prior to this but that persons "voice" is a little shaken.

 

It makes me see that it is harder to heal from this BPD like woman's ministrations than from non BPD like people because the same techniques she used to undermine you and confuse you to control you are the ones that mean you have so much more self doubt than before and are trying to find out all over again where appropriate boundaries are because she had like none and now you're vigilant about it.

 

I am angry that someone exploited another's healthy humility for their own ends and left that person shaken and not as strong in themselves and without their previous trust in their own instincts, impulses, ability to set boundaries, trust in others. Everything.

 

It is going to be really challenging to heal clean from this in a way that means you can form happy relationships without carrying through the damage she did.

 

And that sucks.

 

Does that make sense? It's often really hard for me to put my mostly felt impressions into words and go back and work out what has made me draw conclusions.

 

I'm totality not infallible. I literally just pick up unconciously on clues and patterns and link them to previous experiences or situations or knowledge. It's not a concious step by step process. To me these impressions just appear fully formed in my brain and most of the time people think they are reasonably accurate. I can't actually claim any credit or have much reason to believe people should trust them, I just do. Have trust in my instincts and judgements and the longer I've trusted them the better they are.

 

 

Wow, this post is powerful. Been reading it and wanting to give it a reply that serves it justice.

 

I can't deny that this experience has changed my outlook on things - I think I have become more cynical about interactions with other people and if I'm honest less trusting and willing to wear my heart on my sleeve like before. Some of her actions led me to be quite secretive. And I think the behaviour I exhibited is something I look back on and it doesn't make... like myself?

 

You are clearly a kind, intelligent thoughtful self aware person and I can see the glimpses of the strong character that defined you prior to this but that persons "voice" is a little shaken. - if somebody on an online forum can see this, then hopefully other people in my life can. You were right to say that and it is something I KNOW and BELIEVE is true but don't always remember or put into action. Ironically, this girl noticed these things too. I remember a tender moment we once shared where she said 'I love the [my name] who is kind and gentle and makes me laugh'. Before I didn't quite realise girls particularly like gentle guys but it gave me confidence to be myself.

 

I think you are also correct in saying it will take time to rebuild boundaries and not project what has happened onto other girls (may have already been guilty of that). The intensity is something I've particularly noticed that I've missed. It's hard to describe, but during intense arguments about how we felt it made me feel alive. If she does in fact have strong BPD symptoms then she will no doubt have feelings this strong for plenty of other guys. I do remember her saying once that there 'was nobody ever been in her life like me' and 'only you can make me feel like this'. I don't think I believe that, and it is irrelevant going forward anyway, but it all fits with having never felt something so intense before.

 

Thank you again, that post was amazing!

[ML Hammer95]

Even if you are going to be together, it sounds like you two need some significant time apart. If your both serious about it, time will be just another obstacle and if it is the end, then, you know what the deal was.

 

Every single time before one of us has gone back to the other one, under the pretence of a 'catch up'. I don't think in this case that she ever just wants a 'catch up.

 

But I'm just going to focus on improving myself right now. I genuinely can't see her coming back and I don't particularly want her too.

[Goodguy05]

But you have learnt about the importance of not having fuzzy movable boundaries through the course of making the mistakes. You slipped into being a bit co dependant maybe simply because you were in a complex emotional situation with someone with no boundaries or self awareness who was highly manipulative.

 

Now you know and you are employing them.

 

This is how most of us learn.

 

 

Read that article linked about gaslighting in the first post on the thread titled gaslighting. It may match some of her behaviour. Trust your judgement.

 

How are you doing now? Are you ok?

 

Wow i had an epiphany reading this. This sounds like my ex I elvish I'd known about this yrs ago. Wen wed break up I'd strategy to move on and she's send a barago of texts accusing me of being this that and all lies and I'd eventually cave in and take her back this went on for yrs she'd make me feel guilty but only because she was in a bad place until eventually one day she was in a better place and lined up her ducks and dumped me lol long story she was very manipulative. She left her kids interstate moved to where I am in the same Co after chasing me saying hwo wed work out lol soulmate and all bull**** to gain control then wen everything better for her she walked and finds someone new in the same Co. She was really bad news I wish I'd seen it for what it was manipulation and control...her true colours showed in the end but it wss to late for me at my expense

[Goodguy05]

Man i wish id discovered this website yrs ago.